World bosses as a driver of PvP needs to have relatively quick spawns or set/announced spawn times considering that travel times are going to mean something in this game.
I have always thought the intention was to surprise the players/make them unpredictable and let the team that had the best communication/mobilization win the day. I think that is the point of the events system, and everything.
I have always thought the intention was to surprise the players/make them unpredictable and let the team that had the best communication/mobilization win the day. I think that is the point of the events system, and everything.
While somewhat true, this usually just comes down to "who has at least a single player willing to sit in that place and wait for the boss to respawn". Or alternatively just a bot of some sort that's gonna ping the GL about the boss spawning.
I know many PvP players that get disappointed when they find out that the best gear comes from doing Raids and Dungeons (matt drops) and crafting
They wanted to do PvP and farm points to buy a PvP set, like in other PvP games, but they can't, they need to do PvE
Ive been playing a lot of pvp centric mmos from more recently Mortal Online 2 to Crowfall and further in the past Darkfall to Shadowbane and so on.....what do you mean by farm points to buy pvp sets in an mmo ? Every sandbox mmo with a focus on pvp I've experienced required me to also pve for gear to some extent.
The Dünir Hold Mithril Warhammers,Thanes of the Keelhaul, Dünir scourge of the oceans, Warhammer First Fleet Command of The Dünzenkell Nation, friends to the Dünir Dwarves of the Dünhold.Hammers High!
Vox, did you read my comment that Noaani was responding to?
I said there "what if there's mobs that can hunt you throughout the seas", meaning that the mob would never let you go unless you came off onto land or killed it. Noaani said "no, I don't think the seas will have such mobs".
And when presented with the fish boss, Noaani said "yeah, that's a boss I'd imagine will be in the game", that is a huge dude who just flops around or, at best, has some range of operations in one location. Hell, even if it's a roaming boss, that is still not a "mob that I was talking about".
I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game.
Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best.
AOC isn't a game designed around APM or reflexes, TTK is 40 sec+, latency will probably be 60+ for everyone. A PVP scenario is always unique in a game like this because skill variation will always exist, the top .01% of players will always have an advantage but they are nowhere near the representation of the masses and definitely not a representation of why PVP is always unique. That skill variation will mean skill combos are messed up, positioning screwed, communications misinterpreted, you could put an 8v8 in a single km^2 and record every fight for the next 5000 fights, and every one would be unique, positioning, skills used etc. Even if its only tiny details, they will be different, and the adaptations will only happen because its a player reacting instead of code.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The PvX in my opinion is that they are intertwined.. you will have to deal with pve mobs while pvping and you will have to deal with hostile players sometimes while pveing.
Well, I might agree without a permanent zone that auto-flags people as a Combatant.
If everyone is auto-flagged as a Combatant, that's a PvP-centric game.
And then, from the PvEer perspective, PvX becomes irrelevant.
The PvX in my opinion is that they are intertwined.. you will have to deal with pve mobs while pvping and you will have to deal with hostile players sometimes while pveing.
Well, I might agree without a permanent zone that auto-flags people as a Combatant.
If everyone is auto-flagged as a Combatant, that's a PvP-centric game.
And then, from the PvEer perspective, PvX becomes irrelevant.
Depends what satisfies you as a PvEer. It's a spectrum of personalities.
Since the primary purpose of the ocean is likely to be trade, they are not likely to put in mobs like you are talking about.'
You may have the most forum posts, but i think you pretty regularly just make things up.
While I may have the most posts here, it seems I also have the most replies to posts where people haven't read said post.
I didnt say the ocean wont have raid encounters - in fact if you actually bothered to read the post before replying to it (or bothered reading the post I was replying to), you would see that I specifically said what kind of raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean.
The bosses I do not expect to see in the ocean are ones that will hunt after players (it's literally right in the quote I was replying to).
So, after saying I dont expect raid bosses in the ocean to hunt players, and then saying what i do expect from raid bosses in the ocean, what is the point of you "calling me out" by showing a picture of an ocean boss that would fit the bill perfectly of one of the encounters I said I expect to see?
Or did you only get two sentences through the post, not understand the context, get all excited that you thought you had some means of catching me out and rushed to post it without actually understanding what I had said?
I mean, either way, you literally just quoted a post where I said what raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean, said I have no idea what I am talking about, and posted a picture of one of the raid encounters I just said I expect to see as proof (for those paying attention, the above mob is what I expect to be a roaming ocean boss akin to Archeages Leviathan).
That is clearly also made up.
I mean, the great thing about forums is that quoting exists.
then there were exactly two raid mobs on set spawn timers in set locations (one of which had a set path, the other was stationary). Both of these mobs were in locations where it was easy to avoid if you wanted to.
...
.
Since Ashes so far seems to basically just be taking things directly from other games with only one or two new ideas thrown in, the above is basically what I expect Ashes ocean content to be.
So yeah, this is the post you cut your quote above out of, and is literally me saying the types of ocean raid mobs I expect to see in Ashes.
Made up indeed.
I know you probably got all giddy at the prospect of proving me wrong - but try to not be an idiot.
I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game.
Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best.
AOC isn't a game designed around APM or reflexes, TTK is 40 sec+, latency will probably be 60+ for everyone. A PVP scenario is always unique in a game like this because skill variation will always exist, the top .01% of players will always have an advantage but they are nowhere near the representation of the masses and definitely not a representation of why PVP is always unique. That skill variation will mean skill combos are messed up, positioning screwed, communications misinterpreted, you could put an 8v8 in a single km^2 and record every fight for the next 5000 fights, and every one would be unique, positioning, skills used etc. Even if its only tiny details, they will be different, and the adaptations will only happen because its a player reacting instead of code.
I'm curious.
Of the following, which store had the most variation in its product offering.
Shop A has 120 varieties of Kit Kat.
Sop B has 4 varieties of Kit Kat, two Reeces products, Twinkies, Doritos, apples, bananas, two types of hot burritos, four types of cookies, Dr Pepper, Red Bull and four Ben and Jerry's flavors.
The way you are arguing about PvP variety suggests you think shot A has more variety, due simply to the fact that it sells more products that are all technically different.
I am of the opinion that shop B has more variety, because there is a greater difference in its offerings.
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited October 2022
More because Intrepid Studios has not done much marketing, yet.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep.
Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not.
Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Is the game truely pvx?
Yes, but I cannot see the weighting being 50/50.
More like 5-10% pvp and the balance pve.
Objective is more often than not to obtain and achieve rather than stop or prohibit. Once servers have got past the initial teething period, too many players will want to more their position in the world, this will mostly require pve. So pvp outside controlled events will become intermittent and strategic.
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep.
Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not.
Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG.
I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally.
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep.
Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not.
Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG.
I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally.
I wonder why you quit like most the other players, with half of them bots that are playing the game lmao. I've played the game long enough to judge it was not good lmao.
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep.
Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not.
Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG.
I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally.
I wonder why you quit like most the other players, with half of them bots that are playing the game lmao. I've played the game long enough to judge it was not good lmao.
Tbh the actual reason I quit was the rank decay and I was travelling a lot so I couldn't play as much as I needed to. PvP in that game is actually a full time job, I needed to play 10hrs a day minimum to be competitive.
But all the other reasons added to me not wanting to return as well.
That doesn't change the fact the game is still one of the most played games on steam, even after you take into account the botting.
I'd rather play Lost Ark than WoW or FFXIV tbh. But I'm strictly an Arena PvPer so I understand different games have different upsides and downsides.
@worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
@worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that.
It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top.
And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
@worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that.
It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top.
And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
Thread title: Is the goal truly PvX? https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvX: Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements.[2][3][4] It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.
@worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that.
It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top.
And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
Thread title: Is the goal truly PvX? https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvX: Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements.[2][3][4] It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.
Is the goal truly PvX?
That statement inherently shows that I understand Intrepid Studios' and Steven's stance on the topic. The whole point was getting the community to discuss the concept of PvX, which has been successful.
@worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
This is literarily a ton of people on the forum, he doesn't care though lol. He is starting new threads when old ones exist already.
It's a legitimate question and the current YT-content-creator spam about PvE vs. PvP is proof that there are alot of misconceptions on both sides of the spectrum.
I think there is a major misconception in the PvP crowd too.
We agree that AoC will not be a game for PvEers, who grudgingly accept owPvP, but actively avoid PvP whenever possible. You will have to like PvP in a general sense.
However. I don't think it will be a PvP game, with some good PvE content added either. I don't think you can just opt out of PvE except for some dungeon runs(for mats) and some grinding(for progress/gold).
My take on PvX: PvP and PvE content are intertwined in a way that one doesn't go without the other.
As a PvEer, you will have to PvP/play with PvPers to defend yourself/node, while gathering/grinding/dungeoning.
As a PvPer you will have to support your dungeon groups, crafters and gatherers. You will even have to have decent crafting/gathering levels and a good understanding of dungeons yourself.
I hope AoC won't be a game where you can just say: "I do PvP and don't care about the rest".
A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of:
- "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to."
- "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP."
I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments.
A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of:
- "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to."
- "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP."
I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments.
Imo WoW destroyed any potential for a pvx game to survive, because it created and cemented in people's minds the idea of pure duality. You either do pvp or pve. It then reinforced this idea by giving people equal gear by being good at either instead of both.
And this led to people only thinking within that duality. PvErs can never enjoy pvp and PvPers can't do PvE. And after several generations of gamers we have ourselves the current situation, where PvX doesn't mean shit, or, to be more exact, it means that "it's a pvp game that also has pve, but only pvpers can enjoy it".
A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of:
- "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to."
- "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP."
I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments.
Imo WoW destroyed any potential for a pvx game to survive, because it created and cemented in people's minds the idea of pure duality. You either do pvp or pve. It then reinforced this idea by giving people equal gear by being good at either instead of both.
And this led to people only thinking within that duality. PvErs can never enjoy pvp and PvPers can't do PvE. And after several generations of gamers we have ourselves the current situation, where PvX doesn't mean shit, or, to be more exact, it means that "it's a pvp game that also has pve, but only pvpers can enjoy it".
PvP WoW servers i don't even view as a pvp game. I view it is tackled on it for fun /challenge / story but without any real good reason.
A game designed for two sides needs to have gameplay between two sides fighting that makes sense, simply copying the pve game play loop clearly isn't going to work well. As effectively you are trying to do pvp in a pve gameplay loop.
Comments
I have always thought the intention was to surprise the players/make them unpredictable and let the team that had the best communication/mobilization win the day. I think that is the point of the events system, and everything.
Ive been playing a lot of pvp centric mmos from more recently Mortal Online 2 to Crowfall and further in the past Darkfall to Shadowbane and so on.....what do you mean by farm points to buy pvp sets in an mmo ? Every sandbox mmo with a focus on pvp I've experienced required me to also pve for gear to some extent.
I said there "what if there's mobs that can hunt you throughout the seas", meaning that the mob would never let you go unless you came off onto land or killed it. Noaani said "no, I don't think the seas will have such mobs".
And when presented with the fish boss, Noaani said "yeah, that's a boss I'd imagine will be in the game", that is a huge dude who just flops around or, at best, has some range of operations in one location. Hell, even if it's a roaming boss, that is still not a "mob that I was talking about".
AOC isn't a game designed around APM or reflexes, TTK is 40 sec+, latency will probably be 60+ for everyone. A PVP scenario is always unique in a game like this because skill variation will always exist, the top .01% of players will always have an advantage but they are nowhere near the representation of the masses and definitely not a representation of why PVP is always unique. That skill variation will mean skill combos are messed up, positioning screwed, communications misinterpreted, you could put an 8v8 in a single km^2 and record every fight for the next 5000 fights, and every one would be unique, positioning, skills used etc. Even if its only tiny details, they will be different, and the adaptations will only happen because its a player reacting instead of code.
If everyone is auto-flagged as a Combatant, that's a PvP-centric game.
And then, from the PvEer perspective, PvX becomes irrelevant.
Depends what satisfies you as a PvEer. It's a spectrum of personalities.
I mean, the great thing about forums is that quoting exists. So yeah, this is the post you cut your quote above out of, and is literally me saying the types of ocean raid mobs I expect to see in Ashes.
Made up indeed.
I know you probably got all giddy at the prospect of proving me wrong - but try to not be an idiot.
I feel like this is as close to a win as possible. Going to buy a lottery ticket today.
I'm curious.
Of the following, which store had the most variation in its product offering.
Shop A has 120 varieties of Kit Kat.
Sop B has 4 varieties of Kit Kat, two Reeces products, Twinkies, Doritos, apples, bananas, two types of hot burritos, four types of cookies, Dr Pepper, Red Bull and four Ben and Jerry's flavors.
The way you are arguing about PvP variety suggests you think shot A has more variety, due simply to the fact that it sells more products that are all technically different.
I am of the opinion that shop B has more variety, because there is a greater difference in its offerings.
This...
Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play.
(yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...)
Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing.
Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset...
People should stop to hope have the game they would love.
We can debate on more minor element :
Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc.
But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it.
WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep.
Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not.
Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
Yes, but I cannot see the weighting being 50/50.
More like 5-10% pvp and the balance pve.
Objective is more often than not to obtain and achieve rather than stop or prohibit. Once servers have got past the initial teething period, too many players will want to more their position in the world, this will mostly require pve. So pvp outside controlled events will become intermittent and strategic.
The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG.
I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally.
I wonder why you quit like most the other players, with half of them bots that are playing the game lmao. I've played the game long enough to judge it was not good lmao.
Tbh the actual reason I quit was the rank decay and I was travelling a lot so I couldn't play as much as I needed to. PvP in that game is actually a full time job, I needed to play 10hrs a day minimum to be competitive.
But all the other reasons added to me not wanting to return as well.
That doesn't change the fact the game is still one of the most played games on steam, even after you take into account the botting.
I'd rather play Lost Ark than WoW or FFXIV tbh. But I'm strictly an Arena PvPer so I understand different games have different upsides and downsides.
Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that.
It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top.
And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
Thread title: Is the goal truly PvX?
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvX: Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements.[2][3][4] It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.
Is the goal truly PvX?
That statement inherently shows that I understand Intrepid Studios' and Steven's stance on the topic. The whole point was getting the community to discuss the concept of PvX, which has been successful.
This is literarily a ton of people on the forum, he doesn't care though lol. He is starting new threads when old ones exist already.
It's a legitimate question and the current YT-content-creator spam about PvE vs. PvP is proof that there are alot of misconceptions on both sides of the spectrum.
I think there is a major misconception in the PvP crowd too.
We agree that AoC will not be a game for PvEers, who grudgingly accept owPvP, but actively avoid PvP whenever possible. You will have to like PvP in a general sense.
However. I don't think it will be a PvP game, with some good PvE content added either. I don't think you can just opt out of PvE except for some dungeon runs(for mats) and some grinding(for progress/gold).
My take on PvX: PvP and PvE content are intertwined in a way that one doesn't go without the other.
As a PvEer, you will have to PvP/play with PvPers to defend yourself/node, while gathering/grinding/dungeoning.
As a PvPer you will have to support your dungeon groups, crafters and gatherers. You will even have to have decent crafting/gathering levels and a good understanding of dungeons yourself.
I hope AoC won't be a game where you can just say: "I do PvP and don't care about the rest".
A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of:
- "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to."
- "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP."
I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments.
And this led to people only thinking within that duality. PvErs can never enjoy pvp and PvPers can't do PvE. And after several generations of gamers we have ourselves the current situation, where PvX doesn't mean shit, or, to be more exact, it means that "it's a pvp game that also has pve, but only pvpers can enjoy it".
PvP WoW servers i don't even view as a pvp game. I view it is tackled on it for fun /challenge / story but without any real good reason.
A game designed for two sides needs to have gameplay between two sides fighting that makes sense, simply copying the pve game play loop clearly isn't going to work well. As effectively you are trying to do pvp in a pve gameplay loop.