Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Since I happen to have the quote open for a different reason...
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
No
Honestly with that mentality I'd definitely argue to not allow any bonuses or perks to reduce ganking other than the corruption system. If noncombatants are that influential, there should be a force to keep them in check.
This isn't quite the same, though I agree with you mostly (I don't mind perks that reduce or mitigate DROPS only the kind that change attacker behaviour).
There's always an average player and the hardcore player.
The average PvE player probably isn't bringing down the dragon. The average PvP player probably isn't being chosen for the Siege Assault, and the average Econ player probably isn't sitting on a pile of gold the size of a small house.
So when Steven talks about crafting being important, he's not necessarily talking about the same thing we're even talking about in this thread. Most Gatherers at the level of 'Control the Economy' don't need protections, but this wouldn't be for them.
PvP-ers will not afford paying the rent in metropolises
To lvl 3 with them.
It is the duty of the Mayor to pay for the accommodations of the Mayoral Guard.
And semi-seriously related, do we really want a game where people are bickering over 'I contracted a bodyguard but they lost the fight so I shouldn't have to pay them since I lost all my resources anyway'.
Ah, the horror stories.
sure why not. u also get half the materials you would get while gathering/farming/hunting whatever
Say your mining a rare mineral and someone comes and kills you for it. You now respawn and tell your friends hey come help me get rid of this guy I want to farm in peace.That is a completely organic pvp scenario that creates its own story.
On the other hand this guy coming to kill someone for materials is now risking being overrun. So I believe he should be rewarded xp and raw gatherable loot for the kill because he now faces being killed himself. He now has to either flee or stand his ground because everything is local and he can't just teleport away so actions have consequences and risk has reward its brilliant.
Something as simple as someone cutting down a tree can spark a full on war and the potential for something like that to happen creates the most memorable and fun gameplay you can have.
So please don't turn this into another care bear MMO and stay true to Steven's vision of risk vs reward open world pvp.
No. No cash shop outside of cosmetics. Nothing that changes game play in anyway then intended. No. I don't want that for this game. I want people to have to interact with one another, form alliances, socialize, and plan. I want to make that jerk that thinks it is okay to try and mine the same resource node I had to fight mobs tooth and nail, that it is not okay, and I can and will kill for it. I might be fair. But you see me fighting for that ore vien and think your so sneaky? I'm going to shove this pick so far up your arse that I can fly you like a flag on a pole!
*Makes angry Craglorn gathering noises from ESO.*
This game has the intended design of resources being contested. Encouraging players towards PvP and defending themselves. Exemplified by the fact combatants drop less resources, aiming to encourage players to try their luck in a fight.
In an ideal scenario... however players will often not find themselves in an ideal scenario, instead they may be severely outnumbered outgeared or both.
So in the above situation how do we make sure the gatherer is encouraged towards solutions rather than discouraged and too disheartended is an important design question.
Resources can be "contested" without players having to die. Death and the loss of resources is a large time sunk penalty for the gatherer. But being denied access to nodes by aggressors is also a penalty and form of contest and control.
So for the situations where gatherers are outnumbered and cant be encouraged to risk it in a fight, let them choose flight. Perhaps Some gatherer gear could give some long cooldown escapes (speed boosts, fast mounting, stealthing) With the attached penalty of reduced combat effectiveness for some time after using these 'get out of jail cards'.
This would still result in gatherers losing access to the resources, but escaping with their lives and mats this once, dodging the zerg. Maybe the gatherer can then come back with a group?
To this point maybe when green players respawn in town after being ganked, they can be promted to report the crime to a bulletin board or something similar, so that disgruntled players can start to from groups, somewhat organically, maybe take the fight back to their agressors.
I mention this as an addition to the already existing bounty hunter system, to encourage social play.
Along this same theme of social play, a lot of people have suggested various things like gear progression reducing dropped materials or hidden pockets etc. I might just suggest that what if some of these benefits be given conditionally who to those who gather in groups. For example 'x' friendly players near by reduces dropped mats on death or increases rarity of materials gathered by some balanced amount.
Now the reason I suggest this is to encourage group play, but moreover to mitigate against the more toxic zerg scenario I outlined above. If the gatherers want to gather in groups, and a group of gankers look to attack them, maybe now the math becomes a bit better, and the gatherers may decide to fight for what they have, in which case you have encouraged the intended interaction.
Seeing as gathering gear sits below our combat gear, and crafted gear is on par if not better than any found gear. Gatherers can join the fight at their choosing, just need to make that choice more palatable.
Anyway these are just some ideas. Risk is important, but I think its important if gatherers find themselves facing outnumbered or "unfair" scenarios they can be encouraged towards solutions rather than disheartened.
or you could just group up with people...like you would normally would in any other game withotu any reports or bulletin boards or anything.
Oddly enough one of my favorite pvp/loot systems ive played with was from The Division Dark zones.(Before they made it easy)
Things that were really nice: (there were some gear differences, but i dont think they really made a huge difference, skill was the bigger factor)
- You got the best loot so high reward.
- pvp felt very optional, but always a threat.
- certain zones for turning in(extracting) gear/loot were shared, tho had some interesting terrain to give good combat.
- Pvp wasnt just about killing of random nude gatherers, it was a system that if you choose to kill someone for their stuff then you would be hunted down by the other players.
- Everyone was armed so pvp was very skill based and made good builds and teams much more important, than running a single build thats good for killing weak players.
- There were places that felt more defendable if you were attacked and could make it there, or were on the run after killing people.
- The punishment for dying in general was very severe and much more severe for killing players. I think this honestly is very important. (for pvp the reward is high, but the risk can be immense if you arent prepared to pay it.)
- Npc werent just push over and were a real threat. This makes having good gear very important for high level pve, and to be prepared for a gank.
My Take aways and what i would like to see:
- A Pvp system that rewards really high(full drops) but makes pvp players have to really want it and be prepared for the consequences.
- Something like a horn that can call allies or other players to help if you are attacked as a gatherer or non pvper. (You would need to have a good record with the area to have the horn so peeps dont abuse)
- have systems in place to have guards for gatherers/caravan defenders so that the defenders get very good rewards for completing their mission(encourages good players to defend)
- Give gatherers and weaker combatants better gear for getting away or call allies for help(speed/stealth/etc. so it doesn't feel so hopeless to run away/survive long enough.)
- Make groups that go pvping together be bigger targets to be hunted. Single assasins would be better at stealth, where as warparties would be seen coming. That way big groups would have a solid disadvantage instead of being the best choice always.
These are just a few of my ideas. I really enjoyed playing pvp when it felt like you had to be intentional with it, but also it was fun trying to kill someone then get out or hold down a fort until they gave up. it gave a lot more reward for pvp and pve players actually felt empowered to fight back/ work together and not always scatter.
Some people probably will start hitting you as bait, if you don't fight back they will probably leave.
It could be nice picking a fight with a green by casting a spell that has almost no damage just to tease the guy, maybe he wants to fight, who knows
Then if you kill someone who looted many he will look like a loot piñata
I imagined something like that too. A hc-PvP-island in a PvP ocean. No death penalties, no exp-debt...nothing. It shouldn't have any exclusive content(except maybe a title or smthg cosmetic) and should only be profitable on a good run. So noone has to go there, but you have a real hc-PvP zone and an area where you really should only go with many friends, because there be dragons.
On topic: Could also steer away some of the more toxic PKers from the gatheres.
Great ideas. I like. Bump.
I like the basic concept, but I would modify it by making the "stolen" flag local only. Once the marked resource is moved to another node (leaving the zone of influence by x node(s)) it would be gone. That way, the people looting others will have to either carry the materials on themselves for a longer period of time (and thus risking losing it by being killed themselves), or transport the resources through the caravan systems (a PvP centred gameplay).
I like this suggestion. Attack on sight from town guards too? NPCs refuse to buy stolen goods?
Only the NPCs having to manipulate the goods (if we were to roleplay the interactions) should have a different reaction to the stolen flag. So, no special reaction from the guards. NPCs vendors could buy at a lower price than they would otherwise pay or refuse to buy if it was stolen from a citizen of the node. There could also be variations depending on the type of node, perks from social organization the seller has, rules set by the mayor/citizens, etc. So some cities could be pirate heaven accepting anything at no penalty and other strict law abiding node where stolen items can only be traded on the black market a.k.a the players.
*edit: Other players interacting with the items should also see the tag, and decide how to react to it.
this is going into the right direction imo
First i would like to say that i really like the concept which you have about gathering and pvp so far, but I have a question. As far as i understand the idea of the corruption system is to heavely reduce griefing without sacrificing open world pvp (which is great i really love that), but there is something which i dont understand. As it is written bellow
"The primary means to remove corruption is through death. Multiple deaths may be necessary to remove all corruption.[34][35]
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[36]"
Corrupted players can remove significant portion of corruption by just dying, and when they die they can drop gear which they wear and the other penalties for dying are x4. Does that incentivize a corrupted player to just go out naked with everything stashed in a bank and just die again and again to clear his corruption without any meaningful penalties and then just go back to the bank take his items and start pking and griefing again?
Thanks for your time and best regards!
One problem I see, is with the bounty hunter system. What will keep you from gifting a bounty, that's on your head to a buddy of yours?
Exactly this is my concern and i have seen that happen many times in L2 and perfect world, so a red person just call a friend to kill him to cleanse his corruption without the risk of loosing anything, which in my opinion is the main factor which would make a griefer think twice. If this penalty can be bypassed in this simple way then it is not very effective or i just misunderstand the system. I think the cleansing of corruption should require from the corrupted person to go out in the world geared and risk his gear for his actions.
Exactly this. I have bounty on my head and i can loose my gear so i call a friend to kill me while i am naked to cleanse me and also earn the bounty. Even if i am not naked the friend will just loot me and give me back my items ... i am not sure that dying as corrupted person should cleanse you because this could be abused
But i really like the bounty idea, one of my favorite activities was aways to hunt down griefers
The only problem is the bounty/bountypoints you could give to someone of your choosing.
it depends what is "long time" if i can get rid of my corrupted by just getting killed by a friend without loosing anything and then just keep my char logged in to cleanse thats a potential problem, because griefers usually play more than 1 char anyway so there is no problem to bench one char for a while if it means that it will be cleansed without any real penalties. Thats why i believe cleansing your character from corruption should aways put you in a risk to loose your items by forcing you out in the wild with your gear on (some kind of quests or killing strong mobs or etc).
yes thats why in my example i said that the corrupted person bank his stuff not just put them in the inventory.