This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
As a woman, given what we have seen from pre-order packs I am not worried. There are so many women in vocal positions at Intrepid and it shows in the costume concepts. I'm appreciating the lack of sexualization in armor sets and the general stylishness of them. If I want to look pretty give me a good costume. I have buckets of other games for when I want to wear 'thot' armor.
But in the end I personally don't mind having both in a game. It's just that when you have both the demand for the 'thot' armor goes up drastically compared to the nonsexualized and the devs rightfully make the business decision to invest in the cosmetics that sell best. Intrepid is already taking a stance by saying no in the first place. It's harder to resist greed when the results are more tangible. But hey if they did manage to 'keep producing both types despite that' more of my money to them.
I agree on this part, the "bikini" armour should be cosmetic, but the more realistic gear should actually be the main equipment you find in the world.
However, "bikini" armour shouldn't be store only cosmetics obviously, so there is some source of it from pure gameplay xD
I strongly disagree. If it isn't in store only it's going to be wildly popular in cities and pollute the over all world feel. Im ok with this, but only if it means the devs are getting paid for said pollution. I have other games I can go to if I want to see hundreds of dancing avatars in skimpy clothing.
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
As a woman, given what we have seen from pre-order packs I am not worried. There are so many women in vocal positions at Intrepid and it shows in the costume concepts. I'm appreciating the lack of sexualization in armor sets and the general stylishness of them. If I want to look pretty give me a good costume. I have buckets of other games for when I want to wear 'thot' armor.
But in the end I personally don't mind having both in a game. It's just that when you have both the demand for the 'thot' armor goes up drastically compared to the nonsexualized and the devs rightfully make the business decision to invest in the cosmetics that sell best. Intrepid is already taking a stance by saying no in the first place. It's harder to resist greed when the results are more tangible. But hey if they did manage to 'keep producing both types despite that' more of my money to them.
I agree on this part, the "bikini" armour should be cosmetic, but the more realistic gear should actually be the main equipment you find in the world.
However, "bikini" armour shouldn't be store only cosmetics obviously, so there is some source of it from pure gameplay xD
I strongly disagree. If it isn't in store only it's going to be wildly popular in cities and pollute the over all world feel. Im ok with this, but only if it means the devs are getting paid for said pollution. I have other games I can go to if I want to see hundreds of dancing avatars in skimpy clothing.
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
Hmm pollute isn't quite the right word yes. I was honestly saying it to tease George. I meant more so that, ashes has clearly started their over all intention for how they want cosmetics to feel relative to this topicl, bikini armor would go against that. Im generally fine with most things that break the asthetic intended if you are willing to pay for them to limit the effect on the populations over all asthetic.
As I have said multiple times in this thread I don't mind said armor. I play other games that have that asthetic and enjoy myself in those spaces. I have made no claims on the opinions of others.
And since it is a side bar I put this at the bottom, but in what way are tuxedos and bikini armor not equal in terms of 'not achieving ashes announced asthetic'
Love how every time someone asks for attractive (or “hot”) sets for female characters, all those who oppose the idea start screeching “bikini armor no good!”. Like, do you people realize those of us (male or female) who want our female characters to look hot DON’T literally mean wearing bikinis. I mean for crying out loud is that all you can come up with?
I"m not sure if this is a reply to my armor idea, but in case it is, it wasn't entirely out of just wanting to see it, there's also the functionality to think of. If a wrap-cross top does get added to the game, it would be best for agility stats due to how simple it is.
I’m not entirely sure how you thought my post was a reply to yours but to clarify, no it wasn’t. I think your idea was a good one.
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
As a woman, given what we have seen from pre-order packs I am not worried. There are so many women in vocal positions at Intrepid and it shows in the costume concepts. I'm appreciating the lack of sexualization in armor sets and the general stylishness of them. If I want to look pretty give me a good costume. I have buckets of other games for when I want to wear 'thot' armor.
But in the end I personally don't mind having both in a game. It's just that when you have both the demand for the 'thot' armor goes up drastically compared to the nonsexualized and the devs rightfully make the business decision to invest in the cosmetics that sell best. Intrepid is already taking a stance by saying no in the first place. It's harder to resist greed when the results are more tangible. But hey if they did manage to 'keep producing both types despite that' more of my money to them.
I agree on this part, the "bikini" armour should be cosmetic, but the more realistic gear should actually be the main equipment you find in the world.
However, "bikini" armour shouldn't be store only cosmetics obviously, so there is some source of it from pure gameplay xD
I strongly disagree. If it isn't in store only it's going to be wildly popular in cities and pollute the over all world feel. Im ok with this, but only if it means the devs are getting paid for said pollution. I have other games I can go to if I want to see hundreds of dancing avatars in skimpy clothing.
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
Hmm pollute isn't quite the right word yes. I was honestly saying it to tease George. I meant more so that, ashes has clearly started their over all intention for how they want cosmetics to feel relative to this topicl, bikini armor would go against that. Im generally fine with most things that break the asthetic intended if you are willing to pay for them to limit the effect on the populations over all asthetic.
As I have said multiple times in this thread I don't mind said armor. I play other games that have that asthetic and enjoy myself in those spaces. I have made no claims on the opinions of others.
And since it is a side bar I put this at the bottom, but in what way are tuxedos and bikini armor not equal in terms of 'not achieving ashes announced asthetic'
The only unfitting cosmetics are tuxedos etc, that you can see far too much in FF14 and BDO. Bikini is probably a mild drop. It still looks high fantasy and still fits aesthetics. It's only really bad if it's the only female armour available, but Interpid clearly knows this sort of thing should be cosmetic only and THAT is the right direction. Tho, like I said before, gladiator armour can stay as it often is seen in games etc 😆
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
As a woman, given what we have seen from pre-order packs I am not worried. There are so many women in vocal positions at Intrepid and it shows in the costume concepts. I'm appreciating the lack of sexualization in armor sets and the general stylishness of them. If I want to look pretty give me a good costume. I have buckets of other games for when I want to wear 'thot' armor.
But in the end I personally don't mind having both in a game. It's just that when you have both the demand for the 'thot' armor goes up drastically compared to the nonsexualized and the devs rightfully make the business decision to invest in the cosmetics that sell best. Intrepid is already taking a stance by saying no in the first place. It's harder to resist greed when the results are more tangible. But hey if they did manage to 'keep producing both types despite that' more of my money to them.
I agree on this part, the "bikini" armour should be cosmetic, but the more realistic gear should actually be the main equipment you find in the world.
However, "bikini" armour shouldn't be store only cosmetics obviously, so there is some source of it from pure gameplay xD
I strongly disagree. If it isn't in store only it's going to be wildly popular in cities and pollute the over all world feel. Im ok with this, but only if it means the devs are getting paid for said pollution. I have other games I can go to if I want to see hundreds of dancing avatars in skimpy clothing.
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
Hmm pollute isn't quite the right word yes. I was honestly saying it to tease George. I meant more so that, ashes has clearly started their over all intention for how they want cosmetics to feel relative to this topicl, bikini armor would go against that. Im generally fine with most things that break the asthetic intended if you are willing to pay for them to limit the effect on the populations over all asthetic.
As I have said multiple times in this thread I don't mind said armor. I play other games that have that asthetic and enjoy myself in those spaces. I have made no claims on the opinions of others.
And since it is a side bar I put this at the bottom, but in what way are tuxedos and bikini armor not equal in terms of 'not achieving ashes announced asthetic'
The only unfitting cosmetics are tuxedos etc, that you can see far too much in FF14 and BDO. Bikini is probably a mild drop. It still looks high fantasy and still fits aesthetics. It's only really bad if it's the only female armour available, but Interpid clearly knows this sort of thing should be cosmetic only and THAT is the right direction. Tho, like I said before, gladiator armour can stay as it often is seen in games etc 😆
What are your opinions of the second pic in the gladiator set above btw?
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
Total agreement. Feels like Ashes is doing a bit better than New World on that front but I feel like there’s someone with some level of authority or influence with the design/art department that is extremely prudish or feminist (the type that is actually anti feminist and wants women to look masculine and/or plain).
Feather ruffling time! I hope they don’t appeal only to the medieval realism nerds who shudder at the thought of cleavage. Let the realism fanatics wear realistic armor, and let the people who want a fashionable or “sexy” character have their way too. Make more money on the cash shop that way.
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This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
As a woman, given what we have seen from pre-order packs I am not worried. There are so many women in vocal positions at Intrepid and it shows in the costume concepts. I'm appreciating the lack of sexualization in armor sets and the general stylishness of them. If I want to look pretty give me a good costume. I have buckets of other games for when I want to wear 'thot' armor.
But in the end I personally don't mind having both in a game. It's just that when you have both the demand for the 'thot' armor goes up drastically compared to the nonsexualized and the devs rightfully make the business decision to invest in the cosmetics that sell best. Intrepid is already taking a stance by saying no in the first place. It's harder to resist greed when the results are more tangible. But hey if they did manage to 'keep producing both types despite that' more of my money to them.
I agree on this part, the "bikini" armour should be cosmetic, but the more realistic gear should actually be the main equipment you find in the world.
However, "bikini" armour shouldn't be store only cosmetics obviously, so there is some source of it from pure gameplay xD
I strongly disagree. If it isn't in store only it's going to be wildly popular in cities and pollute the over all world feel. Im ok with this, but only if it means the devs are getting paid for said pollution. I have other games I can go to if I want to see hundreds of dancing avatars in skimpy clothing.
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
Hmm pollute isn't quite the right word yes. I was honestly saying it to tease George. I meant more so that, ashes has clearly started their over all intention for how they want cosmetics to feel relative to this topicl, bikini armor would go against that. Im generally fine with most things that break the asthetic intended if you are willing to pay for them to limit the effect on the populations over all asthetic.
As I have said multiple times in this thread I don't mind said armor. I play other games that have that asthetic and enjoy myself in those spaces. I have made no claims on the opinions of others.
And since it is a side bar I put this at the bottom, but in what way are tuxedos and bikini armor not equal in terms of 'not achieving ashes announced asthetic'
The only unfitting cosmetics are tuxedos etc, that you can see far too much in FF14 and BDO. Bikini is probably a mild drop. It still looks high fantasy and still fits aesthetics. It's only really bad if it's the only female armour available, but Interpid clearly knows this sort of thing should be cosmetic only and THAT is the right direction. Tho, like I said before, gladiator armour can stay as it often is seen in games etc 😆
What are your opinions of the second pic in the gladiator set above btw?
Both armours are something I would expect of gladiator armour. Probably the leather one would be more accurate, but that would vary. Haven't revised ancient history enough ngl
As long as Intrepid provides a broad spectrum of armor styles and cuts, I don’t really care. If female players feel they can have their toon reflect their aesthetic to the degree male players can - great.
As long as Intrepid provides a broad spectrum of armor styles and cuts, I don’t really care. If female players feel they can have their toon reflect their aesthetic to the degree male players can - great.
Speaking about "immersion" and so "roleplay" while considering that "too much sexyness" is "not immersiv" is... stupid. (yes, i refer to the mention from steven about "immersion issue")
and i mean for both female and man... In our days we speak a lot about "woman objectification" and "overly sexualised woman" with the counter attack "i am a girl and i want my avatar to be sexy as fuck" ... We also forget Strong, muscular men, some woman can fantasize about and could like to see.
"bikini armor is not realist". In med-fan universe there is one kind of character who always don't care about anykind of armor, they get clothes more for decency than anything else : the monks. Also, mage/archer with clothes or light leather armor have near to useless armor (an arrow pass thru those really easily... and against a big morgenstern, it is not a light leather which protect...).
So "immersion" ... again... so easy to use it just to say "hey, you see, i have strong argument".
1) Immersion is for roleplay.
Sexyness is part of roleplay... our characters are not only warrior in need of blood... They are also social people. and you don't dance in taverne after a glorious victory with a full plate armor ! No, you get with fancy clothes, Female with deep cleavage, or nude nostril. Men with their shirt which is open on their pectorals...
The simple fact that roleplay does not stop to "KILL THEM" make "sexyness" good for immersion
But i speak about roleplaystuff, could be some cosmetic things that can never be applied to fighting stuff. Just there for roleplay !
2) Now lets speak about war !
"So you are in favor of bikini armor ? ... Not in all game. In a "Conan-like" universe i am totally in favor of it ! For Ashes ? maybe not.
But need some feminine armor (be it full plate, chainmail, leather, or clothes) and "unisex" armor. Feminine armor are never realist, but stop saying "lol, those boobies breastplate make it easier to hit with sword" even if it is totally true. we are in a world where magic is everywhere... How would it be impossible that with some magic enhancement, it is as efficient than a "realist" armor ? Same fit for some cleavage.
My own immersion would be increased with such variety... Seeing female with unisex, with boobiebreastplate, and with little cleavage (up to aribeth maybe?). But not "more"
Why "a little and not lot, while you have nothing against bikini armor in another universe"
Aesthetic Consistency...
While having variety is in favor of my immersion (allowing each male and each female to reflect its personnality/mentality also thru its aesthetic choice) too much range of variety can become problematic... In games i want more a global aesthetic consistency than high quality graphics.
And i think that Ashes fit more on "full armor" side than "bikini armor" side
Conclusion : a spot for each thing.
"total" sexyness can have a place in AOC, but limited to out of combat things. lets get fancy clothes. dancing dress, noble and elegant dress to those totally showing legs.
And have consistency with armor... but be sure to allow a large variety of mentality to be shown thru armor. We are in fantasy, reality is not the only rule which define what protect a character... magical enhancement helps !
Bikini armor maybe not
But as a female, or male, you should be able to show of the female/male form in a sexual way if you want to.
Cleavage and tight fitting armor is fine. If your character wants to dress sexy, that should be available, but not down to Asian string bikini level.
As much as I love attractive looking characters I feel that AoC is better served by more pragmatic style of armors, meaning NO to boobplates as well. In keeping with overall setting.
I also think that cat girls in FF are absolutely awesome though. And perhaps some sort of civilian cloths which would be worn in cities or safe areas and be easily switchable via one button or something may provide various options for players of various persuasions and still be somewhat in keeping with the setting.
People, given the choice, want to look attractive over not being attractive. Now the definition of what people feel is most attractive is a bit different. However, a lot of folk set a lot of emphasis on sexual appeal as well. Cool, I like pretty sights too. I just wouldn't want that to come at expense of suspension of disbelief though.
So I've been showing this game to my wife. We play some games together but she only likes to play "hot girl characters". When we play League of Legends, she refuses to play "ugly champions" even if they are really good lol. So when I showed her some armor set images from AoC, she immediately asked "where's the hot girl armor?" I know AoC isn't going to have Hyper Sexualized armor, and that's fine, but will girls have some sort of flattering armor sets? Despite some people's beliefs, it's not just guys that want sexy female characters to look at. Just as some of us guys want to play the super ripped heroic fighter, our wives/girlfriends/female players want to be sexy. Any info or screenshots of such armor? Thanks!
Yes there is cosmetics you can buy and earn in-game currently planned as a system. So even if you don't like the clunky armor style, there will be attractive female gear you will inevitably find at some point.
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
Total agreement. Feels like Ashes is doing a bit better than New World on that front but I feel like there’s someone with some level of authority or influence with the design/art department that is extremely prudish or feminist (the type that is actually anti feminist and wants women to look masculine and/or plain).
Feather ruffling time! I hope they don’t appeal only to the medieval realism nerds who shudder at the thought of cleavage. Let the realism fanatics wear realistic armor, and let the people who want a fashionable or “sexy” character have their way too. Make more money on the cash shop that way.
It sounds like we are in agreement even if your comment about feminists was mildly rude (not because what you said was rude, but you assume the person in NW 'wants them' to look x, rather than 'have the freedom to look x given that society always pushes towards a certain way.') But I am not offended so don't worry about it.
I think stuff closer to the overly sexualized spectrum stuff should probably cost more/not be as prominent quantity wise though (and even if they aren't I am not gunna cry about it.) Otherwise the current unique fine balance of Ashes has currently been striking will inevitably be erased because sex sells. I've found the current direction quite refreshing.
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
Total agreement. Feels like Ashes is doing a bit better than New World on that front but I feel like there’s someone with some level of authority or influence with the design/art department that is extremely prudish or feminist (the type that is actually anti feminist and wants women to look masculine and/or plain).
Feather ruffling time! I hope they don’t appeal only to the medieval realism nerds who shudder at the thought of cleavage. Let the realism fanatics wear realistic armor, and let the people who want a fashionable or “sexy” character have their way too. Make more money on the cash shop that way.
It sounds like we are in agreement even if your comment about feminists was mildly rude (not because what you said was rude, but you assume the person in NW 'wants them' to look x, rather than 'have the freedom to look x given that society always pushes towards a certain way.') But I am not offended so don't worry about it.
I think stuff closer to the overly sexualized spectrum stuff should probably cost more/not be as prominent quantity wise though (and even if they aren't I am not gunna cry about it.) Otherwise the current unique fine balance of Ashes has currently been striking will inevitably be erased because sex sells. I've found the current direction quite refreshing.
Wasn’t trying to be rude, totally get that it’s something people get super offended by the mere mention of though.
Also I was talking about someone at Intrepid not someone who worked on New World, though maybe they have a similar issue.
I’m totally fine with the sexualized stuff being cash shop only. I just want to have it available at all. The “realism” people, more like medieval fans, get tons of options but god forbid they see the female form in their game. I keep hoping to see something come out in the monthly cosmetic packs, but so far it’s almost always some form of medieval or dread-knight style. Recent exceptions include the mushroom set and last months leafy set. But look at this month, again it’s another dread style.
And don’t get me wrong, this months looks pretty cool and I’m probably buying it. I’ve bought several monthly sets. But it’s been very saturated and the other issue is these styles nearly always look the same between the male and female armor.
This thread is actually something that I have seen be an issue in New World as well, but it's even worse over there. They basically went so far down the gender neutral route they over-corrected and now literally everyone in the game looks like a dude until you do a very, very close up look of their faces. From the Cosmetic sets we see and a few of the models we have been shown I don't see ashes making the same mistake... as much. I understand the refusal to over-sexualize women in our fantasy game, that's fine they want to keep things from being sexual.
There is however a difference between feminine charm and lustful over-sexualization and I hope that we can strike a balance without going down the stupid route New World has chosen.
Total agreement. Feels like Ashes is doing a bit better than New World on that front but I feel like there’s someone with some level of authority or influence with the design/art department that is extremely prudish or feminist (the type that is actually anti feminist and wants women to look masculine and/or plain).
Feather ruffling time! I hope they don’t appeal only to the medieval realism nerds who shudder at the thought of cleavage. Let the realism fanatics wear realistic armor, and let the people who want a fashionable or “sexy” character have their way too. Make more money on the cash shop that way.
It sounds like we are in agreement even if your comment about feminists was mildly rude (not because what you said was rude, but you assume the person in NW 'wants them' to look x, rather than 'have the freedom to look x given that society always pushes towards a certain way.') But I am not offended so don't worry about it.
I think stuff closer to the overly sexualized spectrum stuff should probably cost more/not be as prominent quantity wise though (and even if they aren't I am not gunna cry about it.) Otherwise the current unique fine balance of Ashes has currently been striking will inevitably be erased because sex sells. I've found the current direction quite refreshing.
Wasn’t trying to be rude, totally get that it’s something people get super offended by the mere mention of though.
Also I was talking about someone at Intrepid not someone who worked on New World, though maybe they have a similar issue.
I’m totally fine with the sexualized stuff being cash shop only. I just want to have it available at all. The “realism” people, more like medieval fans, get tons of options but god forbid they see the female form in their game. I keep hoping to see something come out in the monthly cosmetic packs, but so far it’s almost always some form of medieval or dread-knight style. Recent exceptions include the mushroom set and last months leafy set. But look at this month, again it’s another dread style.
And don’t get me wrong, this months looks pretty cool and I’m probably buying it. I’ve bought several monthly sets. But it’s been very saturated and the other issue is these styles nearly always look the same between the male and female armor.
Yeah np. I don't feel the same way irt the armor looking the same, but we probably just have different cue recognition.
I’m totally fine with the sexualized stuff being cash shop only. I just want to have it available at all. The “realism” people, more like medieval fans, get tons of options but god forbid they see the female form in their game.
Agreed. From everything I've gleaned about Steve, he's not going to put anything exploitive out there in his game. The T maturity rating will probably also keep the folks with hang ups around sexiness / sex from bombarding the operational support lines.
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CypherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I’m totally fine with the sexualized stuff being cash shop only. I just want to have it available at all. The “realism” people, more like medieval fans, get tons of options but god forbid they see the female form in their game.
Agreed. From everything I've gleaned about Steve, he's not going to put anything exploitive out there in his game. The T maturity rating will probably also keep the folks with hang ups around sexiness / sex from bombarding the operational support lines.
Lol probably. I completely forgot about the rating info. I hope they lean into an M rating, as typically an MMO is already not going to be geared for children to begin with. Not to say they can’t enjoy one, or be mature enough for one. But I think the game could be much better in multiple regards with an M. Those regards include the armors we’re discussing, as well as the corruption story line, the enemies, blood, Witcher-esque quests, etc. Imagine 😀
@Cypher - Yeah, I think you & I are in close agreement on this thread. Looks like Intrepid is waffling on T /M ESRB rating. I'd much rather this be an M rating so the game/world/player-base can avoid the 'think of the children' crowd.
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CypherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Cypher - Yeah, I think you & I are in close agreement on this thread. Looks like Intrepid is waffling on T /M ESRB rating. I'd much rather this be an M rating so the game/world/player-base can avoid the 'think of the children' crowd.
Like my character in FFXIV is a female ninja who is fully armored, but under the helm she's a cutie. (Yes i play female characters, im a degen)
Like when we discovered than the hero in metroid was a blond cutie we all know very well now.
Such kind of scenery is really sexy yep !
Also on the other side, sometime, trying to get sexy, you fail and fall in vulgar... (and vulgar is probably the less sexy thing)
This is also where the "slutmog" with some bikini chainmail and kind of shit is to avoid... It is easy past a point to fall in vulgarity...
@Cypher - Yeah, I think you & I are in close agreement on this thread. Looks like Intrepid is waffling on T /M ESRB rating. I'd much rather this be an M rating so the game/world/player-base can avoid the 'think of the children' crowd.
MMORPG are not really fitted for T players... and i think it is a genre that should by default be M :
It is probably (when the game is good) the most time consuming genre, and having teenage people falling in such trap is bad thing i think. (easy to get in kind of addictiv way to play the game...)
Also a game like AoC with its mindset is totally not fitted for teenage people. So aiming for them is just a mistake... Avoiding swearing in NPC dialogue for the T ESRB will just make less dimension, variety between NPC (a veteran sergent will be more brutal vulgar in words, like scientific will have more class. and there is lot more differences with lot more NPC. not using all vocabular avaible, even some slur language will limit way to mark it.)
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. For us who aren't religiously repressed, we celebrate sexuality and beautiful designs. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
It has nothing to do with 'religious oppression' or ' being uncomfortable with beauty or sexuality' for me. Wot. I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. For us who aren't religiously repressed, we celebrate sexuality and beautiful designs. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
It has nothing to do with 'religious oppression' or ' being uncomfortable with beauty or sexuality' for me. Wot. I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
You're right, my post comes off as inflammatory and I didn't mean it that way. We all have tastes and opinions, and they're all valid. I'll edit my post. Apologies.
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. For us who aren't religiously repressed, we celebrate sexuality and beautiful designs. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
It has nothing to do with 'religious oppression' or ' being uncomfortable with beauty or sexuality' for me. Wot. I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
You're right, my post comes off as inflammatory and I didn't mean it that way. We all have tastes and opinions, and they're all valid. I'll edit my post. Apologies.
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
That’s an excellent point. All the people who are against alluring armor/clothing like to say “bUt SkImPy ArMoR wOnT pRoTeCt YoU” uhmmmm neither will robes so “protection” is a total straw man.
That, combined with the idea that this is a fantasy game where you can literally summon black holes or meteors and drop them on someone’s head and not have them die immediately shuts them down. There’s no reason not to have the alluring, hot armors.
Extra note for anyone reading, because I think some people also get confused by this, hence why they always go to the “bikini plate” argument: I can’t speak for everyone but when I say “armor” I mean any outfit set that you’d take into combat whether it’s robes, leather, plate, etc I just call it all “armor” because it’s a simply catch all.
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. For us who aren't religiously repressed, we celebrate sexuality and beautiful designs. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
I have no other games that are worth playing today or viable to play that have this. Ashes will be the only MMO for me and I want to enjoy how my character looks. Happy you have so many options, I don’t. Feel free to share some titles that are still viable to play (and not dead or a PvP only game) to this day that have this.
Comments
We can agree to disagree. If female players choose to go for bikini armour, let them. Locking this sort of cosmetics is stupid regardless of how ppl might look at it. And considering female players do like dressing in such a way, pay walling it is pointless. Just don't make it the actual gear appearance... unless some sort of gladiator armour, since I would assume it would look like gladiator armour.
Pollute doesn't really fit that definition. You say that as if it's a bad thing. A bad thing are furries. Bikini armour is just a style. Hell, worse is being able to wear a tuxedo as your armor cosmetic. THAT would be closer to polluting than some bikini armour. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other female players don't. And you can't say they won't because you aren't the other female players.
Hmm pollute isn't quite the right word yes. I was honestly saying it to tease George. I meant more so that, ashes has clearly started their over all intention for how they want cosmetics to feel relative to this topicl, bikini armor would go against that. Im generally fine with most things that break the asthetic intended if you are willing to pay for them to limit the effect on the populations over all asthetic.
As I have said multiple times in this thread I don't mind said armor. I play other games that have that asthetic and enjoy myself in those spaces. I have made no claims on the opinions of others.
And since it is a side bar I put this at the bottom, but in what way are tuxedos and bikini armor not equal in terms of 'not achieving ashes announced asthetic'
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
I’m not entirely sure how you thought my post was a reply to yours but to clarify, no it wasn’t. I think your idea was a good one.
The only unfitting cosmetics are tuxedos etc, that you can see far too much in FF14 and BDO. Bikini is probably a mild drop. It still looks high fantasy and still fits aesthetics. It's only really bad if it's the only female armour available, but Interpid clearly knows this sort of thing should be cosmetic only and THAT is the right direction. Tho, like I said before, gladiator armour can stay as it often is seen in games etc 😆
What are your opinions of the second pic in the gladiator set above btw?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Total agreement. Feels like Ashes is doing a bit better than New World on that front but I feel like there’s someone with some level of authority or influence with the design/art department that is extremely prudish or feminist (the type that is actually anti feminist and wants women to look masculine and/or plain).
Feather ruffling time! I hope they don’t appeal only to the medieval realism nerds who shudder at the thought of cleavage. Let the realism fanatics wear realistic armor, and let the people who want a fashionable or “sexy” character have their way too. Make more money on the cash shop that way.
No. Almost none of the images posted in this thread are from AoC.
Both armours are something I would expect of gladiator armour. Probably the leather one would be more accurate, but that would vary. Haven't revised ancient history enough ngl
^ this pretty much.
Just dont paywall 1 style
and i mean for both female and man... In our days we speak a lot about "woman objectification" and "overly sexualised woman" with the counter attack "i am a girl and i want my avatar to be sexy as fuck" ... We also forget Strong, muscular men, some woman can fantasize about and could like to see.
"bikini armor is not realist". In med-fan universe there is one kind of character who always don't care about anykind of armor, they get clothes more for decency than anything else : the monks. Also, mage/archer with clothes or light leather armor have near to useless armor (an arrow pass thru those really easily... and against a big morgenstern, it is not a light leather which protect...).
So "immersion" ... again... so easy to use it just to say "hey, you see, i have strong argument".
1) Immersion is for roleplay.
Sexyness is part of roleplay... our characters are not only warrior in need of blood... They are also social people. and you don't dance in taverne after a glorious victory with a full plate armor ! No, you get with fancy clothes, Female with deep cleavage, or nude nostril. Men with their shirt which is open on their pectorals...
The simple fact that roleplay does not stop to "KILL THEM" make "sexyness" good for immersion
But i speak about roleplaystuff, could be some cosmetic things that can never be applied to fighting stuff. Just there for roleplay !
2) Now lets speak about war !
"So you are in favor of bikini armor ? ... Not in all game. In a "Conan-like" universe i am totally in favor of it ! For Ashes ? maybe not.
But need some feminine armor (be it full plate, chainmail, leather, or clothes) and "unisex" armor. Feminine armor are never realist, but stop saying "lol, those boobies breastplate make it easier to hit with sword" even if it is totally true. we are in a world where magic is everywhere... How would it be impossible that with some magic enhancement, it is as efficient than a "realist" armor ? Same fit for some cleavage.
My own immersion would be increased with such variety... Seeing female with unisex, with boobiebreastplate, and with little cleavage (up to aribeth maybe?). But not "more"
Why "a little and not lot, while you have nothing against bikini armor in another universe"
Aesthetic Consistency...
While having variety is in favor of my immersion (allowing each male and each female to reflect its personnality/mentality also thru its aesthetic choice) too much range of variety can become problematic... In games i want more a global aesthetic consistency than high quality graphics.
And i think that Ashes fit more on "full armor" side than "bikini armor" side
Conclusion : a spot for each thing.
"total" sexyness can have a place in AOC, but limited to out of combat things. lets get fancy clothes. dancing dress, noble and elegant dress to those totally showing legs.
And have consistency with armor... but be sure to allow a large variety of mentality to be shown thru armor. We are in fantasy, reality is not the only rule which define what protect a character... magical enhancement helps !
But as a female, or male, you should be able to show of the female/male form in a sexual way if you want to.
Cleavage and tight fitting armor is fine. If your character wants to dress sexy, that should be available, but not down to Asian string bikini level.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
I also think that cat girls in FF are absolutely awesome though. And perhaps some sort of civilian cloths which would be worn in cities or safe areas and be easily switchable via one button or something may provide various options for players of various persuasions and still be somewhat in keeping with the setting.
People, given the choice, want to look attractive over not being attractive. Now the definition of what people feel is most attractive is a bit different. However, a lot of folk set a lot of emphasis on sexual appeal as well. Cool, I like pretty sights too. I just wouldn't want that to come at expense of suspension of disbelief though.
Like my character in FFXIV is a female ninja who is fully armored, but under the helm she's a cutie. (Yes i play female characters, im a degen)
Yes there is cosmetics you can buy and earn in-game currently planned as a system. So even if you don't like the clunky armor style, there will be attractive female gear you will inevitably find at some point.
Ok. Where do they come from, then... Deviantart? ArtStation?
It sounds like we are in agreement even if your comment about feminists was mildly rude (not because what you said was rude, but you assume the person in NW 'wants them' to look x, rather than 'have the freedom to look x given that society always pushes towards a certain way.') But I am not offended so don't worry about it.
I think stuff closer to the overly sexualized spectrum stuff should probably cost more/not be as prominent quantity wise though (and even if they aren't I am not gunna cry about it.) Otherwise the current unique fine balance of Ashes has currently been striking will inevitably be erased because sex sells. I've found the current direction quite refreshing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Wasn’t trying to be rude, totally get that it’s something people get super offended by the mere mention of though.
Also I was talking about someone at Intrepid not someone who worked on New World, though maybe they have a similar issue.
I’m totally fine with the sexualized stuff being cash shop only. I just want to have it available at all. The “realism” people, more like medieval fans, get tons of options but god forbid they see the female form in their game. I keep hoping to see something come out in the monthly cosmetic packs, but so far it’s almost always some form of medieval or dread-knight style. Recent exceptions include the mushroom set and last months leafy set. But look at this month, again it’s another dread style.
And don’t get me wrong, this months looks pretty cool and I’m probably buying it. I’ve bought several monthly sets. But it’s been very saturated and the other issue is these styles nearly always look the same between the male and female armor.
Yeah np. I don't feel the same way irt the armor looking the same, but we probably just have different cue recognition.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Agreed. From everything I've gleaned about Steve, he's not going to put anything exploitive out there in his game. The T maturity rating will probably also keep the folks with hang ups around sexiness / sex from bombarding the operational support lines.
Lol probably. I completely forgot about the rating info. I hope they lean into an M rating, as typically an MMO is already not going to be geared for children to begin with. Not to say they can’t enjoy one, or be mature enough for one. But I think the game could be much better in multiple regards with an M. Those regards include the armors we’re discussing, as well as the corruption story line, the enemies, blood, Witcher-esque quests, etc. Imagine 😀
Great way to put it lol. I agree.
Like when we discovered than the hero in metroid was a blond cutie we all know very well now.
Such kind of scenery is really sexy yep !
Also on the other side, sometime, trying to get sexy, you fail and fall in vulgar... (and vulgar is probably the less sexy thing)
This is also where the "slutmog" with some bikini chainmail and kind of shit is to avoid... It is easy past a point to fall in vulgarity...
MMORPG are not really fitted for T players... and i think it is a genre that should by default be M :
It is probably (when the game is good) the most time consuming genre, and having teenage people falling in such trap is bad thing i think. (easy to get in kind of addictiv way to play the game...)
Also a game like AoC with its mindset is totally not fitted for teenage people. So aiming for them is just a mistake... Avoiding swearing in NPC dialogue for the T ESRB will just make less dimension, variety between NPC (a veteran sergent will be more brutal vulgar in words, like scientific will have more class. and there is lot more differences with lot more NPC. not using all vocabular avaible, even some slur language will limit way to mark it.)
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
It has nothing to do with 'religious oppression' or ' being uncomfortable with beauty or sexuality' for me. Wot. I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
You're right, my post comes off as inflammatory and I didn't mean it that way. We all have tastes and opinions, and they're all valid. I'll edit my post. Apologies.
No problem mate. Thanks for recognizing that.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
That’s an excellent point. All the people who are against alluring armor/clothing like to say “bUt SkImPy ArMoR wOnT pRoTeCt YoU” uhmmmm neither will robes so “protection” is a total straw man.
That, combined with the idea that this is a fantasy game where you can literally summon black holes or meteors and drop them on someone’s head and not have them die immediately shuts them down. There’s no reason not to have the alluring, hot armors.
Extra note for anyone reading, because I think some people also get confused by this, hence why they always go to the “bikini plate” argument: I can’t speak for everyone but when I say “armor” I mean any outfit set that you’d take into combat whether it’s robes, leather, plate, etc I just call it all “armor” because it’s a simply catch all.
I have no other games that are worth playing today or viable to play that have this. Ashes will be the only MMO for me and I want to enjoy how my character looks. Happy you have so many options, I don’t. Feel free to share some titles that are still viable to play (and not dead or a PvP only game) to this day that have this.