Fair points. Criticism is fair game as long as it's not made under the assumption that the devs are oblivious and that the game is anything more than pre-alpha.
I'm not sure if anyone is taking that stance but the point is made.
Let's get back to the issue at hand though. Didn't someone say that IS were planning to change the bar to a circle? It still seems like a lackluster alteration to the QTE bar if that's the case.
What do people think of Proxy's idea about color particles for spells and the like?
The devs are planning to make the UI highly customizable by the players. If you want a circle rather than a bar, you can do that. If you want to resize that element by making it smaller, you can do that. If you want to place it in the middle of the screen or off to one side, you can do that. If you want to make it more transparent, you can do that. Already part of the game design before feedback from PAX.
Character animations and sound effects would not work as a replacement for the QTE. Color particles for spells seems to be a completely different feature. The game design already includes that as skins and possibly as augments.
Trying to use a glow of some type on the character model also wouldn't work because the challenge is both timing and placement - whereas glow on the character is just timing. Plus, the devs would have to worry about what colors would provide sufficient contrast against whatever colors the character is wearing.
DeathsProxy said: Its not absurd at all. If no one said anything they would assume that everything is fine and everyone loves the new combat system. So only by giving feedback would they know people are not generally happy with it.
No. That, again, is absurd. If they assumed everything is fine, they would release the game at the end of the month. They have told you it's pre-alpha because they know everything is not fine. They have specifically said that things will change. They don't expect everyone to love the new combat system - especially not in it's unfinished early state. They don't expect everyone will love the final version of the combat system.
It's like construction workers letting you look at your unfinished house and you thinking that they won't know to add a roof and drywall if you don't tell them simply because they let you view the house before it's finished.
You know how my grandma knew if I like her cooking? I either devoured everything on on my plate and went for seconds or I didn't finish eating something after tasting it.
You know how the Ashes devs know to continue as planned with the QTE and their vision of combat? The lines to play the demos remained long all 4 days of PAX - with many people standing in the lines multiple times to play again. Several people playing the PvP demo 12+ and 20+ times. I was only there Monday. I hate PvP combat and I played the PvP demo 5+ times because it was pretty fun. Clunky, but fun. Needs a lot of work, but fun. And I would have played it more, but I preferred to stand near demo GMs and talk to the devs over wasting time just standing in line for an hour.
People are generally OK with the QTE, they don't particularly like the UI for the QTE. Most of the critiques about the QTE were about the placement on the screen.
You seem obsessed with the QTE for whatever reason. I guess you hate it. But, it's in to stay for the forseeable future - regardless of how much you gripe because the feedback on the combat system has been overwhelmingly positive. "Tweak it, but keep going in the current direction."
It's like Fevir said - the combat might feel "meh" at the moment, but it's pre-alpha. I look at Pantheon combat and have no interest in touching that game. Before i saw the combat, I was somewhat intrigued. The moment I saw the combat, I was all, "Hell, no!!"
So, again, give all the feedback you want. That is perfectly fine and to be expected I don't think anyone is saying don't critique and don't provide negative feedback. But, thinking that the only way the devs will know to make changes to a pre-alpha is if we tell them what changes need to be made is about as absurd as one could get. Pre-alpha inherently means that the devs will be changing the mechanics and features - many times before alpha, many times during alpha and many times during beta - even without player feedback.
The Ashes devs will also make some changes based on player feedback - mostly starting from Alpha 0.
One again, that doesnt make my statment absurd. You even confirm later in your own post its fine to do so. Even they confirmed they want the feedback ON livestream, as working on a project you become isolated to external opinions so its hard to judge whats good or not. Nothing absurd about it.
Are people Generally okay with the QTE? Got any statistic to back up that claim thats actually valid?
DeathsProxy said: Its not absurd at all. If no one said anything they would assume that everything is fine and everyone loves the new combat system. So only by giving feedback would they know people are not generally happy with it.
the feedback on the combat system has been overwhelmingly positive. "Tweak it, but keep going in the current direction."
I don't think anyone is saying don't critique and don't provide negative feedback.
Overwhelmingly positive? Actually the combat system has been under heavy critisism in several threads and has divided opinnions to favor and against.
Well actually its been quite common counter argument here, that "no need to give feedback, because pre-alpha"..
I am not a fan of this current combo system either. I have not liked QTE systems in other games and i am not sure if AoC will do any exception with this. However i am not going to say my final word before i am personally tested this out. But without testing i can still see this causing different kind of problems. If those problems are not solved early enough, we will have shit combat and that can be deal breaker for many players even the game is how good.
There were way more people at PAX than are talking about combat in these forums. People have not been saying no need to give criticism because pre-alpha. Rather people have been saying keep in mind that it's pre-alpha, a rough draft and unfinished as you give criticism.
None of us are sure if the QTE will be enjoyable in its final iteration. Everyone who played it agrees it needs more work - at best. The devs are going to change the QTE to better fit the game design before Alpha 0. They're going to continue to iterate and to change it based on player feedback from Alpha 0, Alpha 1 and Alpha 2, and Beta 1 and Beta 2... But, it's going to remain for the foreseeable future regardless of whether some people don't like QTEs.
There were way more people at PAX than are talking about combat in these forums. People have not been saying no need to give criticism because pre-alpha. Rather people have been saying keep in mind that it's pre-alpha, a rough draft and unfinished as you give criticism.
None of us are sure if the QTE will be enjoyable in its final iteration. Everyone who played it agrees it needs more work - at best. The devs are going to change the QTE to better fit the game design before Alpha 0. They're going to continue to iterate and to change it based on player feedback from Alpha 0, Alpha 1 and Alpha 2, and Beta 1 and Beta 2... But, it's going to remain for the foreseeable future regardless of whether some people don't like QTEs.
Okay but you dodged the question:
"Are people Generally okay with the QTE? Got any statistic to back up that claim thats actually valid?"
Infact "Everyone who played it agrees it needs more work - at best." Is a general contridiction to your statement.
Also once again everyone here understands its pre-alpha, everyone understands it can and will change or evolve in some way. Everything you stated there is obvious.
And you are saying its okay to give feedback. So whats the issue? This is a thread to discuss the feedback I gave, and possibly think of or list different alternatives and others opinions regarding the combat.
People are generally OK with the QTE. Overwhelmingly so at PAX. I am not aware of any statistics being taken. If people were not generally OK with the combat at PAX, the lines would not have remained long and people would not have played multiple times.
Everyone agrees that combat needs more work is not a contradiction. Just like pancake batter can be OK but everyone agree that the batter needs to be cooked in order to be finished.
The issue is with your statement that the only way they will know what needs to be changed is from our feedback. That statement is false. I am correcting it. I dunno why you would want to make an obviously false statement - but if you admit that the statement is obviously false. Great!
I personally can't be fussed about the QTE. Once Alpha is ongoing then I will play with it and see if I like it, if I don't I will comment and give feedback. Too many times people are using anecdotal evidence to try and push their agenda on these forums. The active people here are an extremely small sample. There are maybe 100 active posters that like to quibble about minutiae, plenty of lurkers just watching it all go on. I will take the statement of (paraphrasing). "We think feedback is important, but are going to give weight to feedback from people who have actually touched the game, especially once we get to alpha/beta phases." as an indication that unlike other less transparent developers at least they are willing to listen at some point to data, and not a vocal minority that likes to reactive post.
People are generally OK with the QTE. Overwhelmingly so at PAX. I am not aware of any statistics being taken. If people were not generally OK with the combat at PAX, the lines would not have remained long and people would not have played multiple times.
Everyone agrees that combat needs more work is not a contradiction. Just like pancake batter can be OK but everyone agree that the batter needs to be cooked in order to be finished.
The issue is with your statement that the only way they will know what needs to be changed is from our feedback. That statement is false. I am correcting it. I dunno why you would want to make an obviously false statement - but if you admit that the statement is obviously false. Great!
Once again, any proof to back up those claims? Plenty of reviewers left PAX and left positive, and negative reviews regarding the QTE and other elements of combat. At best Id consider it mixed. "Overwhelmingly Ok" was a statement from Steven. Its not like he was going to say "we got lots of negative feedback".
I disagree, feedback has been taken and deemed relevent, just because you consider it irrelevent doesnt make it so. So to make a long story short, you personally have no concept of how relevent or not this feedback is, secondly you have no statistics backing up your claim that "Everyone is okay with the QTE".
I personally can't be fussed about the QTE. Once Alpha is ongoing then I will play with it and see if I like it, if I don't I will comment and give feedback. Too many times people are using anecdotal evidence to try and push their agenda on these forums. The active people here are an extremely small sample. There are maybe 100 active posters that like to quibble about minutiae, plenty of lurkers just watching it all go on. I will take the statement of (paraphrasing). "We think feedback is important, but are going to give weight to feedback from people who have actually touched the game, especially once we get to alpha/beta phases." as an indication that unlike other less transparent developers at least they are willing to listen at some point to data, and not a vocal minority that likes to reactive post.
"We think feedback is important, but are going to give weight to feedback from people who have actually touched the game, especially once we get to alpha/beta phases."
Yes, you are more correct about this statement. However there are professional and critical reviewers that went to PAX, said nothing while there and did negative reviews on several aspects of the game afterwards. Not to mention, people were sold on the concept "of what it could be" opposed to what we currently have.
Just to supply some of the many articles post PAX. Even people in my youtube comments who went to PAX agree to everything i pointed out that could be changed for the better. So is my feedback made irrelevent just because you consider it so? No. Its no. Its just irrelevent to you.
Even Isarii, who liked the premise of the combo system: https://ashenfoundry.com/articles/pax-combo-system/ Agreed with the criticism I provided in my video. I mean for the most part its logical, and clearly if they had "already thought of it" they would of done it initally.
As for the "Weighted feedback" specifically, I can assure you they will have that very soon. And to follow up the second portion regarding "having an agenda". Of course I do. Making sure this game is as successful as it possibly can is most certainly my agenda, as ultimately we all want a strong contendor for an MMORPG to play, and settling for substandard core mechanics isnt acceptable imo.
How many MMO games drastically revamp combat after they recognize it's not fun?
Well it took Crowfall a while.... and Bless is currently doing that. Cant say many MMO's revamp combat completely. Most change select elements at best, but the general premise usually remains the same.
The devs are planning to make the UI highly customizable by the players. If you want a circle rather than a bar, you can do that. If you want to resize that element by making it smaller, you can do that. If you want to place it in the middle of the screen or off to one side, you can do that. If you want to make it more transparent, you can do that. Already part of the game design before feedback from PAX.
Character animations and sound effects would not work as a replacement for the QTE. Color particles for spells seems to be a completely different feature. The game design already includes that as skins and possibly as augments.
Trying to use a glow of some type on the character model also wouldn't work because the challenge is both timing and placement - whereas glow on the character is just timing. Plus, the devs would have to worry about what colors would provide sufficient contrast against whatever colors the character is wearing.
Hmm. The customization features have potential.
Admittedly, I wasn't at PAX, so I'm in no position to take a strong stance one way or the other. I can only speak of my impressions based on the available footage.
Thus, while initial impressions don't have me enthusiastic, I'll refrain from judgment until trying the game in alpha.
After playing at PAX I want to add my name to those who do not like the "slide bar mini game" during combat. It takes away from what's happening and doesn't feel fluid. While it wasn't a game changer for me at least 3 of the 5 people I played with are heavily reconsidering playing the game should the current combat system remain.
There is also the problem of people being polite. Not many are going to stand in font of the devs and say 'your combat is bad'. Many will however remain silent and comment later. Like we saw with the youtube videos and negative reviews.
That doesnt mean combat 'is' bad. But it does mean those who dont comment reserved comment for a reason. Many people actually dont like to make a scene in public. Many people backed into a corner may also tell you exactly what you want to hear. So that everything ....appears... 'overwhelmingly positive'
Thats why you try to conduct neutral polls to ensure you get 'genuine' feedback where people are not pressured and can speak frankly. Thats why you have polling stations and such for instance. Thats why you dont allow those affected by the poll to conduct the poll. Like trion asking for unbiased opinions on their forums and then banning people for giving unbiased opinion.
I too can ignore and silence negative views and thus state the general view is positive
Anyway...I am giving the impression PAX was bad. PAX was a wonderful success with overwhelming positives to be taken away.
Conclusion: Precision timed combat mechanics just aren't viable in mass player combat; We'll all need internet traffic VPN routers to "git gud". Hand over hand abilities, minimal crowd control, and a global cooldown that doesn't get sped up is the better way to go. If it's innovative combat, cool, but most importantly it needs to be reliable.
None of us are sure if the QTE will be enjoyable in its final iteration.
I disagree, you don't need to see the future to be sure that QTEs are the worst, and building combat on top of such a shaky foundation can't end well. I could go either way on the combo system, but I know that making the combo point a QTE replaces any skill potential with a game of reflexes, framerate, and ping.
How many MMO games drastically revamp combat after they recognize it's not fun?
I believe Wildstar has a video (DevSpeak: Aiming) showing the various iterations of combat they went through before settling on their telegraph system. I don't know if any of the early systems were publicly playable.
I am not sure that QTE's are the worst, that seems more like an opinion. Also, when did reflexes lose skill status?
Would be dependant on the type of reflex. Pressing 1 key every 1 second on bar is arguablely skillful. Throwing a ball across court in basket ball for a 3 pointer is deemed skillful. Skill comes in varying degrees. The QTE imo is quite low in skill, but skill isnt just "reaction" by physical movement. Thats a misconception.
Reaction can be mental thought process to, the way you react to a situation. Thats why some thing like "Chess" is regarded as a game of skill, even without a timer present (though higher tier play often uses timers to demonstrate a higher level of skill obviously). Even though chess is turnbased, its a game of skill as you need to think ahead of what moves to use when and where.
With the current QTE there is only one option present, which is to succeed, as failure isnt an option really. There is no strategic element to it, there is no decision to make really. And in terms of physical reaction, Its hardly a hard task to achieve.
2005 MMORPG, Cabal Online has a similar QTE event, though it was slightly different as the "precision" zone was often towards the end of the bar, though thats a minor difference. https://youtu.be/DLUWFqS06Zo?t=288
After a while it becomes a tedious second nature, much like in survival games eating food every 5 minutes even though you have an infinite supply of food as your disposal in the endgame.
Cabal Online 2, replaced the QTE event bar in favour of a more complex and thoughtout combo system, and as you can see by the design change the pace of battle flows more freely, while still having things to "react" too (combo presses). https://youtu.be/oDeyBZy2g30
As I stated in the video in the original post. Its not like there a major problem with the QTE as "game element" its just theres alot of other options out there, that havent been done or tried, that are simply better imo. Thats just my opinion, but seems some people share that sentiment.
QTE bars is something thats been done before in alot of elements of different games. FF14 1.0 had them in gathering, which were removed, and turned into Golden saucer minigames in FF14 ARR. Cabal Online used them as a mainstaple for combat, which wasn't inhereited to the sequal. Some games have used them as a taming element. QTE bars often have limited success in MMO's. Usually QTE events are something you find in singleplayer games, or games with cover system such as gears of war reloading.
In general the most successful QTE's to be used were when "expanding" content (cutscenes or trigger event reactions such as rocks falling), and generally disliked when used as a combat element (Resident Evil 5 co-op..... Such bad memeories).
I don't know if the QTE will come down to just pressing 1 key every minute, I was under the impression the "Sweet spot" moved. Proper hand eye coordination is a skill and the term "reflexes" can apply to a response for a timed event, even if that event becomes second nature.
I agree that Sports and various strategy oriented games (along with others) might be better examples of a skill, but that does not make other skills not skills. If an NBA star can make a 3-point shot without trying does that mean that's no longer a skill?
Once you become an expert at something (understand it) you dont require the same level of skill. Take PvE dungeon instances. The pioneers of those dungeons would have died and died and died and died and died and died......until eventually they got a clear. Then they get more clears more often. Eventually they clear it without fail. New players start and watch a video. They clear the same dungeon 1st time instead of the 100s of times the pioneers took. Are the new players more skilled because they did it 1st time ? Skill comes through adapting and overcoming your environment. Once you have adapted to the environment, memory takes over and skill is not required. The youtube video provides the memory in this case.
Show me someone who survives in a constantly changing environment where they have to constantly adapt.....and I will show you a skilled person.
Hit anything that moves....doesnt have much depth.
I don't know if the QTE will come down to just pressing 1 key every minute, I was under the impression the "Sweet spot" moved.
The fact that the "sweet spot" changes is what makes it a QTE. Its the design of combat currently that you'll be repeatedly using the weapon skill, because all your other skills aren't appropriate to use or are on cooldown. And missing the QTE on the weapon skill will lead to less focus, less damage, and more downtime, so you better be hitting that 1 as often as you can.
The combat looked trash over all. Extremely disappointed was very hyped along with alot of my friends we didn't know for sure about the tab targeting rumors being true till the PAX. Every discord and community Im in is saying RIP AoC. the slider bar thing isnt a big deal but if you are basing your combat around doing a skill and waiting that's boring and slow. Just copy BDO, BDO is easy to play just dont be lazy and put a little practice into it. The way I see the combat turning out in AoC is little gimmicks to disguise as skilled play while the combat is boring and slow with a lot of quick time events every time you want to do a skill.
It's a bit soon for RIP AoC. There are plenty of ways to add to the combat as it is, which would actually benefit from the apparent pace, which, when you play, seems a lot quicker.
The combat looked trash over all. Extremely disappointed was very hyped along with alot of my friends we didn't know for sure about the tab targeting rumors being true till the PAX. Every discord and community Im in is saying RIP AoC. the slider bar thing isnt a big deal but if you are basing your combat around doing a skill and waiting that's boring and slow. Just copy BDO, BDO is easy to play just dont be lazy and put a little practice into it. The way I see the combat turning out in AoC is little gimmicks to disguise as skilled play while the combat is boring and slow with a lot of quick time events every time you want to do a skill.
BDO combat shouldn't be the standard imo. Just because you and your friends like it, doesn't mean that everybody in this community likes that style. There are many more flavours to choose from and not everybody will like the flavour AoC will be.
I still plenty of people being hyped and more coming everyday so I guess the communities you are part of are the ones that fall into the category of not liking this flavour. I personally am still very excited about this game, because I got faith in the core mechanics of the game and the development team, and I'm sure they will choose the right path for combat as well. Feedback has been given, now let's give them time to implement said feedback and wait for a next build of combat.
So you would want to be skilled at it? Or have good hand-eye reflexes to nail it?
QTEs aren't a measure of skill. They are a measure of ping (i.e. how close to the server do you live), framerate (i.e. how much did you spend on your computer), and twitch reflexes (i.e. how old are you). By its very nature, you can't get better at the QTE through effort. I can't understand why people would want something like that as the foundation for combat.
Comments
If you want a circle rather than a bar, you can do that.
If you want to resize that element by making it smaller, you can do that.
If you want to place it in the middle of the screen or off to one side, you can do that.
If you want to make it more transparent, you can do that.
Already part of the game design before feedback from PAX.
Character animations and sound effects would not work as a replacement for the QTE.
Color particles for spells seems to be a completely different feature. The game design already includes that as skins and possibly as augments.
Trying to use a glow of some type on the character model also wouldn't work because the challenge is both timing and placement - whereas glow on the character is just timing.
Plus, the devs would have to worry about what colors would provide sufficient contrast against whatever colors the character is wearing.
Are people Generally okay with the QTE? Got any statistic to back up that claim thats actually valid?
Well actually its been quite common counter argument here, that "no need to give feedback, because pre-alpha"..
I am not a fan of this current combo system either. I have not liked QTE systems in other games and i am not sure if AoC will do any exception with this. However i am not going to say my final word before i am personally tested this out. But without testing i can still see this causing different kind of problems. If those problems are not solved early enough, we will have shit combat and that can be deal breaker for many players even the game is how good.
People have not been saying no need to give criticism because pre-alpha.
Rather people have been saying keep in mind that it's pre-alpha, a rough draft and unfinished as you give criticism.
None of us are sure if the QTE will be enjoyable in its final iteration.
Everyone who played it agrees it needs more work - at best.
The devs are going to change the QTE to better fit the game design before Alpha 0. They're going to continue to iterate and to change it based on player feedback from Alpha 0, Alpha 1 and Alpha 2, and Beta 1 and Beta 2...
But, it's going to remain for the foreseeable future regardless of whether some people don't like QTEs.
"Are people Generally okay with the QTE? Got any statistic to back up that claim thats actually valid?"
Infact
"Everyone who played it agrees it needs more work - at best." Is a general contridiction to your statement.
Also once again everyone here understands its pre-alpha, everyone understands it can and will change
or evolve in some way. Everything you stated there is obvious.
And you are saying its okay to give feedback. So whats the issue? This is a thread to discuss the feedback
I gave, and possibly think of or list different alternatives and others opinions regarding the combat.
Overwhelmingly so at PAX. I am not aware of any statistics being taken.
If people were not generally OK with the combat at PAX, the lines would not have remained long and people would not have played multiple times.
Everyone agrees that combat needs more work is not a contradiction.
Just like pancake batter can be OK but everyone agree that the batter needs to be cooked in order to be finished.
The issue is with your statement that the only way they will know what needs to be changed is from our feedback. That statement is false. I am correcting it.
I dunno why you would want to make an obviously false statement - but if you admit that the statement is obviously false. Great!
I disagree, feedback has been taken and deemed relevent, just because you consider it irrelevent doesnt make it so. So to make a long story short, you personally have no concept of how relevent or not this feedback is, secondly you have no statistics backing up your claim that "Everyone is okay with the QTE".
"We think feedback is important, but are going to give weight to feedback from people who have actually touched the game, especially once we get to alpha/beta phases."
Yes, you are more correct about this statement. However there are professional and critical reviewers that went to PAX, said nothing while there and did negative reviews on several aspects of the game afterwards. Not to mention, people were sold on the concept "of what it could be" opposed to what we currently have.
Fevir is one person that played it.
Another is MMOgames Nick Shively:
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/pax-west-hands-on-ashes-of-creation/
Another is Mithrandiel:
http://mithicalentertainment.com/pax-west-exclusive-interview-jeffrey-bard/
Just to supply some of the many articles post PAX. Even people in my youtube comments who went to PAX agree to everything i pointed out that could be changed for the better. So is my feedback made irrelevent just because you consider it so? No. Its no. Its just irrelevent to you.
Even Isarii, who liked the premise of the combo system:
https://ashenfoundry.com/articles/pax-combo-system/
Agreed with the criticism I provided in my video. I mean for the most part its logical, and clearly if they had "already thought of it" they would of done it initally.
As for the "Weighted feedback" specifically, I can assure you they will have that very soon. And to follow up the second portion regarding "having an agenda". Of course I do. Making sure this game is as successful as it possibly can is most certainly my agenda, as ultimately we all want
a strong contendor for an MMORPG to play, and settling for substandard core mechanics isnt acceptable imo.
Admittedly, I wasn't at PAX, so I'm in no position to take a strong stance one way or the other. I can only speak of my impressions based on the available footage.
Thus, while initial impressions don't have me enthusiastic, I'll refrain from judgment until trying the game in alpha.
Not many are going to stand in font of the devs and say 'your combat is bad'.
Many will however remain silent and comment later.
Like we saw with the youtube videos and negative reviews.
That doesnt mean combat 'is' bad.
But it does mean those who dont comment reserved comment for a reason.
Many people actually dont like to make a scene in public.
Many people backed into a corner may also tell you exactly what you want to hear.
So that everything ....appears... 'overwhelmingly positive'
Thats why you try to conduct neutral polls to ensure you get 'genuine' feedback where people are not pressured and can speak frankly.
Thats why you have polling stations and such for instance.
Thats why you dont allow those affected by the poll to conduct the poll.
Like trion asking for unbiased opinions on their forums and then banning people for giving unbiased opinion.
I too can ignore and silence negative views and thus state the general view is positive
Anyway...I am giving the impression PAX was bad.
PAX was a wonderful success with overwhelming positives to be taken away.
Precision bar for combat: unacceptable
Reason: Latency, and frequency of application
Example: ESO animation canceling
Conclusion: Precision timed combat mechanics just aren't viable in mass player combat; We'll all need internet traffic VPN routers to "git gud". Hand over hand abilities, minimal crowd control, and a global cooldown that doesn't get sped up is the better way to go. If it's innovative combat, cool, but most importantly it needs to be reliable.
I believe Wildstar has a video (DevSpeak: Aiming) showing the various iterations of combat they went through before settling on their telegraph system. I don't know if any of the early systems were publicly playable.
Also, when did reflexes lose skill status?
Reaction can be mental thought process to, the way you react to a situation. Thats why some thing like "Chess" is regarded as a game of skill, even without a timer present (though higher tier play often uses timers to demonstrate a higher level of skill obviously). Even though chess is turnbased, its a game of skill as you need to think ahead of what moves to use when and where.
With the current QTE there is only one option present, which is to succeed, as failure isnt an option really. There is no strategic element to it, there is no decision to make really. And in terms of physical reaction, Its hardly a hard task to achieve.
2005 MMORPG, Cabal Online has a similar QTE event, though it was slightly different as the "precision" zone was often towards the end of the bar, though thats a minor difference.
After a while it becomes a tedious second nature, much like in survival games eating food every 5 minutes even though you have an infinite supply of food as your disposal in the endgame.
Cabal Online 2, replaced the QTE event bar in favour of a more complex and thoughtout combo system, and as you can see by the design change the pace of battle flows more freely, while still having things to "react" too (combo presses).
As I stated in the video in the original post. Its not like there a major problem with the QTE as "game element" its just theres alot of other options out there, that havent been done or tried, that are simply better imo. Thats just my opinion, but seems some people share that sentiment.
QTE bars is something thats been done before in alot of elements of different games. FF14 1.0 had them in gathering, which were removed, and turned into Golden saucer minigames in FF14 ARR.
Cabal Online used them as a mainstaple for combat, which wasn't inhereited to the sequal. Some games have used them as a taming element. QTE bars often have limited success in MMO's. Usually QTE events are something you find in singleplayer games, or games with cover system such as gears of war reloading.
In general the most successful QTE's to be used were when "expanding" content (cutscenes or trigger event reactions such as rocks falling), and generally disliked when used as a combat element (Resident Evil 5 co-op..... Such bad memeories).
I agree that Sports and various strategy oriented games (along with others) might be better examples of a skill, but that does not make other skills not skills. If an NBA star can make a 3-point shot without trying does that mean that's no longer a skill?
Take PvE dungeon instances. The pioneers of those dungeons would have died and died and died and died and died and died......until eventually they got a clear. Then they get more clears more often. Eventually they clear it without fail.
New players start and watch a video. They clear the same dungeon 1st time instead of the 100s of times the pioneers took. Are the new players more skilled because they did it 1st time ?
Skill comes through adapting and overcoming your environment. Once you have adapted to the environment, memory takes over and skill is not required. The youtube video provides the memory in this case.
Show me someone who survives in a constantly changing environment where they have to constantly adapt.....and I will show you a skilled person.
Hit anything that moves....doesnt have much depth.
I still plenty of people being hyped and more coming everyday so I guess the communities you are part of are the ones that fall into the category of not liking this flavour. I personally am still very excited about this game, because I got faith in the core mechanics of the game and the development team, and I'm sure they will choose the right path for combat as well. Feedback has been given, now let's give them time to implement said feedback and wait for a next build of combat.
Game still hasn't entered family/friends testing
Over a year away from Alpha 1 testing
RIP Ashes