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[Feedback Request] Gathering System Update Shown in October Livestream

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Comments

  • I love the gathering so far, especially how trees interact with objects when they're falling and rocks breaking apart to reveal what's inside. The only small nick-picks I have are the trees seeming kinda rubbery when they hit the ground and berries on bushes and flower petals just falling on the ground.
  • arsnnarsnn Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    edited October 29
    Deleted due to duplicate
  • My biggest point: The gathering so far looks visually awesome. I have one major suggestion though. For a smaller tree, the current system looks amazing. However, for larger trees, it would bring a lot more realism to me if the branches shatter on impact a little like the way the rocks shatter, rather than wobbling and bending.

    What aspects of the gathering system are important to you?
    I love visually satisfying gathering so the work you are putting in to that is very important.

    How do you feel about the interaction between the surveying and gathering system?
    I like this idea. It adds more depth to the gathering system, and adds potential to learn about different things in a library or research before going out, which could add realism and fun.

    What are your thoughts regarding the land management system?
    Absolutely fantastic. I love the way that it helps players feel like they are having a real impact on the word they are inhabiting, outside of usual warfare and building destruction.

    Are there examples of gathering systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
    I really enjoyed the gathering system in New World because of how satisfying visually and audibly it was to harvest. It looks to me like Ashes are already ahead of that.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the gathering system?
    My concern would be that large organised groups might guard and prevent players from gathering in areas with the rarest materials. While I think this is an important aspect for bringing in that organic conflict into the game, I feel there needs to be a balance so that players are unable to gather certain materials unless they join a big industrial gathering organisation.
  • I like that everything is gatherable, but please don't make us chop trees for a hours with no purpose (like NW). Common trees should be usable only for building node buildings and low level items. It's more fun to spend time searching the world for rarer drops than chopping down an entire forest.
  • Trees cut down by axes aren't flat on the bottom. They look more like this:

    nm882w40dkyj.png

    That said, I think what we saw is already a massive leap forward for MMOs. If a realistic appearance is difficult for the art team, then don't worry about it.
  • With regards to the land management system, I think it would be interesting to see it as more than a punitive system. Sure, if a node is overharvested there should be a punishment for that, but I think that if players come together to nurture a node that the system should reward them and allow the node to flourish above its natural state. This could be reflected in a lusher appearance, an increased number of rare spawns, or a reduction in respawn timers for resources in the node.
  • LashingLashing Member
    edited November 2
    I think I would prefer if each tree took significantly longer to gather but multiply the wood you get from each one. This way the skyline would not be completely devoid of trees and it would be significantly harder to clear out everything. Each gathering trip would take less trees to fill your bags and progressing to master to increase gathering speed would feel really rewarding.

    I would like trees and other gatherables to combust into fire and ash when despawning simply because it fits the theme of the game.

    Also I hope this change does not mean we will not see any massively large trees in the game. I always liked the aesthetic of a massive tree canopy and tree trunks you cannot see past.

    Also this animation would make a good high end gathering tool. https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4Aoow4ZUzlq0_oT8SkxnWl4NGswyVWmW
  • The graphics and the physics were amazing, superb work! In general gathering and professions have always been part of an MMO that I have played that has them. Here is what I liked from the stream:

    - Not knowing what is inside a mining rock (apart from the rare ones where you can see the vein from the outside) was very interesting.
    - Giving multiple players the opportunity to work together to cut apart a chopped down tree for extra resources.
    - How increasing your training doesn't just mean you can collect better things, but also affects the speed you can collect them and how soon in their growth you can harvest them.
    - Surveying! I have seen this related in videos from something very similar (was it Star Wars Galaxies?) and I think this is a very interesting way for players to find resources. It encourages exploration and not to have a website open with a map that has a mark for each of the resource types (I'm sure you know what site types and games I mean).
    - Land management was an amazing idea! If you overdo the resource gathering in your area then it's going to cause problems. This encourages trade between nodes of their surplus resources for things they need, as well as invading other nodes to take what they want. A great way to stimulate activity of different types between players.
    - As for games that did gathering well, I liked the availability of resources in New World as it made sense that you could just cut any tree down. I liked the tracking on your minimap for different gatherable resources in WoW as I know I'll be one of the ones who will ride by something without noticing it.
    - Overall I'm really exited to see more types of gathering as well as more professions, including these resources being gathered in different biomes.
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  • I really liked the update. your development progress is great. <3

    I think the falling parts of flowers and bushes should vanish throu the animation by reducing the opacity to the end. In this way, it does not matter so mutch, if the animation plays always correctly. otherwise it could be hard to find a solution for every thinkeble Ground and object combination.

    just to keep plant parts from floating in the air. Sometimes a simple solution ist the best.
  • Great update. Taking gathering to the next level.

    I like how everything is gatherable. However if the 'high density' goal is reached, all the nodes might be barren without a tree in sight! This could be prevented by making the initial action the first part. e.g. chop tree, then chop log, then gather branches etc. Different gathering skill levels could maybe do different tasks. e.g. low levels could gather branches but not log. Or higher levels could split the rock pile further. sounds like you're heading that way, but wasn't demoed. Spending more time harvesting the entire tree would be more realistic and help prevent a featureless environment after a few have been busy harvesting for an hour. ;). Making each attempt to process the node again could have a higher risk of failure, but greater reward?

    Staying in one area for longer would increase PVP hunting as others could use sounds to pin point your location. Conversely working on one tree for a few minutes would less likely advertise gathering going on, (e.g. no trees = someone out there chopping). Makes the hunt more interesting and gives the gatherer more cover.

    The demo was sped up, so would be interesting to know how long the tree shows as being felled. Could stay for 30mins unless the further actions have been carried out? What's the intended cycle time?

    Happy with the idea of surveying, but think you should be able to also find stuff without. If you see something while questing then great, but if you survey you can concentrate on a particular area for more rewards etc. Good to have both.

    Land management great concept. Would need a way to prevent ... less educated players... from messing up the node. Maybe if major sets a policy then player gets less resources so encourages them to move to a different area or something.

    Art work and physics all looked amazing. OCD points that would be good to think about:
    * When the tree cracks and falls, the point it split was often not where the axe was chopping.
    * When you gathered 5 apples, 10+ appear on the floor when you've finished and then you walk away, surely they would be in your bag?
    * Cracking the rocks show the ore... then you walk away when there is clearly more there. This would link nicely to the additional steps to attempt to retrieve more from the node.

    Being able to level gathering differently to other could be interesting. e.g as you level, perhaps you can choose to harvest quieter/ Or get quieter tools. Others might choose to be able to harvest more niche variants of getting something earlier in season etc.

    Keep up the great work. Like Steven said, this is just a snap shot before Alpha2 and it will be even better by launch. The closer you can get to realism the better the emersion.

  • Alright, Morning as of the time I typing this, first off, first time on the forum happy to give my thoughts on the systems.

    Gathering systems-
    watching the Stream I barely had any complaints, in current MMO's I had a want to gather but never any drive besides "Gotta get the tree so I can unlock better tree" in AOC as far as ive seen I love that there's a risk to a gathering profession, yes I need to level my Chopping perks and skill so I can get that tree BECASUE if I dont our node could suffer from over exploitation and I'd never comfortably be able to farm that resource without heavy contest, which in turn leads me to my next point

    Land Management-
    I have never played a MMO or a RPG nor even a sandbox survival with a management system that forces you out to actually hunt, gather, mine etc. in other areas purely for the fact that all the resources in your area have been scarce, I think this is super healthy for a game and an RPG MMO at that and not to add it just makes sense, otherwise the world would go stale and the economy would crash so quick. I would like to know how quickly the fishing for example be shown/ known if it was depleted since fish generally come from an open water source.

    Surveying System-
    I love the Surveying system, no game has ever 1 done an accurate surveying system and 2 used it for actual resources ( looking at WOW ), I myself wont be Gathering resources on my main character ive already decided the class, race and professions ( Pyrai, beast master, bow and short sword/daggers and doing animal husbandry)I would like to know and it very well could be answered already, but is there going to be a system similar to surveying for animal husbandry, or is it going to be pure Exploration, I personally would NOT like a Surveying system for it, I dont want everyone and their dogs to know where a rare breed of creature is so that they can kill it before I can do whatever I need to do for it to become a Breeder creature?

    Other Gathering systems-
    At the top of my head, and im sure its in one game somewhere out there, the only system I would like is farming quiet simply, id like to be able to move my housing ( I dont know if any of this is possible ) outside the walls and into a nice area and have a small plot of land, I dont think thats a possibility with how the game is set up, maybe a semi instanced situation ( can only see guild player houses in open world, only those apart of the mayors guild's house can be seen etc. ) just something for the gatherers and the home décor players, I already understand that system may be later on if at all, but I think its a nice touch to a already amazing game and its not even out of alpha yet.

    other topics and questions-
    The bundles that come out, the customizations, ive held back on buying a few of them and still waiting for a Tulnar theme that would suit my ideology of that character, can those customizations be worn on ANY race or only the ones depicted. Secondly half off the game topic what is the study/ job title for the people working on animations of the character models and VFX im quite inspired and have a creative mindset ( I lack the drawing skill, but I still have ideas ) and would like to possibly do that as a career choice.

    And that about raps up all I had as thoughts, until I see more things at least or learn more things for a first forum post I think I did alright.
    cheers by an inspired Australian
  • DolyemDolyem Member
    edited October 28
    Looks amazing, just work on the overly rubberyness of the tree. Sound design was on point, though the character animations for logging and mining could probably use a bit more of a feeling of weight with impact and reseting for the next hit.

    What aspects of the gathering system are important to you?
    Balance in regards to the economy so there isnt an inflated amount of resources. Visuals and feel are satisfying. Sound design made to also make it so players a ways off can hear other players performing gathering tasks.

    How do you feel about the interaction between the surveying and gathering system?
    Sounds prettying interesting, definitely adds a bit more risk via having to set of shop and search an area. Need to see it in action to give a valid opinion

    What are your thoughts regarding the land management system?
    Sounds very exciting and terrifying at the same time. Just be sure to not make it incredibly easy to strip an entire node of resources in like a day. Otherwise you may need to develop a system to deter PVE griefing via people coming in and clearcutting a node while forcing defenders to become corrupted by not actually fighting against them, still leaving a negative impact on the resources of the node.

    Are there examples of gathering systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
    New World honestly nailed it for visuals and feel, but they dropped the ball when it comes to making sure gathering and economy were balanced and not saturating the market rapidly. Most other MMO's feel pretty outdated in terms of gathering.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the gathering system?
    Concerned about the implications of potential griefing via land management by going to an enemy node to clear resources while not intending to PVP to force the defenders to become corrupted.
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  • Overall some amazing progress has been done with the visual and immersive elements! Its more impressive than most games, even non mmo's. Good job and keep going :D

    Gathering systems always come with a lot of challenges, but I agree with the idea of scarcity driving decisions.

    I think the big concern that most people have will be players mass deforesting for basic equipment.(Bot armies of mass deforestation sounds like a scary thing)
    1) if the individual impact for getting enough personal resources isn't big, then the over node health will be fairly small, since a given node could have hundreds of players, it shouldn't be a massive deal.
    2) the reduced resources if advertised would encourage players who would be doing mass gathering to move to a better zone as you could probably get 50% or more resources there, which when it comes to a difference of getting 100 resources vs 150 resources, people would migrate to healthier zones for gathering, and leave barren zones alone.

    One thing that Steven mentioned was the impact of a raid boss carving its way through a zone and taking out trees.
    An idea I had was that the bones or carcass of that massive creature could stay where it was killed and provide a bonus to the node/zone where it was killed. It could increase rarity of gatherables based off of what creature it was. (A metal or rock based creature would increase mining rarity, or animal based would be like super compost for plants, etc.)
    This would give killing a roaming raid boss not just a item or collectable bonus, but also feed back into the zone itself.
    And I mean it would just be awesome to see a massive creatures bones in the middle of the forest and have it be a little bit of history of the time the players slew the great beast. (I think of Bilbo's trolls)

    "From the Zone you came. To the Zone you return." -Me

    I think surveying is a great way to give more life to gathering, but I also really like it when gathering has minigames(hit the gathering button at the right time or solve a simple puzzle like for more rewards).
    Not only does it make gathering more fun, but it also is a way of making it so players can get better at gathering by being better at the minigame.

    Another thing that wasn't touched on too much yet is how the node in a zone will affect the gatherables.
    Some ideas I had with that:
    - City size should greatly impact gatherables.
    - the Race that the city is based around would give specific bonuses (elfs like trees, dwarves their mountains)
    - Nodes could give out quests/ bounties to repopulate or do activities to help regrow resources.
    - it would also be cool to see events like diseases spread through a zone, where players would have to harvest enough of the diseased plants to not have the disease spread.

    Lastly since impact on the environment will be a thing, it could be cool to have players who train a gathering skill up can choose to have less impact, or more impact on the zone. This would allow gather raiders to hurt zones intentionally (salt and burn), and long term gatherers would be able to protect their zone( replant and protect species).

    Love the work that has already been done, and I look forward to seeing this game continuing to come to life.
  • I think Surveying can be a somewhat complex system compared to the basic system used in modern MMOs where the player simply uses an object and instantly gets access to resources. For instance, you could have a system of pylons set on your resources map that allows you to see the resource density and location of resources in a particular area. These pylons could last for a certain amount of time then fade away, requiring that the player who specializes in surveying replaces their pylons. As the surveyor improves upon their profession the length of the pylon lifespan before fading could increase.

    Individuals who specialize in creating resource maps through their pylons can sell these maps on the market to specialists or gatherers looking to harvest a particular resource. This could be especially useful for resources whose locations are volatile and often change from one place to another either naturally or due to a change in season.
  • I am glad that the Risk vs Reward was reinforced as a core vision of the game :heart:
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Gathering system is looking great, but I personally think the sound of the wood being chopped could sound a bit better.
  • I do like the ideas presented about harvesting (mining, chopping, etc), but it does bring up a major concern. What is this going to do with crafting? Is mining being the way it is proposed going to cause a bottleneck in even creating items for yourself, and/or to sell? Is the amount of trees available going to force 100k trees needed to skill up woodworking because of this?

    I did play New World for a bit, which also allows you to do the same to trees, but there really became many bottlenecks due to the amount of trees needed for crafting, the different types of trees needed that were hard to come by, etc.

    Of course all this is adjustable on the crafting level, but just something to keep in mind.
  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member
    edited October 28
    I liked very much what we saw in the gathering system video. The sounds when logging trees and mining were very pleasant but some harvesting animations need more work, especially bush and plant harvesting animations.

    When watching the gathering system video there popped up one funny question in my mind about mining:
    Will there be any meteorites in this game that can be mined? In my opinion it would be very funny that there would sometimes fall some meteorites from the sky into random locations and players could search for them and mine some rare resourses from them and use these in crafting legendary items for example.

    Overall I liked this livestream but I would have also liked to see some fishing, hunting and dwarves.
  • Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Love the progress, love the direction. Keep it up. Only suggestion would be for the chopping of trees. Maybe animate the character to chop at a 45 degree angle downwards and then the next chop 45 degree angle upwards. And instead of the tree just sliding off flat cut have the chops take bites out of the trunk until it falls.
  • LethalityLethality Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Couple questions... I don't really want to focus on the visuals, because I'm pretty certain those will be great!

    But, is there some depth in the gathering of resources you can talk about?

    - For example, do resources have properties... such as metal ore, having conductivity, density, etc?

    - Also, will resources carry multiple harvestibles where it makes sense (a tree might carry fruit, sap and wood). Can we get them all or do we need to choose which one to "spend" that resource cycle on?

    - What about quality/rarity? Will we see legendary wood (gigity) or epic herbs? Will that rarity influence the outcome of the craft it was used as input for?

    World Class Indoorsman

  • What aspects of the gathering system are important to you?
    I really liked what was shown. Discovery, surprise is a fun aspect of gathering and this showed some interesting aspects of that. Visually it's 90% there, looks great.
    Bot Resistance is important. The static nodes will be heavily bot targeted. So the concern would be that static node resources are over supplied to the market while random nodes are less so. Anyway to make them all random?
    Reducing the tediousness of it is important as well. You had mentioned mini games before, adding a mini game to the harvesting could be a great addition. Even something basic like a three timed click like in many golf games for swinging an axe or a pick could make it more interesting ( and reduce bots )

    How do you feel about the interaction between the surveying and gathering system?
    Sounds interesting, especially with regards to hidden nodes and more detail about items. Will have to see it but it sounds good on the surface. I think that surveying revealing important hidden nodes would be a very good thing.
    A major question is just the time sink of setting up and running the survey vs just whacking nodes. If I can clear an area of rocks in the same time it takes me to setup a survey, then the purpose gets muddy.

    What are your thoughts regarding the land management system?

    Sounds interesting but complicated. Again, botting will cause major issues with trees for example. Just the first influx of players will cause issues. It was unclear how the land management system will actually work. Does the major actually prevent players from cutting down trees past a certain point? Are bounties automatic? If a green gatherer that is a non citizen cuts down a tree that is "protected" by the land management system, do they get flagged for PvP?

    Are there examples of gathering systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
    There were lots of systems that worked well when they first came out. Hell, even Everquest had a good system when we first started playing. I think they all have become the same recently. Do something new, something surprising. Anything else will feel recycled IMO.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the gathering system?
    Excited and concerned both about all things harvestable. Excited because it looked great in the video. Being able to look at a tree and say "redwood, great" or "pass". Concerned because 1) seems like there will be ALOT of harvest nodes. Does the math work? Just less resources per gathering node event I suppose.. but the concern is about flooding the market. 2) Areas getting scraped and barren. One hand-cool. It will be a great visual indicator to move on. BUT, could make areas seem empty and not as cool.

    Other stuff:
    Multiplayer harvesting: very cool. I like the idea of gathering groups alongside adventuring groups...I can't think of another game like that right now. Again, mini game that and it could be fun.

    UI: very cool and minimal. thumbs up.
  • BaSkA13_BaSkA13_ Member
    edited October 28
    I'm very happy that gathering resources is a one click/keytap action. Thank you for that, Steven and devs.

    I'm also very happy that the gathered resources automatically go into your inventory. Thank you for that, having to pick up items from the floor is annoying and a waste of time/energy.

    I'm not sure how I feel about not being able to find rabbits if there are too many wolves or not being able to find wolves if there are no rabbits around, basically the nature/ecosystem mechanics. Maybe it works and makes for better gameplay and economic opportunities or maybe it's just added complexity which is cool while it's a novelty but becomes annoying overtime, who knows.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎵
  • Hi Team and everyone,

    Very interesting video, I am getting excited as these gathering/harvesting systems develop and how it will be implemented for use in the respective professions!

    I would very much like to give my 2 cents on your questions regarding your video and with my experience in MMO's and other genre's that involve gathering such as survival games.


    What aspects of the gathering system are important to you?
    It has to feel rewarding in the terms of progression, In that regard I am wondering if you have considered a gathering XP system in the sense similar like FFXIV ?
    Just plain gathering from A to Z in order to produce is plain and boring to me. Having something of a gathering experience accumulation which you can invest into lets say expertise surveying; Being able to better identify what possible resources a harvestable could yield and the possible amount depending on the quality tool you are using. Or being able to invest into be an efficient harvester i.e. getting more resources out of 1 harvestable.


    How do you feel about the interaction between the surveying and gathering system?
    To give an opinion about this, I would need to see the UI concerning how the surveying is working exactly.
    What comes to mind is what I remember from World of Warcraft that you would be able to see the harvestables in your minimap.
    I think Surveying would be better implemented as a trained skill as explained in the previous answer.
    I have played my fair share of survival games where you rely on your eyes to identify the possible resource which makes it more immersive in a sense. Having the Surveying as a skill that you can learn would make more sense in the thoughts of specific resources that you might want to farm, making it a quality of life skill to learn.


    What are your thoughts regarding the land management system?
    That is a tricky one. It would depend on the players behaviours and other variables.
    In New World, it was always trying to find the right pathing, being ahead of other gatherers so you could either "dominate" the market or craft more of the items that you need to make in order to use/sell.
    I would say that you should test this with the testers and see how they behave and make balance adjustments where you guys feel it's needed. It's your intrepretation of how you want it to be and players will always find a way be it efficient or inefficient to make something work.


    Are there examples of gathering systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
    Like prymortal has answered, I agree with the opinion about the gathering system in FFXIV, it is a game in it's own and a fun way to level up a new "class" for gathering.
    In addition, I enjoy(ed) gathering in a survival game called Scum where for example you chop a tree and you get more than just wood, you also get branches to make long stick and short sticks which are usable for other recipes to craft. In an MMO sense I am used to being able to craft sticks from the block of wood.
    Perhaps you can get some inspiration from other genre's gathering system as opposed to only MMO's.


    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the gathering system?
    I am concerned that I am gonna be way too excited to spend more time gathering in awe from what you guys displayed rather than doing dungeons ...
    As long as it does not end up like a crafting system that New World has. Too much resources needed to craft something. I hope that your crafting system will make sense as opposed to the crafting system that New World has, for exmaple that they simply multiply the next tier by such in which you would need thousands of the basic material in order to end up with only 10 units that you can craft only 1 item with.
    The crafting has to make sense. I am very excited to see what you guys are going to do exactly with the crafting UI and the interactivity that you guys mentioned in an earlier video.



    You mentioned interactable gathering with 2 people, that would depend on how the yield would work; would it be rewarding for both players?
    Would it give a better reward ? i.e. mine a rock with the 2 and you would have a small chance to find gold or something.
    Personally it is not something I would consider unless there is some substantial benefit to do this.


    As I had mentioned in my first answer, a seperate talent tree for gathering / crafting would make it more interesting to do more with gathering / crafting.
    For gathering in general:
    - talent points to invest in better yield or better chances for rare materials
    - talent points to invest in better tool durability (becoming more efficient in using certain tools)

    For crafting in general:
    - talent point to invest in better quality crafted item(s)
    - talent point to invest in more efficient crafting (requiring less material to craft certain item(s))
    Not saying that this is a must, however it makes gathering/crafting more immersive and rewarding in that perspective.

    What I loved about vanilla World of Wacraft was the talent tree, it used to have lots of choices in which you could craft specialised build and not just a "meta" build. I loved testing out what would happen if I invested in that talent node to see the results.

    Seeing as you guys are making the dream come true for any MMO fan out there (no pressure intended) I am 100% sure you guys are going to deliver. Each update just warms up my heart and makes it all worth the wait for the release.

    Thank you for reading.
    Raikacchi

  • SuraSura Member
    edited October 29
    Loved auditory queues of the gathering and the animations.
    One thing that was surprising was that every tree/rock/bush can be harvested. At first i was against the idea because it introduces a lot more material into the world and thus affects the economy.

    But as i was watching and thinking about it, I think that the random aspect of the mining for example really helps the gameplay. And let me explain why:
    This mechanic actually protects the gatherer focused players because of the randomness, its harder to quickly and easily find the material you need on a whim. It also indirectly makes me a "combat focused player" for example not want to waste my time because im really inefficient compared to a gatherer. A gatherer will probably have a backlog of materials, they will also be able to find the material faster, mine it faster etc.

    I arrive at the conclusion, that a gatherer will be tenfold better than me at gathering, maybe i should focus on my preferred gameplay. With that in mind, it stands to reason that instead of trying to fulfill many roles of the game at once, like for example WoW where you can easily be sulreliant. I can now focus on doing the thing im good at and possible earn gold through my activities to buy the materials i need.

    It creates a positive gameplay loop, because both players in the example are doing what they enjoy most and both of them are making each other relevant in the world.

    Another thing entirely, If you are going to allow players to damage a biome's or Zone of influence's gatherables, a gatherers main income is probably coming from the lower end mats since they are plenty and the most used. and a crafters main income will come from the high end crafting they do - that means that when a crafter masters their profession they can also opt into the most fruitful part of gathering by only invest few points into that tree. Now theres a conflict because the gatherer can not do the same.
    and this will possibly make crafters contribute to stripping a node.

    So maybe Crafters shouldnt be able to be gatherers when they have mastered a crafting profession.
  • Demetri SlavicDemetri Slavic Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    A higher number of gatherable nodes across the world is a great change. Love being able to have the option to chop down every tree, enjoyed that in New World.

    Loving the physics of the tree drops and such needs some polish of course, but definitely, a great direction is being taken in my opinion.

    The survey system giving you a home-field advantage for an area you have explored is an awesome concept. Love it. And therefore having nodes not be obvious is a required element.
  • SkbSkb Member
    I would love to see gatherable group and/or raid bosses, sticking to what we saw today there could be treants for chopping, golems for mining and feys for harvesting.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 28
    1) The white dots are intrusive and ugly as well as the (E)Chop commant. I hope they can be toggled off.
    Some games have the "minimal UI" option, but when selected it takes away useful UI.
    I hope that we can select and change infividual UI pieces.

    2) Will there be a secondary action of chopping logs from the fallen tree, or will the fall of the tree the point where the gatherable was harvested?

    3) a) Crafted gear will be strong, will take effort to craft, will be damaged, needing materials for repair.
    b) Not every node will have all the mats.
    c) No fast travel
    d) Rng in mining, unless progressing surveying? Why such an extra layer for unsatisfying, real life simulating activity?
    Be careful with the sparsity of gatherables. The game starts to become too difficult. Some dufficulties may not be necessary. I will love the pvp that will spring from fighting for gatherables, but maybe:
    a) gear shouldnt need repairs
    b) sparsity shoulnt be so severe
    c) do away with less interesting things that simulate real life, appear sophisticated and fun, but might end up being a chore.
    Find the balance.


    Bring out more developers to talk. I like how the people that will make such a great game get to share things and introduce themselves. Maybe they should prepare a structured speach and say stuff they want to say, instead of answering to Stevens questions. Always upon approval of disclosed info.

    The game looks great. Will look better. Take your time before release, hope you have the money to prolong development.
    People will buy into A2. Limit what we have access while in A2 to prevent spoiling the game.

    Cant wait for more.

  • "What are your thoughts regarding the land management system?"

    I'm concerned that zones will be completely harvested very quickly. I wouldn't take long for one player to cut down all the trees.

    Will there be any mechanics that players can use to prevent their home areas from being over-harvested?
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited November 4
    Definitely an improvement over alpha 1, I love the fact that the trees/plants grow from saplings into large mature trees instead of just spawning in fully grown. This is exactly how I hoped it would work. I'm hoping we see similar aging mechanics to the wildlife as well. I know this is a work in progress and it is looking good already compared to other MMOs, but here are the things I feel are missing/need improvement.

    I would like to see the impact from the tool on both the tree and the rock as you're hitting them in the exact spot you are swinging. So you would see the marks on the tree and the cut deepening as you go. The cut on the trees were too perfect, it should only look that way when using a 2 person saw. I would say that the sound of the axe hitting the tree needs some work as it is too bassey and should be more of a pop/cracking sound like it is in real life. Not only is it realistic but it's more satisfying to hear as it echoes through the woods. The falling tree physics looked quite bouncy more like rubber. Large trees typically roll off of things they hit as they're falling due to the weight and only bounce a bit when there is a big impact or when they fall flat on the ground. I would look to Valheim for tree physics inspiration as they were quite good. As for the rock, the sound of impact was nice, but I would like to see pieces of it break off and crumble apart as you are mining it. I'd like different animations for gathering, appropriate for what kind of object it is. So for harvesting apples, you don't really need to slice up the bush for that. You could just pick them or cut each branch to get the apple and put them in a bag or something. With the flowers we saw, it was mentioned that the pedals are what you harvest, but the animation didn't match that at all. The flower got wrecked pedals and all, and scattered around in a floaty animation.

    There should also be a Mini-game for gathering that is not difficult but present to simulate the activity, make it more engaging and less like it's automated. Each Mini-game would work different depending on the activity. It would not have to be twitch based or timing based. In fact, I would lean more towards less twitch based mechanics and instead have it be more about decision making. The mini-game for example would just be chopping the tree in the right places, chipping away pieces of it with each chop until its either cut all the way through, or enough for it to lose its support, fall over and snap. This would give you the freedom of aiming where to swing (Oh no not aiming, a carebear's worst nightmare!), left click to swing, left click hold and release for a more powerful swing. Using the two player saw would work by holding left click to push the saw through to the other players side and right click to pull it back. If both players are left clicking or right clicking at the same time, the saw doesn't go anywhere and creates a sort of tug of war animation where the saw is barely moving since both players are not working together and are rather fighting each others efforts. This one naturally would require some timing and teamwork to perform right. Creating games like these make it accessible to basically anyone while still rewarding those that have learned to do it efficiently. More experienced gatherers would learn ways to be more efficient within those Mini-games as they go and speed up the process. You could then have traits or passive stats as you level up that specific gathering skill which increase the effectiveness of your swings, increase yields, etc.

    I think gathering is way too fast. It should take double the amount of swings or more to bring down a tree or break a rock apart and provide more materials instead. This would also help with the impending issue of zones being cleared out by gatherers quickly and allowing more time for the resources to grow back. I really liked the lumber harvesting in Valheim, which had a second stage to it once the tree fell. You had to chop it up into smaller sections and then you could gather it. I would love to see something like that in this game too, opposed to logs just vanishing in thin air once they are on the ground. I think it would be awesome if you had to tow the sections of log back to a lumber mill or wood sawing station with a strong mount or chop it into smaller pieces put them in a cart and haul them back.

    I want to see a wide variety of trees, plants and rocks depending on where you are in the world. Pine, Oak, Willow, Sequoia, also some unique types of trees that are only in Ashes. Different sizes and shapes with the larger ones taking more swings to gather but yielding more materials. Some larger rocks and boulders as well. It would be nice to have some variation where mineral veins are found, like in large rock formations, cavern walls, Cliffsides and mountain ridges.

    My main concern is with the land management system and the likeliness of degradation. If you know players, you know that they will tear through the map like a swarm of locusts devouring every kind of resource regardless of the impact, leaving it a wasteland. People are selfish by nature, will act in their own self interest, and think about the repercussions later. Land degradation will be an afterthought to most players, so it needs be difficult to get to that point.
  • I'd love to see the tree being chipped away slightly with every swing as well as the indent in the tree being relatively closer to the proper height of the characters swing. Some chops were a little too high and clean horizontally. Starting out with a V in the side of the tree then leading to a messy break would sound and look amazing; for example, as it falls the bark breaks from the opposite end matching the audio quality which was done very well.
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