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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
fairly the game developers has been doing a great job in focusing not just a certain part of the game but all of it.
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Hmm, just like you don't like the fact that it uses tab targeting, there is a large crowd who like it because it does. Can't cater to every crowd, besides most games that use fps style aiming have an absurd amount of AoE as well as some classes that have lock-on abilities rendering "aiming" useless.
Those are really quite small complaints, and yet I think they are more significant than the difference between targeting systems. What I really care about though is how well the combat flows and if it feels dynamic. I want flowing and branching combos, dodging and repositioning, animation cancelling, reasons to CC/interrupt enemies at critical moments, etc.
GW2 for instance is at least partly tab-targeting, but it feels dynamic. People are constantly moving and dodging. Skills flow together nicely*. There are optimal combos/rotations but also plenty of reasons and ways to deviate from those rotations and use different combos. And because of weapon swapping, it all fit in one hotbar. (*Normally an ability will wait for the previous ability to finish casting, except in the case of autoattacks which get cancelled by abilities because why would you want to delay an important ability just to finish an autoattack. Similarly, dodging interrupts any cast, for obvious reasons.)
And for a counter example, TERA is an action MMO that I usually enjoyed... until I played an Archer. (They've updated the class, but I've already moved on.) The Archer would just use whatever their strongest off-cooldown ability was, which was usually one of two charge-up abilities that took 2 seconds to cast or that lock-on ability (and the lock-on was just really frustrating because it was supposed to be instant but often took a quarter second). And that was basically all. The only combo the Archer had was to animation cancel the recoil after a charge-up attack. So all-in-all, just 3 or 4 good abilities that all felt slow af, and 1 combo. And to top it off, they didn't have to move or dodge as much as the melee classes. I mean, it was still pretty fun because it was TERA, but...
The Warrior was just objectively better. The warrior had several different skill chains, where the hard-hitting skills are super slow unless cast after an enabling skill. And a huge part of their damage comes for using a sort of finish move after building up 10 edge, but that move was also super slow unless used at the end of certain combos. So coming up with the right combos/skill chains to build exactly 10 edge quickly and have the last skill chain enable the finisher was a difficult and dynamic challenge, especially when you throw in dodging and managing a lot of cooldowns. So in the end you end up using a dozen different abilities, some just to enable combo, some to build edge, and some for those big hits. The pacing and flow that provided was amazing.
So yeah, that's what is most important in my opinion - Flow, movement, dynamic combos, pacing, reactive decision-making. But aiming (or not) is irrelevant. PvE targets aren't hard to aim at anyways. (Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm focusing on PvE combat at the start.)
Tab target isn't the issue, it's the way it's implemented. Hopefully it's done right.
Well, the combat is going to be a combination of targeting method and positional mechanics that will dictate and determine the ability of skills to land and the efficacy of those skills. So if I were to compare it, I can't really, how I can compare it. I think really we are going for a proprietary blend of targeting and action, that might not have been seen before. </blockquote>
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/14luppZ3Ub8jmcw_aK65QWxYY4xa8qAo9zRfpYWBxOXE/edit#heading=h.hzf0fbctpcd2" target="_blank">Source</a>
My MMO history consists of WoW, SWToR, Wildstar, AEON, GW2, NeverWinter, ESO
so far i enjoy the tab-target system the best, the telegraph system is ok for me too but prefer tab over anything, just seems to keep from immersion breaking and is more fluid when it comes to pvp battles and high stress pve situations
thats just my personal opinion though
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I 110% agree with the OP. Tab Targetting needs to die. After playing Black Desert I simply can't go back to a non Action Combat MMO. It's so fluid and satisfying to play that I don't want to EVER go back to the clunky days of tab targetting.
With auto aiming technology you can easily make the game
Tab targetting is simply a deal break for me. It frustrated the hell out of me in Archeage and when I moved on to black desert's combat it was a godsend!. So satisfying and amazing to the point where it makes me overlook all of Black Desert's flaws.
I tried going back to archeage with their latest Fresh start servers + new Races and I quit playing the game after 20 minutes because the tab targetting was SOOOO bad after playing BDO.
Sorry Devs but the Bar on MMO combat has been raised. You need to get with the current META. Action Combat only with mild to moderate auto aiming. NO EXCUSES!
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Clearly you haven't played one that does it well. Black Desert has a SUPERB action combat system that feels IMMENSELY satisfying. After you play it you really can't go back to tab target. It has an auto aim feature that basically fullfills all of the needs of a tab target system. I HATE combat systems that force me to tab target.
All of these KR crap games have low player base... Action combat is not everything. :)
Clearly you haven’t played one that does it well. Black Desert has a SUPERB action combat system that feels IMMENSELY satisfying. After you play it you really can’t go back to tab target. It has an auto aim feature that basically fullfills all of the needs of a tab target system. I HATE combat systems that force me to tab target.
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Dont get me wrong if you like it thats fine. I played it for a while, the first 3-4 days the system is fun, after that it gets boring fast and feels repetitive.
Yeah I like Tab target or a system that is close to it, the best mmos i played in the last ~18 years used Tab target while i did not played a single "good" action combat game (while targeting was not always the problem)
Clearly you haven’t played one that does it well. Black Desert has a SUPERB action combat system that feels IMMENSELY satisfying. After you play it you really can’t go back to tab target. It has an auto aim feature that basically fullfills all of the needs of a tab target system. I HATE combat systems that force me to tab target.
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Dont get me wrong if you like it thats fine. I played it for a while, the first 3-4 days the system is fun, after that it gets boring fast and feels repetitive.
Yeah I like Tab target or a system that is close to it, the best mmos i played in the last ~18 years used Tab target while i did not played a single “good” action combat game (while targeting was not always the problem)
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This man speaks the truth. Exclusively action combat needs to be worked on for a LONG time in order to be successful, and even then it's at risk of not being as good as a good old tab targeting system. With a hybrdid model, we only get the best!
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I agree, as long as i can put dots and more dots on my target i am happy.
BDO's combat, for example, looks epic and flashy. It would be great in an offline solo game. But stick that in an mmorpg where grouping and tactics are a fundamental core of the gameplay? No thanks, its ridiculous.
Tab-target = Tactical, Stat based, Role dependancy in group play. (The things an RPG is meant to be about)
Action combat = Messy AoE zerg fest in both solo and group play (urm..... dynasty warriors nonsense mmo?)
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Please give me an example of a successful "true action" MMO.
I find tab target clunky as heck. It's not fun to play. Every time I go back to an MMO that uses it, despite my best memories of those games, I just can't get over it. It is needlessly constricting and feels like a mechanic that should have died in the nineties, after internet that could handle more complex action happening on-screen, became widespread. There's no need for it, it's antiquated and you can bet that reviews will mark it as a Con and not a Pro (and rightly so). This is all just my opinion, however.
I won't say it's a deal-breaker for me, but it's pretty close. Close enough to say that if I'd realized this was the case before I backed, I might have reconsidered.
Please give me an example of a successful “true action” MMO.
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TERA. Say what you will about the Korean grindfest style, but the real time combat is truly excellent.
Start watching just around 20:30. Probably the most recent info we have on the combat system, although it still isn't much.
I personally hate the full action rpg system for MMOs. Button mashers are fun, but it's not my thing for an mmorpg.
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Was that first part directed at me? Because that is 100% not what I said. And the second part is a bit of an oversimplification based on what we know so far.
Aion was a Tab Targeting and it had fluent and good combat.
It just that both system or even a hybrid system can be good and its personal preference if you like it or not discussing it won't change that.