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PvX tilted towards PvE High Risk vs High Reward

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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    People will come to play AoC no matter how some here cry about pvp oceans, no instanced content, no rp servers, no dps meters etc etc etc.

    Indeed, some people will. It would be foolish for anyone to think otherwise.

    However, it would be just as foolish to assume that the ocean state, no instanced content and such wont see other people play elsewhere.

    To me, as I have said to you in the past, Ashes will be the best version of itself if it attracts some people that play MMO's primarily for the PvE content. This gives Intrepid more money, and PvP players more people to PvP with.

    This makes it a better game for literally everyone.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I disagree. It's time that the entertainment industry stopped churning out lame products for quick consumption, and make some fine games or shows or movies.
    I am 100% sure that the vast majority of those that say "I won't play" will be here at launch. Feel free to believe that the vast majority of them will choose not to play. Not much more to say about that that hasn't alrdy been said.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    This game will gain more attention for not doing like every other mmorpg has done in the past year and cater to PvE players and make another theme park pve mmorpg. PvX and PvP crowd want something different and we are finally getting it after years.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I disagree. It's time that the entertainment industry stopped churning out lame products for quick consumption, and make some fine games or shows or movies.
    I am 100% sure that the vast majority of those that say "I won't play" will be here at launch. Feel free to believe that the vast majority of them will choose not to play. Not much more to say about that that hasn't alrdy been said.

    I mean, you say you want them to do something different, while also saying you want them to make the same game as L2, Tera, Archeage, BDO et al.

    I mean, the average time a subscriber stays in a PvP game vs a PvE game should be screaming at you which of them is designed as the lame product for short term consumption - the thing you claim to want to avoid yet also advocate for.

    I agree that someone should make a game that isnt just the same old lame shit. Since every game above is basically just lame ass PvP, and since WoW and FFXIV is just lame ass PvE, the game that does things different is the game that manages to combine these two together well.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    When did I ever said that I want them to make a bdo, tera or AA?
    I dont like any of them. I liked Teras action combat, that's all. AA seemed to me like pointless PvP and profession slavery. L2 was the perfect mmo, even though it didn't had much in the realm of professions and housing/shipping/caravans. Making a gaming without those would be boring.
    The rest also is POV, not a fact. We are going in circles. The fact is that we alrdy have too many failed mmos. Why copy their philosophy.

    You define combine differently to me. I've talked about what PvX means in essence elsewhere.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Okeydoke wrote: »
    A million times this. The economic threats and intimidation are so old, weak and tired. Some people masking it behind a supposed genuine worry the game will fail, nonsense, most are just making economic threats and insinuations to try to get their way.
    Good chance Ashes will garner populations at least as large as EvE or ArcheAge.

    Would love it if Ashes could make and sustain 30k per server like I beleive EvE has the capabiltiy to do..around 10k still worries me..
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Ashes will 1 mill concurrent at launch easy, any developer knows that is possible, its just about retaining the players. Every big streamer will be playing, pushing and marketing the game (mmorpg streamers and fps / shooter ones, action, etc).

    They need to make sure the leveling process is fun from 1 to end game. Older mmorps aren't important they were ether killed off by wow liek every single other mmorpg, had p2w, bad gameplay practices with gambling, etc. Anyone trying to compare them is trying to be disingenuous right off the bat so I wouldn't trust them without criticism.

    We live in a different age as i've stated before with how new world and lost ark both popped off, people are hungry and will play what is out there, wow doesn't have the same pull it did years ago.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think it is hard to explain L2 to those that did not experience its near end game. Yes, it had pvp and there has never been another MMO experience quite a impactful since.



    In order to pvp, one had to pve.. UNLESS you were very, very good and managed not to die.. and that fortune was probably only limited to half a dozens pvp`ers on the server.. and when they stuffed up in pvp and died and had to get their xp back like the rest of us, their roar of complaint in chat made every personal loss all the more joyful.

    You see in L2, I could lose 2% of my level xp in 2-5min of pvp.. that could take me 4-8hrs to recover in pve time.

    I lost 10% one time, defending the doors to for a boss raid, took me 40+ hrs to recover the xp. FOR ONE RAID that I defended for the guild but was not required to participate in (wrong class)

    Losses in PvP were hellishly impactful. But there was sooo much PvE required to PvP alot.

    It was a PvX game but really 95% pve, 5% pvp (if you so chose)

    Comparitively, with Ashes being sooooo easy to get to level cap, I cannot see XP loss being impactful at all.. so then if your good at making money on the market.. you have little to risk in PK, PvP
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    I agree that reaching lv cap in AoC seems to be very easy.
    I am starting to see a bond between this whole lose mats on death both in pvp and pve, the goods transportation systems as well as the content progression based on the nodes being the real breaks of progress, as opposed to grinding 8h to get back 0.2%.

    Perhaps IS is serious about getting people to be involved with node progression. Perhaps there will be lots more pvp than L2. Perhaps even though it is stated that reaching max lv will take 45d with 8h per day, it will take a lot longer due to all the fun obstacles.

    Testing will tell, but I am starting to feel hopeful that the lv cap and all the gear and skills that are locked behind that will become a lot harder to attain.

    So far no other mmo has managed to make the journey better than the destination than L2. And that is why with every new expansion in L2, you had a full year of gameplay TRYING to reach the next lv range cap (and all the skills and gear locked behind it).
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    New World Beta, I only had a short time to play so did not reach high level and was constant fodder to the high level pvp`ers that were bored. Dropping all inventory and some gear in each death was really hard to deal with. Especially when it got to the stage, I had lost ALL gear and had to re-craft the core lowest level from scratch just to do anything. That was not fun.

    However, once learned how to say mostly out of harms way, doing a materials run from one settlement to another highly laden, running the back roads, on high alert, and managing to get the scarce materials to the different settlement and make good coin was a high reward.

    With the short runs between nodes in AoC, I can see many negating the caravan system and just "drug running" themselves!
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Was there anything like karma in NW, to balance things out? Because it makes a big difference.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    In Beta, really don`t know.. Post Beta a different game
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Age of Conan beta and server kickoff was just a cluster "#%2 of pk`ing in semi-naked football team sized mobs. Absolute nonsense..

    And a skill from that were a certain class could stealth and go unseen, same class could track the trailing footsteps made for some really fun pvp..

    But dead, not so social server was the death of that game for me!
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Well none of that will happen in AoC so we are all good for the death part.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    akabear wrote: »
    Age of Conan beta and server kickoff was just a cluster "#%2 of pk`ing in semi-naked football team sized mobs. Absolute nonsense..

    And a skill from that were a certain class could stealth and go unseen, same class could track the trailing footsteps made for some really fun pvp..

    But dead, not so social server was the death of that game for me!

    I remember AoC, i played on the hardcore PvP server. I jumped off the boat from the tutorial and saw a cleric aoes and knocking back like 10 lowbies and killing them all right off the spawn. I was like i can dig this kind of pvp lmfao
  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    lol you freakin degen. I missed Conan because of Warhammer Online. They released about 2 months apart from each other and I decided to go with Warhammer. Crazy how many mmos used to come out back then. Every couple years there was something new.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Okeydoke wrote: »
    lol you freakin degen. I missed Conan because of Warhammer Online. They released about 2 months apart from each other and I decided to go with Warhammer. Crazy how many mmos used to come out back then. Every couple years there was something new.

    I wanted to try warhammer but ya it was my dad's pc and he was picking the mmorpgs at the time lol. So age of conan it was. I had my own guildy pk me i was pretty pissed as well. My guild picked up some new people since we were moving from shadowbane to AoC at that time.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    akabear wrote: »
    Age of Conan beta and server kickoff was just a cluster "#%2 of pk`ing in semi-naked football team sized mobs. Absolute nonsense..

    And a skill from that were a certain class could stealth and go unseen, same class could track the trailing footsteps made for some really fun pvp..

    But dead, not so social server was the death of that game for me!

    I remember AoC, i played on the hardcore PvP server. I jumped off the boat from the tutorial and saw a cleric aoes and knocking back like 10 lowbies and killing them all right off the spawn. I was like i can dig this kind of pvp lmfao

    To be honest, I never even thought AoC was going to have pvp.. did not cross my mind. I was just migrating from L2 with the guild that was up for trying something new.

    And.. from that experience, I hope helps a few of the non-pvp`er in ashes.. when thrown into the deep end.. if able to try for a while and overcome previous reservations.. pvp can be quite fun! it was just pvp at every corner until past the beginner zones. then levelled out..

    Made all the more fun if done with others on same side in voice chat! And, with guild members that have the same level of competitive spirit..
    That competitive collective spirit being
    a) play to win or
    b) play to have go or
    c) play just to mess around and don`t give a dam if win or lose (my guild)

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    akabear wrote: »
    Made all the more fun if done with others on same side in voice chat! And, with guild members that have the same level of competitive spirit..
    That competitive collective spirit being
    a) play to win or
    b) play to have go or
    c) play just to mess around and don`t give a dam if win or lose (my guild)
    Haha! I was bit bewildered at first.
    I am non-competitive so...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    When did I ever said that I want them to make a bdo, tera or AA?
    I dont like any of them.
    Literally everything you ask for is the way those games have done it, and any time anyone suggests anything that any of those games didnt do, you are against.

    I'm curious, you claim that Archeage had pointless PvP - what is it that makes PvP not pointless to you?
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Here is a global opinion of mine :

    AoC is a PvP game ? no
    They said they wanted to do high end PvE content, but, so you need people to reach it... if there is nothing before, no step, just have to jump the wall... sure not lot of people will simply TRY to do it.

    What i hope for the game after wiki information : an open world, with various PvE activities, from the simple quests, to high end boss... and including mainly some territory with elite ennemies everywhere, not even need to be a dungeon, but lets imagine a village of those snakeman, with no real "boss" (or nothing strong enough to be consider a "boss" outside the lore)
    In such area, getting on PvP is risky... sure it is easy gang, but it can also fast turn to a disaster due to respawn, or skill to redirect some hate or what else (could be fun ranger to be able to do it to any other PC even if not a party member :') )


    Also, about the good old time games... People should need to stop the need to stick to it... i mean if L2 is so perfect why simply not continue to play it again and again ? not even need for throne and liberty or what else.

    I want Ashes of Creation to return to old basis, including the need to travel for example, the loss of all change to please the large casual public could be an easy way to list most problem for current MMORPG in my mind. But i also want AoC to be a really new game.
    Yes, old games did lot of good thing, but it would be a poor and soulless project to not do a real new game, fitting the current possibility, but also take in consideration what was bad, and what more recent manage to do good.
    I don't want AoC to be a "2025 L2" but to be Ashes of Creation. This is also this way that this game could prove to industry there are other way to do MMORPG...
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    When did I ever said that I want them to make a bdo, tera or AA?
    I dont like any of them.
    Literally everything you ask for is the way those games have done it, and any time anyone suggests anything that any of those games didnt do, you are against.

    I'm curious, you claim that Archeage had pointless PvP - what is it that makes PvP not pointless to you?

    Again, you saying that I said those things doesnt make it true. I dont know what you are talking about, I dont want AoC to be like bdo, AA, or Tera.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    When did I ever said that I want them to make a bdo, tera or AA?
    I dont like any of them.
    Literally everything you ask for is the way those games have done it, and any time anyone suggests anything that any of those games didnt do, you are against.

    I'm curious, you claim that Archeage had pointless PvP - what is it that makes PvP not pointless to you?

    Again, you saying that I said those things doesnt make it true. I dont know what you are talking about, I dont want AoC to be like bdo, AA, or Tera.

    Then why is it that every argument you make is for Ashes to be more like those games?

    Also, you claim that Archeage had pointless PvP - what is it that makes PvP not pointless to you?
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Aerlana wrote: »
    I don't want AoC to be a "2025 L2" but to be Ashes of Creation. This is also this way that this game could prove to industry there are other way to do MMORPG...
    I think the main problem is that Steven himself started this game out as "I want to make those old games but better". He's making a game that he himself loved and those happen to be the old pvp games that would probably not fly these days with the majority of mmo players.

    And at this point I'm not sure if anyone would be willing to make a "new" mmo. Pretty much every mmo out there (and just games in general tbh) are just either copies of older stuff or are heavily inspired by that old stuff (not even counting all the remakes and remasters). And because of that we have ourselves a stale genre that's barely moving forward and quite often just moves back. But imo moving back to try and do "the old stuff" can be good because it can show that the old stuff is still good, which could potentially break vicious cycle. Old stuff liked to try new shit and experiment, so if a few games prove that this old experimental stuff still works, it might show to execs/investors that it's ok to experiment again (though I doubt it).
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Half normal death penalties and no Corruption is not "risky". It's just more PvP combat.

    That being said, it's great to have a game that focuses on hardcore PvP.
    Of course, that is not going to be a game for everyone.
    As long as the game can maintain a high enough population to keep the servers going... that's great.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Half normal death penalties and no Corruption is not "risky". It's just more PvP combat.

    That being said, it's great to have a game that focuses on hardcore PvP.
    Of course, that is not going to be a game for everyone.
    As long as the game can maintain a high enough population to keep the servers going... that's great.
    Btw, what if there was some regular world event that changed the open seas flagging rules to the normal ones. Would you play the game then? You could explore the seas and most of its content during the event, while avoiding open seas outside of it.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    Events are probably too temporary for that.
    I might play the flip of that suggestion: normal flagging rules for the majority of time and an Event that auto-flags the Open Seas until the end of the Event.

    Keep in mind that you are basically trying to convince me to play on a PvP server. And I'm already reluctant and skeptical to play on a PvP-Optional server. Corruption might get me to agree to play on what is essentially a PvP-Optional server.
    People who have played L2 say that Corruption should be a sufficient deterrent for PKing that players who aren't so PvP-avoidant that they can never be PKEd should be comfortable not having a PvE-Only server.
    I was open to testing that in Alpha 2 (and I will still be testing features in Alpha 2), but I don't need to test to know that I won't play on a server that has zones that auto-flag me as a Combatant.

    If a PvP server is a 2; a PvP-Optional server is a 1 and a PvP-Only server is a 0...
    Your suggestion is still primarily a rank 1.5 PvP server that sometimes drops down to a rank 1.
    And I'm already skeptical about playing on a rank 1 PvP server.

    It's not really worth it to suggest any alternatives because there was already a good chance that Corruption would not work to my satisfaction.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Keep in mind that you are basically trying to convince me to play on a PvP server. And I'm already reluctant and skeptical to play on a PvP-Optional server. Corruption might get me to agree to play on what is essentially a PvP-Optional server.
    There will be PvE and PvP servers?
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Strevi wrote: »
    There will be PvE and PvP servers?
    No.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    All servers have the same ruleset.
    And I consider that ruleset to basically be a rank 1.5 PvP server.
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