Dev Discussion #2 - Solo Gameplay

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  • makizhmakizh Member
    Dear all,

    I love to play with Guild-Mates in Raids or Dungeons with my Team-Mates. But what i love most is, to have a very hard to finish targets. If I could name some examples I enjoyed in World of Warcraft, was the Onyxia Pre-Quest (enjoyed. Was long, but not so hard), where you had to play solo, with a Team-Mate and with a Group. The secound thing i really enjoyed in WoW was the Magetower Challanges, where you had to have a) Skill b) Gear.
    For me it is most important to have Skill-Based quests and opportunities to Test my skills and / or gear. For me, the gear you should be able to optain in "Hard-to-achive"-Quests should be equivalent to the one, you can get in ~5 group Dungeons. With "Very-Hard-to-achiev"-Quests should be a bit above this Dungeons. This will bring Group Players to run the Dungeons, obtain Gear fast and move on to Raids or whatever. And have Solo-Players get the gear by playing themselves and have still possibilities to join bigger gaming groups later, as the gear-gap will not be this brutal.

    For PVP in my opinion, you should be able to achieve everything someone can achieve with groups. So 1on1 should be same rewards like 5on5. In open PVP i would limit the penalty for players only playing PVE by not penalizing either gear in open PVP (pve gear nor pvp gear).

    Regards
    Makizh
  • nestharusnestharus Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    edited May 13
    jodypse wrote: »
    nestharus wrote: »
    dygz, while it is true that players have always been able to reach level cap without grouping in MMOs, the old MMOs weren't designed to allow that. People found ways around the designs to do it. More of trying, at any cost, to figure out how to solo rather than play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played.
    I would have to disagree. Most MMORPG's are set up to have multiple ways to play them, not an intentionally single way designed into it. Most single player RPG's have though though even those are attempting to have more ways to manage the game than the "main plot".
    The whole intention with gathering, exploring, crafting, hobbies, and more, is to allow for specific solo play while still being part of the community by selling and trading and crafting for others than self.
    While there are those that try to find ways to so group contents solo, I am not saying there aren't, those are a minority, not a large group at all, of the gamers. Even so saying that they are not playing the game as designed might still be wrong. The game designers might have actually made their type of play possible in some instances, or not made the design with the thought of stopping them so if they find a way then they find a way.

    All killing beyond level 5 in EQ1 classic was group content unless the players went for enemies WAY below their level or found a way to kill enemies that the devs didn't intend. Pantheon will be the same way. Not all MMOs let you play by yourself. If you want to play by yourself in those, you really have to find a way that the devs did not intend. In Pantheon, the content gets so hard (for enemies around or even below your level) that your healthbar is going to be bouncing up and down. There was only a small handful of classes that even had a way to solo (again, not intended by devs, just players figured out how).

    You can say that the first MMORPGs always had solo content, but you'd be lying to yourself. Dark Age of Camelot believed in huge group battles and the like too. Ashes said it'd bring group play back to MMOs and kill single player MMORPGs more or less. That's one of the reasons I backed it.

    Fun fact, in those super old school MMOs, sometimes I would spend 54 hours lfg. Some people would only get one group a week. You can see why MMORPGs started to let people solo.
  • gennagenna Member, Leader of Men
    edited May 13
    nestharus wrote: »
    dygz, while it is true that players have always been able to reach level cap without grouping in MMOs, the old MMOs weren't designed to allow that. People found ways around the designs to do it. More of trying, at any cost, to figure out how to solo rather than play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played.

    You are totally right.
    They weren't all designed as soloable, but people found a way. ....

    Showing that if there wasn't a demand for it, it wouldn't be the default play style of a lot of modern day MMORPG players.

  • sunfrogsunfrog Member, Pioneer
    I've been thinking about this for a long time and I don't have an answer for you. As a solo player I don't think I should be able to kill the boss of all bosses single-handedly, but I don't want to ask people for help either. I'm a lone wolf baby. I go where the wind blows and howl for no one. :smile:
  • dygzdygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited May 14
    I started playing MMORPGs with vanilla EQ. Soloing; not grouping.
    I didn't like DAoC.
    I mostly switched between EQ, AO, EQ2 and WoW.
    I didn't experience everything being group content after level 5. It was possible for me to spend weeks on a mid-level, sure. If I felt I was stuck on a hell level in one game, I would switch to another and wait for the content in the previous one to be nerfed.

    I never looked for a group. Sometimes I would duo for a while with someone I ran into working on the same quest(s). Sometimes I would agree to join a group if they desperately needed to fill their final spot.
  • blackheartedblackhearted Member
    edited May 14
    Soloing all open-world content should be possible with having bosses scale in relation to attackers.

    I think dungeons and raids should be left for groups to promote playing with others, it is supposed to be an MMO after all.
  • jalvordjalvord Member, Braver of Worlds
    Soloing all open-world content should be possible with having bosses scale in relation to attackers.

    I think dungeons and raids should be left for groups to promote playing with others, it is supposed to be an MMO after all.

    no. there should be no scaling at all. soloing all open-world content seems fishy to me.
    ehh boom
  • teylouneteyloune Member, Leader of Men
    How do you feel about solo progression? How far should a player be able to progress as a "lone wolf"?
    There should always be something to do for people, but they should never expect to see all the content, if they refuse to play with others.
  • dygzdygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited May 18
    Solo players should be able to see all content in an open world MMORPG.
    That doesn't mean they should be able to defeat all content/challenges on their own.
  • jentarajentara Member, Braver of Worlds
    Dev Discussion #2 - Solo Gameplay
    How do you feel about solo progression? How far should a player be able to progress as a "lone wolf"?

    Hate to ask a question to answer a question, but...what does Lone Wolf mean? That I have one account with one character...or that I have one account with 30 characters? For the love of a good economy and the need to trade...but allow people to progress deep into the game content alone...Limit character creation so that people have to at some point rely on others to advance or gain items. But does that then mean they are not a Lone Wolf? hmmmmm

    Last thing I want to do is HAVE to group for everything. Frankly, a player should be progress as far as they want as a lone wolf in the respect of just playing the game. It should just take them longer and they need to be more creative to do it. They will also have to accept that some things need a group to do, however there should be other ways for the solo player to gain the same benefit. Besides things like running a city or taking over a realm. I'm speaking more to the general play of the game.
    If you need a group to kill a boss, to get a Sword of Superness. Then as a lone wolf...what are my options to get that sword too? Steal it or Buy it!

    If I want to be the best at a craft, as a solo player...I better enjoy trading.
    If I want to be the best fighter in the world, I better enjoy practicing and...well trading (need a way to get the goods).
    If I want to be....well, anything great in the game...at some point I'm going to need resources from someone else. Am I a Lone Wolf?

  • damoklesdamokles Member
    jentara wrote: »
    Hate to ask a question to answer a question, but...what does Lone Wolf mean? That I have one account with one character...or that I have one account with 30 characters? For the love of a good economy and the need to trade...but allow people to progress deep into the game content alone...

    A Lone Wolf is normally some one who does not like to join groups, just does not sees the need to join goups to do things that can be done alone, wants to challenge himself or is just not socially adept.
    Being a Lone Wolf has nothing to do with the amount of characters, it is a mentallity.
    4vIAwsd.gif
  • auraticusauraticus Member
    TL:DR
    Everybody has their strengths, and their weaknesses. Strength can sometimes prosper in numbers, but your overall capacity shouldn't be restricted by some linear path the game would prefer you to pursue. It's a living breathing world after all, right?

    The world is in essence a living, changing thing, distinguish for the player to influence and explore. Experience gained shouldn't be affected by "lone wolfing", naturally that doesn't mean someone isn't going to have some form of individual handicap. We're not God's, even the ones of us who boast a "one man army". In that, our items and skill can only take us so far. With that said it would be a bit of a travesty if your capacity was restrained by the mechanics of the game simply because you did not play in the expected and otherwise coerced style of the game. After all the world shouldn't have a style, so the freedom to be the type of character you want should be prioritized above all else. There shouldn't be this linear path less you receive harsh penalties. Lone wolfing isn't just a "style", and it would be a shame if it the game forced or penalized you for it.

    Generally speaking, dungeons shouldn't be things you can simply walts on into. I don't think doing things on your own should be acknowledged by the environment that "adjusts to your level and the number of party members available" to accommodate the party size or strength. If a lone player wants to enter a dungeon, they can attempt to at their own peril. Their experience gained from killing monsters shouldn't be affected because their alone. Naturally, with help and party members, that in itself is enough to give you strength and increase your overall capacity. It makes sense that something like that would provide its own additional experience as well, especially if say a party member were to buff or otherwise support you. Anyway lone wolfs shouldn't be capped at gold, if they'd like they can enter and see how far they can go, at the very least it would provide them with some information on the overall capacity of the dungeon so party members or a guild can better prepare to take on the denizens of such a husk.
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