I sincerely have never been on the fence about an Ashes issue until this thread.
Even though @Liniker's method of delivery is abrasive, they're right. Early access for character creation is pay-for-convenience.
On the other hand, if you measure two (2) hours against the length of the first subscription (720 hours) ... or two (2) hours against the lifetime of the game, we're really not talking about a substantial advantage for backers. It's peanuts and clearly not pay-to-win.
Bottom Line: If Steven was to decide to go ahead with this kind of early access, it would not destroy his years-long philosophies of avoiding pay-to-win or pay-for-convenience (in my opinion).
The OP wants to draw the line. Which is fine. That's their opinion.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Is it okay to point out again that what the OP is whining about isn’t even happening?
Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.
The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.
Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.
simple.
Most games dont offer a basic subscription until the game is live.
However, if they do, the people that get that subscription would then have pre-ordered the game and thus would be eligible for access to the character creator based on what we know.
This is as I explained in my previous post, and why I dont see the problem.
Literally anyone that has launch day access before launch day will have access to the character creator. There is no point offering access to anyone without launch day access before launch day.
Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?
I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible
No, we can't agree on this point but I don't feel it applies. You are not paying for THIS 'convenience' (as you claim it is). It is INCLUDED with a pre-order pack.
Also, source on Steven saying this please.
You are admitting the issue is not that you think its 'unfair', but simply that you Want. If you want it, pre-order a pack. Easy?
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sarkadoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited February 2021
Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.
An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.
You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.
@pyreal Do you have brain damage or some other issues? I literally said 500$ to 250$ packs "AND SO ON..." using the higher packs only as examples. Plus I'm pretty sure any new comer can google "Ashes of Creation shop" the same as they found this forum. Just because ur an idiot doesn't mean everyone else is.
And why did you list only higher cost tiers, and why in a descending order? I don't believe I have EVER SEEN pricing presented in a descending value. Very odd.
It was deceptive 'framing' to give weight to your argument. Straight up politician talk.
Lets disregard your sketchy wording and focus on something else.
You say: "If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad."
You say its an 'advantage'.
Please explain how it is an advantage.
Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!
What about the people who can play longer than I can? Don't you think that's unfair?
Don't you think server uptime should be limited to my play windows, that way no one can have an advantage over me?
Oh, thats my personal choice you say? Oh, that's a personal circumstance you say?
So is buying a pre-order.
Isn't the 'advantage' of being in alpha tests and beta tests even more horrifying?! These people will be able to learn skill rotations, learn class weaknesses, farming spots, maybe even material spawning timers and locations! If everyone can't be in Alpha and Beta, these people need to be banned before launch!
Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.
/sarcasm
*GASP*
I'm sorry not-sorry, we're going to have to petition for your account to be banned.
If we can't all have 2 rolls of toilet paper and a factory job at the Collective Labor Shoe Factory, none shall!
Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.
I think this really helps to put this issue into context.
Certain Kickstarter backers will have access to the fully integrated Character Creator days before the rest of us. So it's consistent with what they've done already, whichever way they choose to go ahead.
I'd prefer character creator for everyone, coz I'll spend hours trying different looks, and then tweaking my favourite. hahaha
Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.
I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance.
@Merek bro.. my ashes inventory is probably worth 3 times more than yours 😂 please... even if I didn't backed the game, my argument would still be valid, that's just stupid
Damn, bro, clearly didn't spend enough or you wouldn't be whining about not having access.
Gotta say though, you're building a really solid, good reputation for your guild with these posts. Keep it up.
You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.
@pyreal you wrote that because I didn't list ALL the packages and said "and so on..." at the end..... and I am the one using sketchy wording.... it is clearly just an example, everyone here knows pre-order packs start at 75$, your "new comer" argument doesn't belong in this discussion, and even if packages where 30$ that's not even the point, the point is that they Are more expensive than the entry-level of 15$ from the sub. Moving on...
Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!
Again, your argument is wrong, dangerous for the game and Needs to be ignored. It DOESN'T matter if its 3 minutes, 3 hours or 600 hours advantage. you asked me HOW is that an advantage, and you answered it. It SAVES TIME; That's the advantage.
I literally saw your same argument being used to defend MULTIPLE p2w games saying "oohhh but this item only gives a 5% boost- ohh but this will only help you a tiny bit" I disagree with you 100% I couldn't care less if it's 1 minute or 1000 hours or if some cash shop item gives me 0,1% XP boost or 1000% XP boost, a Convenience is a convenience, an advantage is an advantage, and P2W is P2W (obviously not saying ashes is p2w if they implement that but still, it's unfair)
Gotta say though, you're building a really solid, good reputation for your guild with these posts. Keep it up.
All good, add us to your blacklist and try to do something about it in-game. My guild will be easy to find, If you end up on our server just look for the top-ranking players/guilds on each PvP season
a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep
Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.
To bad nobody gonna roll on a headstart server besides 3/4 guilds lmao, and last time I checked they will make it separate and let people know which servers are headstart... so sorry but big nope
Gotta say though, you're building a really solid, good reputation for your guild with these posts. Keep it up.
All good, add us to your blacklist and try to do something about it in-game. My guild will be easy to find, If you end up on our server just look for the top-ranking players/guilds on each PvP season
a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep
You're the sheep here though.
So, to my knowledge, you've not said what you would rather Intrepid do. This thread is full if you complaining without offering a potential solution, absolutely sheep behavior.
I think the smartest thing Intrepid can do is to make a great character creator and just release it as a completely free stand-alone download with no strings attached other than perhaps an Intrepid account. Or maybe only require the account if people want to save their creations. No name reservations of course, unless you have that pack already.
Chances are much higher people will actually pay for a month of subscription AFTER they have made that kick-ass character in the creator. I don't really see a downside to it, unless they release a buggy POS.
I think the smartest thing Intrepid can do is to make a great character creator and just release it as a completely free stand-alone download with no strings attached other than perhaps an Intrepid account.
They essentially have this, except it is a game account not an Intrepid account.
In order to get a game account though, you need to have game time.
You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.
@pyreal you wrote that because I didn't list ALL the packages and said "and so on..." at the end..... and I am the one using sketchy wording.... it is clearly just an example, everyone here knows pre-order packs start at 75$, your "new comer" argument doesn't belong in this discussion, and even if packages where 30$ that's not even the point, the point is that they Are more expensive than the entry-level of 15$ from the sub. Moving on...
Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!
Again, your argument is wrong, dangerous for the game and Needs to be ignored. It DOESN'T matter if its 3 minutes, 3 hours or 600 hours advantage. you asked me HOW is that an advantage, and you answered it. It SAVES TIME; That's the advantage.
I literally saw your same argument being used to defend MULTIPLE p2w games saying "oohhh but this item only gives a 5% boost- ohh but this will only help you a tiny bit" I disagree with you 100% I couldn't care less if it's 1 minute or 1000 hours or if some cash shop item gives me 0,1% XP boost or 1000% XP boost, a Convenience is a convenience, an advantage is an advantage, and P2W is P2W (obviously not saying ashes is p2w if they implement that but still, it's unfair)
So if "everyone here knows pre-order packs start at $75", why are you throwing out big pre-order pack prices? And why do you list one as $500, when the highest pre-order pack on the store today is $375?
/e sniffs, his face twisting in revulsion
You are conflating a buyable item that DIRECTLY AFFECTS your character/performance, with a launch window pre-order bonus that does NOTHING to your character, and cannot be 'used' while in the game world.
I have decided you are silly, and perhaps shall leave you to your silliness.
We are 2-3 years before release, these guys are being open about the development. They are trying to add a handy, cool feature to the game, why are we mixing money into this already. It's an option, if you want you pay for it, otherwise you wait. Most games dont even have features likes this. When you give a hand they want to take your whole arm kinda situation.
So, to my knowledge, you've not said what you would rather Intrepid do. This thread is full if you complaining without offering a potential solution, absolutely sheep behavior.
I have decided you are silly, and perhaps shall leave you to your silliness.
@Noaani@pyreal I offered multiple solutions, you crybabies are the ones complaining about my thread lmao I did offer a solution plus; the company DIRECTOR said that even Negative feedback Without solutions like "this sucks" are Welcome.
You kids get offended by someone criticizing a company or some decision. You and all these fanboys are the reason why the MMORPG genre went to shit, I dealt with the same fanboys in multiple games, defending every move and going against every single negative feedback given. You are the problem. Please do as you said and don't reply to my threads again.
You can catch more flies with honey than you can with salt. Is there a need to be so aggressive in your stance? We have given enough reasons to show how the concept is perfectly acceptable. If your only response is to criticise and name call, then your argument falls short.
You can catch more flies with honey than you can with salt. Is there a need to be so aggressive in your stance? We have given enough reasons to show how the concept is perfectly acceptable. If your only response is to criticise and name call, then your argument falls short.
I'm not worried about catching flies. Nor am I worried about changing your opinions. I have given all the reasons why I think early access for character creation is pay-for-convenience if they only release it for backers, as others also agreed on this thread.
I am only being abrasive with people that are trying to change the narrative cuz they get offended by feedback. You can disagree all you want, that's fine, just don't tell me I'm doing a "disservice" or I'm a "sheep cuz I am complaining"(?) absolute nonsense....
I understood it as:
purchase game before you can create a character
The other option is to store the character creator data on client's local files and then import them serverside during actual character creation - then anyone can create a character, but only subscribers can actually play.
This doesn't use any server resources, but the downside is that it could (?) put more pressure on the servers during launch since everyone will be bombarding the server with premade character datasets.
Whereas a pre-launch character creator that sets up a character on the server before launch avoids this - but then you won't want non-subscribers to create characters on the server rent free.
Steven said 'We haven't made a decision yet but we'll let you know when we've made a decision.' I don't see what the issue is. So far, you're the only person who is complaining about the issue when the issue may or may not even exist.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Try again 1:14:40
In previous streams they have talked about giving it out ahead of time and having contests maybe.
Still a non answer concerning a non issue.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Steven said 'We haven't made a decision yet but we'll let you know when we've made a decision.' I don't see what the issue is. So far, you're the only person who is complaining about the issue when the issue may or may not even exist.
@Neurath@bloodprophet I'm confused, so you guys are saying we need to Wait, for something we disagreed to be implemented, and only then after it's already implemented, we can give feedback and talk about it? If tomorrow intrepid says: "We still don't know if we gonna bring guns to Ashes of creation and make it a shooter, we are considering it" You will just wait, rely on "maybe they won't do it" and talk about it after it's done?
I don't understand the aversion. It's like arguing against the whole games industry who gives pre-order bonuses for all of the games bought prier to release. I personally see the issue as gaming the quality because a lot of games are incomplete or a buggy mess at launch.
If IS can iron out all of the issues and give those people who have backed an earlier access to a character creation and name reservations, then, I would not be against it because the same argument can be used against the Kickstarter benefits compared to all the current packages available.
Sometimes, you must take the rough with the smooth and sometimes you can bend the rules. If someone wants to wait until launch day to buy in then that is a choice someone makes. There is no reason to stump all of the backers in an attempt to appease people who may or may not play ever. The argument is the same argument you applied with guns.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No I said it won't be there. Not wait and see.
I think everyone with an account will have access and Margret Or Toast will run a community event or two around it. Again restating it won't be there.
But to play devil's advocate "IF" they chose to go they way. So what? I have never spent more the 15 minutes in any creator. Don't understand how anyone can spend and hour or 2 being so indecisive on something so small.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Comments
Even though @Liniker's method of delivery is abrasive, they're right. Early access for character creation is pay-for-convenience.
On the other hand, if you measure two (2) hours against the length of the first subscription (720 hours) ... or two (2) hours against the lifetime of the game, we're really not talking about a substantial advantage for backers. It's peanuts and clearly not pay-to-win.
Bottom Line: If Steven was to decide to go ahead with this kind of early access, it would not destroy his years-long philosophies of avoiding pay-to-win or pay-for-convenience (in my opinion).
The OP wants to draw the line. Which is fine. That's their opinion.
Most games dont offer a basic subscription until the game is live.
However, if they do, the people that get that subscription would then have pre-ordered the game and thus would be eligible for access to the character creator based on what we know.
This is as I explained in my previous post, and why I dont see the problem.
Literally anyone that has launch day access before launch day will have access to the character creator. There is no point offering access to anyone without launch day access before launch day.
No, we can't agree on this point but I don't feel it applies. You are not paying for THIS 'convenience' (as you claim it is). It is INCLUDED with a pre-order pack.
Also, source on Steven saying this please.
You are admitting the issue is not that you think its 'unfair', but simply that you Want. If you want it, pre-order a pack. Easy?
And why did you list only higher cost tiers, and why in a descending order? I don't believe I have EVER SEEN pricing presented in a descending value. Very odd.
It was deceptive 'framing' to give weight to your argument. Straight up politician talk.
Lets disregard your sketchy wording and focus on something else.
You say: "If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad."
You say its an 'advantage'.
Please explain how it is an advantage.
Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!
What about the people who can play longer than I can? Don't you think that's unfair?
Don't you think server uptime should be limited to my play windows, that way no one can have an advantage over me?
Oh, thats my personal choice you say? Oh, that's a personal circumstance you say?
So is buying a pre-order.
Isn't the 'advantage' of being in alpha tests and beta tests even more horrifying?! These people will be able to learn skill rotations, learn class weaknesses, farming spots, maybe even material spawning timers and locations! If everyone can't be in Alpha and Beta, these people need to be banned before launch!
PARTICIPATION TROPHIES FOR EVERYONE!
/sarcasm
*GASP*
I'm sorry not-sorry, we're going to have to petition for your account to be banned.
If we can't all have 2 rolls of toilet paper and a factory job at the Collective Labor Shoe Factory, none shall!
I don't know how you live with yourself.
I think this really helps to put this issue into context.
Certain Kickstarter backers will have access to the fully integrated Character Creator days before the rest of us. So it's consistent with what they've done already, whichever way they choose to go ahead.
I'd prefer character creator for everyone, coz I'll spend hours trying different looks, and then tweaking my favourite. hahaha
Damn, bro, clearly didn't spend enough or you wouldn't be whining about not having access.
Gotta say though, you're building a really solid, good reputation for your guild with these posts. Keep it up.
@pyreal you wrote that because I didn't list ALL the packages and said "and so on..." at the end..... and I am the one using sketchy wording.... it is clearly just an example, everyone here knows pre-order packs start at 75$, your "new comer" argument doesn't belong in this discussion, and even if packages where 30$ that's not even the point, the point is that they Are more expensive than the entry-level of 15$ from the sub. Moving on...
Again, your argument is wrong, dangerous for the game and Needs to be ignored. It DOESN'T matter if its 3 minutes, 3 hours or 600 hours advantage. you asked me HOW is that an advantage, and you answered it. It SAVES TIME; That's the advantage.
I literally saw your same argument being used to defend MULTIPLE p2w games saying "oohhh but this item only gives a 5% boost- ohh but this will only help you a tiny bit" I disagree with you 100% I couldn't care less if it's 1 minute or 1000 hours or if some cash shop item gives me 0,1% XP boost or 1000% XP boost, a Convenience is a convenience, an advantage is an advantage, and P2W is P2W (obviously not saying ashes is p2w if they implement that but still, it's unfair)
I will try to be kind and lovely from now on, my bad
All good, add us to your blacklist and try to do something about it in-game. My guild will be easy to find, If you end up on our server just look for the top-ranking players/guilds on each PvP season
a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep
To bad nobody gonna roll on a headstart server besides 3/4 guilds lmao, and last time I checked they will make it separate and let people know which servers are headstart... so sorry but big nope
You're the sheep here though.
So, to my knowledge, you've not said what you would rather Intrepid do. This thread is full if you complaining without offering a potential solution, absolutely sheep behavior.
Chances are much higher people will actually pay for a month of subscription AFTER they have made that kick-ass character in the creator. I don't really see a downside to it, unless they release a buggy POS.
They essentially have this, except it is a game account not an Intrepid account.
In order to get a game account though, you need to have game time.
So if "everyone here knows pre-order packs start at $75", why are you throwing out big pre-order pack prices? And why do you list one as $500, when the highest pre-order pack on the store today is $375?
/e sniffs, his face twisting in revulsion
You are conflating a buyable item that DIRECTLY AFFECTS your character/performance, with a launch window pre-order bonus that does NOTHING to your character, and cannot be 'used' while in the game world.
I have decided you are silly, and perhaps shall leave you to your silliness.
This thread is - to me - as silly as the idea of duel wielding shields, which has official Intrepid agreement as being silly.
@Noaani @pyreal I offered multiple solutions, you crybabies are the ones complaining about my thread lmao
You kids get offended by someone criticizing a company or some decision. You and all these fanboys are the reason why the MMORPG genre went to shit, I dealt with the same fanboys in multiple games, defending every move and going against every single negative feedback given. You are the problem. Please do as you said and don't reply to my threads again.
I'm not worried about catching flies. Nor am I worried about changing your opinions. I have given all the reasons why I think early access for character creation is pay-for-convenience if they only release it for backers, as others also agreed on this thread.
I am only being abrasive with people that are trying to change the narrative cuz they get offended by feedback. You can disagree all you want, that's fine, just don't tell me I'm doing a "disservice" or I'm a "sheep cuz I am complaining"(?) absolute nonsense....
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Character_creator
I think that's what FFXIV did at launch maybe?
@bloodprophet Maybe you missed the last livestream Q&A segment, timestamp is 01:14:40
In previous streams they have talked about giving it out ahead of time and having contests maybe.
Still a non answer concerning a non issue.
@Neurath @bloodprophet I'm confused, so you guys are saying we need to Wait, for something we disagreed to be implemented, and only then after it's already implemented, we can give feedback and talk about it?
If IS can iron out all of the issues and give those people who have backed an earlier access to a character creation and name reservations, then, I would not be against it because the same argument can be used against the Kickstarter benefits compared to all the current packages available.
Sometimes, you must take the rough with the smooth and sometimes you can bend the rules. If someone wants to wait until launch day to buy in then that is a choice someone makes. There is no reason to stump all of the backers in an attempt to appease people who may or may not play ever. The argument is the same argument you applied with guns.
I think everyone with an account will have access and Margret Or Toast will run a community event or two around it. Again restating it won't be there.
But to play devil's advocate "IF" they chose to go they way. So what? I have never spent more the 15 minutes in any creator. Don't understand how anyone can spend and hour or 2 being so indecisive on something so small.