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The worst possible feature in this game is the corruption

IkcenIkcen Member
edited May 2020 in General Discussion
I can tell now, the corruption feature is completely broken. Let say, and it is a common case, some player kills another who grief and ks the mobs. Now let see how that PK penalty will work. The player who is flagged have the choice to die, or to die multiple times. So in fact the player who griefs wins. I saw exactly the same feature in many games - L2 after GoD, L2 Classic, BDO and etc. In every game the result was death of OW PvP. Many players left cause they feel frustrated they cannot protect from griefers. And above all some players do intentional griefing. I call that feature the gank of the loser. And if this thing exists here, I will simply not play AOC, as I already played BDO - good looking, but terrible game.

If you want to reduce the ganking, this is not the way to do it. There are multiple different mechanisms, that will not be exploited so much.

One simple exploit - I want a boss, or mobs, or anything in the game for OW PvE. What I have to do is to let another player, or players to gank me, so to insult them, or to ks, or to grief. Then I will take what I want, as when they PK me, they lost the case.

One possible way to reduce the ganking is a similar karma system - so the PKer is flagged for 5-10 min, but he accumulates PKs. And he needs to clean them by doing things that brings him exp and ingame money, for free. So 1 - 3 PKs random - 1-3 hour grind. 4-6 PKs - random 2-6 hours grind. Also loss of fighting abilities/items if the character has/dies with 6PKs and more.
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Comments

  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    So, no the corruption system isn't entirely broken.

    You are free to attack any player you want in the world.
    Attacking someone does not give you corruption

    So, if you attack someone and you lose, you die and you get a 50% death penalty

    If you attack someone and you win:
    If they fought back, they were a combatant and they take a 50% death penalty and you get no corruption
    If they didn't fight back, they were non-combatant and they take a 100% death penalty and you do get corruption

    Now, this entire concept that you "own" the mobs, you don't. The mobs are out there in the free world. Unless your guild owns a castle, technically no land belongs do you. The mobs are free game, from the lowliest chicken to the mightiest dragon, every mob is fair game and fair claim.

    So I'm going to start from the position that you didn't actually understand the corruption system.

    Moving on from that, they do not want senseless and random killing. They want meaningful PvP. That's why they have the Areans, Node Sieges, Node Wars, Guild Wars, Castle Sieges, the Enemy of the State Mechanic and most importantly the Caravan System. There is going to be more than enough meaningful PvP to be had that you don't need to worry about killing the guy grinding on mobs near you, or the guy picking flowers. Its a big world. Go somewhere else.

    Finally your simple exploit, it doesn't work. They don't need to kill you. Why would they kill you?

    If they did Kill you, you are dead, you have to respawn, you have to travel back.

    You might want to get educated on the systems before you just spout randomness about the system. You actually have to understand it before you critique it.
    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Idk if i'm understanding the OP point of view but wouldn't this be fixed if exp gained is equal to all parties? As for items gained, make it split between players or parties. In that case the 'gank and steal farming spot' becomes the 'thanks for helping me farm' situation. In terms of boss fights be it overworld or dungeon bosses, correct me if i''m wrong but that is a part of the meaningful pvp so killing other players to steal boss loot for your own party is perfectly acceptable imo..

    Someone more knowledgeable can correct me but that is how i understand it
    Where there is light, there is shadow. I am the shadow without the light. The shadow of nothingness. The VoidShadow
  • flameh0tflameh0t Member, Braver of Worlds
    Ikcen wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Idk if i'm understanding the OP point of view but wouldn't this be fixed if exp gained is equal to all parties? As for items gained, make it split between players or parties. In that case the 'gank and steal farming spot' becomes the 'thanks for helping me farm' situation. In terms of boss fights be it overworld or dungeon bosses, correct me if i''m wrong but that is a part of the meaningful pvp so killing other players to steal boss loot for your own party is perfectly acceptable imo..

    Someone more knowledgeable can correct me but that is how i understand it

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

    It is simply terrible. And believe me, it will be better if the OW PvP is forbidden. At least nobody will troll you to exploit the system.

    It's okay to be a pussy, I will just take all your stuff.
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited May 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    You do not "own" the mobs, but you should be able to protect your spot. How will you feel if I come and say piss off noob, this is mine? And with the current corruption system if my class is slightly better in PvE, I can do it, and you have to leave. Is this a good game?

    Why do you have to leave? You can stay and get some mobs rather than leave and get none.
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited May 2020
    I'm not sure I completely understand what OP is posting, but here is what I think is being talked about. So let's say Player A is grinding mobs in a certain spot and Player B comes along and tries to "KS" and talks trash to Player A. Player A may become annoyed and flag and attack Player B. Since Player B's goal seems to be that they want control over that mob grinding spot it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't fight back (other wise they'd die and have to run all the way back and run into the same problem of having Player A in the spot). So is Player B fights back against Player A they both become "combatants" while in battle. Regardless if A kills B or B kills A the victor will remain a "combatant" until they kill someone who isn't fighting back.

    But according to the title the issue is with corruption so let's take a closer look at that. Player A attacks Player B, but Player B doesn't fight back and instead let's themselves die. Player A is now corrupted. If Player B was "KSing" and taunting player in order to get Player A to turn corrupted I'm not sure where the benefit lies with Player B? They can now call for reinforcements to kill Player A without becoming corrupted themselves? If that's what they wanted then they could've done that from the beginning without letting themselves die anyways.

    I mean from the link you posted yourself this image sums up how a person gains corruption in general:
    pvp_flagging_diagram.png


    Unless I'm misunderstanding this doesn't seem like BDO's system (I played it too and dealt with all that hot mess)

    Jahlon wrote: »
    Now, this entire concept that you "own" the mobs, you don't. The mobs are out there in the free world. The mobs are free game, from the lowliest chicken to the mightiest dragon, every mob is fair game and fair claim

    Also, this. Except the part about lowly chickens. If you touch my precious bebe birds I'll slaughter you all.

    Sure, when a person comes into the same spot you're grinding it can be annoying, but you don't own that spot. If you want to risk getting corruption or combat status because you don't want to/can't share a zone that's on you. Not the game.

  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Well if they do it, they will get the penalty, and they have to die. But yes you got the point.
    This is a MMO, it is not 1vs1 game. Still If I want to troll you, cause I'm bored, I can exploit the current system. This is simply trolling, as if you PK, you lose.
    The worse scenario - I come back and PK you as you lost fighting abilities, but also you will lose items.
    Even worse case - I work with some mates. So you, or even your party is screwed.


    I'm not sure how someone would "exploit" the system? The only way a person would become corrupted is if they attack AND KILL a person who is not attacking. If Player B has been trolling Player A and also doesn't attack back either Player B is making a choice at that point to become corrupted, which puts the fault on Player B. If I were being attacked by a "griefer" or "troll" and they obviously weren't fighting back I would just retain my combatant status and let them live as they clearly are trying to troll you into killing them.

    The only benefit of intentionally griefing someone is to make them become corrupted so that way they can drop items and such the next time you kill them. Even if someone flags themselves as a combatant the worst that could happen is the die and lose some exp and durability. If the griefer kills them again they can just remain as a non-combatant knowing that Player A is a troll causing Player A to become corrupted.

    And as for having 1v1 in an MMO there are a lot of ways to play the game. I mean there are whole competitions and contests of 1v1 in MMO's. Just because there are a lot of people doesn't mean everyone likes to play in groups. Some people prefer to be stealthy and find unwilling victims or go bounty hunting. An MMO means massively multiplayer so there will be a massive amount of ways that all of those people play the same game.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    The problem here is you cannot even protect the spot. If you attack and the other player does not retaliate you lose. And in fact you may die multiple times.

    Again, a player does not own a spot. If someone else comes to grind in that spot you can either deal with it, aka "sharing", or you can fight them for it. The only way it negatively impacts you is if you kill them and they don't fight back, but again all you have to do is stop fighting them and leave yourself as a "combatant" rather than corrupted.


    I think I'm getting confused on how someone would "troll" a person into becoming corrupted. It seems like a very specific and rare situation that this would happen.



  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2020
    I played Lineage2.
    Corruption works
    /thread
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    So, the OP wants to have corruption taken out of the game. Then, there is no way to stop the griefers. This makes the game unplayable for many people.

    If the corruption system is so bad, please, oh game developer, what system have you created to stop griefing? And in what game can we find it so we can see how it is?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    You do not "own" the mobs, but you should be able to protect your spot.
    Why should you be able to?

    In games without PvP, you can't do anything. In Ashes, this is an option - but so is killing that player and taking the hit in corruption, if that player doesn't fight back.

    The problem here isn't with the corruption system, it is with your assumption that PvP should be used to sort out minor issues like this - when in fact it shouldn't.

    If you start to think of non-PvP ways of dealing with these situations, then you'll soon see that there is nothing wrong with the corruption system.
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Ikcen wrote: »
    If I combine the insults and the griefing, then what will you do? They maybe not exactly insults. Just ugly questions.

    I know how I will react. I will be angry.

    Also you imagine a pretty empty game. If AOC becomes popular, it will be overcrowded. There will be queue for entering into the game. Maybe even hours. And the competition for every mob will be fearsome.

    Then what will you do when someone starts to KS?

    The fact is I have experience with that system, while you do not.

    If you get angry from strangers talking smack or being annoying that's on you. I've played enough games and dealt with enough internet trolls to know how to ignore people. If people act like trolls that's fine, it won't bother me. If people make comments that break TOS I'll just report it and continue to play. Not everyone is going to start fighting because people called them names.

    And I don't imagine AOC to be an empty game? But with how big the map is and with how much the development team will be monitoring the game I HIGHLY doubt that (excluding launch day) there will ever be "queues for hours" because that's less about popularity and more about server management at that point. And if there is competition for "every" mob that is once again server management.

    I've already said I don't let kill stealing bother me a couple of times already. I've dealt with it a ton in other games. I'll either ask the person if they are there for a quest or to grind and if I need to I'll just move to another spot. It's not a big deal to me.

    And not sure what makes you think I don't have experience with a corruption system? Literally said earlier I used to play Black Desert, and yes I know all about their issues. But even the article you posted gave alternatives to deal with griefers.

    These are my thoughts and this is how I play games. So please stop making assumptions about peoples play styles or history.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2020
    "I gathered materials for 3 weeks to craft my gear. If I PK that bow wielding mage wearing heavy armor fishing over there and get killed while corrupted there is high chance to lose part of it and 100% chance to drop part of the rest of my inventory. Let's go mildly incovenience someone."

    Nobody cares to grief you. Get off your high horse.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    If I say I did things with you mother - you will be pissed. Or really bad curses about you family. But this is the worst case.

    The common case is - you play with some slower PvEr, like a tank. Or you are in party with some newbies. So I come with a mage, start to kill literally all mobs. This is a common case. Then what will you do?

    If I combine the insults and the griefing, then what will you do? They maybe not exactly insults. Just ugly questions.

    I know how I will react. I will be angry.
    It is probably worth noting that ashes is being made as an adults game, not a childs game.

    Behavior like this in adults is, well, odd.

    If you don't know my mother, yet find reason to make comments about her, why would that bother me? You are clearly attempting to get a reaction from me, and I stopped letting people goad this kind of thing out of me back when I was about 13.

    If you started saying things along these lines, I'm far more likely to learn where you have your freehold, siege that node and make sure to rampage through and destroy that freehold of yours when we win that siege.

    Then I'd make a point of ensuring that the node you are in is unable to level up, limiting your options for housing and services. Having a guild that is always looking for things to do together, this kind of thing is easy.

    I'd also make a point of finding out if you hire people to protect your caravans, or if you are in a guild that helps you. Then I'd find a likely target and offer them a good amount of coin to keep me informed on when and where you are running caravans so I can be sure to always raid them.

    Lastly, I'd make a point of remaining at war with your guild and let them know that this is how things will be as long as you are a member. if my guild has declared war against your guild, we are able to kill each other without worrying about corruption at all, and that is exactly what we will do.

    See, the problem here is people thinking open PvP is in the game to solve issues.

    It isn't.

    The game has much deeper systems than open PvP, much better ways to solve issues, and much better ways to hurt people that act up in game.

    I will be able to do all of the above to you with you being completely unable to retaliate in any way - hell, you wouldn't even necessarily know someone was behind it all.
  • darthadendarthaden Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Your worry is only a concern if Ashes is a BDO style mindless grind the same rotation for 5 hours in a row type game. I for one don't think that's what Steven's vision is and I hope that's the case. running in circles killing mobs as they spawn is not innovative gameplay
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Oh look, "I don't like corruption, remove it!" thread #352. Thought the count would be higher by this point. You guys are slacking. Good thing the impotent rage is working. Oh wait...............
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    Ikcen wrote: »
    The common case is - you play with some slower PvEr, like a tank. Or you are in party with some newbies. So I come with a mage, start to kill literally all mobs. This is a common case. Then what will you do?

    Research and explore other spots where this happens less (the world is big), get more people to increase my party kill speed, go do other content and come back later, or just continue killing less mobs if that still fulfils my gathering/questing needs. It's not the end of the world; there are options.
  • WongWong Member, Intrepid Pack
    He called my momma fat so i will PK him and blame that on the corruption system.
    Seriously? Are you 12?
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Jamation wrote: »
    These are my thoughts and this is how I play games. So please stop making assumptions about peoples play styles or history.

    And where I did that?


    Sure thing. Here's a few examples:
    Ikcen wrote: »
    If I say I did things with you mother - you will be pissed.

    Nope. I don't know you. Say anything about my mother that you like. It doesn't mean anything.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Also you imagine a pretty empty game.

    Again, nope. Game will have a huge map so plenty of places to go do content.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    The fact is I have experience with that system, while you do not.

    Again, wrong. I have experience with similar systems. I do not see how this will be a problem for people who think before rushing around killing anyone near them.


    And here is an example in the very post asking where you made assumptions about people xD
    Ikcen wrote: »
    So you are stone cold with steel nerves.

    I'm not. I have emotions and feelings, but I'm not going to let a troll make me upset.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Now I want to explain to me how you will protect you farming spot in an overcrowded game with the current PK system?

    I have already answered this twice. Please refer to my previous replies for my answer.

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Oh no here we go again.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Oh no here we go again.

    It is pretty easy, answer to my questions and I will say there is not a problem. What will you do if other players start to ks? Why here will be different from L2 and BDO?

    why not use the forum search and find out yourself. I mean it's pretty easy to do.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
This discussion has been closed.