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Will Dwarf designs get beefier and wider?

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Comments

  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Dygz

    Still arguing about changes with Conrad. :D
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    He is still arguing with me.
  • BiccusBiccus Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    I'm also confident that if Ashes gets models that look like that 2D art, there will be significant delays in the schedule.

    This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
    Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    He is still arguing with me.

    But you said you never argue about changes in the thread , where you lying to yourself?

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    That's actually not what I said.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Dygz wrote: »
    I have never argued against "any changes".
    "

    Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Biccus wrote: »
    This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
    Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
    It's not false. There will be a point at which the sliders will go beyond the proportions of the armor they have already crafted... and, at that point, they would also have to readjust animations and deal with clipping and a whole host of other recalibrations.
    So, again, it's not a question of whether there will be beefier and wider Dunir - there certainly will be.
    What's at question is how much wider they can get without significant delays in the schedule.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    All this arguing over dwarves , just because some people dont like them
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Conrad wrote: »
    ... you're literally bending what I said to counter argue what I'm saying. I linked the art, not the models. I don't give a shit what the ingame models in PFK look like. I was linking the art. Neither in PFK or in AoC, do the models look like the art, even though they should. Thin dwarves are fine as lowest slider option, but not to the extent of the body proportions we see in AoC rn
    I didn't bend anything. What you wrote is:
    "If the ingame models were any similar to that of pathfinder then you wouldn't see such a difference between this art and the game models."
    Even the in-game models of the very game you are posting art from, Pathfinder Kingmaker, has in-game base models that look more similar to current Dunir model rather than the 2D art. So, your quote is false.
    And you just admitted that your quote is false by now stating that the PFK models are not similar to the PFK 2D art.
    PFK also has a beefier/wider version of the Dwarf models - which I am confident Ashes will achieve. It's not as beefy and wide as the PFK 2D art you posted.
    I'm also confident that if Ashes gets models that look like that 2D art, there will be significant delays in the schedule.

    Actually to the contrary, the Dunir don't look like PF dwarves. There is a clear difference in size of various parts of the model, not to mention the size of their heads. So no, they aren't similar. At most they try to be.

    As for PFK models vs art, I should have said the same rather than similar. They are similar but not the same as in the art. There is a body size that is similar but once again, some parts are badly proportioned either way
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.
    No, Steven's vision for Dwarves is my argument for why there should be no surprise that the default base models are what they are. I did not argue that we won't have beefier or wider models available at launch.
    I said it's unlikely they will get MUCH wider. Not that they won't get wider at all.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Biccus wrote: »
    This is just false. If they’re spending time on sliders anyway, it won’t add much time to extend those sliders.
    Nobody I see is asking dwarves to be redesigned from scratch.
    It's not false. There will be a point at which the sliders will go beyond the proportions of the armor they have already crafted... and, at that point, they would also have to readjust animations and deal with clipping and a whole host of other recalibrations.
    So, again, it's not a question of whether there will be beefier and wider Dunir - there certainly will be.
    What's at question is how much wider they can get without significant delays in the schedule.

    Well just proves you don't know how sliders work. The sliders increase the size of the character models various parts, and those parts stretch the armour proportionally. So no, they don't make several versions of the same armour for dwarves, they make 1 and it moulds to the model sliders
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    Steven Vision for Dwarves , was your argument for changes.
    No, Steven's vision for Dwarves is my argument for why there should be no surprise that the default base models are what they are. I did not argue that we won't have beefier or wider models available at launch.
    I said it's unlikely they will get MUCH wider. Not that they won't get wider at all.

    I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
    And, as usual, you thought wrong.
    I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
    What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
    And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they will be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule.
    There is quite a bit of range for variation between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Dygz wrote: »
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
    And, as usual, you thought wrong.
    I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
    What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
    And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they will be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule.
    There is quite a bit of range for variation between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.

    Not wrong at all , this entire thread is argument about changes to Dwarf models and you have been in this thread countering anyone who dislikes them. You have been arguing against changes this whole time.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    I thought that would cause time delays if they made Dwarves more beefy , seem like solid argument from you against changes.
    And, as usual, you thought wrong.
    I never said making the Dwarves more beefy would cause delays.
    What I said is I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get MUCH wider.
    And, when Warhammer images were shared, I said it's unlikely they would be as wide as Warhammer Dwarves and, if we do get them that wide, expect significant delays in the schedule
    There is quite a bit of range for change between what we have now and Warhammer Dwarf wide.

    If you said this about tulnar, I would probably agree to an extent since that race will be an abomination of 4 species. Dwarves tho? No. Changing sizes of of different body parts would automatically affect the armours that are meant to mould with armour. The only real thing you would have to worry about is whether the textures/armour aren't too stretched, even then, it would be a bit of a fine tuning since it would require small adjustments to textures and the mesh to make sure there is no weird stretching
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    Not wrong at all , this entire thread is argument about changes to Dwarf models and you have been in this thread countering anyone who dislikes them. You have been arguing against changes this whole time.
    Nope. Go look at what I wrote. Starting on page one.
    What I mostly countered is that they don't look like Gnomes and they aren't too skinny.
    I have argued that the current Dunir base models look like Dwarves in Pathfinder and EQ/EQ2.
    You can dislike them all you want - that doesn't mean they are as skinny as Gnomes...especially not in Pathfinder.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Conrad wrote: »
    If you said this about tulnar, I would probably agree to an extent since that race will be an abomination of 4 species. Dwarves tho? No. Changing sizes of of different body parts would automatically affect the armours that are meant to mould with armour. The only real thing you would have to worry about is whether the textures/armour aren't too stretched, even then, it would be a bit of a fine tuning since it would require small adjustments to textures and the mesh to make sure there is no weird stretching
    They will mold to some degree. And at some point they will become too wide for the proportions already crafted. And that 2D PFK art you posted is very likely too wide to maintain the armor that's been crafted for Dunir.
    You don't have to agree. You get to hold out hope if you want.
    We wait and see what actually happens.

  • ShergrimShergrim Member
    thx for bumping the thread you lot
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Shergrim wrote: »
    thx for bumping the thread you lot

    We don't even have to, it bumps by itself
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Nope. Go look at what I wrote. Starting on page one.
    What I mostly countered is that they don't look like Gnomes and they aren't too skinny.
    I have argued that the current Dunir base models look like Dwarves in Pathfinder and EQ/EQ2.
    You can dislike them all you want - that doesn't mean they are as skinny as Gnomes...especially not in Pathfinder.

    I did read what you wrote, first thing you did was to tell other people to go play another game for them wanting the Dwarves to look like warhammer ones.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nope. That is not the first thing I did.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Nope. That is not the first thing I did.

    First argument you made against change , telling people to go play something else and telling people that dwarves dont look like gnomes to you is still arguing with them about the changes they would like to see. You have no out on this , saying nope over and over again does not change the fact that you been derailing this thread when anyone mentions changes they want to see with Dwarves.

  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Highly unlikely they are going to make that significant of a change in the models they have already created.
    If Steven wanted Warhammer style Dwarves, he would have adopted that during the concept art phase.

    Here is another argument you made against change.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »
    First argument you made against change , telling people to go play something else and telling people that dwarves dont look like gnomes to you is still arguing with them about the changes they would like to see. You have no out on this , saying nope over and over again does not change the fact that you been derailing this thread when anyone mentions changes they want to see with Dwarves.
    That is not what happened. That is your biased, delusional interpretation of what happened.
    You can try to obfuscate and twist the context all you want, but what actually happened is still right there on the first page.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's a significant change because it change the 3D models and how all the armor/costumes fit on those models.

    And another argumentative post about changes by you. If you want me to keep pointing them out to you , I can keep going. ;)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Or people can just read what's already been posted and the context rather than you doubling the thread with quotes taken out of context and spun with your delusional bias.
    But, sure. Feel free to post whatever you want.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Or people can just read what's already been posted and the context rather than you doubling the thread with quotes taken out of context and spun with your delusional bias.
    But, sure. Feel free to post whatever you want.

    Not out of context , you mention the word change in those post. :D
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    I do mention the word change - and I qualify a specific type of change, rather than leave it as "any change".
    Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Dygz wrote: »
    I do mention the word change - and I qualify a specific type of change, rather than leave it as "any change".
    Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

    Semantics is not your strong suit , you were and are arguing about changes with people otherwise you wouldn't even bother commenting if you didn't care about others wanting to change how the dwarves look.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    I didn't say I'm not arguing about changes, I said I'm not arguing against "any changes".
    I've said many time that changes will happen. Specific kinds of changes are unlikely to happen.
    Word usage is important for proper reading comprehension.
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