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NO ALTS!!

TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited August 2020 in General Discussion
Alright so I totally understand why Steven wants to lock players into single classes. He wants players to be recognized and known for their class however I think its a massive mistake and here is why.

As a content creator and even if you aren't a content creator your name is the most important thing you will ever wield in a game. Your name is your reputation and your branding. In every MMO I've ever played a major thing that always bothered me was Alts. Whenever I'm playing Alts I'm stuck using a different name on a different character and it sucks. Visibility, presense and name recognition is of paramount importance. Always seeing me online and involved in the community is empowering and motivating to everyone connected to my community. I want my name to be recognized everywhere I go. I'm one of those insane hardcore players that Maxes out an Alt for every single class in the game so I can learn, understand and exploit each classes weaknesses in PvP. Its the reason I was unbeatable for two years in WoW. In my opinion every single MMO in history has failed to recognize the importance of a players name. I want to achieve absolutely everything in the entire game on one character. I want to be every class. I want to be able to go back to my home base and switch my class to an alternate class and gear load out seamlessly just the way that I would change to an alt instantly so that I can constantly keep mastering and testing new endless things. Or maybe I had a bad night in dungeons and I'm just angry and want to go switch my class to something else and mindlessly grind my face off. Normally I would have to waste my time on an alt with a different stupid name that no one recognizes when they cross my path in the world. Why limit your hardcore player base that want to sink ungodly hours into the game to achieve things that most people don't care in the slightest about. Why do I need to play on alts if I want to master all of the professions. If people really want to sink that insane amount of time into the game to master and enjoy all that it has to offer why force people to do that on stupid alternate names and characters that no one knows when you can be known by everyone for always being online and recognized as the master that you truly are. Why limit the progression that an account can achieve. As a content creator is very important that I can play everything, experience everything, test everything even if it takes me years to do. I'm going to do it with alts anyways so why force me to do that when its unnecessary :)

Some people just want to lose themselves forever in an endless grind of seemingly unobtainable achievements and why would anyone want to stand in their way. Like an immortal vampire living through the ages to master everything that life has to master. Dare to go where no MMO has gone before. This is the game I would like to play :)

-Vash

Edit to answer common Fears:

Why not play an alt and use a Surname:
Because I don't want to segregate my accomplishments. I want my character to be the culmination of my achievements and I want people to see my name and immediately know my reputation as a character in this world. Surnames could be anyone who wants to steal your name but my name is my name and what I accomplish and the relationships and reputations I forge in the game means the world. Community is everything

I love alts and I want to play alternate role play personalities and/or not be recognized:
And you absolutely should be able to play an alt if that is what you love and what makes you happy. Just as I should be allowed to play one character instead. At the end of the day if my idea isn't implemented I'm going to have a million alts and master everything regardless to fulfill my need and the only difference is that this is game is going to an inferior product to one that would have instead given us that choice to play the way we want to play. A name matters and the relationships you form matter. Alts take away from that connection which is why alts should be a choice

Why would anyone want to master every class and profession:
Because that is what elite obsessed no lifers do my friend. Its what makes us feel satisfaction. What makes us feel accomplished. Makes us feel powerful and proud and allows us to challenge, compare to our peers which pushes us to be the best that we can be. Isn't it enough that gamers have to deal with being judged in real life. Do we really need to justify what makes us happy in the online space of our peers where we are all a bunch of gamer nerds. We should be supporting each other and make a point to be understanding when someone says they love or want something. If my idea isn't hurting anyone then why does anyone care

This idea will ruin player interdependence and the trade market:
That is just silly. Of course it won't. Players are going to play alts no matter what. They are going to master every class and every profession. Its only a matter of time. My idea isn't going to change that fact at all. What my idea does accomplish is create a vastly superior system of convenience but also a character that you are infinitely more connected to and invested in. The greater the investment the greater the feeling of pride and connection. This is what keeps hardcore players obsessed with a game. Always having another challenge to chase, another goal to conquer, another reason to keep on playing forever. The fact is that a player will be far more recognized by his name because he spent 100% of his play time invested and interacting with the community on that one character and this creates a more connected community and reputations and of course and better trade market built on reputation and trust. Everyone wins :)

But people are going to roll need on every piece of gear:
LOL... just no. Obviously it goes without saying that if you are playing a tank and you roll need on non tank gear then people stop playing with you forever because that is just nonsense unless you are playing just with your friends and they have no issue with it. That is what player name recognition is all about. Be a good person, become known for being a good person. Be a douche, be known for being a douche. There is no hiding behind an alt name when there is only one you. Reputation is everything <3

This will invalidate religions and allow you to skip content:
Of course not. Every time you switch to a new character class its basically the same as creating a brand new character that you have to start from the ground up. Its essentially creating an alt without fragmenting your accomplishments to your name and your account. The point is not to skip content. The point is to use one name to play the game an infinite number of different ways.

There is no way to Role play being able to switch classes or races:
Really? LOL We are in a world of magic. Travel to your castle. Go to your magic sanctum. Use your magical runestone of power to cast and enchantment containing all of your power and experiences so that you can magically create a new body for yourself with a new Race and class to travel world in search of new challenges and masteries. When you tire of that adventure return to your sanctum and use that enchanted Gemstone to reclaim your powers locking away your newly obtained class abilities within the gem for when you next desire. Role play is just you ability to tell a beautiful story :)

Why not just make it so that all your alts are actually a unified character with a single name(no surnames):
I totally agree 100% This is a genius idea that I wish I had thought of. Those who paid for early access to reserve a name get to use that name which is obviously a big deal for content creators and they get to attack the game with a million alts while always maintaining your name and your branding. This is the best idea I've seen so far. As a content creator the branding of a name is so huge <3
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Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Isn't this a thing in FF14?
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • That's a big nope. He also wants inter dependency to have a functioning player economy.
  • but... whats the point of learning a class and being valuable if someone can change class on the spur of the moment???
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    Judous wrote: »
    That's a big nope. He also wants inter dependency to have a functioning player economy.

    No I believe that to be just false. This doesn't harm the player economy in the slightest. People are going to do this regardless on alts and there is nothing you can do to control this. All you are limiting is the hardcore player base from becoming truly immersed and invested into the game. People who have name recognition and work together to actively trade and participate in the politics is what creates a truly amazing player economy :)
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    but... whats the point of learning a class and being valuable if someone can change class on the spur of the moment???

    Because if you learn a class and are valuable then you have learned a class and are valuable. You don't lose your spot unless someone else is doing it better. If someone takes your spot they are going to take it. Forcing them to take your spot on an alt doesn't change that you lost your spot. The only thing that changes is that everyone will recognize the name of the player who is achieving all of these things. People will eventually come to me for everything because they know that I will be able to do everything and fill every role. I would like to play a game where my name is always seen, known and hopefully loved for always being that guy who helps everyone :)
  • TeamVASH wrote: »
    No I believe that to be just false. This doesn't harm the player economy in the slightest. People are going to do this regardless on alts and there is nothing you can do to control this. All you are limiting is the hardcore player base from becoming truly immersed and invested into the game. People who have name recognition and work together to actively trade and participate in the politics is what creates a truly amazing player economy :)

    So you want to master all classes and professions on one character simply for the reputation? It's so silly..

    I make alts because I envision my Tank characters background different from my Clerics. Hardcore players will be just fine, it only affects people who want to be known as the guy who never logs off.
  • I like alts
  • Hurf DerfmanHurf Derfman Member
    edited August 2020
    Yes alts.

    That being said, all game systems, guilds families and housing should be linked to your account. Not to each alt you make.

    So my mage would be named Tim. Everybody would see Tim. But my account has a name too. So for this example it would be Tim@Hurf Derfman.
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    Judous wrote: »

    So you want to master all classes and professions on one character simply for the reputation? It's so silly..

    I make alts because I envision my Tank characters background different from my Clerics. Hardcore players will be just fine, it only affects people who want to be known as the guy who never logs off.

    Why on earth would you care what makes me happy if I'm not hurting anyone? That is a little bit hurtful and very unhelpful to this conversation. My name and reputation matters very much to me in game as in life. It just so happens that I am quite happily obsessive with everything I do and I want a game that allows me endless depth to explore and master. A name matters and I am certainly not the only person that would like to feel acknowledged for their accomplishments. Everyone does whether it be at work, in games, by friends or by family. I feel the drive to be thought well of so be it success or failure it is drives me to keep growing as a person and always do my best the best that I can be and to be known as a good person.

    If you want to make an alt then by all means alt to your hearts content. I accept and embrace your vision for your characters. Please do me the same courtesy <3
  • IMHO: the reason why this isn't for Ashes is because Ashes is a proper MMORPG game. Alts are a necessary part of balancing a complex game. I enjoyed played Mage in WoW because I could do literally anything except heal other players(durability, huge damage bursts, DoTs, kiting, Ice Block and Invisibility+ other supports[I was a big PvPer as well—all I did in the game really])—but I had my limits.

    No offence: IMHO I think the idea of changing the entire lore and skill-set behind the progression of an RPG character, is as asinine as offering level-50 tokens on the in-game store.

    I agree with your point on names 100%—it would be cool to universalize something about your alts.

    Maybe all of your other characters could somehow be identifiable in-game as the descendant (a '6th Family Slot') of your most accomplished character?
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    IMHO: the reason why this isn't for Ashes is because Ashes is a proper MMORPG game. Alts are a necessary part of balancing a complex game. I enjoyed played Mage in WoW because I could do literally anything except heal other players(durability, huge damage bursts, DoTs, kiting, Ice Block and Invisibility+ other supports[I was a big PvPer as well—all I did in the game really])—but I had my limits.

    No offence: IMHO I think the idea of changing the entire lore and skill-set behind the progression of an RPG character, is as asinine as offering level-50 tokens on the in-game store.

    I agree with your point on names 100%—it would be cool to universalize something about your alts.

    Maybe all of your other characters could somehow be identifiable in-game as the descendant (a '6th Family Slot') of your most accomplished character?

    I'm not understanding what you are not understanding. If you think that universal alt names are good then by association you think my idea is good. The only difference is that I want to play alts without switching to a character with a different name. What is the problem?
  • I read the OP as a troll, but in the case he is serious. Are you serious?

    I thought this was going to be a discussion about single character servers, and I would explain how they don't work, no one does them because they don't work. Players want alts, otherwise they will just get another account. Been there, done that.

    But, instead I read this as a: I want a "I win" button.
  • Okay, Vash. Your a great tank, come to my raid.

    Oh, he's now a rogue. Never mind.
  • InixiaInixia Member
    edited August 2020
    I actually like the decision to have players have defined/set classes.
    Defined classes give players a set personality/aesthetic, strengths and weaknesses that you can expect in pvp and set niches to work on in pve.

    I feel like something is lost in the immersion of the game when players can just nebulously change classes around to min/max or class select counterplay.
    What the op said about a name being important I absolutely agree with. But I think that name should come with a certain set of expectations. If I see someone on the battlefield that did a great job as a warrior build last game I want to have some reasonable expectation they are going to be a warrior this next fight and adapt. I like recognizing players in the pvp based on what they are doing with their unique classes. Changing too easily incentivizes flavor of the month selection imo and blurs class identity - everyone becomes a sort of single class that can do everything. And in raiding gear distribution, I think it tends to be fairer when a player is just 'needing' on gear they can use in their main role.

    But this is just my own opinion obviously - mainly I just think that stories are better when the characters have defined roles, and tradeoffs.
  • ReglonReglon Member
    edited August 2020
    Runescape has more player IGN recognition than any other MMO for the exact reason you mention, but everyone still has alts.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    TeamVASH wrote: »
    The only difference is that I want to play alts without switching to a character with a different name. What is the problem?
    Surely the best answer to this is to ask for surnames that are account exclusive.

    Then you can have Vash as your surname, and everyone will always recognise you. I mean, that should see you completely satisfied with what you want.

    The notion of alts though, that is something that many players enjoy greatly. Many players don't even have what many of us would call a main, they only have a stable of alts. Your suggestion - based purely on the title of the thread - would eliminate the game play value that these people see in it, and so shouldn't even be considered at all, let alone in the presence of far better alternative solutions.
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Kneczhevo wrote: »
    I read the OP as a troll, but in the case he is serious. Are you serious?

    I thought this was going to be a discussion about single character servers, and I would explain how they don't work, no one does them because they don't work. Players want alts, otherwise they will just get another account. Been there, done that.

    But, instead I read this as a: I want a "I win" button.

    All I know is that every game ever is the system you are describing. This system is just following the path that everyone is used to. All of those reasons you gave are things that many people will say but its not really true at all. How do I know? Because I've played every major MMO and the only people anyone ever remembers is the bosses, the content creators, the champions, the leaders, the PvP elites. Its never mattered what skills they brought to the table because all elite players play exactly the same. We all find the best tactics and slaughter everyone who hasn't found the best tactics. The only thing that matters is their name. I see a top opponents name and I respect their skill as the elite obsessed monster that we all are. All an alt does is makes you recognize players less often because you get to see alts instead. There is no immersion. Pretending that it blurs class selection is a crock and we all know it. Every top player has an alt for every class and every profession. We can pretend otherwise but why the charade? Just because familiarity feels safer then change? The game is great because it takes the best ideas and pushes past the familiar clone that all games regurgitate. This is an opportunity to create a game where a players name matters. Its not like you get every class. You have to restart like an alt every time you want to master something new. You don't get to roll need just because you have an alt that could use the gear now do you. Of course not, that is just nonsense and we all know it. This idea takes away nothing and gives you more character depth then has ever been realized before. If this idea gets implemented then you get the opportunity to dive further into your character evolution then any other game ever before. If you want to start from level one to try and master a new class and learn something completely new without having to throw away all of the progress you've made why would you not want that choice to be yours. Your name is your story. Your progression is your story. Why fragment all of that history into diluted meaningless alts. Anyone who takes the time to look at and understand my idea will know its true. Thank you for the wonderful comment brother. It really made me think about why I love this idea so much. I hope you take that time too <3
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    TeamVASH wrote: »
    The only difference is that I want to play alts without switching to a character with a different name. What is the problem?
    Surely the best answer to this is to ask for surnames that are account exclusive.

    Then you can have Vash as your surname, and everyone will always recognise you. I mean, that should see you completely satisfied with what you want.

    The notion of alts though, that is something that many players enjoy greatly. Many players don't even have what many of us would call a main, they only have a stable of alts. Your suggestion - based purely on the title of the thread - would eliminate the game play value that these people see in it, and so shouldn't even be considered at all, let alone in the presence of far better alternative solutions.

    Because I don't want to play an alt. Why would I want to segregate and dilute all of my accomplishments by spreading that thinly across countless characters when they can allow me to carry all of it through one story on one character. I only want one identity. I am a die hard roleplayer and the thought of having my accomplishments spread thinly across alts and accounts seems like a sad waste. It makes no sense not to allow the expanse of your efforts to house under one body, one name, endlessly growing in power and accomplishments. If you want to make an alt instead, sure why not. But why can't we all have that choice instead. I want my time here to matter. I like seeing the same people always online and getting to know everyones names. Its annoying to realize that all the new names you keep seeing are just alts that they had no choice but to make. All of the top roleplayers all wish we could continue to grow forever. Alts can be fun and I'm always glad that is a choice, but ultimately we always come back to our main just because this is the name that everyone knows and loves. Its the names of people that make these games last so much longer then they ever have any right to and that's what I want. I want to lose the next 5-10 years of my life to this awesome game <3
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Reglon wrote: »
    Runescape has more player IGN recognition than any other MMO for the exact reason you mention, but everyone still has alts.

    You make an absolutely amazing point sir. And why do people still have alts in a game like that? <3
  • I play FFXIV where you can have all classes on same character.

    I don't like it though... It doesn't feel like a proper rpg when you just switch like that between them, and usually you create a character around what class you play, which you can't if you're just gonna be able to play them all.

    A universal type of surname maybe could be a thing, but otherwise, no... Think it's fine as is.

    I think most players will stick to mostly one character instead of switching for every content like in FFXIV, which IMO feels more immersive and it doesn't feel as if you have to level all classes.
  • Seabrook39Seabrook39 Member
    edited August 2020
    I wish AOC had one character also where you can change classes at will also, but that's not going to happen. One thing I hated about alts is if you have several or more it's a hassle to manage them sometimes. EX. A lot of logging off and logging on.

    I'm concern about raids where guilds need a specific class, Ex. Tank. Tank has subclass A, but subclass B or C is better for certain specific raids. Player now needs to create and lvl more characters to have subclass B and C etc. I heard of people in a MMO with 64 or more characters, the login character select screen alone was crazy.

    Suggestion:

    "In game tag" display above player's name, similar to forum name but CANNOT be change and is linked and display on all characters on the same account. Other players will now recognize the in game tag.

    Maybe character names should not be display at all. Only the in game tag will be display no matter what character the player is on. Character name is only for player's own recognition. Multiple characters on the same account can have the same character name, Ex. Mule.

    Another gaming service does this, while in game your gamer tag ID is display only, never your character's name. Something else I hated about creating new characters, is where it seems every name your try is already taken. One game tag ID compared to hundreds of character names I have to think of. The same gamer tag CANNOT exist on another account across all servers, includes servers in EU and other countries. Also makes it easier to identify someone who is a jerk or scammer.

    Lets try to avoid the few hassles I mentioned above.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    TeamVASH wrote: »
    Because I don't want to play an alt. Why would I want to segregate and dilute all of my accomplishments by spreading that thinly across countless characters when they can allow me to carry all of it through one story on one character. I only want one identity. I am a die hard roleplayer and the thought of having my accomplishments spread thinly across alts and accounts seems like a sad waste.
    I assume by "accomplishments" you are referring to achievements. The only other thing I can think you could mean are other players being aware of what you have done in game - which would be dealt with just fine with a surname system that is account wide.

    As to achievements - it is more common these days for achievements to be linked to accounts, rather than to characters.

    So I am not sure what the issue is here - it is either something that is already dealt with, or something that is already dealt with.
  • TeamVASHTeamVASH Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Atiqa wrote: »
    I play FFXIV where you can have all classes on same character.

    I don't like it though... It doesn't feel like a proper rpg when you just switch like that between them, and usually you create a character around what class you play, which you can't if you're just gonna be able to play them all.

    A universal type of surname maybe could be a thing, but otherwise, no... Think it's fine as is.

    I think most players will stick to mostly one character instead of switching for every content like in FFXIV, which IMO feels more immersive and it doesn't feel as if you have to level all classes.

    You are just proving my point. You are concerned with how it feels to you and what your preference is and you are right. Because its not at all fine the way it is. Players should have the option to choose between playing alts or amalgamating into a single entity of infinite potential and mastery. And if you are being honest I think we both know what system the VAST majority of players will choose because nothing is more satisfying then infinite progression :)
  • TeamVASH wrote: »
    You are just proving my point. You are concerned with how it feels to you and what your preference is and you are right. Because its not at all fine the way it is. Players should have the option to choose between playing alts or amalgamating into a single entity of infinite potential and mastery. And if you are being honest I think we both know what system the VAST majority of players will choose because nothing is more satisfying then infinite progression :)

    Wow, someone here is really full of them self.
    Don’t get me wrong, I get your point, but I think you’re trying to win a fight you can’t win here. Most people here love how it is and have there reasons for why. One way is better for some and the other is better for some other. I personally like alts because it would get way to much for me if I could be everything, and in raids or pvp people would after a while demand that you play in a special way/class just because it’s a little bit stronger or better just in this one raid. Obviously some people will still do it even now, but at least now you have a reason why you can’t play another class.
    Also, if they would do it your way, you could be the best at everything and don’t need to communicate with others or trade to make the best weapons or mounts and so on. I could be wrong, but I think for now you can’t send things between your own characters, so you need to trade with others if you want to make the best things.
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  • TeamVASH wrote: »
    And if you are being honest I think we both know what system the VAST majority of players will choose because nothing is more satisfying then infinite progression :)

    Yeeaah...but levelling classes isn't infinite progression. If it was, you'd never finish the first class to start a second.

    I think most players would want infinite progression in the form of constant, new world content for their character to get through.
  • BirdieBirdie Moderator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If someone was able to master all class/professions on 1 character? I don't see a point here.
    Also, what if someone wanted to be incognito ? For example, I want to have more than 1 characters. 1 for content and at least 1 for RP. I wouldn't want them to be linked in any way.
    Family name will be a thing so you can have your characters in the same family and share the same family name.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • PeggysuegotParriedPeggysuegotParried Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Kneczhevo wrote: »
    Okay, Vash. Your a great tank, come to my raid.

    Oh, he's now a rogue. Never mind.

    I hope the add skills to rogues that this kind of mentality doesn't happen, Rogue Lives Matter!
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    edited August 2020
    TeamVASH wrote: »
    Reglon wrote: »
    Runescape has more player IGN recognition than any other MMO for the exact reason you mention, but everyone still has alts.

    You make an absolutely amazing point sir. And why do people still have alts in a game like that? <3

    Because one character can't actually do it all. Aside from the 3 ironman modes, pvp has evolved over the near 20 years to have specific account builds designated as various types of pures, which are literally impossible to do on a "main" which is an account that generally levels everything. Pures are generally glasscannons leveled in such a way to maximize damage output with a lower combat level than comparable mains by forgoing defense levels.

    Having certain skills restricted to 1/low levels cuts off some content like quests.
  • TeamVASH wrote: »
    but... whats the point of learning a class and being valuable if someone can change class on the spur of the moment???

    Because if you learn a class and are valuable then you have learned a class and are valuable. You don't lose your spot unless someone else is doing it better. If someone takes your spot they are going to take it. Forcing them to take your spot on an alt doesn't change that you lost your spot. The only thing that changes is that everyone will recognize the name of the player who is achieving all of these things. People will eventually come to me for everything because they know that I will be able to do everything and fill every role. I would like to play a game where my name is always seen, known and hopefully loved for always being that guy who helps everyone :)

    your suggestion takes away class inter-dependency. If anybody can be any class, then whats the point of playing? Eventually everybody would stay as one class, and people wouldn't care that much. It would take away the games struggle, because you will have everyone being the best PVE class while leveling, and then the best PVP class.
  • Yay. Another person who thinks that a bland game of everyone being the same character is good. But this one is 'hard-core'. Gratz. I guess that makes it okay in their eyes.

    Where is the sense of wonder by seeing so many different types of characters when everyone is the same? You feel that you want 1 character. Fine, just delete the current one and roll up another class. That way you get to fulfill your need, and others are not impacted.

    Way to go. Why cannot people just add to an existing thread?
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