That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
That’s an excellent point. All the people who are against alluring armor/clothing like to say “bUt SkImPy ArMoR wOnT pRoTeCt YoU” uhmmmm neither will robes so “protection” is a total straw man.
That, combined with the idea that this is a fantasy game where you can literally summon black holes or meteors and drop them on someone’s head and not have them die immediately shuts them down. There’s no reason not to have the alluring, hot armors.
Extra note for anyone reading, because I think some people also get confused by this, hence why they always go to the “bikini plate” argument: I can’t speak for everyone but when I say “armor” I mean any outfit set that you’d take into combat whether it’s robes, leather, plate, etc I just call it all “armor” because it’s a simply catch all.
That's a shame. I hope that changes over time. For us who aren't religiously repressed, we celebrate sexuality and beautiful designs. Things don't need to be practical, especially when they are robes, leathers, or magic is involved.
I hope to see alluring sets for both men and women, in the future!
I simply have dozens of other games with it and a whopping 1 without (and even iceborn went that direction in the end.)
I have no other games that are worth playing today or viable to play that have this. Ashes will be the only MMO for me and I want to enjoy how my character looks. Happy you have so many options, I don’t. Feel free to share some titles that are still viable to play (and not dead or a PvP only game) to this day that have this.
Disclaimer I have no idea what you want from an mmo, but its not hard to find sexualized skimpy bikini armor in mmos. It's basically industry standard for video games. Things that I have personally enjoyed the cosmetics in that skew towards my personal perception of 'thot' armor. NeverWinter, Skyforge, and BDO just off the top of my head. Games that have a fair mix of both FFXIV (which I don't personally play because a different game fits what I want from it better.) Skyforge in particular has been decent gameplay to decent cosmetic ratio for me personally.
I think we are in similar positions. We both are currently looking for a game that fills all our niche desires. Therefore I will reiterate that my problem with sexualized stuff isnt the content itself (again I enjoy it to some degree.) It is that the other half of design gets neglected in favor of the more profitable sexualized stuff. Even when a game has good intentions, it starts skewing more and more that way over time, selling out their intended asthetic for 'what sells best.'
I don't blame them for doing so. They are a business. But the simplest way to prevent the demand is to just 'not go down that road to begin with.' This obviously has the flaw of you not getting things you would really like to see. I wish there was a way to balance the two truly and maybe Intrepid will succeed at that. I would be delighted for that to happen.
I think the best way to balance the two is to make the more popular to the general video game community stuff 'the paid for option.' It's not like they can get away with cash shop only armor development after all, given their started design goals.
But you already iterated you generally agree with me on this point. I am mostly reiterating a lot of this because my position is super nuanced compared to a yes no and I am used to vent misunderstood as a result.
I hope you get armor that your truly happy with if the game turns out to fill your needs, regardless of my own opinion.
Disclaimer I have no idea what you want from an mmo, but its not hard to find sexualized skimpy bikini armor in mmos. It's basically industry standard for video games. Things that I have personally enjoyed the cosmetics in that skew towards my personal perception of 'thot' armor. NeverWinter, Skyforge, and BDO just off the top of my head. Games that have a fair mix of both FFXIV (which I don't personally play because a different game fits what I want from it better.) Skyforge in particular has been decent gameplay to decent cosmetic ratio for me personally.
I think we are in similar positions. We both are currently looking for a game that fills all our niche desires. Therefore I will reiterate that my problem with sexualized stuff isnt the content itself (again I enjoy it to some degree.) It is that the other half of design gets neglected in favor of the more profitable sexualized stuff. Even when a game has good intentions, it starts skewing more and more that way over time, selling out their intended asthetic for 'what sells best.'
I don't blame them for doing so. They are a business. But the simplest way to prevent the demand is to just 'not go down that road to begin with.' This obviously has the flaw of you not getting things you would really like to see. I wish there was a way to balance the two truly and maybe Intrepid will succeed at that. I would be delighted for that to happen.
I think the best way to balance the two is to make the more popular to the general video game community stuff 'the paid for option.' It's not like they can get away with cash shop only armor development after all, given their started design goals.
But you already iterated you generally agree with me on this point. I am mostly reiterating a lot of this because my position is super nuanced compared to a yes no and I am used to vent misunderstood as a result.
I hope you get armor that your truly happy with if the game turns out to fill your needs, regardless of my own opinion.
I totally get that it's not hard to find. But it is hard to find a game that I actually care to play. The examples you gave:
NeverWinter I have not played but it's 8 years old and has barely 2,000 players.
SkyForge I tried a long time ago and if I recall it's basically a tab target game. It's also 6 years old and barely has 100 players. Black Desert I have a lot of experience with, and I use it as an example of how I want the combat, the character creation and the armors/outfits to be!
But BDO is a PvP game. There are no raids. The first-ever dungeon was just added recently, after several years. World bosses are a joke. Sailing isn't rewarding. The game is made for you to grind endlessly between PvP sessions or fall behind.
That's why I say there isn't anything currently worth playing that gives the type of styles we're talking about. I do agree with you that "thot" armor should be cash shop only, but I think there's still a bit of misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with any of the screenshots that I'm about to link being part of the game without having to spend money. There is nothing inappropriate about any of these styles and I'm advocating for this stuff to be in the base game, and maybe some more "thotty" stuff in the cash shop I guess.
Hopefully that's still in line with your wishes. Here are those examples I mentioned of what kind of things should be in-game, not cash shop (You may have seen this in my previous post way back on page 2):
Disclaimer I have no idea what you want from an mmo, but its not hard to find sexualized skimpy bikini armor in mmos. It's basically industry standard for video games. Things that I have personally enjoyed the cosmetics in that skew towards my personal perception of 'thot' armor. NeverWinter, Skyforge, and BDO just off the top of my head. Games that have a fair mix of both FFXIV (which I don't personally play because a different game fits what I want from it better.) Skyforge in particular has been decent gameplay to decent cosmetic ratio for me personally.
I think we are in similar positions. We both are currently looking for a game that fills all our niche desires. Therefore I will reiterate that my problem with sexualized stuff isnt the content itself (again I enjoy it to some degree.) It is that the other half of design gets neglected in favor of the more profitable sexualized stuff. Even when a game has good intentions, it starts skewing more and more that way over time, selling out their intended asthetic for 'what sells best.'
I don't blame them for doing so. They are a business. But the simplest way to prevent the demand is to just 'not go down that road to begin with.' This obviously has the flaw of you not getting things you would really like to see. I wish there was a way to balance the two truly and maybe Intrepid will succeed at that. I would be delighted for that to happen.
I think the best way to balance the two is to make the more popular to the general video game community stuff 'the paid for option.' It's not like they can get away with cash shop only armor development after all, given their started design goals.
But you already iterated you generally agree with me on this point. I am mostly reiterating a lot of this because my position is super nuanced compared to a yes no and I am used to vent misunderstood as a result.
I hope you get armor that your truly happy with if the game turns out to fill your needs, regardless of my own opinion.
I totally get that it's not hard to find. But it is hard to find a game that I actually care to play. The examples you gave:
NeverWinter I have not played but it's 8 years old and has barely 2,000 players.
SkyForge I tried a long time ago and if I recall it's basically a tab target game. It's also 6 years old and barely has 100 players. Black Desert I have a lot of experience with, and I use it as an example of how I want the combat, the character creation and the armors/outfits to be!
But BDO is a PvP game. There are no raids. The first-ever dungeon was just added recently, after several years. World bosses are a joke. Sailing isn't rewarding. The game is made for you to grind endlessly between PvP sessions or fall behind.
That's why I say there isn't anything currently worth playing that gives the type of styles we're talking about. I do agree with you that "thot" armor should be cash shop only, but I think there's still a bit of misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with any of the screenshots that I'm about to link being part of the game without having to spend money. There is nothing inappropriate about any of these styles and I'm advocating for this stuff to be in the base game, and maybe some more "thotty" stuff in the cash shop I guess.
Hopefully that's still in line with your wishes. Here are those examples I mentioned of what kind of things should be in-game, not cash shop (You may have seen this in my previous post way back on page 2):
Yeah given your notes in other threads it seems you want a pretty specific game experience. I on the other hand need like three things in AoC to be happy (a good farming system, summoner to work a certain way, and root motion attacks.) However Costume aesthetic means quite a lot to me. I'm a bit of a costume fanatic so 'what stuff' are available disproportionately affects my fun.
Alright. I assume you want my feedback on these. If not please note I am only giving my opinion and not trying to impose my standards on your taste....
The first one seems a bit much. It's extremely ornate for starters. A much less detailed one probably would make more sense for in game. It looks fairly ornamental/costumey over all. If it had more outer thigh protection it'd probably get no complaints from me if it was in game as legendary armor. It feels closer to BDO's asthetic over all.
I appreciate a little more realism than you so the second one secondly veers into 'thot' territory for me due to the lack of chainmail. But I think that's a personal style opinion. I just simply strongly dislike 'exposed chest' to that degree as battle armor. Would make a cool vampire costume though.
The pirate one is definitely the one I would say is cosmetic shop only if it were up to me. Hands down.
Other than the extreme proportions on some of the rest, I think those are perfectly in line with ashes aesthetic. The last one is a little on the edge for me, but not quite. Battle mages gotta get cool stuff right? That's about it from me.
I think I detailed my own personal standards earlier in the thread if you wanna know why.
Weirdly enough, the first thing which got my attention is those god awful pouldrons designed to help kill it's wearer by catching a blade and directing it to the flesh rather then deflecting as what pouldrons should do.
If we remove stuff like boobplate, can we also remove illogical fantasy stuff too?
Cash shops in subscription games is cringe. Knock it off.
As for armor, options is always good. Lighter armor can get away with showing a bit more skin but obviously plate is meant to protect so....
Ah I so love when people have a long careful nuanced debate in a thread with people showing vulnerability on both sides to eventually be met with a newcomer who has clearly not read the thread.
But alright mate. The reason for cash shops is because some people want things that don't quite fit the games aesthetic, but are still acceptable to the designers and community. Are you going to deny people thematic or stylistic costumes not easily accessible or appropriate to the setting and games style just because you 'don't like cash shops in a subscription game'?
Steven started playing MMORPGs when he was 7, so... Most likely he will go for a Teen rating.
Going for teen is a huge waste of potential, especially if self published. It cuts down on a lot of things you can use in games so they shouldve just gone for an 18 rating or something... but that's opinion based probably
Steven started playing MMORPGs when he was 7, so... Most likely he will go for a Teen rating.
Going for teen is a huge waste of potential, especially if self published. It cuts down on a lot of things you can use in games so they shouldve just gone for an 18 rating or something... but that's opinion based probably
I tend to appreciate M ratings for more story driven games. A sand box is community created story and is better off not getting too 'mature' (or immature in terms of moderation.) Meanwhile an M rating never seems to deter younger people from actually playing (GTA series comes to mind.) Sandboxes are always really hard to rate once you get past children vs not
Supposing any of the armor items on here get approved, how much time would be required to put them into the game? Would the material they're made to appear to be of have make the work easier or harder?
0
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
GTA
*whew*
I heard some nightmare stories from the elementary school playground!!!
0
Options
CypherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah given your notes in other threads it seems you want a pretty specific game experience. I on the other hand need like three things in AoC to be happy (a good farming system, summoner to work a certain way, and root motion attacks.) However Costume aesthetic means quite a lot to me. I'm a bit of a costume fanatic so 'what stuff' are available disproportionately affects my fun.
Yeah, I do. I've played enough games to know what I would want from a "perfect" game. Unfortunately, I'm not a loaded multimillionaire like Steven so I can't make my own dream game. But I can be vocal and try to help shape this one, especially because it already has the perfect core concepts.
Top of my list for the game to do better/do right are combat (we might agree on that too), female armor style (from cloth to light, medium, and heavy armors), and guild features. That's why those are the main topics I make sure to post on. Not so much guild topics as we haven't seen anything really yet but I've posted some desires in one or two guild threads. The rest of the game seems like it's going how I'd want it to go for the most part. Anyways, back on topic from here on!
Alright. I assume you want my feedback on these. If not please note I am only giving my opinion and not trying to impose my standards on your taste....
The first one seems a bit much. It's extremely ornate for starters. A much less detailed one probably would make more sense for in game. It looks fairly ornamental/costumey over all. If it had more outer thigh protection it'd probably get no complaints from me if it was in game as legendary armor. It feels closer to BDO's asthetic over all.
I appreciate a little more realism than you so the second one secondly veers into 'thot' territory for me due to the lack of chainmail. But I think that's a personal style opinion. I just simply strongly dislike 'exposed chest' to that degree as battle armor. Would make a cool vampire costume though.
The pirate one is definitely the one I would say is cosmetic shop only if it were up to me. Hands down.
Other than the extreme proportions on some of the rest, I think those are perfectly in line with ashes aesthetic. The last one is a little on the edge for me, but not quite. Battle mages gotta get cool stuff right? That's about it from me.
Well these are just images pulled from google to convey a style. I don't want to nitpick the details of them. There are things I would change too but the point is there is nothing in this vein available in Ashes so far. And I wouldn't call any of it "thot" armor. Look up Tera Online and then get back to me lmao. I don't want Tera stuff in Ashes any more than you I'm guessing.
About the second one though, I really can't see what's wrong with that set exactly how it is and calling it "light armor". People who want to totally cover up in chain-mail or plate-mail can have "heavy armor". The lighter the armor, the more revealing it can be if you ask me. Already confirmed these armor tiers will be a thing.
As for armor, options is always good. Lighter armor can get away with showing a bit more skin but obviously plate is meant to protect so....
I agree, and in the case of a fantasy game rather than medieval simulator we can get away with some flair. Some artistic liberty. No reason we can't have a bit of both worlds. You use what you want, let me use what I want.
Weirdly enough, the first thing which got my attention is those god awful pouldrons designed to help kill it's wearer by catching a blade and directing it to the flesh rather then deflecting as what pouldrons should do.
If we remove stuff like boobplate, can we also remove illogical fantasy stuff too?
Well, again as I've said above: I didn't design these, they're simply examples of style I want to see. And by your logic we should also strip the game of every other fantasy aspect since you can't suspend your disbelief in a video game. "Alright Steven it's a wrap, scrap 90% of the abilities of the game because it's illogical to drop a meteor on someone's head (And have them survive it!?!?!)." Totally incredulous.
Can't wait to see the male versions of those thigh-high high-heels.
Especially on a male Ren'Kai.
I know you joke, but that's literally the point I've been making with the monthly cosmetics: most of them are being made the same for male and female. Their female armor is just a little slimmer usually. I'm proposing more armors where the male and female versions actually are pretty different while still clearly being the same set. The way you feel about wanting your character to look however you want is the way I feel here with what mine can wear, except in my case I'm not asking for anything insane like Tera BS.
Supposing any of the armor items on here get approved, how much time would be required to put them into the game? Would the material they're made to appear to be of have make the work easier or harder?
Can't be any harder or more time-consuming than all the other sets they're churning out. Again, not asking for any of these to be approved. These are examples of desired style. Intrepid releases a new cosmetic set concept every single month in addition to all the armors that will be free to earn in the game, so you tell me if they'll have an issue. I hope the monthly cosmetics go down to quarterly honestly, but not before putting in a few months of sets with good female styles.
Phew! This was quite the project doing all these replies but it's refreshing to be discussing on this forum rather than fighting! =D
Yeah given your notes in other threads it seems you want a pretty specific game experience. I on the other hand need like three things in AoC to be happy (a good farming system, summoner to work a certain way, and root motion attacks.) However Costume aesthetic means quite a lot to me. I'm a bit of a costume fanatic so 'what stuff' are available disproportionately affects my fun.
Yeah, I do. I've played enough games to know what I would want from a "perfect" game. Unfortunately, I'm not a loaded multimillionaire like Steven so I can't make my own dream game. But I can be vocal and try to help shape this one, especially because it already has the perfect core concepts.
Top of my list for the game to do better/do right are combat (we might agree on that too), female armor style (from cloth to light, medium, and heavy armors), and guild features. That's why those are the main topics I make sure to post on. Not so much guild topics as we haven't seen anything really yet but I've posted some desires in one or two guild threads. The rest of the game seems like it's going how I'd want it to go for the most part. Anyways, back on topic from here on!
Alright. I assume you want my feedback on these. If not please note I am only giving my opinion and not trying to impose my standards on your taste....
The first one seems a bit much. It's extremely ornate for starters. A much less detailed one probably would make more sense for in game. It looks fairly ornamental/costumey over all. If it had more outer thigh protection it'd probably get no complaints from me if it was in game as legendary armor. It feels closer to BDO's asthetic over all.
I appreciate a little more realism than you so the second one secondly veers into 'thot' territory for me due to the lack of chainmail. But I think that's a personal style opinion. I just simply strongly dislike 'exposed chest' to that degree as battle armor. Would make a cool vampire costume though.
The pirate one is definitely the one I would say is cosmetic shop only if it were up to me. Hands down.
Other than the extreme proportions on some of the rest, I think those are perfectly in line with ashes aesthetic. The last one is a little on the edge for me, but not quite. Battle mages gotta get cool stuff right? That's about it from me.
Well these are just images pulled from google to convey a style. I don't want to nitpick the details of them. There are things I would change too but the point is there is nothing in this vein available in Ashes so far. And I wouldn't call any of it "thot" armor. Look up Tera Online and then get back to me lmao. I don't want Tera stuff in Ashes any more than you I'm guessing.
About the second one though, I really can't see what's wrong with that set exactly how it is and calling it "light armor". People who want to totally cover up in chain-mail or plate-mail can have "heavy armor". The lighter the armor, the more revealing it can be if you ask me. Already confirmed these armor tiers will be a thing.
We can both agree Terra cosmetics are 'a bit much' and I say that as someone who does like a lot of even BDO's 'thot' level stuff.
Yeah I think the second one is by far my bias showing the strongest. Sorry if it sounded like I was nitpicking too hard I just have extremely specific opinions on a lot of aspects about cosmetics. I can get a little overfocused when giving my opinion. Other than the pirate one I generally agree with you irt them not being 'thot' level. We definitely have slightly different thresholds it sounds like, but not irreconcilable.
I am curious what sort of adjustments you would like made to the past pre,order costumes to fit closer to your desired aesthetic or even past ones that you thought were close with a bit more tweaking would also be cool to know. (I would link them here myself but I haven't figured out bbc images yet. Please teach me your witchcraft in pm if you don't mind >.>;;;)
Phew! This was quite the project doing all these replies but it's refreshing to be discussing on this forum rather than fighting! =D
Yeah given your notes in other threads it seems you want a pretty specific game experience. I on the other hand need like three things in AoC to be happy (a good farming system, summoner to work a certain way, and root motion attacks.) However Costume aesthetic means quite a lot to me. I'm a bit of a costume fanatic so 'what stuff' are available disproportionately affects my fun.
Yeah, I do. I've played enough games to know what I would want from a "perfect" game. Unfortunately, I'm not a loaded multimillionaire like Steven so I can't make my own dream game. But I can be vocal and try to help shape this one, especially because it already has the perfect core concepts.
Top of my list for the game to do better/do right are combat (we might agree on that too), female armor style (from cloth to light, medium, and heavy armors), and guild features. That's why those are the main topics I make sure to post on. Not so much guild topics as we haven't seen anything really yet but I've posted some desires in one or two guild threads. The rest of the game seems like it's going how I'd want it to go for the most part. Anyways, back on topic from here on!
Alright. I assume you want my feedback on these. If not please note I am only giving my opinion and not trying to impose my standards on your taste....
The first one seems a bit much. It's extremely ornate for starters. A much less detailed one probably would make more sense for in game. It looks fairly ornamental/costumey over all. If it had more outer thigh protection it'd probably get no complaints from me if it was in game as legendary armor. It feels closer to BDO's asthetic over all.
I appreciate a little more realism than you so the second one secondly veers into 'thot' territory for me due to the lack of chainmail. But I think that's a personal style opinion. I just simply strongly dislike 'exposed chest' to that degree as battle armor. Would make a cool vampire costume though.
The pirate one is definitely the one I would say is cosmetic shop only if it were up to me. Hands down.
Other than the extreme proportions on some of the rest, I think those are perfectly in line with ashes aesthetic. The last one is a little on the edge for me, but not quite. Battle mages gotta get cool stuff right? That's about it from me.
Well these are just images pulled from google to convey a style. I don't want to nitpick the details of them. There are things I would change too but the point is there is nothing in this vein available in Ashes so far. And I wouldn't call any of it "thot" armor. Look up Tera Online and then get back to me lmao. I don't want Tera stuff in Ashes any more than you I'm guessing.
About the second one though, I really can't see what's wrong with that set exactly how it is and calling it "light armor". People who want to totally cover up in chain-mail or plate-mail can have "heavy armor". The lighter the armor, the more revealing it can be if you ask me. Already confirmed these armor tiers will be a thing.
Sorry if it sounded like I was nitpicking too hard I just have extremely specific opinions on a lot of aspects about cosmetics. I can get a little overfocused when giving my opinion. Other than the pirate one I generally agree with you irt them not being 'thot' level. We definitely have slightly different thresholds it sounds like, but not irreconcilable.
I am curious what sort of adjustments you would like made to the past pre,order costumes to fit closer to your desired aesthetic or even past ones that you thought were close with a bit more tweaking would also be cool to know. (I would link them here myself but I haven't figured out bbc images yet. Please teach me your witchcraft in pm if you don't mind >.>;;;)
Oh not at all, you were totally fine I thought. I just wanted to clarify that those are by no means perfect but do convey the general idea lol. If I'm being honest I'm not even the biggest fan of the pirate one, but the two on the right of it are all part of the same image and since they're all part of the same game and I'd be fine with all 3 I figured what the heck haha.
Look out for a PM from me, I'll happily help you figure out posting images. =D
Cloth and leather armor showing some skin doesn't bother me too much. It can definitely be over-sexualized though, and often is. What really friggin annoys me are high heels. Seriously! Who in the ever-living f... think going around outdoors on beaches and in mud and on mountains in high heels is a good thing. And then fighting in those environments?
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
Cloth and leather armor showing some skin doesn't bother me too much. It can definitely be over-sexualized though, and often is. What really friggin annoys me are high heels. Seriously! Who in the ever-living f... think going around outdoors on beaches and in mud and on mountains in high heels is a good thing. And then fighting in those environments?
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
If it's a rogue or assassin class that's constantly moving around, sure, you can maybe twist it with the fact that their naturally high agility makes that possible. It stretches belief but fine, fair enough.
But a tank? Bracing for huge hits in heels? Not happening, no thank you.
Grilled cheese always tastes better when you eat it together!
0
Options
CypherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Cloth and leather armor showing some skin doesn't bother me too much. It can definitely be over-sexualized though, and often is. What really friggin annoys me are high heels. Seriously! Who in the ever-living f... think going around outdoors on beaches and in mud and on mountains in high heels is a good thing. And then fighting in those environments?
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
Lmao! That was great. Seriously though, I honestly don't have an issue with them if they fit the outfit. I really don't care if it makes total sense in combat or not. Would like some variety. Specifically would like to see pumps and ankle boots (for clarity these are feminine boots that have a very thick heel, usually taller than a work boot but shorter than a high-heel/stiletto. Would have zero issues bracing for attacks in them.) and some options similar to the photos posted above.
Has anyone talked about how historical armor not having breast cups may have been caused by a possible lack of need for such armors and an increase in crafting difficulty?
What I mean is that in a pinch, "if" a woman did need to dawn armor for some reason. I am sure people knew it would fit, but the fit might not have been ideal. Still, it would do the job of adding some protection, even if uncomfortable.
Then there is the part where sizing and shaping breast cups into armor may have been totally possible, but would also potentially be so much extra work that no blacksmith ever bothered. I am sure taboo played a large role too.
What I am saying is that maybe the armors did not exist historically because there was no need for them to drive that innovation. Maybe in a parallel universe's past, watching females joust became popular and there were all sorts of extravagant female armors?
armore are not totally flat for a simple reason : deflecting the weapon.
Armore where designed to have the sword hitting it, but mostly not in perpendicular way, and this little angle was enough to reduce the pressure of the blade on the armor => you "lost" some of the strength of the strike like this.
Boobplate would be 2 semi spherical, but not sending sword to the outside but the middle.
So in realism, yes, boobplate was not good idea.
But, too much realisme kills fantasy. For this i don't think that immersion is bind to how much realistic things are. Some people can "lose" their immersion because the woman they speak with have boobplate, but are totally fine with the fact she is... 1 thousand year old . . . The difference ? Psychological.
Cloth and leather armor showing some skin doesn't bother me too much. It can definitely be over-sexualized though, and often is. What really friggin annoys me are high heels. Seriously! Who in the ever-living f... think going around outdoors on beaches and in mud and on mountains in high heels is a good thing. And then fighting in those environments?
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
Many a good Korean mmo costume ruined by high heel only footwear.
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think typically once the model is designed for high heels, all of the footwear for that model has to have high heals. The model will always be on its toes with the heels off the ground.
0
Options
CypherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think typically once the model is designed for high heels, all of the footwear for that model has to have high heals. The model will always be on its toes with the heels off the ground.
That’s not the case. Quickest example that comes to mind is Vindictus. You can mix and match armor pieces and your character will adjust to heels or no heels. They aren’t still on their toes if you switch to sandals for example. Pretty sure this was also the case with BDO.
1
Options
mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Eh, some armor had codpieces. Pretty sure it was possible and would have been done if someone with the money wanted the appearance.
The argument that it would funnel the strike is a little silly. it's not like if a blade hit the armor straight on, the armor would shatter. Also, if a weapon hit a cup, then a bunch of force would still be absorbed by the cup before the weapon was "funneled" to the chest.
There is also the fact that some armor had a narrow waist.
If cups on a breast plate would guide the strike to the center and compromise the armor's effective ness, then the same would happen to the waist of these armors.
Just because you can't find evidence of something being done in history doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it was never done.
1
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2021
I think Vindictus might be cheating.
I think BDO might be cheating, too.
I'd have to actually test it (instead of scrolling through images and vids) to be sure... but we can assume you're right for now.
Cloth and leather armor showing some skin doesn't bother me too much. It can definitely be over-sexualized though, and often is. What really friggin annoys me are high heels. Seriously! Who in the ever-living f... think going around outdoors on beaches and in mud and on mountains in high heels is a good thing. And then fighting in those environments?
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
I'm more confused as to why women in high heels are supposedly more attractive. I usually just cringe at how bad it is for the feet 😅
Eh, some armor had codpieces. Pretty sure it was possible and would have been done if someone with the money wanted the appearance.
The argument that it would funnel the strike is a little silly. it's not like if a blade hit the armor straight on, the armor would shatter. Also, if a weapon hit a cup, then a bunch of force would still be absorbed by the cup before the weapon was "funneled" to the chest.
There is also the fact that some armor had a narrow waist.
If cups on a breast plate would guide the strike to the center and compromise the armor's effective ness, then the same would happen to the waist of these armors.
Just because you can't find evidence of something being done in history doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it was never done.
I certainly don't want to see that sort of ugly plate armour. This looks like some abomination given like by Frankenstien
Comments
Disclaimer I have no idea what you want from an mmo, but its not hard to find sexualized skimpy bikini armor in mmos. It's basically industry standard for video games. Things that I have personally enjoyed the cosmetics in that skew towards my personal perception of 'thot' armor. NeverWinter, Skyforge, and BDO just off the top of my head. Games that have a fair mix of both FFXIV (which I don't personally play because a different game fits what I want from it better.) Skyforge in particular has been decent gameplay to decent cosmetic ratio for me personally.
I think we are in similar positions. We both are currently looking for a game that fills all our niche desires. Therefore I will reiterate that my problem with sexualized stuff isnt the content itself (again I enjoy it to some degree.) It is that the other half of design gets neglected in favor of the more profitable sexualized stuff. Even when a game has good intentions, it starts skewing more and more that way over time, selling out their intended asthetic for 'what sells best.'
I don't blame them for doing so. They are a business. But the simplest way to prevent the demand is to just 'not go down that road to begin with.' This obviously has the flaw of you not getting things you would really like to see. I wish there was a way to balance the two truly and maybe Intrepid will succeed at that. I would be delighted for that to happen.
I think the best way to balance the two is to make the more popular to the general video game community stuff 'the paid for option.' It's not like they can get away with cash shop only armor development after all, given their started design goals.
But you already iterated you generally agree with me on this point. I am mostly reiterating a lot of this because my position is super nuanced compared to a yes no and I am used to vent misunderstood as a result.
I hope you get armor that your truly happy with if the game turns out to fill your needs, regardless of my own opinion.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
I totally get that it's not hard to find. But it is hard to find a game that I actually care to play. The examples you gave:
NeverWinter I have not played but it's 8 years old and has barely 2,000 players.
SkyForge I tried a long time ago and if I recall it's basically a tab target game. It's also 6 years old and barely has 100 players. Black Desert I have a lot of experience with, and I use it as an example of how I want the combat, the character creation and the armors/outfits to be!
But BDO is a PvP game. There are no raids. The first-ever dungeon was just added recently, after several years. World bosses are a joke. Sailing isn't rewarding. The game is made for you to grind endlessly between PvP sessions or fall behind.
That's why I say there isn't anything currently worth playing that gives the type of styles we're talking about. I do agree with you that "thot" armor should be cash shop only, but I think there's still a bit of misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with any of the screenshots that I'm about to link being part of the game without having to spend money. There is nothing inappropriate about any of these styles and I'm advocating for this stuff to be in the base game, and maybe some more "thotty" stuff in the cash shop I guess.
Hopefully that's still in line with your wishes. Here are those examples I mentioned of what kind of things should be in-game, not cash shop (You may have seen this in my previous post way back on page 2):
Yeah given your notes in other threads it seems you want a pretty specific game experience. I on the other hand need like three things in AoC to be happy (a good farming system, summoner to work a certain way, and root motion attacks.) However Costume aesthetic means quite a lot to me. I'm a bit of a costume fanatic so 'what stuff' are available disproportionately affects my fun.
Alright. I assume you want my feedback on these. If not please note I am only giving my opinion and not trying to impose my standards on your taste....
The first one seems a bit much. It's extremely ornate for starters. A much less detailed one probably would make more sense for in game. It looks fairly ornamental/costumey over all. If it had more outer thigh protection it'd probably get no complaints from me if it was in game as legendary armor. It feels closer to BDO's asthetic over all.
I appreciate a little more realism than you so the second one secondly veers into 'thot' territory for me due to the lack of chainmail. But I think that's a personal style opinion. I just simply strongly dislike 'exposed chest' to that degree as battle armor. Would make a cool vampire costume though.
The pirate one is definitely the one I would say is cosmetic shop only if it were up to me. Hands down.
Other than the extreme proportions on some of the rest, I think those are perfectly in line with ashes aesthetic. The last one is a little on the edge for me, but not quite. Battle mages gotta get cool stuff right? That's about it from me.
I think I detailed my own personal standards earlier in the thread if you wanna know why.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
As for armor, options is always good. Lighter armor can get away with showing a bit more skin but obviously plate is meant to protect so....
Weirdly enough, the first thing which got my attention is those god awful pouldrons designed to help kill it's wearer by catching a blade and directing it to the flesh rather then deflecting as what pouldrons should do.
If we remove stuff like boobplate, can we also remove illogical fantasy stuff too?
Ah I so love when people have a long careful nuanced debate in a thread with people showing vulnerability on both sides to eventually be met with a newcomer who has clearly not read the thread.
But alright mate. The reason for cash shops is because some people want things that don't quite fit the games aesthetic, but are still acceptable to the designers and community. Are you going to deny people thematic or stylistic costumes not easily accessible or appropriate to the setting and games style just because you 'don't like cash shops in a subscription game'?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Especially on a male Ren'Kai.
A dwarf could pull it off.
Going for teen is a huge waste of potential, especially if self published. It cuts down on a lot of things you can use in games so they shouldve just gone for an 18 rating or something... but that's opinion based probably
I tend to appreciate M ratings for more story driven games. A sand box is community created story and is better off not getting too 'mature' (or immature in terms of moderation.) Meanwhile an M rating never seems to deter younger people from actually playing (GTA series comes to mind.) Sandboxes are always really hard to rate once you get past children vs not
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
*whew*
I heard some nightmare stories from the elementary school playground!!!
Yeah, I do. I've played enough games to know what I would want from a "perfect" game. Unfortunately, I'm not a loaded multimillionaire like Steven so I can't make my own dream game. But I can be vocal and try to help shape this one, especially because it already has the perfect core concepts.
Top of my list for the game to do better/do right are combat (we might agree on that too), female armor style (from cloth to light, medium, and heavy armors), and guild features. That's why those are the main topics I make sure to post on. Not so much guild topics as we haven't seen anything really yet but I've posted some desires in one or two guild threads. The rest of the game seems like it's going how I'd want it to go for the most part. Anyways, back on topic from here on!
Well these are just images pulled from google to convey a style. I don't want to nitpick the details of them. There are things I would change too but the point is there is nothing in this vein available in Ashes so far. And I wouldn't call any of it "thot" armor. Look up Tera Online and then get back to me lmao. I don't want Tera stuff in Ashes any more than you I'm guessing.
About the second one though, I really can't see what's wrong with that set exactly how it is and calling it "light armor". People who want to totally cover up in chain-mail or plate-mail can have "heavy armor". The lighter the armor, the more revealing it can be if you ask me. Already confirmed these armor tiers will be a thing.
Well cash shop is already confirmed for this game so...cringe away if you want. Lol.
I agree, and in the case of a fantasy game rather than medieval simulator we can get away with some flair. Some artistic liberty. No reason we can't have a bit of both worlds. You use what you want, let me use what I want.
Well, again as I've said above: I didn't design these, they're simply examples of style I want to see. And by your logic we should also strip the game of every other fantasy aspect since you can't suspend your disbelief in a video game. "Alright Steven it's a wrap, scrap 90% of the abilities of the game because it's illogical to drop a meteor on someone's head (And have them survive it!?!?!)." Totally incredulous.
I know you joke, but that's literally the point I've been making with the monthly cosmetics: most of them are being made the same for male and female. Their female armor is just a little slimmer usually. I'm proposing more armors where the male and female versions actually are pretty different while still clearly being the same set. The way you feel about wanting your character to look however you want is the way I feel here with what mine can wear, except in my case I'm not asking for anything insane like Tera BS.
Can't be any harder or more time-consuming than all the other sets they're churning out. Again, not asking for any of these to be approved. These are examples of desired style. Intrepid releases a new cosmetic set concept every single month in addition to all the armors that will be free to earn in the game, so you tell me if they'll have an issue. I hope the monthly cosmetics go down to quarterly honestly, but not before putting in a few months of sets with good female styles.
Phew! This was quite the project doing all these replies but it's refreshing to be discussing on this forum rather than fighting! =D
We can both agree Terra cosmetics are 'a bit much' and I say that as someone who does like a lot of even BDO's 'thot' level stuff.
Yeah I think the second one is by far my bias showing the strongest. Sorry if it sounded like I was nitpicking too hard I just have extremely specific opinions on a lot of aspects about cosmetics. I can get a little overfocused when giving my opinion. Other than the pirate one I generally agree with you irt them not being 'thot' level. We definitely have slightly different thresholds it sounds like, but not irreconcilable.
I am curious what sort of adjustments you would like made to the past pre,order costumes to fit closer to your desired aesthetic or even past ones that you thought were close with a bit more tweaking would also be cool to know. (I would link them here myself but I haven't figured out bbc images yet. Please teach me your witchcraft in pm if you don't mind >.>;;;)
Right? Lol.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Oh not at all, you were totally fine I thought. I just wanted to clarify that those are by no means perfect but do convey the general idea lol. If I'm being honest I'm not even the biggest fan of the pirate one, but the two on the right of it are all part of the same image and since they're all part of the same game and I'd be fine with all 3 I figured what the heck haha.
Look out for a PM from me, I'll happily help you figure out posting images. =D
Magic, dragons, never having to poo or pee, sure, whatevs, it's a game. But high heels in combat? Hell no.
If it's a rogue or assassin class that's constantly moving around, sure, you can maybe twist it with the fact that their naturally high agility makes that possible. It stretches belief but fine, fair enough.
But a tank? Bracing for huge hits in heels? Not happening, no thank you.
Lmao! That was great. Seriously though, I honestly don't have an issue with them if they fit the outfit. I really don't care if it makes total sense in combat or not. Would like some variety. Specifically would like to see pumps and ankle boots (for clarity these are feminine boots that have a very thick heel, usually taller than a work boot but shorter than a high-heel/stiletto. Would have zero issues bracing for attacks in them.) and some options similar to the photos posted above.
What I mean is that in a pinch, "if" a woman did need to dawn armor for some reason. I am sure people knew it would fit, but the fit might not have been ideal. Still, it would do the job of adding some protection, even if uncomfortable.
Then there is the part where sizing and shaping breast cups into armor may have been totally possible, but would also potentially be so much extra work that no blacksmith ever bothered. I am sure taboo played a large role too.
What I am saying is that maybe the armors did not exist historically because there was no need for them to drive that innovation. Maybe in a parallel universe's past, watching females joust became popular and there were all sorts of extravagant female armors?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Armore where designed to have the sword hitting it, but mostly not in perpendicular way, and this little angle was enough to reduce the pressure of the blade on the armor => you "lost" some of the strength of the strike like this.
Boobplate would be 2 semi spherical, but not sending sword to the outside but the middle.
So in realism, yes, boobplate was not good idea.
But, too much realisme kills fantasy. For this i don't think that immersion is bind to how much realistic things are. Some people can "lose" their immersion because the woman they speak with have boobplate, but are totally fine with the fact she is... 1 thousand year old . . . The difference ? Psychological.
Many a good Korean mmo costume ruined by high heel only footwear.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
That’s not the case. Quickest example that comes to mind is Vindictus. You can mix and match armor pieces and your character will adjust to heels or no heels. They aren’t still on their toes if you switch to sandals for example. Pretty sure this was also the case with BDO.
The argument that it would funnel the strike is a little silly. it's not like if a blade hit the armor straight on, the armor would shatter. Also, if a weapon hit a cup, then a bunch of force would still be absorbed by the cup before the weapon was "funneled" to the chest.
There is also the fact that some armor had a narrow waist.
If cups on a breast plate would guide the strike to the center and compromise the armor's effective ness, then the same would happen to the waist of these armors.
Just because you can't find evidence of something being done in history doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it was never done.
I think BDO might be cheating, too.
I'd have to actually test it (instead of scrolling through images and vids) to be sure... but we can assume you're right for now.
I'm more confused as to why women in high heels are supposedly more attractive. I usually just cringe at how bad it is for the feet 😅
I certainly don't want to see that sort of ugly plate armour. This looks like some abomination given like by Frankenstien
Anyone with any weapon would break him like a twig lol