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Please don't force us to be victims of PvPers!

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Comments


  • 5. This is probably the biggest reason it should keep it's pvp to create a different experience and appeal to a different audience then what's popular. Instead of trying to mimic the popular games on the market and fighting for their playerbase, it should create it's own gameplay experience and attract players to it for different reasons.


    Totally agree with this, and I'm not a big PvP fan; but the idea of caravans and sieges has me excited to try.  I also think the corruption system is a sound idea so far.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    @Stabby The root of every problem in nearly every bad MMORPG ... are the Devs.

    BDO & Archeage are still Asian-MMO garbage tbh. I'm mean sure ... there was some fun times ... but its the Devs that added P2W mechanics - BDO being scummy by forcing players to buy Cosmetics from the Cash Shop because Armor earned in-game purposely looks fugly . not to mention BDO's got hackers. Archeage practically not being any different tbh. FFXIV is the only one that's worth it ... 

    And i gotta be honest with you ... the Final Fantasy Franchise doesn't feel right being an MMORPG ... or at least that's how i saw it when it first released. 

    Which is ultimately the reason why i didn't play it.

    But the Final Fantasy Franchise certainly should not be a f!cking Mobile Game either ... https://youtu.be/gyXRi6f7xic?t=5m35s


  • Stabby said:
    EDIT - June 4th 2017

    EDIT - August 8th 2018

    Short version on this thread. PvPers want the game to remain as-is. The PvE crowd has asked for PvE servers. Each crowd has offered feedback on alternatives or opposed the others view. Lots of toxicity. A push and pull with very little compromise.

    That should save you a lot of reading.
    there wont be a pve server. 
  • Not true.
    Some PvE's want PvE only servers.
    Some PvP's want no corruption.

    Most people want Ashes to be it's best and are willing to give it a try.

    Just to clarify the summation.
  • Way back when, I came close to pledging in the Kickstarter, then later considered pledging through the website. I eventually decided against it, because, although the PVE content looked fantastic, I absolutely hated the way that PVP was being implemented. I was a little heart-broken, but walked away. Every once in a while, I come back to see what is going on, and I was astonished to see this thread still up and running.

    So what I'd like to say is this: I learned a long time ago not to try to talk devs into a different game than they were making. The devs always have a vision and no one is going to talk them out of it. If you are a PVE'er and don't want to be attacked and distracted from your PVE goals, then this game is probably not for you. I really urge the PVE'ers in this thread to simply look around. There are finally a few good PVE options being developed. Anthem is coming out. Diablo apparently has multiple projects. And if you want an MMO, I suggest you look at Fractured: the MMO, which will have 3 worlds/3 rulesets, including PVE.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is: Don't break your head and your heart trying to make this game something other than what it is. There are starting to be actual choices in PVE beyond the latest clone of something else. If you enjoy PVP and don't mind being attacked while doing PVE, then this game is probably great for you. If you want to PVE in peace, then this game is probably a poor match for you. Don't force yourself to try and like it if you really hate the experience.
  • I would be disappointed if this game became such a PvP focused game that every time I tried to PvE I was disrupted. I don't see that happening for a variety of reasons, one being plain hopeful.

    I understand encouraging PvE players that hate PvP to look around.
    I encourage PvP players that want to PvP against anyone in the world 24/7 to do the same.

    In the end I think $15 for an entire month to figure out if it is worth another $15 is totally worth it. Everyone should at least try it, even if it is new, even if they think it's the same-old-clone.

    *Note, $15 is still the anticipated cost not the official cost to my knowledge.
  • Azathoth said:

    *Note, $15 is still the anticipated cost not the official cost to my knowledge.
    Steven came out in one of the interviews recently and confirmed the $15 price tag per month. So "nothing is confirmed until Steven confirmed!" is now confirmed.
  • Stabby said:
    2. Every game to integrate both PvP and PvE, with too much emphasis on PvP, has failed. Black Desert, Archeage, etc. have unbalanced economies, no grouping, sucky guild systems and a gear gap the size of K2.

    You highlighted some of the reasons that Archeage and BDO faltered. You can find dozens of videos on Youtube detailing the fatal flaws that led to the decline of these two games. The leading issues are P2W, astronomical gear gap, game-breaking RNG, and lack of content (for BDO in particular).

    Stabby said:
    3. MMO's that focused more PvE than PvP are still thriving and are the most successful games in history. There is a massive void in the industry here. Most gaming companies shifted to "sandbox" business models and forced nonconsensual combat on those gamers from those old games. That's WHY they're still playing those old games! Many don't want to PvP, ever!

    PvP is not much different from normal combat in MMOs:  you fight and run the risk of death.

    The key difference is that human players tend to be less predictable and more skilled than the AI, and therefore make for more interesting combat.

    Perhaps you are in the camp of players that never takes risks in combat, and are therefore not accustomed to seeing the "you died" screen? If so, then this game might be a little more intense than you would prefer.

    I certainly understand your desire to not be ganked by overpowered players on a regular basis. But if the corruption system works as advertised, there should be nothing but strong disincentives for ganking under-powered players.

    The larger the power gap between the ganker and gankee, the greater the corruption inflicted on the ganker. Given that I hate ganking (and have never ganked anyone in an MMO), I am quite pleased with the proposed system.

    I am also confused as to why you are not pleased with it as well.
  • great more new carebears coming in and trying to push their faulty agenda which tries to segregate more player base which has never worked and never will work.

    Then you have the same people wondering why the MMO they are playing is dead and empty constantly jumping from 1 mmo tailcoat to the next while pushing the same agenda that only hurts the game and its players.


  • I think I would ask the players to give the system a go.  I personally will take the hit in learning pvp and sufferring the ganks for fresh gameplay and player agency.
  • Im not really good at PvP, I pretty much suck and die very often. I do not understand why PvErs would come to this game and pretend a PvE only server when the whole game is based around PvP.
    Why would you want to play such a static game where as a player you have no agenda? So what, a Metropolis is created, cool, how do you destroy it? Guess you go raiding to beat a boss?

    Its akin to wanting League of Legends without it being multiplayer, I just dont get it.
    If you dont want to get ganked and kill, then either dont go out of the city or go with friends.

    Exploring always had its dangers.
  • @Zorish
    Whole game is not based around PvP. Most would claim the game is more PvE.

    Hopefully the sever doesn't go static, that would be a failure of the game and the community.

    As a PvE player you help take down other nodes by preparing yours for a raid, either by gearing your citizens or producing the resources necessary to fund the raid.

    It is unlikely players will be ganked and killed just leaving the city. Corruption should be a deterrent to most, and the ones it's not a deterrent to will have plenty of Bounty Hunters and other PvP oriented players to contend with.

    It looks like you joined the forums way back, have you been kept up to date on the dev vids and such? You seem out of the loop a bit.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    The great thing about this games concept is that it is NON static


    That is the most fantastic thing in decades for MMO's

    The pvp open world has measures in place to prevent griefing. Corruption itself and the chance to lose your gear are negative enough in itself.

    It has large cooldown periods for people who are just killing, meaning they cannot just kill and profit, they will have to log out and leave the game be for hours or longer at a time. Not worth it for trigger happy pvp fools

    The game is going to be a dynamic world, shaped by the players who band up. Not some static display area like ESO or WoW.

    The pve will still be there and engaging, and oftentimes initiated by pvpers for PvE players by difference in leveling of the Nodes.

    At its heart, the game will literally BE engaging and that is the attraction here 

  • Zorish said:

    If you dont want to get ganked and kill, then either dont go out of the city or go with friends.

    No doubt there will be relatively safe places in the wilderness for PvE players. Still, group expeditions may end up being the wisest way to accomplish PvE in the wilder areas. This game is likely to have more cohesive and cooperative guilds as a necessity.

    If your guild doesn't provide security for its PvE players, you may want to go find a better guild.

    ...like mine. :D
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    Hello, I'm new here. My first post.

    Ever since Ultima Online and Everquest (Zek servers) I've been searching for a new 'home' MMO. Mortal Online scratched my itch for a while, and ArcheAge was a lot of fun but they lack Oceanic servers and the obvious Pay2Win problems that come with eastern MMOs.

    This MMO in development, AoC, drew me in because it seemed to promise a 'real' MMO like in the old days, with both PvE and PvP. PvP seems to be a central focus with nodes and caravans, and there is a very nasty corruption system in to protect innocents, which sounds pretty cool!

    I came here specifically for the PvP because it seemed to be a big part of the game. Am I wrong? How much weight do these "PvP is griefing" crowd have here? They seem to have saturated every other MMO and ruined it (for me).

    I'm trying to escape the carebears but I don't know if I can. Is this place safe for me? Can I l live here or should I keep looking? How carebear is this game? I don't want to feel safe. Worlds aren't safe and I want to feel like I'm in a fantasy world again. It's been so long.

    This honestly seems like my only hope (besides StarCitizen) as I recently watched a dev q&a where they said that there would be oceanic servers for us aussies! That's huge for us! I can genuinely bring like 10+ bros, and that's just me.. They 100% have a bunch of friends that are just as starved for a good PvP MMO as I am. We need this. No one caters to us!
  • Hazard_89 said:
    Hello, I'm new here. My first post.

    Ever since Ultima Online and Everquest (Zek servers) I've been searching for a new 'home' MMO. Mortal Online scratched my itch for a while, and ArcheAge was a lot of fun but they lack Oceanic servers and the obvious Pay2Win problems that come with eastern MMOs.

    This MMO in development, AoC, drew me in because it seemed to promise a 'real' MMO like in the old days, with both PvE and PvP. PvP seems to be a central focus with nodes and caravans, and there is a very nasty corruption system in to protect innocents, which sounds pretty cool!

    I came here specifically for the PvP because it seemed to be a big part of the game. Am I wrong? How much weight do these "PvP is griefing" crowd have here? They seem to have saturated every other MMO and ruined it (for me).

    I'm trying to escape the carebears but I don't know if I can. Is this place safe for me? Can I l live here or should I keep looking? How carebear is this game? I don't want to feel safe. Worlds aren't safe and I want to feel like I'm in a fantasy world again. It's been so long.

    This honestly seems like my only hope (besides StarCitizen) as I recently watched a dev q&a where they said that there would be oceanic servers for us aussies! That's huge for us! I can genuinely bring like 10+ bros, and that's just me.. They 100% have a bunch of friends that are just as starved for a good PvP MMO as I am. We need this. No one caters to us!
    You will be fine

    Most of Ashes is actually in for this Open world interactive environment


    This is an old post section that was created before full understanding of the Node system, corruption, and bounty systems were released

    If you are corrupted for killing players who havent "flagged" themselves for pvp, you reciece corruption which reduces all your pvp stats, initiates a bounty that pays the bounty hunter, and flags your location to the entire server 

    Everone else who "flags" themselves and lets say you attack that person, you will not recieve any penalties

    This way everyone who wants to pvp, will be good and any ass who justs wants to kill people doing their thing will be quickly targeted and eliminated
  • Hazard_89 said:
    Hello, I'm new here. My first post.

    Ever since Ultima Online and Everquest (Zek servers) I've been searching for a new 'home' MMO. Mortal Online scratched my itch for a while, and ArcheAge was a lot of fun but they lack Oceanic servers and the obvious Pay2Win problems that come with eastern MMOs.

    This MMO in development, AoC, drew me in because it seemed to promise a 'real' MMO like in the old days, with both PvE and PvP. PvP seems to be a central focus with nodes and caravans, and there is a very nasty corruption system in to protect innocents, which sounds pretty cool!

    I came here specifically for the PvP because it seemed to be a big part of the game. Am I wrong? How much weight do these "PvP is griefing" crowd have here? They seem to have saturated every other MMO and ruined it (for me).

    I'm trying to escape the carebears but I don't know if I can. Is this place safe for me? Can I l live here or should I keep looking? How carebear is this game? I don't want to feel safe. Worlds aren't safe and I want to feel like I'm in a fantasy world again. It's been so long.

    This honestly seems like my only hope (besides StarCitizen) as I recently watched a dev q&a where they said that there would be oceanic servers for us aussies! That's huge for us! I can genuinely bring like 10+ bros, and that's just me.. They 100% have a bunch of friends that are just as starved for a good PvP MMO as I am. We need this. No one caters to us!
    You will be fine

    Most of Ashes is actually in for this Open world interactive environment


    This is an old post section that was created before full understanding of the Node system, corruption, and bounty systems were released

    If you are corrupted for killing players who havent "flagged" themselves for pvp, you reciece corruption which reduces all your pvp stats, initiates a bounty that pays the bounty hunter, and flags your location to the entire server 

    Everone else who "flags" themselves and lets say you attack that person, you will not recieve any penalties

    This way everyone who wants to pvp, will be good and any ass who justs wants to kill people doing their thing will be quickly targeted and eliminated
    Sounds good to me! 

    Thanks.
  • ...

    It has large cooldown periods for people who are just killing, meaning they cannot just kill and profit, they will have to log out and leave the game be for hours or longer at a time. Not worth it for trigger happy pvp fools
    ...
    I don't think this is true. There is no "cool down" for corruption, you have to die or go on quest. Death has to (as of now) be PvP.
  • Azathoth said:
    ...

    It has large cooldown periods for people who are just killing, meaning they cannot just kill and profit, they will have to log out and leave the game be for hours or longer at a time. Not worth it for trigger happy pvp fools
    ...
    I don't think this is true. There is no "cool down" for corruption, you have to die or go on quest. Death has to (as of now) be PvP.
    This is quite possible. 

    It has been awhile since I read through the PvP aspect portion of corruption

    I could have sworn there was a cooldown or way to remove corruption.

    Either way the Player killer could theoretically just log out 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • Starting next month, and stated timelines so far, for the next 7 months, those with access get pvp all the time anyways. So watch a stream, figure out if Ashes is going to be right for you, and if not, find a game that is.
    The PvP in Alpha 1 won't give any indication about whether PvEers will enjoy Ashes.
    We have to wait until the Corruption system is in play with enough players to get a feel for how much of a deterrent it might truly be.
    And, of course, the people who determine that the Corruption system is not a sufficient deterrent will very likely not play Ashes, if a better alternative is not implemented.
  • @Nelson_Rebel
    It might be possible, but your mention of it is the only time I have heard of it.
    As of now corruption is removed through death and potential questing.
    If you can find a source that says otherwise, please post link here.

    @UnknownSystemError is usually the go to guy for this type of thing :wink:
    May he bless us with his inherent  knowledge of Ashes.

  • @Azathoth @Nelson_Rebel @Dygz Sorry, went to bed after staying up all night for the My.com discussions and debacle. So I'll start with the corruption first. As they have stated so far, the only ways to remove corruption is through death to another player in a pvp action, or through a lengthy quest series coming out of the religious nodes. There is no way for corruption to "tick down" or be waited out.

    For Dygz, my comment was more of a clapback at the people who were talking shit about the price difference increase from the A1 to A2 packages. 7 months (variable upon need) of A1 testing vs what looks to be much shorter periods for the other phases seems like good value if someone was to look at testing access as all you got for that $250 jump. We won't see corruption until A1P2. I asked if we would see corruption in A1P1 and the answer from the Sandal God was no. As you said, PVE focused players won't be able to really decide if Ashes is for them until much later in the process. Just woke up, so if I am confused on what I was meant to respond to, I will take another stab at it later.
  • pve crybabies smh
  • There are pvp crybabies as well.
    Which is to be expected when opposing playstyles are forced to play on the same server.
  • the best way to deal with crybabies is to make them undead 


  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Dygz said:
    There are pvp crybabies as well.
    Which is to be expected when opposing playstyles are forced to play on the same server.
    This is a fair point.


    But I think this inherent conflict between opposing playstyles will be the driving force behind In game politics and the "adrenaline" gamers often get in any game conflict. 

    It really is amazing when you take an objective step back, and look at how all these systems are connected and how they are all designed to connect one another, even if its connected in an non-apparent way because player interest is what determines it all.

    By the By, I've rarely encountered PvE playes who didnt use their pve gifts to excell in pvp with the gear combinations. You need both to be effective IMO. And not having them seperate (In AoC's iteration) is the best designed way I've seen in a mmo. It stops stagnation and boredom just from the inherent nature of the game.

    But thats just my 2 cents and speculation. Either way I'm going to enjoy both 😁
  • I think the point is that players who don't want the mix offered here.... Don't play this game it is not for you.   I prefer PVE and defo don't want to be smacked about by some buffoon with an axe when i'm out crafting etc but I want to play this game so I will just have to accept it is going to happen and when it does jump on my Bounty hunter grab a posse if I think the player is better than me on my combat toon and then wreak revenge Muhwaaaa ha ha.
  • @ Stabby
    Have you ever played an MMO without PVP that had a good healthy in game economy.
    I'm way late to this but this comment made me seriously laugh.   Seriously, someone has been hiding under a rock.   How about WoW.  Everquest.  GW2.  Etc etc.   All of those games have no PvP if you don't want it and they have highly active economies.   
    People need to admit that non-consentual PvP games have LESS overall appeal than otherwise.  Just because you are loud with your opinions (as the PvP ganker crowd is) doesn't make you right.

    I'm sure that if AoC doesn't address this and provide a better mechanism than "you can get back at them using PvP..." then it's going to alienate a significant portion of it's potential audience.

    That said a lot of companies rely on PvP to mask their lack of real game content.... since PvP is the poor man's way to keep players engaged in a game without having to put in a lot of content work.
  • Santiago said:
    @ Stabby
    Have you ever played an MMO without PVP that had a good healthy in game economy.
    I'm way late to this but this comment made me seriously laugh.   Seriously, someone has been hiding under a rock.   How about WoW.  Everquest.  GW2.  Etc etc.   All of those games have no PvP if you don't want it and they have highly active economies.   
    People need to admit that non-consentual PvP games have LESS overall appeal than otherwise.  Just because you are loud with your opinions (as the PvP ganker crowd is) doesn't make you right.

    I'm sure that if AoC doesn't address this and provide a better mechanism than "you can get back at them using PvP..." then it's going to alienate a significant portion of it's potential audience.

    That said a lot of companies rely on PvP to mask their lack of real game content.... since PvP is the poor man's way to keep players engaged in a game without having to put in a lot of content work.
    World of Warcraft has a history of runaway gold inflation.

    Everquest now has an ongoing issue with krono introducing all kinds of weird effects into the ingame economy.

    Guild Wars 2 is experiencing deflation, which economists tend to consider even more harmful than excessive inflation. An economist's take here.

    The creative director of this game has implicitly laid out his intent to model Ashes as a fantasy-based EVE Online, where players create wealth via PVE, and said wealth is consumed or destroyed via PVE. World of Warcraft and Everquest implemented tokens which could be used for subscription time via ingame currency to invent a gold sink for players to consume their wealth, but more problems arrived because that sub time became tied to real monetary value.

    Guild Wars 2 might arguably be experiencing its own set of issues because of the crappy way the auction house work (or described as "'reverse discriminatory price auction" by the author of the thread I linked), and possibly due to a question of Anet who wanted to reduce gold supply via adventuring for some arcane reason.

    Thus far, EVE has been the only MMO in the market with a viable playerbase which has a healthily functioning economy without needing much intervention from the developers. Your raised examples do not pass muster.
  • I truly do not understand why people are making such a big deal with the PVP mechanic in AoC ?

    This PVP mechanic has been VERY clearly stated since the inception of AoC. The whole game is built on the PVP mechanic. Without the open world PVP mechanic there is no AoC. How is this difficult to understand?

    Open world PVP is the foundation on which the game stands.

    There are countless MMO's out there with PVE gameplay, why are you guys not playing those? Why are you coming to this game and then soap-boxing about the reasons for why Intrepid should change the fundamental principles on which AoC was designed?

    Yes, we get it. You don't like non-consensual PVP.  But there are so many PVE MMO games out there, why come to this game and try to convince the devs and players to convert this game to a style that you prefer?

    Yes, one can argue that they can cater for both styles by making PVE only servers. But this approach is not viable because of the said PVP mechanic on which AoC game has been designed. Risk vs Reward, and all that jazz. It will also dilute and split the player base.

    What I also don't get is that in a  market where everyone is whining about the same old MMOs being churned out, you are effectively still arguing for the same old.


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