Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options
Is the goal truly PvX?
worddog
Member
This is a general question on both how players interpret Intrepid Studio's vision, as well as what players actually desire.
I seem to see a general consensus that PvP is the main focus. But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game? Sure there are NPC mobs and bosses but their importance seems to be dwarfed by the ability to PvP around them. Most people seem to only want their PvE if it also has PvP.
Rust is a PvP game, just because PvE elements exist in Rust doesn't mean people call it a PvX game.
So is this game PvX? Or is it just a PvP game?
I seem to see a general consensus that PvP is the main focus. But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game? Sure there are NPC mobs and bosses but their importance seems to be dwarfed by the ability to PvP around them. Most people seem to only want their PvE if it also has PvP.
Rust is a PvP game, just because PvE elements exist in Rust doesn't mean people call it a PvX game.
So is this game PvX? Or is it just a PvP game?
0
Comments
PvX means that for the most part, there is no separated PvP and PvE content - so Yes, the game is PvX, and no, you wont get equal amount of PvP only and PvE only content
Doesn't that definition just make most PvP games PvX? Like is League of Legends a PvX game because there is a jungle with neutral NPC enemies?
Is Fortnite PvX because they have enemy NPCs?
When I say PvX I'm not asking does PvE content exist, I'm just asking about the focus of the game. Sure you can technically call Fortnite a PvX game but I'm asking in terms of reality, like what should people actually expect.
But let's say we have two players.
Player A: Only likes PvP
Player B: Only like PvE
What do you think each of those players would feel about the game?
Would the PvPer even have many complaints if basically everything in the game is surrounded by PvP?
Whereas the PvE player, well all of their PvE content is surrounded by PvP. And all the other content is just pure PvP.
So really it's only PvX for the PvE content, which seems to work out pretty good for the PvP players.
Yes, Ashes is a PvP Centric game, you can call it PvP game if you want, but you can't call it PvE game.
However, the devs, and many in the community, including myself, will keep calling it PvX, because you can not play this game only by PvPing, and PvE is an intricate part of the game, you need to do PvE as well, so, PvX is appropriate.
They wanted to do PvP and farm points to buy a PvP set, like in other PvP games, but they can't, they need to do PvE.
So there you have it... that's the PvX part of it
When PvP players talk about PvE, they are talking about things like base population. In games like L2, where you would drag a whole pile of mobs in to one spot and AoE them down, many PvP players consider that PvE content.
PvE players do not consider that PvE content.
It is not even content - it is filler. Mobs like that are there to be run past in order to get to the content.
A boss that is in the open world that is dead easy if you have no other players contesting it, that isn't PvE content either. That is PvP content.
PvE content is specifically about bosses. If we are going to say that PvE content is important, we are saying that bosses are important. If we are going to say that a player can get by in Ashes by just AoE'ing down base population to level up and then PvP to get stuff, then as far as a PvE player is concerned, that player has not participated in PvE at all.
To me, Ashes is a PvX game ONLY from the perspective of a PvP player.
From the perspective of a PvE player, Ashes is a PvP game.
There's gonna be pve. We just haven't really seen much of it yet. We saw some things in Alpha 1.
We know there's going to be dungeons, bosses, world bosses, regular mobs, some kind of event system like goblins spawning and attacking an area, AI ships, quests, fishing, treasure hunting.
Not sure if things like the artisan system are considered pve, crafting/gathering/farming and processing on your freehold.
The only major pvp feature that I can think of that we saw in Alpha 1 are castle sieges. We saw some boss fights. Both those features looked alright, kinda rudimentary...Alpha 1'ish, but alright.
I don’t see the PvP and PvE division as wide as others, but I think it’s because I’ve seen pvx as the desired state for a long time. Fighting other players on my way to a dungeon is just expected (and desired) doesn’t mean I don’t want the dungeon content, but just walking to the dungeon is boring to me.
It is all just a lie. The cake is a lie.
In other words, there's both filler pvx and elitist pvx. Which imo makes the game PvX. Well, that is if they can deliver on their promises.
That's what I'm hoping, I'm a PvP player but strictly for Arenas. I like the rest of the game to have at least some areas to relax in, not just a permanent battleground.
Not really if i hear PvX that means challenging content and bosses as well as pvp. PvE is just dungeons and bosses, PvP mmo is liek BDO trash pve content and you mainly just pvp people (granted you are stuck doingt he pve 95% of the tiem because oft he game). Shadowbane was 100% a pvp game, had trash mobs that are brain dead and main content is fighting people.
So when i hear PvX i hear you have both not just one or filler pve content. Other pvp people would also agree with me on that...
How relaxing it will be will depend entirely on how contested the content you're doing is. That'll range from virtually uncontested to extremely contested. We don't know what the breakdown of that will be, or in other words, how contested the overall content picture will look.
We have a dev quote of approximately 20% of "dungeon encounters" will be instanced. I believe we've been told these instances won't be repeatable or farmable or something, not 100% sure.
But it is a mostly open world game with open world pvp. How relaxing certain things will be is dependent on all kinds of things we don't know right now.
I'd like to be able to do at least some PvE content without it turning into a PvP battle. That's my main thing. If all PvE progression is basically just a PvP arena with monsters I'd get tired.
You will, @worddog ... example mentioned in the two posts right above yours.
I wouldn't get too comfortable on ideas of open world PvE. There will always be some risk of PvP (even if the risk is remote) in overland content.
PvX is having no separation between the pvp aspects of the game and the pve aspects. To pvp you will need dungeons for gear and repairs.
To move trade goods you will need to pvp.
And that's what makes the game great.
In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.
Making PvP the main aspect of the game.
Do you really need to PvP? Like lets say we remove the ability to PvP. Can't you still complete the PvE content and progress normally? To my knowledge, PvP is meant to destroy rather than create content. It functions as the game's item sink no?
Players
Monsters
Politics
Environment
Economy
You will be challenged by all these things when you play at all times.
And those who get to have those things will then use them against other people who have either already gotten them or are about to get them. And it's on Intrepid to properly balance the powerscaling of those things, so that the first winners don't just immediately snowball into an unbeatable force.
If you remove pvp from the game, only those who have the bigger number of players will always win. They'll have the biggest numbers on bosses and win out in the dps competition. They'll have the most gatherers who'll be collecting all the valuables around the clock. And they will then use those resources to win in any pvp events, because everyone would have worse stuff.
Those big guilds would still have higher chances for success in the pvp version, but smaller guilds can at least do smth about that, while on pve servers you literally can't.
PvE is a circular system. You kill mobs in order to get better gear so that you can kill harder mobs so that you can get better gear so that you can kill harder mobs.
The thing is, within that circle, developers have the ability to throw in myriad variety in terms of mobs.
Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP.
When you have a circle where you PvE in order to PvP and you PvP in order to PvE,unless that PvE has that same variety (no PvP MMO has had it as yet), then you just dont have that same variety.
I have yet to see a PvX game where "monsters" offer a challenge.
Sure, they exist. They are dead easy though, and the only challenge involved when taking them on is if another player comes along.
This is kind of the point. PvX SHOULD have monsters that are a challenge outside of other players. Ashes wont have that though, not according to what we know about the game.
So it's a PvP-centric game... and then PvX can mean whatever PvPers want it to mean.
It is part of the games item sink. But also a huge part of its progression. (Because if we remove pvp the node sieges and guild wars and so on go too.)
You also almost completely remove the entire naval aspect of the game.
The open world pvp encounters for resources goes along with espionage and scouting gameplay and the ability to do anything about groups camping those resources.
PVP is an absolute must have in the game for It to function. Otherwise it's just going to be a generic pve mmo like bless offline. (With way better features and content still sure, but nothing anyone would stick around to play)