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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Not even all carebears will agree about everything, though.
One such story is when she started endgame raiding to round out her new character. She was fairly geared for a new max level character and her previous raid experience meant she knew all of the mechanics and was almost always one of the last to die whenever there were wipes. She avoided damage, CC'd mobs, focussed the adds, etc etc. She did everything by the book. But since this was a fairly new toon and she didn't have max level gear yet like everyone else, her DPS was on the low side.
The level of abuse she received from other raid members was astounding! They seemed to be were basing their vitriol on her DPS and had no clue as to how flawlessly she executed the encounter. The hypocrisy when she was removed from pugs after wasted hours, by the very meter padding whores that were causing the wipes in the first place was beyond belief!
This happened over and over until she finally eked together enough ilevel to do a little more DPS; and then of course the toxicity would be directed at the new lowest DPS. Anger, frustration, stupidity and profound ignorance, all fuelled by a few numbers on the screen.
How did all this affect her? I'll just say, she's looking forward to AoC as much as I am!
So much salt in this post. We're in dev stage, it's an open poll with an optional suggestion. Seriously mate, rather than saying "if you don't like it leave", how about you be open to suggestions, and if you don't like the fact that this is the avenue for people to suggest things, and you don't have anything constructive to say, then perhaps its best to say nothing.
Happy to have you and your wife with us!
Personally, the term "carebear" carries a negative connotation that denotes "softness". I disagree with that inference. There are plenty of players who, while not categorized as "hard core elites", still like to compete at a high level, just in a different way from what has seemingly become the norm. Just my personal perspective.
We were kinda hardcore carebears.
I categorize elitists as people who demand others play a specific way, with specific gear and specs and skills/abilities. Especially people who kick those who don't comply.
There's going to be some tension among opposing playstyles.
But, it's kind of a pick your battles - do't make mountains out of mole hills thing.
No heat in this thread...yet.
^^Read NOPE^^
"In WoW, we had the carebear challenge - level to max with no kills.
We were kinda hardcore carebears."
I'd love to see that! I played DFUW hardcore(about 6hrs/day) for 2 months as a gatherer before I'd killed my first mob. You can lvl up doing that in DFUW despite it being a serious PVP game.
I think a lot of people forget that they're playing a game. It's an escape and a way to have fun with friends. Cooperation should not breed frustration or aggravation. (I really wanted to add more "tions" to that sentence, but I resisted!!)
I think maybe I avoided it because I played healer and tank more often than not, as those roles were always lacking. I basically only shift to DPS when I REALLY just wanna shoot stuff or if the group is trying out a new tank/healer. That might also be why groups tended to be nicer when I was with them. Maybe they knew I'd walk and they didn't wanna lose their tank...I dunno. Either way, I'm thankful I hadn't really experienced it. Your wife is either stronger or more persistent than I am (both?). I don't think I would have stuck with that group when they started spouting fire and brimstone.
I look forward to playing with you both (in a few years)!! ^.^
Win/Win for the positive aspects of both sides of the discussion.
The absence of a meter would have simply shifted the focus onto a different reason, wouldn't it?
Can we stop blaming a heal - dps meter for every human pest and downfall to actually look at where it would be useful and where it isn't, to reach an actuall conclusion?
Human waste will always be present and should simply be avoided, just because a dps-meter seems to give an easy target, doesn't mean it also removes the cause for the toxicity or do you disagree?
Because right now it's pretty even with over 110 votes, but all I saw ( i skipped a bit) against dps meters are toxicity involved like Lexmax example, but you honestly believe those kind of people just.. turn good without those meters?
<puts up a low makeshift table and sets it with different styled cups to fill them with colourful teas>
^^^Read NOPE^^^
I feel that it is kind of like PVP in that if you are going to have random PVP possible in your game, you can't make enough or any mechanics to cover ALL of the bad parts to it. You just put as many steps or obstacles as you can in front of the bad parts of it.
If you don't want elitist style harassment, exclusionary practices, or the bad stuff you put as many obstacles in front of it as you can. NOT having these party DPS/Heals meters would be another obstacle.
Even so, I have to admit, @Grisu that you make a good point. Assh*les will just find different ways to be what they are.
Ashes of Creation won't really need that.
^^Read NOPE^^
"Can we stop blaming a heal - dps meter for every human pest and downfall to actually look at where it would be useful and where it isn't, to reach an actuall conclusion?"
This seems like one of those things that is just plain to wide a divide in feelings/opinions. Not surprising that whatever seems to generate the most negative emotional responses is always the thing that divides an audience irrevocably.
I don't think anyone is saying that dps/hps meters are the sole harbingers of toxic behavior in mmo's. But, what I believe is that they make convenient tools for those people looking to justify to others, why the way they play is the "right" way, and others should model themselves in a similar image, and conform to certain playstyle's deemed the most "efficient". Which, invariably, leads to the propagation of min/maxing, cookie cutting, and the like, over people just choosing their own way to create their character. Not to say that the exclusion of meters would make all the previous nonexistent, but meters do add fuel to the fire, imo.
Just take a look at this thread as an example. I'm not trying to imply that the posters who are in favor of meters are toxic players, no. But, meters are used on such a regular basis in other games, that when a new game (Ashes of Creation) comes out, while trying to do something different, one of the first things asked is, "Will there be meters?".
Players, imo, have become so over reliant on meters to dictate how they should play the game, that they miss out on really playing the game. Instead, it's more about number crunching, to boost the numbers...then crunch those numbers, to try and improve again, rinse, repeat. It's a never-ending cycle.
I'm all for striving for improve, but there should be a balance. I know that my perspective is different from others, and I'm not trying to sway anyone to "my side". Just sharing my thoughts on this issue.
Group dps monitors are kinda elitist but I like them occasionally.
If there is an option to turn it on and off, then I am totally for it. Those who want it, have it, those who prefer great people to hang out with, but not exactly the top in their class, can ignore this mechanic. This is the win-win situation.
I love it!
The guild dojo would be a great setting where experienced veterans can mentor the lower ranks of every role.
Meters might be part of the UI - gauges running in real-time.
The devs have mentioned that there will be leaderboards in dungeons, so we know there will be metrics.
Seems like a valid question to ask how we might feel about that.
In my opinion, the screen should mostly be the 3D world, where the important things are what's in the world and how you interact with them. But hey, everyone's different. Some may prefer to have everything broken down into numbers and graphs etc, which could be provided in minute detail via non-realtime log parsing.
Carebear is pacifism - not wanting to kill.
Even when I played Warcraft 2, I as appalled when my friends would encourage me to step on snakes and bunnies. Why would I want to do that? They aren't bothering me. "Because it's fun!" they would tell me.
My PvP is more Catwoman style than Joker style. I'm going to use stealth and agility and speed and flirtation/charisma to get what I want and avoid combat where possible.
Which is why I'm glad Ashes brings Social and non-combat utilities back into the RPG of the acronym MMORPG.
My Bartle score is Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
I was a bit surprised by the Killer 0% because I will kill mobs to level. And I can enjoy PvP combat for a while - when I'm playing the hero defending a city.
But, when I'm in a dungeon, I'm mostly there to stealth and explore, maybe steal some treasure or documents. I don't really care that much about killing the stuff there. In fact, in static worlds, I'd probably prefer to leave them be.
If I do have to kill a boss to complete a quest, I'll do it. Often I will do that solo or duo.
In NWO, I soloed endgame dungeons that my twitch-mates had grouped.
I wiped tons of times and it was a huge challenge to devise solo strategies to deal with a boss tactics designed for a group that includes the Trinity...took me forever.
But, it was still fun.
I just have a casual approach to it all, rather than trying to do everything the most efficiently as fast as possible with no wiping. Because the Acheiver/Killer isn't what's motivating my gameplay.
Exploring and Socializing and staying in character are the most important aspects of my playstyle.
I do think it's really odd when people like you and Steven focus on PvE as if it's only crafting and gathering. There are PvE adventurers and casual PvPers.
Which, again is my primary concern with the Ashes game design.
It seems to be focused on "crafters" and hardcore PvPers.
I don't really hear much about carebear PvE adventurers and casual PvPers, who for the most part don't want to be involved in direct PvP combat.
It's like vegetarians who don't want to be involved in the consumption of meat. You can't offer solutions like, "Well, you don't have to eat meat yourself. Just cook the meat for your family and have them eat the meat for you!"
Carebears might raid - with the right utility skills. They just wouldn't be raiding for the same reasons and objectives as Killers.
I'd say it's a bit off as I do enjoy socialising, don't care about achievement all that much and end up doing a lot of role-play type events a lot but I definitely like to play with and against other players in a more competitive environment to test my skills.
I really enjoy PvP and the more unexpected and dynamic encounters that it tends to involve, I will do dungeons and raid every now and then but defending others in a co-operative PvP environment in a sort of 'Guardian' role as a tank or healer is generally my favourite.
I think it mainly comes down to the type of game that it's inevitably going to be, AoC will have PvP at its core (from economic warfare and denial of resources to outright raids and sieges) and it will really blur the line between PvP/PvE since even the more casual PvE adventurers killing wolves and making the area safer will still be contributing to that wider PvP experience by advancing the local node to the detriment of other groups working on other nodes which will in turn spur more PvP, more monsters and more conflict overall.
I, too, heard Steven say that he was thinking of introducing metrics of some kind, in the way of leaderboards, for dungeons, raids, and PvP arena's. While not particularly a fan of leaderboards for dungeons/raids, I'm not opposed to them either. PvP arena leaderboards are totally fine.