Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
"Ground Targetted (GT) AoE's aren't REALLY action abilities though. Even the strictest TT games have some GT abilities."
"ground target abilities exist in almost every TT game, so wouldn't they then also be considered tab-target combat abilities?"
Bruh, those statements are literally attempts to blur the line between Ground AoE from being AC skills to being possible considered TT skills just because some TT games have them....
If thats the case, alot of TT games have non-target [Around Yourself AoE], should those skills possible be considered TT aswell?
Aren't we all sinners?
I was talking about the latter. I am very aware (as are all of us) that ground target abilities aren't Tab Target abilities. They are however included as Tab Target "Combat" abilities. Emphasis on the combat.
This entire thread is about hybrid "combat", not hybrid "abilities", though the former does contain the latter.
To answer your question, yes I do consider those Tab Target "Combat" abilities too
Would you be kind enough to explain to me what differentiates:
"Tab Target abilities" and Tab Target "Combat" abilities?
There is not such a thing as "hybrid abilities" a skill either requires a target or it doesn't, unless you make it fluctuates back and forth between AC and TT after each use.
The thread being about "hybrid combat" simple changes nothing of your previous statments.
Come on at this point your just moving the goalpost of your previous statments...
Aren't we all sinners?
Tab Target abilities are abilities that require a tabbed target.
Tab Target COMBAT abilities are all abilities that exist in Tab Target combat games. This includes ground target and self-target abilities.
I've even been very careful to color code and format it for easy understanding.
It's becoming increasingly clear you did not read my comment you originally replied to. You're actually just reiterating on arguments I've already discussed in it. GW2 and ESO HAVE actual hybrid abilities, though they are really just both types mashed into one. I'll even just copy paste my previous statement below.
I literally just earlier in my reply before the last to you explained how ground target abilities could be considered hybrid abilities. Just think a little critically about this. It definitely feels like you saw something you disagreed with and are just doubling down on disagreeing for the sake of it.
I honestly don't even know why you're so hung up on this either. It's literally just a semantics argument of is ground target TT or AC of which I've already gone fully in depth about on the previous page.
Ok, this is some high level mental gymnastics, at this point you are simple not comprehending my replies or straight up playing false ignorance.....
Putting that "COMBAT" between Tab Target and abilities, just seems like word play for you to give whatever meaning to it, as it simples doesn't change the type of skill ground AoE is because of the type of game it is in!
And no you didn't explained how "ground target abilities could be considered hybrid abilities"
you tried blurring the line of what the ground aoe skill is because of its presence in games of the opposite type by raising the question "ground target abilities exist in almost every TT game, so wouldn't they then also be considered tab-target combat abilities?"
Having a solid comprehension of what a AC skill and a TT skill is will be essential when making all the skills for the hybrid combat as there will be a limit restriction of their use (max 75% of one or the other).
And i don't think blurring the lines between them is a good idea in this case.
Aren't we all sinners?
Just go back and read the post you started arguing with me about. Like actually read every word.
This is literally just going in circles so I'm not going to continue to derail this thread. God knows Cypher would say I've done enough of that already lol
And here was i looking for a meaningful and coherent debate that could improve the concept of hybrid combat and get rid of possible nuances that could spoil it.
Such foolishness on my part.
Aren't we all sinners?
Obviously once I am in the game I will figure out exactly what my preferred playstyle is. As long as we get to choose either, or a mix of both and it all gets the love and attention it deserves.
If the current system is experiencing problems, it occurs to me that there might be a way to salvage any of the coding already done, and still offer two styles of combat.
What if PvP was AC, and PvE was TT? Players move around a lot, and twitch-skills seem to be more-fitting for PvP interactions. In the meantime, PvE often has different mechanics that have to be addressed, in things like boss-fights and raids - which can easily require more-precise targeting, or even the avoidance of hitting something that you're not supposed to.
In addition, if a player is jumped by another player during a PvE fight, they'd *instantly* know it when the combat changes from TT to AC - instead of there being that delay between when the player has initially attacked you, and when you've come to realize it.
Splitting combat like that is not a good idea for many reasons, one being it doesn't feel good having to swap ability types like that. God knows GW2 underwater combat got crazy flak for that exact reason
Second, both pvp and pve are intertwined in this game. You're going to encounter pvp when farming open world areas or bosses, and in the various mechanics like caravans.
Well you sort of answered your own question but to elaborate: we already know the action skills will be stronger in some ways like damage or potency, so by mastering that side of combat you’d be better than the aim bot skills.
CC that never misses is pretty cool.
Thiniking some players would just make their most damaging abilities never miss.
So think IS should restrict which abilities can be toggled back and forth between tab and action based targeting.
Why would a Ranger take a chance on missing a trap. No brainer there especially in PvP. Landing a trap that needs to be aimed has a little bit of satisfaction to it basically you have to learn how to trap. But if it nevers misses then it takes something away from traps because it is no longer a skill shot.
How about by the number of times an ability gets used. CC usually does not work on Bosses so be pretty redundant to have snare tab targeted. But if you are kiting in PvP if you miss your snare then melee dps may catch up to you and kill you. So with raid bosses since you do not use that ability might as well be skill shot and others tab targeted. Or if there is an abilty that I rarely use might as well make that a skill shot while an ability that gets spammed a lot tab targeting.
In league of legends there are some very powerful abilitys that are hard to land so if you do it is pretty satisfying but if lets a Ranger Power Shot never misses then loses some of its game play but you know.
So it would be better if Power shot was tab targeting but some of the fun maybe taken out of it cause well it always hits making it redundant in a way.
How about a healers big heal Which healer will want to use theri big heal and miss it cuase tank just charged. if you miss a small heal no big deal right?
So think you guys are setting yourselves up to make classing a little boring with out even knowing it.
Putting your more powerful skills on the tab roster to never miss and weaker on action to chance missing is the opposite of balance. Ridiculous even.
That being said there will be a variety of strong damaging or controlling abilities that both tab and action players will be able to utilize.
Definitely.
Having a high dodge chance is satisfying, but in no way is it fun.
Sure, and that's fine for single player games, but there's a reason fighting games and shooters don't have evade chances. MMO's with a high PvP focus are not the kind of game stat-based evades and blocks belong in, and they've only been a staple because at their inception it was a limitation of the technology of the time.
If Intrepid could pull it off on a MMORPG with hybrid combat kudos to them.
Aren't we all sinners?
You can have non-stat-based dodges and blocks in tab and hybrid too via evade-rolls and other mechanics.
Both ESO and GW2 do that very well.
True, those works as shot framed animations providing temporary "invulnerability", so it can work against AC and TT skills, but those usually have some decent cooldown between each use because how OP it is when used properly...
Sadly it doesn't really puts TT skills on check, and TT skills can be truly oppressing and unbalanced without stat based avoidance sources(Block/Parry/Dodge) for random mitigation.
Aren't we all sinners?
It depends on how recognizable abilities and their animations are. In GW2 PvP most people save their dodges and block abilities for specific animations and spell effects that they recognize to be the dangerous ones
The smaller the skillset the most efficient a short frame dodge/block can be, lets say your opponent has 5 offensive skill and you dodge the highest damage output one, you basically negated over 20% of his overall skill damage output its even more insane if you get him to use a second one during the invulnerability frames.
But if your opponent has 10 offensive skills it isn't that big of a deal.
If AoC goes for a minimalistic 1 single skill bar it might work but its uncertain without knowledge of the other game mechanics.
Aren't we all sinners?
Like in DnD.
Dodging like GW2 and Tera is not something i like, and looks stupid when you have 10+ people rolling around all over the place.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
Increased mitigation or basic shields (as in essence based bonus health) that absorb damage, ok. But when I miss 5 times in a row because of RNG, I'm inevitably PO'd. My PVP experience in this game will be incredibly short lived if there is an RNG miss chance against other people.
That is so true RNG has nothing to do with combat.
Any RNG mechanic except for loot is bad design in my opinion.
If the target it selects isn't good like in WoW they select terrible enemies. Then I might end up going in the action direction. Especially if I hit tab and it selects things behind my character. The quality of the targeting system is really going to influence this for me.
I will say that in WoW's old engine back in vanilla it did select the enemy I wanted to fight almost all of the time. It was a change during Cataclysm where they changed how it worked that it started selecting the wrong enemy 90% of the time instead.
U.S. East
If you’re going to do “lock on” combat and truly want to make it revolutionary, then you should consider incorporating aspects from actual fighting games (ala Smash Bros/Street Fighter) into the game. Low attack, high attack, block, dodge, throw.