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At What Point of Player-Inactivity Should Legendary/Limited Items Re-Drop?

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Comments

  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    The purpose of the gear is not being used and dis allows its impact to be used on the server.

    If gear gives a strong stat increase it is meant to give you an advantage in the gear.

    All this is saying is, you want the unique gear to have an active effect on the server, that seems to be different than what is currently in place.



    The uniques being hoardable allows their prices to vary drastically. Allows guilds to try and save and purchase them to stockpile. Allows slowplay and major power shifts. Allows collectors to collect things.

    I think crafted legendary gear thats been over enchanted should eventually catch up to the base level of a not over enchanted unique.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Spif wrote: »
    I'm all for Unique-Legendaries not having any more power (ilvl, whatever) than other legendaries.

    The server-first kill of Mr WorldBoss gives out the Unique drops that have a special effect. Later kills of him give low RNG chances of items with the same exact stats, but no special effect. Unique in look, not in power.

    Then id say it should just be a skin with no function.

    Logically though i think that is a waste of developer time since i know what goes into making art lol. Since it has no impact on gameplay and its just a cool looking item for someone to use be it for a bit, or long term (and honestly if it is long term just sounds selfish with the work going into it so one person can use it like that lol) Art isn't just a one click button and done ai generated style.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I think we are vastly underestimating the boost one might have (i don't expect even a 2x increase) . Id say for example maybe on a weapon they get 30% more damage higher that a normal legendary pretty much with some special effects on it.
    Do you have any basis for this assumption? I'd personally definitely not want those items to have that big of an impact. I'd probably go for a +5-7 OE value over the safe limit on a normal legendary. So you're still stronger than people with normal safely enchanted legendaries, but you're not a damn god that can increase their death output by 60 damn % :D
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Spif wrote: »
    I'm all for Unique-Legendaries not having any more power (ilvl, whatever) than other legendaries.

    The server-first kill of Mr WorldBoss gives out the Unique drops that have a special effect. Later kills of him give low RNG chances of items with the same exact stats, but no special effect. Unique in look, not in power.

    Then id say it should just be a skin with no function.

    Logically though i think that is a waste of developer time since i know what goes into making art lol. Since it has no impact on gameplay and its just a cool looking item for someone to use be it for a bit, or long term (and honestly if it is long term just sounds selfish with the work going into it so one person can use it like that lol) Art isn't just a one click button and done ai generated style.

    The trick is its up to the owner. If they dont use it, if they just hang it in their house. Then yes, it is a decoration. And you are saying that a skin, a decoration doesnt cause any issues.



    The unique gear are not a gameplay mechanic that you seem to want it to be. Its like an easter egg. A bonus. An interesting piece, that is different than the rest of the game. Its there just to be cool. Not to have as a core game mechanic. Its flavor.
  • LashLash Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    A shorter period where the item can be transferred to a guild member that participated in acquiring the item. If no one claims it a longer period when the item is deleted and everything to acquire the item is reset so it becomes a race to get it again.

    I would also be more of a fan of uniques belonging to a guild and a member can spend an in game guild based currency to use it for a while. Make the currency also used for other guild buffs and gained when you do things with your guild.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I think we are vastly underestimating the boost one might have (i don't expect even a 2x increase) . Id say for example maybe on a weapon they get 30% more damage higher that a normal legendary pretty much with some special effects on it.
    Do you have any basis for this assumption? I'd personally definitely not want those items to have that big of an impact. I'd probably go for a +5-7 OE value over the safe limit on a normal legendary. So you're still stronger than people with normal safely enchanted legendaries, but you're not a damn god that can increase their death output by 60 damn % :D

    When i say 30% i mean compared to bis non legendary items.

    So bis non legendary > legendary > unique legendary.

    I'm just doing a random high ball number and personally view unique legendries as a higher tier though this is my assumption. But it is based on the more rare the item the higher the boost. It is simply my understanding they might want when someone gets it to really feel special. Though I guess it could just be the same gear stat increase as a legendary item rather than further boosted. That would feel lame to me personally though.

    5810zyw61qzm.png

    Base stats alone doesn't mean you are not going to get unique effects that make the gear better than just a stat increase
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What use is a unique legendary that's the opposite of your build?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    What use is a unique legendary that's the opposite of your build?

    Hangin on the wall, or selling for money.

    Maybe a reason to start a new character.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Exactly mate, so why would anyone want to make a unique legendary guild bound?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Spif wrote: »
    I'm all for Unique-Legendaries not having any more power (ilvl, whatever) than other legendaries.

    The server-first kill of Mr WorldBoss gives out the Unique drops that have a special effect. Later kills of him give low RNG chances of items with the same exact stats, but no special effect. Unique in look, not in power.

    Then id say it should just be a skin with no function.

    Logically though i think that is a waste of developer time since i know what goes into making art lol. Since it has no impact on gameplay and its just a cool looking item for someone to use be it for a bit, or long term (and honestly if it is long term just sounds selfish with the work going into it so one person can use it like that lol) Art isn't just a one click button and done ai generated style.

    The trick is its up to the owner. If they dont use it, if they just hang it in their house. Then yes, it is a decoration. And you are saying that a skin, a decoration doesnt cause any issues.



    The unique gear are not a gameplay mechanic that you seem to want it to be. Its like an easter egg. A bonus. An interesting piece, that is different than the rest of the game. Its there just to be cool. Not to have as a core game mechanic. Its flavor.

    Based on what they want legendary gear are stronger than normal gear.

    If you are going to try to argue legendary items should just be skins so no gameplay is involved and a team needs to throw hundreds of hours to get something made, approved and in game for one person to use I'd have to question how long that would go on being supported. When that time could be used else were is creating gear drops for all players to obtain or content in general for that game.

    My thought is most likely not long, and why i view it as a more selfish point. The reason why i say 2 weeks with it affecting gameplay gives it some more meaning atleast.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    What use is a unique legendary that's the opposite of your build?

    That is honestly another question that could be answered. My way of approaching it would be akin to what I mentioned before having the item be both a buff and a skin. (this does not mean the buff will effect everyone of equal value) But it allows rather than a more tight knit size of players that benefit from it. To a larger amount even if they don't all get equal use out of it in value.

    Ie the daggers while in your inventory (so would take up one of your equip slots) gives chance to poison, and increases poison damage done as well as give a boost to evasion against targets under the effect of your poison for every stack. Meaning if you are using a two handed sword you get some bonus effect of it, while if you used daggers you could more quickly proc double poisons on targets. But since you don't use daggers it still gives you a benefit and they look cool on you.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When i say 30% i mean compared to bis non legendary items.

    So bis non legendary > legendary > unique legendary.
    Ah, I thought you were comparing normal legenadries with uniques. I guess 30% would be roughly the jump between those tiers, though I'd prefer smth closer to 20%.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Base stats alone doesn't mean you are not going to get unique effects that make the gear better than just a stat increase
    True, but we don't know the extent of weapon effects yet, so it's hard to say how much benefit would a player get from getting a unique.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah I get your point but we don't know anything about any legendary except cosmetics...for all you know a crafted legendary could have a set bonus or the weapons could also have procs. It makes no sense fir Steven to state 'Gear will boost your toon 40 to 50%' and then the devs make a unique legendary boost you to 60 to 80%.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When i say 30% i mean compared to bis non legendary items.

    So bis non legendary > legendary > unique legendary.
    Ah, I thought you were comparing normal legenadries with uniques. I guess 30% would be roughly the jump between those tiers, though I'd prefer smth closer to 20%.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Base stats alone doesn't mean you are not going to get unique effects that make the gear better than just a stat increase
    True, but we don't know the extent of weapon effects yet, so it's hard to say how much benefit would a player get from getting a unique.

    Ya i have no clue I can only guess with his stuff. But it is pretty standard to have some effects.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Yeah I get your point but we don't know anything about any legendary except cosmetics...for all you know a crafted legendary could have a set bonus or the weapons could also have procs. It makes no sense fir Steven to state 'Gear will boost your toon 40 to 50%' and then the devs make a unique legendary boost you to 60 to 80%.

    When did I say your dmg was increased by 60-80%?

    If you are talking about my pvp kills example, as a experienced player you can do plenty with power increases. It allows you to do a lot more in pvp kill wise. It isn't as simple as you have 20% more dmg so you get 20% more kills, even more so if you are more geared and skilled that players you fight.

    What if in your rotation they died faster saving you one of your big skills allowing you to quickly work togethers other players and having more if a impact. Or that dmg in a aoe his hitting more players so that dmg increase you had from a weapon rather than 30% increase with unique effects and the unique weapon dmg increase you are now outputting 6-90% more dmg in a group situation under certain attacks.

    There is not a lot we know but I'm just making calculated guesses and also i think that is fine having a special legendary, but a player shouldn't have a item revolving around gear gameplay for half a year that makes no sense. It will have more fun element and create more interest to have that circling around at a much quicker rate 2 weeks is plenty of time imo.

    If the argument is you work and can't play that much so those 2 weeks is nothing to do, that is life. You still have 2 weeks to make a plan, get or join a war, do some pve stuff with it on the weekend, etc.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You said the unique legendary would add 10 to 30% more than a crafted legendary. If that wasn't you I apologise.

    BiS Gear lasts until expansion and sometimes beyond. The trick is maintaining the gear, it shouldn't be keeping the gear. No one would repair the gear if it was time gated. They would be used and abused. It's anti risk/reward. Time gated stuff is a real issue much like royal eggs for a glider.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    My thought is most likely not long, and why i view it as a more selfish point. The reason why i say 2 weeks with it affecting gameplay gives it some more meaning atleast.

    I understand the argument, they spend time and money making them.... however. Do they really spend that time and money on them?

    Did the game require lore. Yes. Money alreay spent.

    Do the weapons and gear require models? Yes. Money already spent. I doubt one person is over at intrepid spending this week making countless unique item suggestions nonstop or he gets thrown out the window.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    The purpose of the gear is not being used and dis allows its impact to be used on the server.

    If gear gives a strong stat increase it is meant to give you an advantage in the gear.

    All this is saying is, you want the unique gear to have an active effect on the server, that seems to be different than what is currently in place.



    The uniques being hoardable allows their prices to vary drastically. Allows guilds to try and save and purchase them to stockpile. Allows slowplay and major power shifts. Allows collectors to collect things.

    I think crafted legendary gear thats been over enchanted should eventually catch up to the base level of a not over enchanted unique.

    I missed this one, unless they change legendary gear to have 0 gameplay impact it is going to effect servers since BIS gear is going to be impact in a mmorpg that uses stats.

    I'm not viewing people stock piling normal legendary gear as ones where there is one one on the server. That could be the case still need to see the enchanting system and how it effect things. I can only imagine the unique that is enhanced.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    My thought is most likely not long, and why i view it as a more selfish point. The reason why i say 2 weeks with it affecting gameplay gives it some more meaning atleast.

    I understand the argument, they spend time and money making them.... however. Do they really spend that time and money on them?

    Did the game require lore. Yes. Money alreay spent.

    Do the weapons and gear require models? Yes. Money already spent. I doubt one person is over at intrepid spending this week making countless unique item suggestions nonstop or he gets thrown out the window.

    Money isn't already spent on models else the gear would have to be made already. The fact it needs to be made means there is a financial and of course time cost. Less gameplay means less reason to make them.

    They need to concept the item and that that approved / model and get that approved > Bring it into game engine and ensure it is working with other elements they have or need >Texture and material work > make sure there is no issues > Fx if it has any. This being a unique legendary item with only one on the server all that adds up time holding up some artist. Not to mention the revisions they will need to make and adjust if not approved on first version....

    Or they could also be using to the artist to create more expansions and content available for all people to get...These are decisions that will be made on what are prios and their goals.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm not certain a unique will be enhanced beyond safe levels. Again it would circumvent risk/reward.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    I'm not certain a unique will be enhanced beyond safe levels. Again it would circumvent risk/reward.

    Enhancing a legendary would be the ultimate risk actually. And most likely where the biggest time consuming grind of infinite treadmill would go.

    I could see bigger effects for failing and destruction all together, and I'm super against destruction ( there are better modern solutions we can come up with)
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You would risk it eventually. Though a full set of safe level crafted legendary gear would be pretty potent. I imagine I'd do weapons first lol.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    You would risk it eventually. Though a full set of safe level crafted legendary gear would be pretty potent. I imagine I'd do weapons first lol.

    More power.... me to lmao. But the normal person is going to gamble all their gear and prob go up and down in gear in time. But this is a completely different discussion at this point with enhancing.

    There are going to be legendary skins in the game if I'm not mistaken i think i heard something about that. This kind of gets back to what we were talking about before and though something i do agree with cause of the time to make them development wise.

    But if something is going to be exclusive to one player just have it be a skin. Then you get the same result and don't need to only have it sitting in your home.

    But then i get into the issue on how you obtain these things and only one player getting it, is it dumb luck or do the top end raids just get all the gear since they do world first. I'll never be able to wrap my head around a item for only one person to use though lol (in terms of it being a consistent development thing and not a once in a blue moon meme item added)
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm just grateful i don't have to compete and would just get one through luck. The pvx crafted nature of gear is a true attraction for me. I've often preferred gear which can be enhanced.

    The good news is that enchantments come from any stall (last I heard) so only the crafters will become rich and not enchanters. My enchanter will work hard on the battlefield to satiate my lust for the gear.

    I'm all for skins, transmogs and cosmetics though. If I did use a unique legendary I would try to disguise the weapon via transmog. I'm rather finicky with my toon's appearance and love people to underestimate my toons.
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  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    I sure as hell hope they don't make the unique legendaries noticeably better stat-wise than similar non-unique legendaries. I'm maybe ok with 5% better stats at the very most, but I prefer 0%. I can see it having different stats than the non-unique variant, but not stronger. I fully expect a cooler skin and maybe visually and audibly distinct effects, so the player stands out on the battlefield.

    As much as it sucks if the player goes inactive, I don't really think we should get re-drops. And no matter what, the player shouldn't lose it due to inactivity. Let the item become part of server lore and history. The only exception would be if the account got perma-banned or deleted. In that case a re-drop is ok. Or at least it should open up a chance for another unique legendary to drop, that wouldn't otherwise have dropped.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    • say you are at the top of your game, you have the best gear available,
    • have spent 6 months gathering funds to gear up to that level..
    • it would take you another 2-4 months to save up to replace any piece of your top gear to maintain that level,
    • you are leveled high enough that you cannot really xp without the gear,
    • your legendary items is a weapon.
    • you take a break for 4 months and discover your weapon is gone.
    • you cannot resume playing as you have no funds to replace
    • what happens then.
    • perhaps, the items is downgraded rather than dropped for inactivity.

    (this was the very real risk scenario in L2 when pvp`ing / pk`ing)
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Threads typically turn into a back-and-forth slugfest at this point, but you guys did bring up a couple of really good points:

    1) I don't feel like NOT USING the item should make another copy re-droppable; I'm just concerned about the player who got such an item holding the ONLY COPY indefinitely, in the case they log out and never return to the game.

    Again, on this point, I don't feel as though they should LOSE the item; Another drop should just be possible, even for items that begin the game as a 1/server-only item.

    2) It's not 100% certain yet what stats these items will/won't have, versus their lower-end derivatives. HOWEVER: If they *DO* have extra stat-bonuses, then an item should DEFINITELY duplicate/re-drop from it's source, after a certain point of inactivity by the 1 player who initially got it.

    As mentioned earlier, something that just has a unique appearance may well just serve as a door-stop, if it's either lower-level, or the player loots/obtains something better. However, obtaining the unique items will no doubt be quite a task; Why not allow for another drop, in the event that the original possessor hasn't played in X amount of time?



  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    I sure as hell hope they don't make the unique legendaries noticeably better stat-wise than similar non-unique legendaries. I'm maybe ok with 5% better stats at the very most, but I prefer 0%. I can see it having different stats than the non-unique variant, but not stronger. I fully expect a cooler skin and maybe visually and audibly distinct effects, so the player stands out on the battlefield.

    As much as it sucks if the player goes inactive, I don't really think we should get re-drops. And no matter what, the player shouldn't lose it due to inactivity. Let the item become part of server lore and history. The only exception would be if the account got perma-banned or deleted. In that case a re-drop is ok. Or at least it should open up a chance for another unique legendary to drop, that wouldn't otherwise have dropped.

    I'm curious why you think the developers should put resources in making constant unique items that end up in inactive player hands eventually? Making content is not free and it isn't a one person job either.

    Effectively i see this as a artist making random gear for people for free.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Threads typically turn into a back-and-forth slugfest at this point, but you guys did bring up a couple of really good points:

    1) I don't feel like NOT USING the item should make another copy re-droppable; I'm just concerned about the player who got such an item holding the ONLY COPY indefinitely, in the case they log out and never return to the game.

    Again, on this point, I don't feel as though they should LOSE the item; Another drop should just be possible, even for items that begin the game as a 1/server-only item.

    2) It's not 100% certain yet what stats these items will/won't have, versus their lower-end derivatives. HOWEVER: If they *DO* have extra stat-bonuses, then an item should DEFINITELY duplicate/re-drop from it's source, after a certain point of inactivity by the 1 player who initially got it.

    As mentioned earlier, something that just has a unique appearance may well just serve as a door-stop, if it's either lower-level, or the player loots/obtains something better. However, obtaining the unique items will no doubt be quite a task; Why not allow for another drop, in the event that the original possessor hasn't played in X amount of time?




    I agree it should become re-available after a while. 30 days is hella short, 6 months seems more realistic.

    But the part I'm confused by with your stance is you saying they shouldn't lose the item, are you saying that two people could end up with the same 'unique single drop legendary'?

    That doesn't feel right to me.
    Either
    A.) The original copy disappears from their inventory and get some mats/gold for the dissolved item.
    Or
    B.) If you're cool with two people having it, why not make those fancy legendary drop once a year and be ok with a few duplicates on a server .
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    But the part I'm confused by with your stance is you saying they shouldn't lose the item, are you saying that two people could end up with the same 'unique single drop legendary'?

    Normally, I'd agree with you @SirChancelot ... but the Wiki is pretty pliable on that front:

    "Certain legendary items may be limited to one per server at any given time.[7][8]"

    So, as the OP indicated, it's totally possible to have more than one "unique" legendary item.

    As for where the stat boost should land, I'm actually with @Nerror on that topic.

    5% is lower than the 6%-12% base stat improvement that Steven has planned.

    However, the "gamer mentality" postulate states that players will always try to run an optimized gear setup ... even if they aren't participating in the content that actually requires an optimized gear setup.

    Which means legendary stat boosts of under 5% would still be coveted by the vast majority of players. At the same time, a smaller stat boost removes most of the balancing headaches mentioned in page 1 of this thread.

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