I'm also confident that if Ashes gets models that look like that 2D art, there will be significant delays in the schedule.
This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
It's not false. There will be a point at which the sliders will go beyond the proportions of the armor they have already crafted... and, at that point, they would also have to readjust animations and deal with clipping and a whole host of other recalibrations.
So, again, it's not a question of whether there will be beefier and wider Dunir - there certainly will be.
What's at question is how much wider they can get without significant delays in the schedule.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 2021
All this arguing over dwarves , just because some people dont like them
... you're literally bending what I said to counter argue what I'm saying. I linked the art, not the models. I don't give a shit what the ingame models in PFK look like. I was linking the art. Neither in PFK or in AoC, do the models look like the art, even though they should. Thin dwarves are fine as lowest slider option, but not to the extent of the body proportions we see in AoC rn
I didn't bend anything. What you wrote is:
"If the ingame models were any similar to that of pathfinder then you wouldn't see such a difference between this art and the game models."
Even the in-game models of the very game you are posting art from, Pathfinder Kingmaker, has in-game base models that look more similar to current Dunir model rather than the 2D art. So, your quote is false.
And you just admitted that your quote is false by now stating that the PFK models are not similar to the PFK 2D art.
PFK also has a beefier/wider version of the Dwarf models - which I am confident Ashes will achieve. It's not as beefy and wide as the PFK 2D art you posted.
I'm also confident that if Ashes gets models that look like that 2D art, there will be significant delays in the schedule.
Actually to the contrary, the Dunir don't look like PF dwarves. There is a clear difference in size of various parts of the model, not to mention the size of their heads. So no, they aren't similar. At most they try to be.
As for PFK models vs art, I should have said the same rather than similar. They are similar but not the same as in the art. There is a body size that is similar but once again, some parts are badly proportioned either way
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.
No, Steven's vision for Dwarves is my argument for why there should be no surprise that the default base models are what they are. I did not argue that we won't have beefier or wider models available at launch.
I said it's unlikely they will get MUCH wider. Not that they won't get wider at all.
This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
It's not false. There will be a point at which the sliders will go beyond the proportions of the armor they have already crafted... and, at that point, they would also have to readjust animations and deal with clipping and a whole host of other recalibrations.
So, again, it's not a question of whether there will be beefier and wider Dunir - there certainly will be.
What's at question is how much wider they can get without significant delays in the schedule.
Well just proves you don't know how sliders work. The sliders increase the size of the character models various parts, and those parts stretch the armour proportionally. So no, they don't make several versions of the same armour for dwarves, they make 1 and it moulds to the model sliders
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.
No, Steven's vision for Dwarves is my argument for why there should be no surprise that the default base models are what they are. I did not argue that we won't have beefier or wider models available at launch.
I said it's unlikely they will get MUCH wider. Not that they won't get wider at all.
I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
And, as usual, you thought wrong.
I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they will be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule.
There is quite a bit of range for variation between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
And, as usual, you thought wrong.
I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they will be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule.
There is quite a bit of range for variation between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.
Not wrong at all , this entire thread is argument about changes to Dwarf models and you have been in this thread countering anyone who dislikes them. You have been arguing against changes this whole time.
I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
And, as usual, you thought wrong.
I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they would be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule
There is quite a bit of range for change between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.
If you said this about tulnar, I would probably agree to an extent since that race will be an abomination of 4 species. Dwarves tho? No. Changing sizes of of different body parts would automatically affect the armours that are meant to mould with armour. The only real thing you would have to worry about is whether the textures/armour aren't too stretched, even then, it would be a bit of a fine tuning since it would require small adjustments to textures and the mesh to make sure there is no weird stretching
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Not wrong at all , this entire thread is argument about changes to Dwarf models and you have been in this thread countering anyone who dislikes them. You have been arguing against changes this whole time.
Nope. Go look at what I wrote. Starting on page one.
What I mostly countered is that they don't look like Gnomes and they aren't too skinny.
I have argued that the current Dunir base models look like Dwarves in Pathfinder and EQ/EQ2.
You can dislike them all you want - that doesn't mean they are as skinny as Gnomes...especially not in Pathfinder.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you said this about tulnar, I would probably agree to an extent since that race will be an abomination of 4 species. Dwarves tho? No. Changing sizes of of different body parts would automatically affect the armours that are meant to mould with armour. The only real thing you would have to worry about is whether the textures/armour aren't too stretched, even then, it would be a bit of a fine tuning since it would require small adjustments to textures and the mesh to make sure there is no weird stretching
They will mold to some degree. And at some point they will become too wide for the proportions already crafted. And that 2D PFK art you posted is very likely too wide to maintain the armor that's been crafted for Dunir.
You don't have to agree. You get to hold out hope if you want.
We wait and see what actually happens.
Nope. Go look at what I wrote. Starting on page one.
What I mostly countered is that they don't look like Gnomes and they aren't too skinny.
I have argued that the current Dunir base models look like Dwarves in Pathfinder and EQ/EQ2.
You can dislike them all you want - that doesn't mean they are as skinny as Gnomes...especially not in Pathfinder.
I did read what you wrote, first thing you did was to tell other people to go play another game for them wanting the Dwarves to look like warhammer ones.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Nope. That is not the first thing I did.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
First argument you made against change , telling people to go play something else and telling people that dwarves dont look like gnomes to you is still arguing with them about the changes they would like to see. You have no out on this , saying nope over and over again does not change the fact that you been derailing this thread when anyone mentions changes they want to see with Dwarves.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Highly unlikely they are going to make that significant of a change in the models they have already created.
If Steven wanted Warhammer style Dwarves, he would have adopted that during the concept art phase.
Here is another argument you made against change.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
First argument you made against change , telling people to go play something else and telling people that dwarves dont look like gnomes to you is still arguing with them about the changes they would like to see. You have no out on this , saying nope over and over again does not change the fact that you been derailing this thread when anyone mentions changes they want to see with Dwarves.
That is not what happened. That is your biased, delusional interpretation of what happened.
You can try to obfuscate and twist the context all you want, but what actually happened is still right there on the first page.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It's a significant change because it change the 3D models and how all the armor/costumes fit on those models.
And another argumentative post about changes by you. If you want me to keep pointing them out to you , I can keep going.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Or people can just read what's already been posted and the context rather than you doubling the thread with quotes taken out of context and spun with your delusional bias.
But, sure. Feel free to post whatever you want.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Or people can just read what's already been posted and the context rather than you doubling the thread with quotes taken out of context and spun with your delusional bias.
But, sure. Feel free to post whatever you want.
Not out of context , you mention the word change in those post.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 2021
I do mention the word change - and I qualify a specific type of change, rather than leave it as "any change".
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I do mention the word change - and I qualify a specific type of change, rather than leave it as "any change".
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Semantics is not your strong suit , you were and are arguing about changes with people otherwise you wouldn't even bother commenting if you didn't care about others wanting to change how the dwarves look.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 2021
I didn't say I'm not arguing about changes, I said I'm not arguing against "any changes".
I've said many time that changes will happen. Specific kinds of changes are unlikely to happen.
Word usage is important for proper reading comprehension.
Comments
Still arguing about changes with Conrad.
This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
But you said you never argue about changes in the thread , where you lying to yourself?
Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.
So, again, it's not a question of whether there will be beefier and wider Dunir - there certainly will be.
What's at question is how much wider they can get without significant delays in the schedule.
Actually to the contrary, the Dunir don't look like PF dwarves. There is a clear difference in size of various parts of the model, not to mention the size of their heads. So no, they aren't similar. At most they try to be.
As for PFK models vs art, I should have said the same rather than similar. They are similar but not the same as in the art. There is a body size that is similar but once again, some parts are badly proportioned either way
I said it's unlikely they will get MUCH wider. Not that they won't get wider at all.
Well just proves you don't know how sliders work. The sliders increase the size of the character models various parts, and those parts stretch the armour proportionally. So no, they don't make several versions of the same armour for dwarves, they make 1 and it moulds to the model sliders
I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they will be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule.
There is quite a bit of range for variation between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.
Not wrong at all , this entire thread is argument about changes to Dwarf models and you have been in this thread countering anyone who dislikes them. You have been arguing against changes this whole time.
If you said this about tulnar, I would probably agree to an extent since that race will be an abomination of 4 species. Dwarves tho? No. Changing sizes of of different body parts would automatically affect the armours that are meant to mould with armour. The only real thing you would have to worry about is whether the textures/armour aren't too stretched, even then, it would be a bit of a fine tuning since it would require small adjustments to textures and the mesh to make sure there is no weird stretching
What I mostly countered is that they don't look like Gnomes and they aren't too skinny.
I have argued that the current Dunir base models look like Dwarves in Pathfinder and EQ/EQ2.
You can dislike them all you want - that doesn't mean they are as skinny as Gnomes...especially not in Pathfinder.
You don't have to agree. You get to hold out hope if you want.
We wait and see what actually happens.
We don't even have to, it bumps by itself
I did read what you wrote, first thing you did was to tell other people to go play another game for them wanting the Dwarves to look like warhammer ones.
First argument you made against change , telling people to go play something else and telling people that dwarves dont look like gnomes to you is still arguing with them about the changes they would like to see. You have no out on this , saying nope over and over again does not change the fact that you been derailing this thread when anyone mentions changes they want to see with Dwarves.
Here is another argument you made against change.
You can try to obfuscate and twist the context all you want, but what actually happened is still right there on the first page.
And another argumentative post about changes by you. If you want me to keep pointing them out to you , I can keep going.
But, sure. Feel free to post whatever you want.
Not out of context , you mention the word change in those post.
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Semantics is not your strong suit , you were and are arguing about changes with people otherwise you wouldn't even bother commenting if you didn't care about others wanting to change how the dwarves look.
I've said many time that changes will happen. Specific kinds of changes are unlikely to happen.
Word usage is important for proper reading comprehension.