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Corruption system
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"I also think it's kind of on you if you get jumped and are either too weak to protect yourself or not prepared to reset the fight. While farming, you should be able to keep your resources up if you pace yourself."
Not sure what "...not prepared to reset the fight" means. This is an interesting point, in reference to my statement, but you may have been making a point separate from what I said, so my response may be off.
If you are suggesting as I am running about killing mobs and gathering/mining that I should be able to protect myself, I 100% agree. My statement was related to ending a fight and immediately being attacked, I did not use the immediate quantifier in the second part of the post but I thought it would had been implied.
I was specifically referring to the act of someone waiting for the fight to finish and then attacking me before I had a chance to recover, where their character was still fresh. I find this move cowardly, since again, their goal is too lessen their risk. So they can have the corruption.
As for the penalties of non-combatant death, I am not stuck on all of these numbers and stat modifiers like others may be. So for me, it's not really a consideration.
I wrote an example for this
[EXAMPLE]
For our example we are going to say that the normal death penalty is 10,000 negative experience and a 50% drop rate for any gatherables you have on you. That is the penalty upon death for a non-combatant. For a combatant this would be 5,000 negative experience and a 25% drop rate.
When you in non-combatant status, anyone who attacks you runs the risk of corruption. The decision of if they get corruption or not is completely up to you as the defender.
In our first situation, you are out gathering wild Corn and you get attacked by someone who clearly outmatched you. It is easy to tell they are going to beat you as they out gear you out level you, or are playing a hard counter to your class. Since the only gatherable you have in your back is Corn, then it is highly likely in this scenario you will choose to not defend yourself and remain a non-combatant, thus sticking your attacker with Corruption. The defender’s goal in this situation is that the attacker will get corruption, be a legal target for everyone, get killed down the road by a bounty hunter and lose all the Corn they just stole.
What if we keep all the parameters of the scenario the same, but instead of having Corn in your bag, what if you had just finished mining out a Diamond node and you have 100 diamonds. The same guy attacks you; he still out gears or out levels you. You still have the choice to stand there and take it as a non-combatant and you still have the option to stick your attacker with corruption. If you do that, you will lose your gatherables at a 50% drop rate, which means you will lose 50 diamonds. If, however, you decide to defend yourself, you now become a combatant and you take 50% of a normal death penalty, which means when you die you are only going to drop 25 diamonds.
NOTE: Remember this was a conceptual example. We have no hard figures from Intrepid yet.
So I mean sometimes you'll fight back just to not lose the full death penalty's work of gatherables.
So if the battle is clearly one sided I can choose not to fight back. They gain my diamonds sure, but their loss when they die to remove corruption (or killed by a bounty hunter) will be greater for it.
So yes, my loss is initially greater. Their loss later will be greater for it. That seems like an even trade, even if I am not the one getting their diamonds.
And if I gain 5K negative xp from getting attacked by a player while I'm farming, I'm going to ragequit.
Heck, I will probably ragequit if I get 5K negative xp from dying to a mob attack.
That is a load of crap. A fight can take quite a bit out of you. Go play a warrior in vanilla wow, and you will see how stupid your comment is. Often you agro more than one mob.
I remember back when i played TBC. I can't count how many times i was attack by a rogue. while fighting a mob or just after. Or how many times i was fighting a mob and then i see i have gotten some curses dots. Boom i'm fear and got a pet attacking me. When fear is gone i'm ½ dead. How do you expect to prepare for this.
I think the PvP in this game will ruin it for me. I hate being forced into it. From what i at times hear, i think the game will suck partly because of it
Did I miss something?
For the same reasons they mentioned, you can circumvent it. For example, in other games with a system where you get punished for attacking a player, people can just bait you into it. Examples of this include if you have an aoe ability they can run inside of it. Other examples include griefing you until you just attack them since words aren't exactly effective in most games if the person is looking to bother you. Just too easily abused and able to be circumvented that will give players an avenue to be more toxic instead of deterring toxicity.
I edited your quote and added the bold part.
Pretty sure it’s been clarified you can’t flag with an AoE, I’ll have to look for the quote later
For the same reasons they mentioned, you can circumvent it. For example, in other games with a system where you get punished for attacking a player, people can just bait you into it. Examples of this include if you have an aoe ability they can run inside of it. Other examples include griefing you until you just attack them since words aren't exactly effective in most games if the person is looking to bother you. Just too easily abused and able to be circumvented that will give players an avenue to be more toxic instead of deterring toxicity.[/quote]
Pretty sure it’s been clarified you can’t flag with an AoE, I’ll have to look for the quote later[/quote]
How much resources it takes to fight an encounter depends on the game (and enounter). I do agree i lack context as we don't know how much resources it will take to fight an encounter in ashes but i can't remember a game that if i paced myself (at least at max level), i couldn't keep myself healthy. You also have control over this as you can choose where you farm. If you can't farm mobs in an area without being dropped to 50% health every pull maybe you should go somewhere else if you don't want to take the risk.
I can't tell you how to prepare for warlocks or rogues in ashes as it's not wow and we don't have the class abilities/augments yet. I also don't know the class you will be playing and even if i did, i don't know it's abilities. Balancing classes is one of the challenges they have and until we are playing them, we won't know how they interact or what they can do to each other.
Currently, the only thing i know that can help you when you are getting ganked is a friend..or two. I know it's not always an option but It's all i can give you atm.
Side note: Early on development, we had the focus which is a resource that functioned like rage and allowed you to use stronger abilities(like ultimates). If this is still a mechanic at launch and you are fighting mobs, you should have more focus then anyone who is jumping you which should give you an ability advantage on them.
I mean, I can gather back the xp too.
I'm not sure if your quote was in response to my response about a response or not...
But to clarify, I am 100% okay with not fighting back to cause corruption if I think the fight is unfair. To me Ashes will be a video game, so reclaiming lost resources or xp is all the same. When I consider the overall amount of time I will likely have invested over several years, the 'reclaiming' of lost things will be insignificant. If not somewhat appreciated for delaying max level a little longer.
you can go to hell with that thread
You had already clarified you don’t care about stats.
With regard to xp... my issue is really more about hours needed to acquire a new ability or augment.
Because xp debt translates into more hours of me doing the same stuff rather than doing something new.
Especially as an explorer, that means more hours stuck in the same areas because I won’t be able to survive higher level areas.
Gathering resources is typically much quicker than gaining xp.
Probably also, since I’m a carebear and gaining adventurer xp typically requires more combat, that equates to more hours of killing stuff...which I actually prefer to avoid.
I suppose, now that you mention it, how much I care about xp debt will depend on how easy/difficult/fun it feels to gain xp in other ways besides combat.
Might also feel different in Ashes, since the areas I can safely travel will be dynamically changing rather than remaining static, so might also feel fun and rewarding revisiting places I’ve previously explored. Might even be a good excuse to revisit previously explored areas and use abilities I didn’t have the first go round.
But, it is still bizarre to me that people seem to focus only on the one death penalty of dropped resources and completely ignore or trivialize the other death penalties.
I agree all tulnar must die they are vermin and need to be removed
You say 'fighting,' but I prefer to think of it as Forum PvP... Poster versus Poster.
You cant palm a face, if you dont have a face Nagash! xD
Skullpalm in your case. ;D
They're called "words"
ok smart ass
It sounds like you haven't played vanilla wow. That is pretty much how the game is, atleast for a warrior. This can be a fight against mobs that are a couple of levels lower than you. Plus you go where the quests take you. I have a feeling Ashes will be just as tough.
I had forgotten some of these penalty's. But i have a feeling i won't stick around for to long. Seems like a game where you can't have a life if you want to actualy progress in it. Depending on the number of servers they will have at release, i think they should already start preparing for server merges. Though i do recall that they have already talked about, what they will do, if it comes to that. Which i think it will
I don't see xp loss as any sort of deterrent myself - unless we get confirmation that you can de-level from it.
The bulk of any MMO is played at max level (at least it is in the few MMO's that have released this information). If de-leveling isn't a thing, negative xp isn't an issue to anyone at max level, meaning it isn't an issue to the bulk of the population for the bulk of the games life.
That's not to say it won't be a consideration for some people some of the time - it just won't be a big issue over all - and will literally never be an issue for me personally.
That said, since we know player inventory in relation to raw materials won't be very big (hence the need for caravans to take them to different nodes), chances are the resources you stand to lose from being killed won't take you that long to get back either.
The only thing I can see being an issue is in regards to rare crafting materials.
For the same reasons they mentioned, you can circumvent it. For example, in other games with a system where you get punished for attacking a player, people can just bait you into it. Examples of this include if you have an aoe ability they can run inside of it. Other examples include griefing you until you just attack them since words aren't exactly effective in most games if the person is looking to bother you. Just too easily abused and able to be circumvented that will give players an avenue to be more toxic instead of deterring toxicity.[/quote]If I'm AoE'ing some mobs, and you run in to my AoE, nothing will happen. I need to flag for PvP combat in order for my AoE to do damage to you - unless you have corruption in which case I have no penalty for attacking you.
If someone baits you in to attacking them via words, that isn't circumventing the system - that IS the system.