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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
the tab targeting helping players know where something is fine... I would like the option of both. So I dont need a target ...to well, attack.
If they do it similar to the Soulsbourne series then I am ok. Attacking is simple there if you attack you hit unless the player "counters" with a block, dodge, counter...
I really would just rather not have RNG in a fight and have it all player interaction based... no "missed" when there is really no real way i could have missed... like im standing right there attacking the guy didn't dodge or anything and i missed? Yes, I would rather not see that.
That is really the bottom line...<strong> meaningful animations to play strategically against it.</strong> Traditional tab targeting really just a bunch of pretty looking particles flying around and button mashing... and that really turns the game into a "which player can abuse game mechanics and macro the best" type of game and eliminates the human brain from playing a role.
<em>Relax.</em> Take a step back, and wait for more details to judge a combat system in its entirety.
No, tab targeting allows us to make our lives a bit easier. I’m sure there will be hot-selecting targeting as well.
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Tab targeting is only “easier” when there’s a couple of enemies around you. Once there are more than 2-3 enemies in your vicinity, say in siege PvP (confirmed to be in AoC), it actually becomes a hindrance more than anything.
Let’s say I want to target the player in front of me, who is in a group of 10 players. I hit tab, and it targets someone other than him. Great, ok, so now I start spamming the tab button until the correct target is finally highlighted. Oh fuck, I hit tab once too many and lost the right target, guess I’m back to spamming tab to re-target him…
Or, I’m forced to left click my target, which is sometimes nearly impossible to do out of a crowd, not to mention that I am unable to both turn my camera while left clicking (since holding RMB to turn the camera disables the mouse cursor, in most tab-target games.)
Neither of these situations are ideal. A skill-based targeting system with minor (“last inch”) aim assist is far superior. A minor aim assist helps those who lack pinpoint accuracy, while those who can aim accurately don’t have to suffer through a clumsy, archaic, and frustrating system of lock-on targeting. For those interested to see a “last inch” aim assist in action, I recommend checking out Smite, a 3rd person action MOBA.
Furthermore, skill-based targeting opens up gameplay options otherwise unavailable to the player. For example, skill-based targeting allows tanks to body block, where they literally stand in the way of projectiles heading for their squishier teammates.
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SO ... you trying to say that tab targeting is harder or more fun just because whene there is a bunch of people you have to left clikc on enemy first before you cast your spell.. BS mate
Interesting that you're of the opinion that action combat is "less strategic, more face rolling" than tab targeting combat. With action combat, the room for error falls onto the player and adds another layer of strategy almost. If you cast your spell too far to the left, you'll miss entirely and essentially waste an attack. Tab targeting removes that room for error by auto-locking all spells and abilities onto the target, effectively negating any room for error on the players end.
On the same note, tab-targeting almost entirely removes any elements of "strategy" at it's core, ignoring every other target save for the single one you lock onto. The bread and butter of action combat stems from the ability to freely decide which target you aim for, with the ideal situations being to hit as many targets with your abilities as possible. Taking a 1-on-1 fight could arguably negate that point, but it doesn't change action combat for the worse. Having a single target enemy with action combat doesn't take away from the combat at all, only changes how the player plans out their next "strategy." If anything, I find being limited to a single target enemy very "face roll-ish" as it takes away any strategy that could have been. It's simply Tab > face roll keys > Tab > rinse & repeat, which in my opinion seems far less interesting and strategic than action combat done properly.
And you are telling me that you don't want skill based combat (ACTION combat) in an OPEN PVP game?? Your only argument is that:"It's hard to left click on a specific target in massive pvp". Are you kidding me?? Also for those CC lovers.. Like it or not there is no EASIER thing to do than hitting CC!!!! It doesn't make sense to put tab targeting combat in massive PVP game.
Next thing I'd like to tangle with is "player base" in WoW and GW2.. Wow is only sucessfull because people have invested too much money in it already and they don't see potential in other MMORPG games (even tho they try other games but return to wow). For example combat system in Tera or Bdo are much better than GW2 or WoW, but combat is only 1/5 of the game. Tera for example has terrible optimization and it's not true open world game. BDO has great combat but also has other issues such as economy system boating grinding etc.. also lots of people don't really like eastern theme MMO's. If this game would make Action combat system worthy of Tera or BDO I think It would break many WoW records. Point I was trying to make is that Action combat isn't the reason why poeple left Tera or BDO before updates. It was pretty much other things that this game could have but game will be ruined by combat.
Sorry for bad english, I hope I don't trigger people. I hope developers read and talk about combat system again. PEACE!
Now we don't know exactly how the combat will work since Ashes will use a hybrid system with tab-target and action elements. We will have to wait and see.
And part of the challenge is making sure that nothing blocks your aim and absorbs your heal - like a pet jumping between you and you intended mark.
Dodge mechanics - you dodge and then AoE. And if it's a single target heal, you hope your mark doesn't dodge out of the way of your heal.
Frenetic and fun.
I found that to be a lot of fun in NWO. Much more fun than healing in EQ and WoW.
But, fun is subjective.
In Ashes... we will have to see how challenging it is to resurrect and how challenging it is to return to battle... and deal with death penalties. You can always target to heal. Tab-target isn't the only way to target.
But, Ashes includes tab-target, so you should be good to go.
With tab targeting in MMOs we see a lot more skill in choosing enemies and priorities in group situations making them more meaningful fights. In that regard tab targeting creates a whole new area where the developers can add skill requirements to content both in and out of PvP.
Another benefit of the system which Steven also stated is that tanks will have abilities in PvP that allow them to switch enemy targets onto themselves for a short time (a taunt essentially) which is the result targeting mechanics. In action MMOs, tanks have very little role due to most games not having collision so the tank can't even stand in your way (or being able to get around collision in some way).
The benefits of incorporating a targeting system allows the dev's to work in ways that make the combat meaningful in a way that pure action genre combat can't deliver on. It gives strategy where action based combat gives massive AOE abilities to get around the fact that you can't target enemy "x" due to a group situation.
I could see there being some action<em> combat</em> elements for <em>combat </em>(attacking, blocking, dodging, etc.) and then tab targeting being more of a thing for cc / buffs / healing. In any case, they haven't decided anything for combat yet, so don't jump the gun. Even if they go completely tab targeting, it doesn't mean it'll ruin the game. I didn't mind the tab targeting system in Wildstar (some aiming for AOE / ranged skills and dodging for enemy telegraphs). That said, I had a good time in Tera and I'd love to see some action combat elements in place.
I love GW2 combat (only lack of holy trinity is bad for me there) and it's tab targetting I think. I also love some action combat games.
It just depends how they'll implement this.
Both combats can be done great, and both can be done very bad. We should wait and see, and then decide whether to complain or not.
Give them some time and faith :).
I am in favour of a dynamic tab target system.
Is Steven giving a politician's answer by not saying it's one or the other? Who knows, but the hybrid system he proposes could potentially contain the best from both systems by balancing mass scale manageability with player interactivity.
The annoying thing that comes with reticle system isn't combat related.
it's having to press a certain key, then having to stop moving each time you want to: mouse over mini map to read objective text, or mouse over buff on a boss or yourself (specially if its in combat and you want to know what mechanic boss has by reading buffs on it), or to tab to a different chat tab or anything requiring a mouse really.
Having to disable yourself from moving around and put a pause on everything each time you want to do any of those things is annoying as fk.