Love the look of the combat action. I agree with one of the first comments I saw on the weapon "blur" being a little too much and having it a bit more subtle for me on a aesthetic point of view would be better. Also feel like it would be cool if that blur changed colour if the attack hit. As in hitting a humanoid it goes from swing colour to edged with red. Hitting elementals you get like a dust effect if hitting rock eles. Water effect if you hit water etc.
Absolutely loved the way the 2 hand combat looked. Made it look like it's aiming towards what it would be like to actually swing a big weapon.
I also agree with the tab target style of fighting. A hybrid of the two between action and tab I think would be so good. Basically like playing the ocarina of time being able to play action without locking on and having a lock on 2 a target capabilities. So for example if you were a ranged you could tab target a "focus" but if you have massive packs you could free shoot.
Same for melee have single target "focus tab targets" and big groups you free roll of target just one and can get cleaves if you can swarm them well. Think the idea of the OOC style focus target for a game like this could work so well.
When it comes to sword and board would be immense to see something that the player can control when it comes to blocking. Like a single target swings and you can time a shield parry and riposte and make it a timed skill based thing.
All looking amazing though and I can't wait to see more concepts and abilities as you work on them.
I have to say, it's way better than I expected. Good job! The module aspect is interesting, gives me hope for talents or perks that can influence your moves dynamically. For example, a warrior with more strength talents could get weightier slower swings that do more base damage but with higher crits. Your talents could modify modules of existing mechanics in the class from abilities to basic swings. In fact, my biggest hope is that I'm not just another weapon master or warrior, but that I'm a juggernaut with attacks that devastate foes and put fear into clothies, or any class except plate wearers. How about a sword master who is an expert in lethal quick attacks or thrusts with techniques to avoid damage and outplay your enemy. Also, the fluidity is very nice. The animations look great, I could say is some stagger on impact would be nice but slight amounts, maybe a better way to describe it is impact, not just slashing 24/7. Maybe heavy attacks or certain abilities with built in cc could do that as a special animation, as to not overwhelm opponents with constant staggers of their character locked into stagger animations. Maybe with your team it's possible to have stagger animations while still fighting and doing your own animations. I can't wait to see more of the combat in the game and I really hope you adopt more than just slashing, that would get old fast. Make some impales, thrusts, hacking (sword hits opponents arm or shoulder lingers a frame or two and bounces off even) not just floaty combat. Also, the blur and bright colors are kind of too much and drastically change the tone of the game from realistic to cartoonish. I would humbly suggest going with no blur or swing effect whatsoever, make it more about sparks if it hits metal or blood if it hits a being. Maybe a better way to get those visceral fast swings is to have a wind up then a snappy execution with the blade producing a sound on impact or grunt from you character. Maybe slash blurs like you had but not bright yellow like the heavy weapon. Think something more like a contrail but wind.
The following will obviously be based on how the visuals made me feel vs what it will actually feel like when tested in A2. I will have to wait till A2 in order to give better feedback on things like weight, impact, and responsiveness but with that being said...
The Good (with respect to the progress made and the direction it's heading):
-Range between daggers and Guts-sword with respect to agency/weight/impact
-Speed
-Animations
-Sound
-The visuals of impact/weight "felt" good
-Player agency
-The visuals made it look like the combat was responsive
-Floating combat text
Speculation/Suggestions/improvements (opinions subject to change with A2 testing):
-With respect to agency/weight/impact personally, I don't think the greatsword should be portrayed as the heaviest weapon (considering that was the uppermost limit per the video explanation). 2H axes/mauls/maces and halberds should feel heavier. If this was the uppermost limit then possibly increasing the limit for the aforementioned weapons would be needed. If the limit isn't increased then this could possibly be made up in the timing/speed/animation of the attacks of these heavier weapons.
-I'm sure this has been discussed if not already planned but, additional animations for attacks to give more impact/weight, possibly some sort of mob feedback like a stagger/stumble/interrupt. This could possibly be applied to the previous suggestion to make the heavier weapons feel heavier since the current vision is to not go above the current upper limit for agency/weight/impact. This could also be applied to blocking since it looked kind of lackluster.
-The difference in the coloring of the basic attacks of the greatsword and daggers seemed a little out of place. The daggers gave me more of a basic attack vibe (that shiny grey/white) but the greatsword color (yellow/gold) gave me more of a skill, enchant vibe. One direction you could go would be to possibly use the coloring based on the type of material used when crafting the weapon (i.e. yellow/gold for the greatsword if it was made of gold, and the grey/silver color of the daggers being made of iron/silver) This would also add to the visual representation of what the character is wielding thus showing off the power of the player. If this is not implemented then I think basic attacks for all weapons should be normalized in coloring similar to the daggers shown in the video.
-With regards to the floating combat text, I would just suggest directional customization. The video displayed the texts floating left to right (which i liked a lot) and would probably use but, customization is always nice to have. I would like to see the ability to change it to up and down, as well as the ability to move them closer or farther away from each other.
Overall the Intrepid team has done a phenominal job and I am looking forward to what else this amazing team brings to the table! Thanks again for all of your hard work! Looking forward to test in A2!
I feel, in my experience, the most important aspect of good combat is the feel. To hit a good feel I think you need good sound design and good animation that pairs with the sound.
I think you guys are almost there with the animation, it’s smooth, realistic and the effort the character takes to swing is vpn point. I think a bit slower animation on the large weapons can make it feel just right.
Sound:
I think the sound you showcased is also going on the right direction. More crunch on the heavier hits would make it feel better imo.
One of the best sounds in a game I’ve played recently is Ghost of Tsushima. With a bow and arrow, the sound it makes when you score a headshot is fantastic and distinct from a body shot.
Maybe having a more noticeable sound for crits can also be something to talk about, as it would make players A.) notice when a crit is done and B.) make players yearn for that crit sound. It adds momentum to the combat when you land several crits in quick succession.
Blocking: It’s fantastic to see an active block skill. However, There wasn’t enough impact when blocking to feel satisfying. The character didn’t give with the attack when blocking, nor was there any physical/visible cue to signify a block was made. Just a sound, and it didn’t sound great to me.
All in all, these are my two cents and I think you guys are going in a fantastic direction.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Dash - was that an ability, was it baseline for all classes (with different animations?). If it's an ability, is it an example of something that can be augmented like the blink? Did it have charges on a cd, or does it use a stamina bar system? Is it an iFrame? (I don't play enough action games to have an opinion on this others could chime in better).
Since abilities are CLASS related, but weapons are usable for anyone. Will animations for class abilities be changed depending on your weapon choice? We saw the dagger using a huge swing animation which looked a bit out of place. And leading on to that, will abilities actually CHANGE depending on the weapon? I.e. will daggers have a smaller range aoe, perhaps higher damage output?
In the June 2022 Combat Demo, the devs showcased some Active Skills from the Weaponmaster (Fighter/Fighter) class kit.
The "dash" appears to be some form of Rush. That Hammer is similar in VFX to the Cleric's Castigation whip.
Which is why that Weaponmaster casts Hammer regardless of which weapon is used.
Good afternoon! First, thanks for the work you've done! It's really cool!
1. Simply gorgeous weapon models!
2. Animation in the style of Japanese / Korean MMOs does not fit with the surrounding worlds and weapons. Please remove these traces after the weapon hit, make the hit more realistic.
3. In general, a circular strike with daggers does not fit very well, but why not do one. Only the distance and drawing of the blow should be such that we would understand that in the hands of not a sword, but daggers.
4. Why is a two-handed sword the heaviest weapon? Are war hammers and two-handed axes missing in the game? If they are, then they are heavier than a sword.
And finally, the question from which, I have no doubt, you are tired: when will Alpha 2 be?
P.S. sorry for the silly presentation - this is an auto-translator!
Looks really good, and I think you should continue in this direction.
1. Idea with top gear from craft is amazing and please do it.
2. I hope that the combat will be dynamic like it's now don't slower it. Also I'd like to see the current combat act as a tab target also.
I'm looking forward to such open world PvP battles like: caravans / siege / just PK and fighting for world bosses.
Really good job! And I can't wait to see the other classes in action!
well what can I say it looks great, I would say everything is a 9/10. I'm just a little confused, with yesterdays showcase of basic melee combat it was seemingly, strictly action combat, that's fine but has the target audience shifted a bit? are we still going for a tab target action combat hybrid? or is it just action combat now? I realize there's still much more to be revealed about combat but it looked like an action combat game with no tab target at all. From my understanding Ashes was supposed to be that hybrid, and if the hybrid didn't work out it was to fall back on to just tab target? Again in my opinion everything looked great, I'll be playing it regardless, I am just a little confused as to what direction intrepid is taking the combat now. Steven, you have done some show and tell without telling us what direction you are going, is ashes changing pace to be strictly an action combat based game? can you give us an update on this?
I LIKE
The sword. It looks like a REAL sword.
The dagger animations.
The ground impact decals.
The dagger glints/swishes. I DONT LIKE
The "floatyness".
The sword glint. MY IDEAS
Get rid of the yellow sword glint. When I saw the sword, I literally said out loud "Now THAT is a real sword." and then you swung it and it lit up, and it totally unsold itself. I would like the sword swing to appear as the dagger swing, just like a silver glint.
The sword needs to stop on the rock man, it needs to hit, and bound backwards, and this should interact differently for flesh beings and other materials. It's probably time consuming but this is the only thing that would sell action/animation combat for me. I also need to see some mob feedback for when it gets hit, some kind of purely visual stagger with a getting hurt sound effect.
Couldn’t have said it better and agree with the lot.
Leave the yellow glint for a holy blessed sword or an enchanted sword. Regular base sword doesn’t need it. While a fantasy game, the basic realism of simple weapons will give a huge sense of progression when players upgrade gear.
I was vexed as to why a great sword has a great hammer ability?
Very much want to see different weapon types being effective on different enemies. A large mace or hammer should crumble those stone golems for super effective damage. A base sword should struggle, what are you cutting?
I LOVED how the golems crumbled and fell away from the characters attacks giving the feeling of impact, I wish there was more impact during the fight though.
Overall, HUGE improvement to combat. I’m very excited to see this progress further!!!
Like:
Its a big step in the right direction, quite good for an Alpha.
I like the animations
I like the feel of the "weight" of weapons.
Improvements:
Weapons needs "heavier" more "impactful" sounds.
Sounds on character and enemies ofcourse. Voices and grunts were very noticibly missing
Attacks looks a like "choppy" it goes from fast to slow in a bit to choppy way.
Heavy weapons like the 2h sword should hit ground harder and take longer to lift up again.
The character should also animate the heavyness.
Animations for 2h swords are also a bit to fast.
Dual daggers needs more stabby animations
Other than that, as a player that likes tab target im not sure what to think about to fast combat and to much movement.
Dont want combat to be to spammy and strafy.
I rather have slower more impactful attacks with less movent.
I would like a tab target alternative where these basic attacks goes of automaticly and i dont have to spam left mousebuttonclicks all day.
Active blocking/parry is athing that sounds good on paper but is NEVER good in actual game.
It just becomes tedious. Skip that and go more traditional, Dont try to reinvent the wheel.
Oh, and no weaving or animation canceling, that will kill the game for me directly.
Zooming out alot is important for me aswell.
As an old raidleader its what im used to and its very much my prefered way to play to the point its almost gamebreaking for me.
The impact on the ground when hitting it was also mentioned.
It would be cool it if affected groundstypes like ice so you could break it up, making enemies forced to walk around it. Hard to do but would be cool.
I really ADORE this direction for the combat! I love the speed of the attacks because I feel like it will play super responsive, so I bet it feels great. The longsword was cool, but I really loved the daggers! The directional slashes were so cool!
The damage text looks amazing. The font is cool but it's also not super in your face or annoying. One thing I noticed is you said when taking damage the text goes to the left, and dealing damage goes to the right. I thought it was a little strange the exp text went to the left instead of the right. This might just be something in the customizable option. Speaking of customizable, will you be able to set an auto zoom-to distance for combat vs. noncombat?
Depending on how many abilities are available you might want to tone down the effect on the slash, since this is the basic attack. Like if you have the whole number row worth of abilities, I'd tone it down for clutter to let the real abilities stand out, but if you just have like 4 or 5 abilities, then it's probably fine where it is.
I love how the enemies pop up but were hidden otherwise! You're right that if feels weird in a lot of games. Like it makes sense for patrols in a fortress, or animals wandering the wilderness, but sometimes it just looks strange xD I think it was a great idea to have the rock elementals just stay as rocks unless you tread on their territory!
Overall I think this is definitely the right direction for combat and it looks amazing already! Keep up the great work, team. You guys are doing amazing! Love seeing all the stuff coming out of your studio
Greetings, my 2 cents:
-The yellow tint of the 2-handed sword's swing, looks like it's part of a different game from that of the daggers tint. I'd love if the colored animation of the swings were quite more subtle. That way there'd be less clutter in fights of many people. Spells plus colors from weapon swings would be a big mess for clarity.
-The whirlwind effect was really nice (not including daggerwhirl xD).
-2 handed sword and dagger swings had some kind of stuttering at parts
-2 handed sword swings should feel quite slower with bigger damage (risk reward)
-I'm not sure if there is auto attacks, or you have to press-to-attack everytime. If there is no auto attacks, I think the daggers are too fast.
-I love the Classic wow auto attacks, plus special attacks. That 3 part attack could be for example, a bleed causing combo. The more attacks you land from the 3, the bigger the bleed (for daggers).
Thank you very much for communicating things with us! I always wait for each update with eagerness!
(P.S. the combat has become better and is moving in a good direction)
It looks like this was all about action combat side of things. I need to see the tab target side of the basic weapon attacks too, to really form an opinion, but I like the direction you've taken
Generally speaking movement seemed fluid and responsive. Big kudos for that. I liked most of the animations.
Before I actually playtest it personally it's a little hard to say, but I think the game would benefit from slowing everything down a little bit. Especially the dagger felt too fast to a point where it felt off and wrong. Like, unrealistic, if that makes sense for a game. Try perhaps 5-10% slower and let us test that.
I am not of fan of the insta-teleport in the dash ability. Especially since it was done 3 times in a row one of the times I think. It doesn't make for fun combat at all if people are just blinking around all over the place all the time. I would like to see that slowed down a lot, and the cooldown increased.
The effects when swinging the weapons, especially the daggers, seemed a little off. Maybe too flashy? I'll have to rewatch the video to really go into detail though, sorry.
I really love how you plan to let us customize all the damage numbers and stuff.
Absolutely loved the direction the combat seems to be moving. To me, only some transitions between swing animations seemed too fast or snappy. I would prefer a smoother flow from animation another.
I've been following the development of the Ashes for more than a year now and I have to say that you guys are doing incredible job! Keep it up!
In terms of the melee weapon attacks I was positively surprised by what was shown to us in the monthly update. It definitely looks and feels better when watching than previous melee weapon attacks and I think it's a good direction to undertake in terms of attacks and combat.
My feedback and further thoughts after watching the presentation:
- The two handed weapon attacks are a bit too flashy. The first thought when I saw how bright they are was that they look like from some anime game. As a person with often migraines when I was watching the presentation it was really giving me a slight headache. An option to decrease the flashiness for players or decreasing it on your side would be great.
- The most important aspect of melee weapon attacks and attacks in general for me is the feel and difference when I swing a different type of weapon which looking at the presentation you guys did a great job with. The difference is visible between two handed sword and daggers. I like the fact that bigger weapon locks you a bit in animation as the weapon is heavier for the character and on the other hand daggers are easy to swing so you they do not lock you in animation.
- Animations look fantastic.
- I wonder if you guys as a team have discussed adding differentiation between light attacks and heavy attacks. I think it adds a nice touch of complexity rotation wise or movement wise. For example, the heavy attack would require a character to stand in place for a split second and it would not be allowed to use it while moving. The player might be able to use light attacks when moving in situations where the boss is in move or when there is a fast pace pvp fight and heavy attack when the boss is standing for some time in place or the enemy in pvp is stunned. It would add some additional little depth for people that like to min max their performance.
With basic melee attach the sword should not go through the stone creature as if they were a cloud. The sword should stop, bounce back, make a sound like you are hitting a stone and we should see the creature get thrown back by the kinetics of the sword hit. This raises the realism to another level.
I think it's important to remember that a lot of the things being mentioned in this thread (like mobs reacting to the hits and better audio effects) are not necessarily what was being showcased. I'm sure those things will be polished as development continues and it sounded like there are already plans to do some work on the audio.
That said, what a fantastic update. I was nervous about this one, and it seems that was unfounded. It's clear that there are some incredibly talented people at Intrepid who know what they are doing.
The combat felt and looked even better than I was hoping, and I'm so excited about the direction this is going.
The sword attacks already felt weighty and impactful, I think this was a perfect balance of speed and flashiness for basic attacks. I loved the gold/yellow effects - they didn't seem cartoonish at all to me. I understand what people are saying about the attacks being too fast, but I really disagree. For basic attacks, this seemed like a great speed, it made me want to jump in and start playing and that is such an crucial reaction to get from your viewers just seeing combat. I think speed is something that players would need to test themselves, anyway, so I'm sure this would be tweaked during/after Alpha 2.
The dagger attacks being extra quick was great, and I loved the effects for that as well. Not at all what I expected, in the best way.
The damage numbers were also a MASSIVE improvement.
Overall, no critiques, just needs polish that I'm sure is planned anyway, but as for direction, I couldn't be happier. This was just a great update and has totally reassured me that this game is going to be incredible. Keep up the amazing work, Intrepid!
Very good improvement overall, vastly better than before ! Great job
I can't wait to see the ranged basic attacks (mainly concerning magics)
I just have some questions concerning these attacks :
Will there be a difference in damage while using a blunt weapon (hammer for instance) and while using a sharp weapon (sword for instance) when attacking different kind of monsters ?
For exemple, you would want to use a blunt weapon for the rocky monster we saw in the video the other day showcasing the basic melee attacks, and you would want to use a sharp weapon for the flesh monsters (human-like creature made of flesh) or is it the same amount of damage ? If the damage is not the same, what about magic attacks ? Will they deal more to magical creatures like ghosts or specters and such
or deal the same amount than a sword would ?
And what about PvP, would the armor you wear change the damage type which you take more damage from or will there be no difference between each type of attacks ? For instance, if you wear light armor,
you will take more damage from sharp weapon and if you wear plate armor you take more damage from blunt weapon ?
Anyway, that was a good update, I hope you continue that line of improvements.
What aspects of basic melee weapon attacks are important to you? : This depends on the role basic attacks (BA) play in the overall combat and dmg numbers. Right now it seems like they have a bigger role, more polish, and desire for impact than in some other MMOs where you might never use a BA in a fight (think archeage). The important aspects then for me would be the feel, proper impact and then gameplay design around the BA.
Some things I would consider adding that might be missing are as an example using your directional animations you could add in some dynamic dmg modifiers such as:
Level one - based on the animation used the dmg from the weapon changes, greatsword does 150% weapon dmg if using the overhead straight down animation from walking forward. 80% dmg from side attacks, 50% from back peddling. (Numbers are subject to balance)
Level two - factor in relative movement speed and direction models are moving. If you are walking at someone and they are walking at you, if you overhead attack them you get 10% dmg increase.
Level three - factor in a optimal hit radius. You can also use weapon models or just say if you keep your target in a certain zone you do more dmg but if they are say close enough to hug you, you don't get a good swing and lose dmg. (Refer to "Life is Feudal" for level 2 and 3 as this idea is based on that type of gameplay)
Also regarding the block/guard animation, if you think about BDO's combat they have frontal guard, super armor and more fighting game type mechanics that might be something you want to look at adding if BA is going to be a core component of combat.
Example improvement/addition to guard/block: The one shown is basic guard and maybe its just a narrow cone block. You can get passive/skill/enchant that increases block angle to be full frontal guard and would maybe just be like a half sphere magical looking thing to show how much is blocked but back is still open. Then you also have like divine block which is full 360 block. This opens up the gameplay and need for back attacks, guard breaks, counters and things of that nature compared to if you just have a one standard guard.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with basic melee weapon attacks?
Very excited so far about what has been shown as 100% in the right direction. My only concern is how it develops with the combat and how do skills fit into the overall combat. I don't want to see it become use all abilities, then mindlessly hold left mouse down and walk around enemy until skills come back up. I would like to see a nice combination of skills, basic attacks, and there being some even minor aspects about how to maximize dmg from basic attacks by good footwork(WASD controls), positioning and using abilities, guards, full guard, counters, guard breaks etc.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The animations look very good, but theyre very fast and remind me too much of BDO based on the dashes and large AOE damage.The worry I have with having too much similarity to BDO is that the gameplay could resemble it where grinding mobs becomes the objective best method of leveling and I know thats not what intrepid wants. I guess I cant give a full review without seeing the tab version. If the idea is for melee to be action and ranged to be tab that is fine but I would like to see how the balance is going to work. Because if ashes does become full action I fear it will become too repetitive similar to other past examples of action combat mmos.
Will the Tab combat be just as effective as this looks like it will be?
The melee combat looks pretty similar to the combat in GuildWars2 and I like that. I have few question about the visual clarity, skill design, combat speed. How do you want to handle the problem of visual clarity in bigger fights and what is there any focus on visual clarity right now? What are typical values of casting times of basic attacks for different group of weapons? What is the frame data of abilities(startup, active, recovery frames)? I'm asking about the distribution and not exact values. Would you balance the abilites by increasing/decreasing casting frames rather than balancing by decreasing/increasing damage values + special effects? What is the basic movement speed and is it depending on the weapon, being active in combat, etc? Do you plan to decrease/increase base movement speed compared to the speed showed during last presentation? What is the current stance on access to aoe abilities and duriation of them? Are you going to limit them to increase visual clarity? What do you mean exactly by player agency in the context of combat system?
I am very impressed and very excited for this game. the only comments I can make on what I saw from the video on basic combat is maybe tone down the light trails so it doesn't look to "arcadey" Also the double daggers animations had maybe a hint of "arcade" look. And for me the most important thing with this game will be the feel of my character to the world he's interacting with. I hate when my character feels "floaty" and not connected to the ground. The footsteps are a very nice touch and from what I can tell without actually getting to play it myself it seems like you guy's are hitting the nail no the head. but sometimes it hard to tell just from videos. Keep up the incredible work. It's going to be a tough long wait for this game but it looks like it will be worth it!
In general the fight is great, what remains are polishing, animations, movements, are still a little buggy, etc., the ideas that development has been taking are very good, finally, I hope the company continues to perform them keeping their ideals and just brushing and analyzing feedback, but never changing their points of view, or ideas about the details of the game
I have a couple of critiques but I need to preface my comments à la Steven – I’m a picky person by nature and especially when I care about/like something. If this wasn’t a game I’ve been excited about and waiting for for years I probably would care about the things I’m gonna mention way less. I hope you understand it comes form a place of love. With that out of the way, here are my thoughts:
Daggers having the same animations and skills as a greatsword makes zero sense to me. I understand if you only showed them because you were talking about melee weapons but I would have just skipped them.
Animations were too fast and lacked weight for the type of weapons they were made for. Especially when spinning around. Careful not to go all the way to the ice skater territory.
I wasn’t gonna mention this but since you specifically gave praise to the sound effects I have to say that I disagree. Everything lacks lower frequencies and there’s little variation.
This has nothing to do with the subject of the video but I figured I might as well say it now. I didn’t want to leave negative feedback after the amazing weather system presentation last month but the stuff that irked me then annoyed me even more in this video.
The lighting and weather effects are incredible but the grass/foliage is nowhere near that level of quality. Everything is so flat and lacks dimensionality. I specifically remember being disappointed by the 2D flowers in the Tropical Biome video. There’s also way too much repetition and linearity. All the grass and flowers move in a straight line. I noticed that the trees have more variety compared to a few months ago and are not copy/paste as they were at some point but I’m not seeing the same attention to detail given to the grass fields, bushes and flowers in particular. Just go and poach the artists who worked on New World. That’s one of the few things that game has going for it and since it’s not-so-slowly dying you’d be doing those talented people a favor. Also don't feel the need to always have tons of leaves flying off a tree. Having leaves fall off makes everything more realistic but if you overdo it then you're back at square one with the environment feeling fake.
I know I probably came across like a huge hater so I’d like to end with some much deserved compliments. As I already mentioned, the lighting and weather effects are spectacular but it bears repeating. All the armor sets look stunning with an extraordinary amount of details. Material textures and reflections are mind blowing. All the mounts and the vast majority of monsters are awesome even when their animations sometimes aren’t (but I’m not expecting them to be at this stage so I’m not knocking down any points because of that). The character creator looks beyond promising even in this early stage (just don’t impose nonsensical restrictions to hair color options and I’m sold), the buildings and furniture are beautiful and overall the sense of scale just feels right. And don’t even get me started on the whole node system thing and all the other innovations...
I hope I managed to articulate my thoughts clearly so you’d understand where I was coming from. I still feel uneasy criticizing other people’s hard work but I mean you kinda had it coming. You’ve spoiled us rotten with so much awesomeness that every little outlier now sticks out like a sore thumb.
I’m waiting patiently (I’m lying) for the day I get to play this amazing game and get lost in the incredible world you all are building!
Love the involvement of physics in melee combat, don't like the anime-style animations. I would love to see skill-based attacks in the final game, basic stuff like parrying with your sword would make the game feel more involving. Heavy weapons should be heavier, slower, and more difficult to wield, just like in the preview. Likewise, light weapons should be ultra-fast. Materials should affect the weapon's weight and damage potential (piercing, cutting through lower grade materials).
Comments
Absolutely loved the way the 2 hand combat looked. Made it look like it's aiming towards what it would be like to actually swing a big weapon.
I also agree with the tab target style of fighting. A hybrid of the two between action and tab I think would be so good. Basically like playing the ocarina of time being able to play action without locking on and having a lock on 2 a target capabilities. So for example if you were a ranged you could tab target a "focus" but if you have massive packs you could free shoot.
Same for melee have single target "focus tab targets" and big groups you free roll of target just one and can get cleaves if you can swarm them well. Think the idea of the OOC style focus target for a game like this could work so well.
When it comes to sword and board would be immense to see something that the player can control when it comes to blocking. Like a single target swings and you can time a shield parry and riposte and make it a timed skill based thing.
All looking amazing though and I can't wait to see more concepts and abilities as you work on them.
Cheers
The following will obviously be based on how the visuals made me feel vs what it will actually feel like when tested in A2. I will have to wait till A2 in order to give better feedback on things like weight, impact, and responsiveness but with that being said...
The Good (with respect to the progress made and the direction it's heading):
-Range between daggers and Guts-sword with respect to agency/weight/impact
-Speed
-Animations
-Sound
-The visuals of impact/weight "felt" good
-Player agency
-The visuals made it look like the combat was responsive
-Floating combat text
Speculation/Suggestions/improvements (opinions subject to change with A2 testing):
-With respect to agency/weight/impact personally, I don't think the greatsword should be portrayed as the heaviest weapon (considering that was the uppermost limit per the video explanation). 2H axes/mauls/maces and halberds should feel heavier. If this was the uppermost limit then possibly increasing the limit for the aforementioned weapons would be needed. If the limit isn't increased then this could possibly be made up in the timing/speed/animation of the attacks of these heavier weapons.
-I'm sure this has been discussed if not already planned but, additional animations for attacks to give more impact/weight, possibly some sort of mob feedback like a stagger/stumble/interrupt. This could possibly be applied to the previous suggestion to make the heavier weapons feel heavier since the current vision is to not go above the current upper limit for agency/weight/impact. This could also be applied to blocking since it looked kind of lackluster.
-The difference in the coloring of the basic attacks of the greatsword and daggers seemed a little out of place. The daggers gave me more of a basic attack vibe (that shiny grey/white) but the greatsword color (yellow/gold) gave me more of a skill, enchant vibe. One direction you could go would be to possibly use the coloring based on the type of material used when crafting the weapon (i.e. yellow/gold for the greatsword if it was made of gold, and the grey/silver color of the daggers being made of iron/silver) This would also add to the visual representation of what the character is wielding thus showing off the power of the player. If this is not implemented then I think basic attacks for all weapons should be normalized in coloring similar to the daggers shown in the video.
-With regards to the floating combat text, I would just suggest directional customization. The video displayed the texts floating left to right (which i liked a lot) and would probably use but, customization is always nice to have. I would like to see the ability to change it to up and down, as well as the ability to move them closer or farther away from each other.
Overall the Intrepid team has done a phenominal job and I am looking forward to what else this amazing team brings to the table! Thanks again for all of your hard work! Looking forward to test in A2!
I think you guys are almost there with the animation, it’s smooth, realistic and the effort the character takes to swing is vpn point. I think a bit slower animation on the large weapons can make it feel just right.
Sound:
I think the sound you showcased is also going on the right direction. More crunch on the heavier hits would make it feel better imo.
One of the best sounds in a game I’ve played recently is Ghost of Tsushima. With a bow and arrow, the sound it makes when you score a headshot is fantastic and distinct from a body shot.
Maybe having a more noticeable sound for crits can also be something to talk about, as it would make players A.) notice when a crit is done and B.) make players yearn for that crit sound. It adds momentum to the combat when you land several crits in quick succession.
Blocking: It’s fantastic to see an active block skill. However, There wasn’t enough impact when blocking to feel satisfying. The character didn’t give with the attack when blocking, nor was there any physical/visible cue to signify a block was made. Just a sound, and it didn’t sound great to me.
All in all, these are my two cents and I think you guys are going in a fantastic direction.
The "dash" appears to be some form of Rush. That Hammer is similar in VFX to the Cleric's Castigation whip.
Which is why that Weaponmaster casts Hammer regardless of which weapon is used.
1. Simply gorgeous weapon models!
2. Animation in the style of Japanese / Korean MMOs does not fit with the surrounding worlds and weapons. Please remove these traces after the weapon hit, make the hit more realistic.
3. In general, a circular strike with daggers does not fit very well, but why not do one. Only the distance and drawing of the blow should be such that we would understand that in the hands of not a sword, but daggers.
4. Why is a two-handed sword the heaviest weapon? Are war hammers and two-handed axes missing in the game? If they are, then they are heavier than a sword.
And finally, the question from which, I have no doubt, you are tired: when will Alpha 2 be?
P.S. sorry for the silly presentation - this is an auto-translator!
1. Idea with top gear from craft is amazing and please do it.
2. I hope that the combat will be dynamic like it's now don't slower it. Also I'd like to see the current combat act as a tab target also.
I'm looking forward to such open world PvP battles like: caravans / siege / just PK and fighting for world bosses.
Really good job! And I can't wait to see the other classes in action!
Couldn’t have said it better and agree with the lot.
Leave the yellow glint for a holy blessed sword or an enchanted sword. Regular base sword doesn’t need it. While a fantasy game, the basic realism of simple weapons will give a huge sense of progression when players upgrade gear.
I was vexed as to why a great sword has a great hammer ability?
Very much want to see different weapon types being effective on different enemies. A large mace or hammer should crumble those stone golems for super effective damage. A base sword should struggle, what are you cutting?
I LOVED how the golems crumbled and fell away from the characters attacks giving the feeling of impact, I wish there was more impact during the fight though.
Overall, HUGE improvement to combat. I’m very excited to see this progress further!!!
Its a big step in the right direction, quite good for an Alpha.
I like the animations
I like the feel of the "weight" of weapons.
Improvements:
Weapons needs "heavier" more "impactful" sounds.
Sounds on character and enemies ofcourse. Voices and grunts were very noticibly missing
Attacks looks a like "choppy" it goes from fast to slow in a bit to choppy way.
Heavy weapons like the 2h sword should hit ground harder and take longer to lift up again.
The character should also animate the heavyness.
Animations for 2h swords are also a bit to fast.
Dual daggers needs more stabby animations
Other than that, as a player that likes tab target im not sure what to think about to fast combat and to much movement.
Dont want combat to be to spammy and strafy.
I rather have slower more impactful attacks with less movent.
I would like a tab target alternative where these basic attacks goes of automaticly and i dont have to spam left mousebuttonclicks all day.
Active blocking/parry is athing that sounds good on paper but is NEVER good in actual game.
It just becomes tedious. Skip that and go more traditional, Dont try to reinvent the wheel.
Oh, and no weaving or animation canceling, that will kill the game for me directly.
Zooming out alot is important for me aswell.
As an old raidleader its what im used to and its very much my prefered way to play to the point its almost gamebreaking for me.
The impact on the ground when hitting it was also mentioned.
It would be cool it if affected groundstypes like ice so you could break it up, making enemies forced to walk around it. Hard to do but would be cool.
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The damage text looks amazing. The font is cool but it's also not super in your face or annoying. One thing I noticed is you said when taking damage the text goes to the left, and dealing damage goes to the right. I thought it was a little strange the exp text went to the left instead of the right. This might just be something in the customizable option. Speaking of customizable, will you be able to set an auto zoom-to distance for combat vs. noncombat?
Depending on how many abilities are available you might want to tone down the effect on the slash, since this is the basic attack. Like if you have the whole number row worth of abilities, I'd tone it down for clutter to let the real abilities stand out, but if you just have like 4 or 5 abilities, then it's probably fine where it is.
I love how the enemies pop up but were hidden otherwise! You're right that if feels weird in a lot of games. Like it makes sense for patrols in a fortress, or animals wandering the wilderness, but sometimes it just looks strange xD I think it was a great idea to have the rock elementals just stay as rocks unless you tread on their territory!
Overall I think this is definitely the right direction for combat and it looks amazing already! Keep up the great work, team. You guys are doing amazing! Love seeing all the stuff coming out of your studio
-The yellow tint of the 2-handed sword's swing, looks like it's part of a different game from that of the daggers tint. I'd love if the colored animation of the swings were quite more subtle. That way there'd be less clutter in fights of many people. Spells plus colors from weapon swings would be a big mess for clarity.
-The whirlwind effect was really nice (not including daggerwhirl xD).
-2 handed sword and dagger swings had some kind of stuttering at parts
-2 handed sword swings should feel quite slower with bigger damage (risk reward)
-I'm not sure if there is auto attacks, or you have to press-to-attack everytime. If there is no auto attacks, I think the daggers are too fast.
-I love the Classic wow auto attacks, plus special attacks. That 3 part attack could be for example, a bleed causing combo. The more attacks you land from the 3, the bigger the bleed (for daggers).
Thank you very much for communicating things with us! I always wait for each update with eagerness!
(P.S. the combat has become better and is moving in a good direction)
It looks like this was all about action combat side of things. I need to see the tab target side of the basic weapon attacks too, to really form an opinion, but I like the direction you've taken
Generally speaking movement seemed fluid and responsive. Big kudos for that. I liked most of the animations.
Before I actually playtest it personally it's a little hard to say, but I think the game would benefit from slowing everything down a little bit. Especially the dagger felt too fast to a point where it felt off and wrong. Like, unrealistic, if that makes sense for a game. Try perhaps 5-10% slower and let us test that.
I am not of fan of the insta-teleport in the dash ability. Especially since it was done 3 times in a row one of the times I think. It doesn't make for fun combat at all if people are just blinking around all over the place all the time. I would like to see that slowed down a lot, and the cooldown increased.
The effects when swinging the weapons, especially the daggers, seemed a little off. Maybe too flashy? I'll have to rewatch the video to really go into detail though, sorry.
I really love how you plan to let us customize all the damage numbers and stuff.
In terms of the melee weapon attacks I was positively surprised by what was shown to us in the monthly update. It definitely looks and feels better when watching than previous melee weapon attacks and I think it's a good direction to undertake in terms of attacks and combat.
My feedback and further thoughts after watching the presentation:
- The two handed weapon attacks are a bit too flashy. The first thought when I saw how bright they are was that they look like from some anime game. As a person with often migraines when I was watching the presentation it was really giving me a slight headache. An option to decrease the flashiness for players or decreasing it on your side would be great.
- The most important aspect of melee weapon attacks and attacks in general for me is the feel and difference when I swing a different type of weapon which looking at the presentation you guys did a great job with. The difference is visible between two handed sword and daggers. I like the fact that bigger weapon locks you a bit in animation as the weapon is heavier for the character and on the other hand daggers are easy to swing so you they do not lock you in animation.
- Animations look fantastic.
- I wonder if you guys as a team have discussed adding differentiation between light attacks and heavy attacks. I think it adds a nice touch of complexity rotation wise or movement wise. For example, the heavy attack would require a character to stand in place for a split second and it would not be allowed to use it while moving. The player might be able to use light attacks when moving in situations where the boss is in move or when there is a fast pace pvp fight and heavy attack when the boss is standing for some time in place or the enemy in pvp is stunned. It would add some additional little depth for people that like to min max their performance.
I think that this is a revolution in game animation.
Cheers,
Jaime.
That said, what a fantastic update. I was nervous about this one, and it seems that was unfounded. It's clear that there are some incredibly talented people at Intrepid who know what they are doing.
The combat felt and looked even better than I was hoping, and I'm so excited about the direction this is going.
The sword attacks already felt weighty and impactful, I think this was a perfect balance of speed and flashiness for basic attacks. I loved the gold/yellow effects - they didn't seem cartoonish at all to me. I understand what people are saying about the attacks being too fast, but I really disagree. For basic attacks, this seemed like a great speed, it made me want to jump in and start playing and that is such an crucial reaction to get from your viewers just seeing combat. I think speed is something that players would need to test themselves, anyway, so I'm sure this would be tweaked during/after Alpha 2.
The dagger attacks being extra quick was great, and I loved the effects for that as well. Not at all what I expected, in the best way.
The damage numbers were also a MASSIVE improvement.
Overall, no critiques, just needs polish that I'm sure is planned anyway, but as for direction, I couldn't be happier. This was just a great update and has totally reassured me that this game is going to be incredible. Keep up the amazing work, Intrepid!
I can't wait to see the ranged basic attacks (mainly concerning magics)
I just have some questions concerning these attacks :
Will there be a difference in damage while using a blunt weapon (hammer for instance) and while using a sharp weapon (sword for instance) when attacking different kind of monsters ?
For exemple, you would want to use a blunt weapon for the rocky monster we saw in the video the other day showcasing the basic melee attacks, and you would want to use a sharp weapon for the flesh monsters (human-like creature made of flesh) or is it the same amount of damage ? If the damage is not the same, what about magic attacks ? Will they deal more to magical creatures like ghosts or specters and such
or deal the same amount than a sword would ?
And what about PvP, would the armor you wear change the damage type which you take more damage from or will there be no difference between each type of attacks ? For instance, if you wear light armor,
you will take more damage from sharp weapon and if you wear plate armor you take more damage from blunt weapon ?
Anyway, that was a good update, I hope you continue that line of improvements.
Some things I would consider adding that might be missing are as an example using your directional animations you could add in some dynamic dmg modifiers such as:
Also regarding the block/guard animation, if you think about BDO's combat they have frontal guard, super armor and more fighting game type mechanics that might be something you want to look at adding if BA is going to be a core component of combat.
Example improvement/addition to guard/block: The one shown is basic guard and maybe its just a narrow cone block. You can get passive/skill/enchant that increases block angle to be full frontal guard and would maybe just be like a half sphere magical looking thing to show how much is blocked but back is still open. Then you also have like divine block which is full 360 block. This opens up the gameplay and need for back attacks, guard breaks, counters and things of that nature compared to if you just have a one standard guard.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with basic melee weapon attacks?
Very excited so far about what has been shown as 100% in the right direction. My only concern is how it develops with the combat and how do skills fit into the overall combat. I don't want to see it become use all abilities, then mindlessly hold left mouse down and walk around enemy until skills come back up. I would like to see a nice combination of skills, basic attacks, and there being some even minor aspects about how to maximize dmg from basic attacks by good footwork(WASD controls), positioning and using abilities, guards, full guard, counters, guard breaks etc.
that looks good
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Will the Tab combat be just as effective as this looks like it will be?
Daggers having the same animations and skills as a greatsword makes zero sense to me. I understand if you only showed them because you were talking about melee weapons but I would have just skipped them.
Animations were too fast and lacked weight for the type of weapons they were made for. Especially when spinning around. Careful not to go all the way to the ice skater territory.
I wasn’t gonna mention this but since you specifically gave praise to the sound effects I have to say that I disagree. Everything lacks lower frequencies and there’s little variation.
This has nothing to do with the subject of the video but I figured I might as well say it now. I didn’t want to leave negative feedback after the amazing weather system presentation last month but the stuff that irked me then annoyed me even more in this video.
The lighting and weather effects are incredible but the grass/foliage is nowhere near that level of quality. Everything is so flat and lacks dimensionality. I specifically remember being disappointed by the 2D flowers in the Tropical Biome video. There’s also way too much repetition and linearity. All the grass and flowers move in a straight line. I noticed that the trees have more variety compared to a few months ago and are not copy/paste as they were at some point but I’m not seeing the same attention to detail given to the grass fields, bushes and flowers in particular. Just go and poach the artists who worked on New World. That’s one of the few things that game has going for it and since it’s not-so-slowly dying you’d be doing those talented people a favor. Also don't feel the need to always have tons of leaves flying off a tree. Having leaves fall off makes everything more realistic but if you overdo it then you're back at square one with the environment feeling fake.
I know I probably came across like a huge hater so I’d like to end with some much deserved compliments. As I already mentioned, the lighting and weather effects are spectacular but it bears repeating. All the armor sets look stunning with an extraordinary amount of details. Material textures and reflections are mind blowing. All the mounts and the vast majority of monsters are awesome even when their animations sometimes aren’t (but I’m not expecting them to be at this stage so I’m not knocking down any points because of that). The character creator looks beyond promising even in this early stage (just don’t impose nonsensical restrictions to hair color options and I’m sold), the buildings and furniture are beautiful and overall the sense of scale just feels right. And don’t even get me started on the whole node system thing and all the other innovations...
I hope I managed to articulate my thoughts clearly so you’d understand where I was coming from. I still feel uneasy criticizing other people’s hard work but I mean you kinda had it coming.
I’m waiting patiently (I’m lying) for the day I get to play this amazing game and get lost in the incredible world you all are building!