Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Cosmetic Shop is P2W

1356717

Comments

  • Obviously too late for this now but I have an idea for cosmetic shops. Call the cosmetic shop the bargain bin. Everything sold in there Is something achievable in game except it's a worn out version someone's thrown out. All those cool gems on it... they're cracked. The aura coming off of it... it's worn out and faded. The nice cloak... torn. Each one of these items has an in game gold/materials sync. You can go get it repaired to refurbish it but it only lasts a short duration before returning to a worn out piece of crap. Pay to lose cosmetics

    Hahaha, "And this month's cosmetic pack is: Dirty Beggars Of The Rancid Cesspit".
  • Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    That dope mount you wanted... yours has fleas
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Iridianny wrote: »
    I like higher sub fee than the 20 year average of $15 and paying for extra character slots, neither effect the quality of in game experience the same way a cash shop and cosmetics do.
    So you're just a hypocrite now. Character slots would directly influence my gameplay because I'm planning on having as many valuable characters as I can, and if someone can have more than me because they paid - it's literally p2w.

    You ask others to see your pov of "cosmetics are p2w to me" but you directly disregard other people's povs. Very nice.

    And on top of that, I can't pay $20 for a sub, but I can afford $15 (which would probably be euros in EU servers, so it's even worse). So you not only disregard people's povs, but also disregard anyone who can't afford a higher sub fee, while having cosmetics for sale allows Intrepid to get all the players who can only afford $15/m.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 5
    I mean if we are going to be talking about disregarding people veiws.

    I accept and understand how, seeing other people in game with bought cosmetics "effects you in game" however, i dont see this argument having much weight.

    I also accept there are other methods, like higher sub fees or other such ideas. But i also beleive a cosmetic shop would simply blow that potential revenue out of the water ..


    I think a good middle ground for, i want my earned gear to be more special than their bought gear to be... making a part of the player emblem, that tells you what level of gear the player is wearing, shoukd include a symbol for, wearing bought skins. Vs wearing only earned skins.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    edited August 5
    Yawn… honestly you all just repeat the same few points and it’s obvious you don’t even bother to read what I said. If you actually read with an open mind, your main responses wouldn’t be, “you think looking good is winning and it’s actually numbers! >:(“ I never said that it was “looking good,” I said it was subjective in an rpg mmo with multiple progression routes. You think you know this game so well, go read about how combat isn’t going to be the only progression path of this game. If you think it is, I don’t know if you are truly appreciative of the the scope they are creating. The reason I was so drawn into this game is because it wasn’t just number button clicker like other mmos.
    No original thoughts, repetitive hive mind ideas, can’t actually read what I said, sometimes actually shilling for a company, and wouldn’t dare stray from the status quo. So many of you don’t even bother that much and just result to insults and trolling of ideas and thoughts you don’t like, it’s very immature and unprogressive.
    I guess I should have expected as much from an Internet forum of people who have paid hundreds of dollars for an unreleased game and don’t actually work for the company. You’re bought into anything they give you because you don’t want to feel like you wasted your money, I get it.

    No, sub fee isn’t p2w, it’s paying for the game itself which is an ridiculous comparison to paying for extra content that could otherwise been achievable through in game mechanics.
    No, it’s not simply about “looking good” or “looking better” it’s about the significance of character expression and role playing being exploited in a ROLE PLAYING GAME.
    No, I am not talking about cosmetics that have already been sold as a form of supporting the development of the game. I am talking about the effects of an in game cash shop and how that devalues the experience of the game itself.
    Yea, I know there are no mmos without cash shops, was hoping they’d keep their promise.
    Yea, I understand you don’t like paying a reasonable sub fee and want to rely on “whales” to support the game “forever.” Sounds like you also rely on tax dollars with that perspective.
    Yea, I know this thread is so pointless, that’s why you have been commenting on it for days and some of you have been actually “pissed off” that I have a differing idea you just can’t try to comprehend.
    Yea, I know you are actually just fooling yourself that their cash shops “aren’t like other cash shops.” I am saying it’s all the same shit, dressed up differently.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 5
    This post wasnt necro'd.... you had a post with this same discussion going. It started dying out, and you made this one on the 4th...

    People keep saying "the same thing over and over" because you are also "saying the same thing over and over"..

    In discussions and arguments, you argue your point until someone gives in... you refuse to give in as the individual clearly out numbered here, so yes. Every person who comes here is going to say the same thing the last one did. Until the point of argument moves. Which it hasnt and you seem just as determind to stay here and accomplish nothing with these "discussions"


    I would like to believe everyone here knows we are just wasting our time. Including you @Iridianny
  • @PenguinPaladin actually I’m not nor have I ever just posted on other people’s forums how much their ideas are “garbage.” Instead I’m sharing (I guess for this community) controversial ideas to offer a counter perspective on this in development game that I am excited about. Sorry I’m not just conceding my beliefs and basic ideas about what a cash shop is, as a shop that sells things that could otherwise be earned through in game mechanics, to insults and toxicity. So I don’t think my time is being spent the same way, no.
  • Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Yawn… honestly you all just repeat the same few points and it’s obvious you don’t even bother to read what I said.
    To be fair I haven't repeated anything. I laughed at cockwomble cuz who wouldn't and the gave a suggestion you ignored.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    I would like to believe everyone here knows we are just wasting our time. Including you, Iridianny
    I mean, I've wasted no time here. I've tried properly discussing the topic and gave my best effort to explain the other side's pov (multiple times at this point). I've also laughed at some jokes here and at some dumbassery, so that contributed to the value of the time spent discussing here.

    But even after my attempts, the only counter argument has been "I think they're p2w and I want the game to be more expensive and have other p2w features instead". I wish this mmo could support itself just off of subs alone, but that will not be the case as long as they don't sell themselves to some publisher.

    And yes, as this (and countless others) thread have shown - even the vocal minority, that is present on a forum of a game that's years out, doesn't care about potential p2wness of cosmetic shops. Partially because some of them don't care about cosmetics. Partially because they have enough logical acuity to understand that any store cosmetic will be worthless in the eyes of anyone who has played the game for more than a week. And partially because, as Steven likes to say, they've been beaten down by every single other mmo so they try to cling to the smallest sliver of hope that Ashes will somehow be different.

    P.S. most of cosmetics we've seen so far have been alleged to represent NPCs in Verra (afaik). We have also been told that there'll be social orgs that we can become a part and be a representor of. But I'm not sure if there's been any indication of whether any of the NPCs represented by the sold cosmetics will be a part of any of the social orgs we'll have available. So, in other words, we don't know if we'll be able to "RP" as those NPCs.

    Yes, those people who have bought the cosmetics can pretend they're a part of the NPC group, but that would be a self-generated gameplay rather than a system-based one. And considering that Intrepid have said that they don't plan on having RP servers, I'd assume that RP is not a directly intended gameplay style.

    Now it could be argued that Intrepid's intentions don't matter and that RP goes beyond any system restrictions, but in that case why would the cosmetics matter? You could find any random set of gear, say that you're an off-shoot of some NPC organization and just RP as that, no? If RP is meant to operate outside of the preprogrammed systems, then why should the developers bother caring about the RPers' desires?

    Like, we'll have several programmed systems that are meant directly for the RPers (as shown here). But none of those seem to indicate that RPing as NPCs is an intended way to play.

    You could also blame Intrepid for even selling those NPC costumes, because it muddies the waters of "who do they really care about". Jeff said that they care about RPers, but then they go and sell NPCs' liking before the game is even out. And I would even see this as a fully valid argument against the current monetization scheme. But it seems to me that this is not Iridianny's issue. And instead, the issue seems to be the potential subjectively perceived p2wness of a cosmetic store, the contents of which we got no idea about.

    And when I asked whether it was an issue of each given item being the problem, she said that it wasn't. Then it's gotta be a systematic issue. But we don't even know if the gear in the release version of the store will fit any RP storyline. So the issue is the ephemerous future potential of seeming p2wness of the shop.

    TL;DR the whole thing is a huge damn mess
  • MaiWaifuMaiWaifu Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I'm sorry if I had come off as rude previously. I'm just trying to open discussion more instead of keep to the same points.

    To take a deeper dive into this point you raised:
    Iridianny wrote: »
    No, it’s not simply about “looking good” or “looking better” it’s about the significance of character expression and role playing being exploited in a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

    Are you saying that because a specific cosmetic is available in the store it is limiting character expression?

    I can see where you're coming from but I kind of disagree with this. This isn't a dress-up game with all clothing unlocked and you get to look however you want all the time.

    This is like having a problem with the quest reward giving you leather armour instead of iron armour when that's not the appearance you want your character to have.

    Appearance in a role playing game is important, I agree. But I think, how you achieve that appearance also matters.

    As I said before, if a cosmetic is available in the cash shop it's already abundantly clear that person just paid for that appearance and didn't work for it.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Iridianny is seriously starting to piss me off. You monothematic fuck.

    Some of you are very angry and agressive people. You should take a step back and wonder if you were what inspired the staff to start a thread about battling toxicity in their community long before the game has even been released. :# Maybe you shouldn't take anything in this online forum so seriously that you get "seriously pissed off"... it's probably bad for your blood pressure.

    The way I see it you're far more toxic to the forums' health and intended purpose. So please don't act the saint and deflect blame elsewhere
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Iridianny is seriously starting to piss me off. You monothematic fuck.

    Some of you are very angry and agressive people. You should take a step back and wonder if you were what inspired the staff to start a thread about battling toxicity in their community long before the game has even been released. :# Maybe you shouldn't take anything in this online forum so seriously that you get "seriously pissed off"... it's probably bad for your blood pressure.

    The way I see it you're far more toxic to the forums' health and intended purpose. So please don't act the saint and deflect blame elsewhere

    I see both sides. To bring up a topic, and "rufuse" any and all arguments against it, and then get angry with people for arguing against your view, is toxic. Even if you arent being so agressive word wise.


    And yes, alot of the people letting themselves get heated and bickering and insults and all that is disgraceful.

    But again. It take 2 sides to argue. @Iridianny has obviously made their point, and obviously nearly everyone else here disagrees with that point.

    Unless both sides want to start acknowledging eachothers points and actually discuss any of it, the threads already completed. As no one seems to care what the otherside has to say. I know none of the arguments ive tried making against iridianny has been adressed. She just complains that other people have already made those arguments.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    But again. It take 2 sides to argue. @Iridianny has obviously made their point, and obviously nearly everyone else here disagrees with that point.

    This exact impasse w/Iridianny was reached earlier this year in a similar thread. Which is fine. Everyone has their hill to die on.

    I don't agree, she knows I don't agree, so what's left to go on and on about? Anyone who's read/watched Intrepid's perspective on P2W can make up their own mind.

    My 2 cents is just let it go.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • @PenguinPaladin Why should I repeat myself every time someone has the same argument? I say I have already responded to that argument in hopes that person will go read instead of just responding directly to the forum title with the same stuff everyone else said. You want me to address the points of the other side, well I already have addressed most of them. If you can find one I missed, I will respond to it. If someone says "that's garbage!" or "no" then there's not much I can say in response to those... Most posts completely ignore my original point or any points I've made that winning is subjective in a role playing game with multiple progression paths and assume that for me the whole argument is about the necessity of "having to collect all the cosmetics" or "looking the best" when I've repeatedly countered that accusation.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?
  • Here's something I didn't respond to because it felt they just didn't read what I said..
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    The skins available in cash shop, being that their in the cash shop. Doesn't this already tell people that this persons skin they are using is not a dramatic achievement and that they just threw money at the game instead?

    Would you still consider it p2w if the skin being sold in the store is entirely unobtainable through game play?
    You are right, it does, but it also falsely shows what is even achievable within the game upon viewing other players given cosmetics on the shop are limited time.

    Yes, it's not about any one skin itself, but...
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Collection of appearances is a game mechanic. Being able to buy any feature of your character that otherwise could be achieved in game through content and game mechanics, is paying to “win” part of the game.

  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?

    Not being spiteful or toxic, just sharing a counter perspective. Not lying or misleading anyone, they are free to make their own conclusions. Not ignoring anyone's points that are relevant, like this post you've just made is again something I should have ignored because it's irrelevant and full of accusations and insults. Not attacking the game at all, just pointing out something I found to be misleading that there is no p2w and if you actually read any part of my perspective, you'd see why I interpret it as p2w. Excited for the game regardless and not mad at all. :D
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Yes, those people who have bought the cosmetics can pretend they're a part of the NPC group, but that would be a self-generated gameplay rather than a system-based one.

    Where do I even begin. Any roleplaying game's sole purpose is roleplaying. That is what rpg stands for. Whether your roleplaying is focused on pretending to be a warrior with min maxing combat features, or pretending to be an npc and owning a tavern is irrelevant. The whole game is system based to let people roleplay as a character in a fantasy world and that is up to the player to decide how. RPG = roleplaying game.
    NiKr wrote: »
    And considering that Intrepid have said that they don't plan on having RP servers, I'd assume that RP is not a directly intended gameplay style.

    They don't have an rp server because Steven wants rp to be integral to every server. Hence, rpg.
    NiKr wrote: »
    Like, we'll have several programmed systems that are meant directly for the RPers (as shown here). But none of those seem to indicate that RPing as NPCs is an intended way to play.

    Like I said, their scope is to have many progression paths, and there is supposed to be a loose "intended way to play."


  • MaiWaifuMaiWaifu Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One

    Iridianny wrote: »
    You are right, it does, but it also falsely shows what is even achievable within the game upon viewing other players given cosmetics on the shop are limited time.

    Yes, it's not about any one skin itself, but...
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Collection of appearances is a game mechanic. Being able to buy any feature of your character that otherwise could be achieved in game through content and game mechanics, is paying to “win” part of the game.

    I'm not sure what you mean here.

    My point is that you can't achieve this look in game at all without cash shop. The cosmetic is untradable. I don't think it counts as winning over someone since that person isn't in the race for that look at all.

    It's like if there was a sports event and I didn't pay the entry fee. They didn't really beat me if I didn't compete?



  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Okay, i've ready every post you have made in this thread.

    Now, acknowledge my arguments that you have not acknowledged in this thread.

    1. You say earning cosmetics is important to a players progression in game, and so buying them is a form of winning. I do not believe this to be the case, because "wining" in the sense of pay to win is directly talking about how spending money gives you an upperhand against another party, making things unfair. If to you, gathering and earning cosmetics is a large part of your experience, they you may spend your time doing these things. Others being able to buy these things does not make any confrontations you have with other players disadvantagous in game. Even more so if the cosmetics in the shop, are not the exact cosmetic items you obtain in game. That makes those cosmetic earned in game still unique, and have that purpose of something to acheive.

    If you do not agree with this, thats fine, but the fact that we have differing opinions in general means if you CAN NOT convince me or other parties, then this argument is void and meaning less.

    2. I do not beleive they can make as much potential revenue from other means than a cosmetic shop.

    Again if you do not agree, cool. But if you can not convince me and others, this point is void and meaningless.

    3. I think most people would perfer no "shops" but just realize its something that in the current market, the developers need in order to survive. And most people agree, that the shops they have put forth, having no pay to win, and only selling non-character effecting cosmetic skins is the best possible way to make additional revenue, without damaging the overall aspects within the game.

    Again, if you disagree that is fine. But if you can not convince others of your point of view, then the argument is meaningless and void.

    Its not my job to explain your feeling in a way other would care about them. It not my job to change my mind. Its yours.



  • I accept and understand how, seeing other people in game with bought cosmetics "effects you in game" however, i dont see this argument having much weight.

    That's your opinion and that's fine, I am not saying it "has much weight" just offering a counter perspective.
    I also accept there are other methods, like higher sub fees or other such ideas. But i also beleive a cosmetic shop would simply blow that potential revenue out of the water ..

    I understand that the revenue might be higher, but I believe it's more important to long term success how it will negatively affect gameplay experience and there are more reasons that you can read in other posts I've made. For this discussion, I just think it's p2w.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?

    Not being spiteful or toxic, just sharing a counter perspective. Not lying or misleading anyone, they are free to make their own conclusions. Not ignoring anyone's points that are relevant, like this post you've just made is again something I should have ignored because it's irrelevant and full of accusations and insults. Not attacking the game at all, just pointing out something I found to be misleading that there is no p2w and if you actually read any part of my perspective, you'd see why I interpret it as p2w. Excited for the game regardless and not mad at all. :D

    You don't get to redefine what p2w is to fit your narrative lmfao.
  • MaiWaifu wrote: »
    My point is that you can't achieve this look in game at all without cash shop. The cosmetic is untradable. I don't think it counts as winning over someone since that person isn't in the race for that look at all.
    Collection of appearances is a game mechanic. Being able to buy any feature of your character that otherwise could be achieved in game through content and game mechanics, is paying to “win” part of the game.
    The mechanic is in the game, various cosmetics are in the game, I am not speaking to any one specific cosmetic I am speaking to the concept of selling them as a whole. The in-game feature of character appearance also being sold for extra. I really don't know how else to explain it.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    edited August 5
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?

    Not being spiteful or toxic, just sharing a counter perspective. Not lying or misleading anyone, they are free to make their own conclusions. Not ignoring anyone's points that are relevant, like this post you've just made is again something I should have ignored because it's irrelevant and full of accusations and insults. Not attacking the game at all, just pointing out something I found to be misleading that there is no p2w and if you actually read any part of my perspective, you'd see why I interpret it as p2w. Excited for the game regardless and not mad at all. :D

    You don't get to redefine what p2w is to fit your narrative lmfao.

    Not redefining it to fit a narrative, just offering a counter perspective. I think you are more so limiting what p2w actually is based on the way you like to play roleplaying games.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 5
    Iridianny wrote: »
    I accept and understand how, seeing other people in game with bought cosmetics "effects you in game" however, i dont see this argument having much weight.

    That's your opinion and that's fine, I am not saying it "has much weight" just offering a counter perspective."
    I also accept there are other methods, like higher sub fees or other such ideas. But i also beleive a cosmetic shop would simply blow that potential revenue out of the water ..

    I understand that the revenue might be higher, but I believe it's more important to long term success how it will negatively affect gameplay experience and there are more reasons that you can read in other posts I've made. For this discussion, I just think it's p2w.

    Your response to both of these points....

    "Im not saying it "has much weight" just offering a counter perspective.

    You've become submissive here, not trying to defend your point or further explain your point. I can not respond, leaving things here you have pretty much agreed with me or at least stopped arguing, that cosmetics hold higher impact in game feel.

    And "i understand it may be higher, but long term..."

    no games last "long term" any more. Most games lose nearly 90% of their peak in less than a year. Immediate great success, is more advantageous to ashes while it has its peak of players. Than gradual Success. To design around gradual success in todays market it throwing away over 70% of your profit overall.
  • MaiWaifuMaiWaifu Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Iridianny wrote: »
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    My point is that you can't achieve this look in game at all without cash shop. The cosmetic is untradable. I don't think it counts as winning over someone since that person isn't in the race for that look at all.
    Collection of appearances is a game mechanic. Being able to buy any feature of your character that otherwise could be achieved in game through content and game mechanics, is paying to “win” part of the game.
    The mechanic is in the game, various cosmetics are in the game, I am not speaking to any one specific cosmetic I am speaking to the concept of selling them as a whole. The in-game feature of character appearance also being sold for extra. I really don't know how else to explain it.

    Would you consider DLC costumes in games like Streetfighter P2W?
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?

    Not being spiteful or toxic, just sharing a counter perspective. Not lying or misleading anyone, they are free to make their own conclusions. Not ignoring anyone's points that are relevant, like this post you've just made is again something I should have ignored because it's irrelevant and full of accusations and insults. Not attacking the game at all, just pointing out something I found to be misleading that there is no p2w and if you actually read any part of my perspective, you'd see why I interpret it as p2w. Excited for the game regardless and not mad at all. :D

    You don't get to redefine what p2w is to fit your narrative lmfao.

    Not redefining it to fit a narrative, just offering a counter perspective. I think you are more so limiting what p2w actually is based on the way you like to play roleplaying games.

    It isn't a counter perspective, all you are doing is being ignorant. P2W has to do with power gain in a game where you have an advantage over another in gameplay and can use money to order to more effectively do content.

    You saying someone is limiting pay to win is again, you trying to redefine what pay to win is you are actually doing it within the same post it is pretty sad.


  • DolyemDolyem Member
    edited August 5
    A gameplay advantage is not provided through cosmetics, therefore you aren't able to increase your chances of winning in gameplay when paying for cosmetics. Cosmetics are not pay to win, its pay to dress up.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This whole thread is repeating for a reaction when you were apart of another forum and you decided to be spiteful and toxic on the forum. Creating a thread calling it P2W, even with the definition of p2w not matching cosmetics in this game.

    It doesn't matter how much you try to twist it to suit your own bias you are blatantly lying and being misleading as hell on the forum. Pretty damn disrespectful if you ask me. You aren't answer peoples points you are simply ignoring or try to weasel around in a way you can accept to try to say you are right.

    Outfits in this game are not pay o win they do not give you an advantage, they do not give you money for selling on the market. Stop lying to peoples faces, you think being disrespectful to people is going to create a positive thread because you want to be mad and attack the game?

    Not being spiteful or toxic, just sharing a counter perspective. Not lying or misleading anyone, they are free to make their own conclusions. Not ignoring anyone's points that are relevant, like this post you've just made is again something I should have ignored because it's irrelevant and full of accusations and insults. Not attacking the game at all, just pointing out something I found to be misleading that there is no p2w and if you actually read any part of my perspective, you'd see why I interpret it as p2w. Excited for the game regardless and not mad at all. :D

    You don't get to redefine what p2w is to fit your narrative lmfao.

    Not redefining it to fit a narrative, just offering a counter perspective. I think you are more so limiting what p2w actually is based on the way you like to play roleplaying games.

    You cant "counter perspective" a definition. We have to have a clearly defined definition to have a discussion. Otherwise no one can have any stance because we are arguing different things. You should conceed on the p2w front as others definition does not match your own and you just admitted that.
  • Iridianny wrote: »
    I accept and understand how, seeing other people in game with bought cosmetics "effects you in game" however, i dont see this argument having much weight.

    That's your opinion and that's fine, I am not saying it "has much weight" just offering a counter perspective.
    I also accept there are other methods, like higher sub fees or other such ideas. But i also beleive a cosmetic shop would simply blow that potential revenue out of the water ..

    I understand that the revenue might be higher, but I believe it's more important to long term success how it will negatively affect gameplay experience and there are more reasons that you can read in other posts I've made. For this discussion, I just think it's p2w.

    Your response to both of these points....

    "Im not saying it "has much weight" just offering a counter perspective.

    You've become submissive here, not trying to defend your point or further explain your point. I can not respond, leaving things here you have pretty much agreed or at least stopped arguing, that cosmetics hold higher impact in game feel.

    And "i understand it may be higher, but long term..."

    no games last "long term" any more. Most games lose nearly 90% of their peak in less than a year. Immediate great success, if more advantageous to ashes while it has its peak of players. Than gradual Success. To design around gradual success in todays market it throwing away over 70% of your profit overall.

    I have defended my point to the furthest extend I can. If you have any specific questions about it, I can answer them, but it's not my goal to convince you. And alright, I guess the most popular mmo ever, WoW isn't still releasing expansions? I said it would be more beneficial for the long term, but I don't know for sure if that's Intrepid's goals or not. Do you?
Sign In or Register to comment.