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At What Point of Player-Inactivity Should Legendary/Limited Items Re-Drop?

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No one will be aiming for a unique legendary, everyone will be aiming for legendary resources. Most people probably won't even know the names of the unique weapons unless we get a list.

    I'm a hardcore min/maxer and from my stand point a fully crafted legendary set will provide much more scope and nuance for a character build.

    It took 52 weeks to get my legs, 75 weeks to get my chest, 15 weeks to get my gloves, 34 weeks to get my shield, 1 week to get my sword, 52 weeks to get my cloak, 71 weeks to get my boots and 59 weeks to get my shoulders when I wanted dropped bis last time.

    It took about a year in bdo and I suspect it will take about a year in Ashes too. Crafted gear can be acquired without fuss or hassle. It is the best way to obtain bis gear and the current approach in Ashes is perfect for my needs.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    There can only be one. It's like changing the first mayor's name because the player is inactive. They were the first mayor, they deserve the oner.
    There's only one ring of power
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    There can only be one. It's like changing the first mayor's name because the player is inactive. They were the first mayor, they deserve the oner.
    There's only one ring of power

    I can't equate this example to the looters/crafters/obtain-ers of a Unique Legendary item, since mayors are simply a matter of record.

    No one's suggesting that we wipe/erase the name of the player whom first loots a specific Unique Legendary; It just feels to some of us that if they are gone long enough from the game, it might be a good idea for an exception to be made for a duplicate Unique Legendary item to then drop another, separate item. Yes, this would mean it's no longer 1/server - but at least it would be around for *someone* to actively enjoy having/pursuing.



  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    Dev's should spent tons of hours creating content to throw in the garbage as "lost" history. Is the way i read that.

    Just going to say any rp notions of the only"one" item is 1000% silly, and not backed by any kind of game design.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    I mean, this isnt really up for debate.

    Steven has already said such items will be reallocated to drop tables. The only question remaining is what triggers this.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    I kind of like this idea.

    It's really NOT that much work to re-skin the same item, with some minor graphical modifications - especially if you're just changing the color of an item; If a Unique Legendary mace drops and the special graphic for it is something like an orange "line of lava" constantly flowing down the long hilt, it's pretty easy for the graphic designers to just re-color the lava to purple, then re-name item when the near-duplicate goes back into the loot tables.



  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    I'm kind of ignoring most of the discussion that hads happened in this thread, and going back to the original question.

    IMO, 180 days inactivity is all good, but 30 days without subscription should also trigger the item going back to the loot table.

    The reason for this is simple. If you have a unique legendary item, it is something that your guild earned and entrusted you with. Essentially, it is guild property that you have current possession of.

    If you are going to be away from the game for a few weeks, you would probably want to hand that item off to someone else in your guild. You are not going to take a 6 month sabbatical from the game without handing that literal-best-item-in-the-game-that-there-is-only-one-of-on-the-server-that-your-entire-guild-helped-obtain-and-then-entrusted-you-with to someone else in your guild.

    Any player with such an item still in their I inventory rhhatvis unsubscribed from the game for 30 months probably had a falling out with their guild, and likely wont ever be back.

    A few people here are probably thinking something like "I'd never hand an item like that back to my guild if I was leaving the game for an extended period".

    To this, I have two comments. The first is that you probably aren't ever going to be in a guild that is capable of getting an item like this.

    Second, if you are in such a guild, the above attitude will see you excluded from potential running for an item such as this. Such an item will be given to the most suited player that the guilds leadership fully trusts - and anyone with the above view wont have that full trust.

    Subscription time is an interesting thought.
    I would still say at least 60 not 30.

    But I feel the bigger issue there would be tying anything in game to subscription time, I'm not sure those two pieces of information should ever be related to each other.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    I kind of like this idea.

    It's really NOT that much work to re-skin the same item, with some minor graphical modifications - especially if you're just changing the color of an item; If a Unique Legendary mace drops and the special graphic for it is something like an orange "line of lava" constantly flowing down the long hilt, it's pretty easy for the graphic designers to just re-color the lava to purple, then re-name item when the near-duplicate goes back into the loot tables.




    Exactly. And the new item goes with a new story arc.
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    Dev's should spent tons of hours creating content to throw in the garbage as "lost" history. Is the way i read that.

    Just going to say any rp notions of the only"one" item is 1000% silly, and not backed by any kind of game design.

    I don't think you understand how easy it would be to change a color, give a new name and assign to a new story line. You seem to be underthinking this.
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    I mean, this isnt really up for debate.

    Steven has already said such items will be reallocated to drop tables. The only question remaining is what triggers this.

    Everything is up for debate. Why else would you be here?
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    I mean, this isnt really up for debate.

    Steven has already said such items will be reallocated to drop tables. The only question remaining is what triggers this.

    Everything is up for debate. Why else would you be here?

    To discuss the things that Intrepid havent already clarified.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    I'm kind of ignoring most of the discussion that hads happened in this thread, and going back to the original question.

    IMO, 180 days inactivity is all good, but 30 days without subscription should also trigger the item going back to the loot table.

    The reason for this is simple. If you have a unique legendary item, it is something that your guild earned and entrusted you with. Essentially, it is guild property that you have current possession of.

    If you are going to be away from the game for a few weeks, you would probably want to hand that item off to someone else in your guild. You are not going to take a 6 month sabbatical from the game without handing that literal-best-item-in-the-game-that-there-is-only-one-of-on-the-server-that-your-entire-guild-helped-obtain-and-then-entrusted-you-with to someone else in your guild.

    Any player with such an item still in their I inventory rhhatvis unsubscribed from the game for 30 months probably had a falling out with their guild, and likely wont ever be back.

    A few people here are probably thinking something like "I'd never hand an item like that back to my guild if I was leaving the game for an extended period".

    To this, I have two comments. The first is that you probably aren't ever going to be in a guild that is capable of getting an item like this.

    Second, if you are in such a guild, the above attitude will see you excluded from potential running for an item such as this. Such an item will be given to the most suited player that the guilds leadership fully trusts - and anyone with the above view wont have that full trust.

    Subscription time is an interesting thought.
    I would still say at least 60 not 30.

    But I feel the bigger issue there would be tying anything in game to subscription time, I'm not sure those two pieces of information should ever be related to each other.

    I would agree with 60 days (or even 180 days) for something like property in game, but not a legendary item.

    My expectation for Ashes is that there will be new gear added at least every 6 months, including a good amount of top end gear. This would mean that even legendary unique items aren't going to be best in slot after a year and a half or so.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I think these 2 things are kinda related.
    Neurath wrote: »
    It makes no sense to boost a dropped legendary above safe levels of enchantment. That alone would be a big resource save. Otherwise, there would be less risk/reward for enchantment. I don't feel anyone should get a head start in enchantment.
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not a case of rarity or less. Its a case of people believing it is BiS. BiS is whatever fits your class best and two weeks of having a weapon is meaningless. What can be achieved in two weeks? You probably couldn't even gain enough resources in two weeks to make a replacement legendary. Even myself who games 16 hours a day could probably not make enough resources to fully repair or create a legendary in 2 weeks.
    I feel like you're assuming that unique legendaries will auto-adjust to the one who dropped them to become their BiS on pick up. I don't share that supposition.

    Uniques will have either super specific stats with some special effects or just random stats with special effects. If they have super specific stats - they become the most sought-after item in the game and they will probably cost like a whole damn legendary set of gear. So unless we know those stats and effects before we even drop the item, there's no way to know for sure that the one who drops it will have it as their BiS item.

    And if the stats are random, the item's target audience becomes even smaller, so its potential to be someone's BiS is barely existent.

    And with all that being said, I think it'd be completely fine to give the ONE-OF-A-KIND item stats that are a bit higher than your normal legendary. Of course craftable legendaries will be rare too and will be hard to acquire, but they're not one of a fucking kind for the whole server. And those crafted legendaries WOULD be in fact BiS stuff, because people would be crafting them with their own build in mind, min-maxing its stats to all hell. So even if Unique's base stats are a bit higher - no one, outside the perfectly fitting builds, would care about that boost.

    Also, just to be clear, I'm talking about pure vertical stats. Say, normal legendary weapon has 100atk. +3 is the safe limit of OE and it gives 5atk per level. I'd want Unique weapons to have smth like 120-125atk. That is it. Any additional stats, any special effects - anything of that sort is completely unrelated to the base power of the item.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I don't think they should. That item is legendary and it is now gone forever. That doesn't mean a new item could not take it's place.

    Are you suggesting they need to make new weapons and never use the previous legendary anymore for players to get?

    Yes. It should go into the history of the server as thought to be lost.

    Dev's should spent tons of hours creating content to throw in the garbage as "lost" history. Is the way i read that.

    Just going to say any rp notions of the only"one" item is 1000% silly, and not backed by any kind of game design.

    I don't think you understand how easy it would be to change a color, give a new name and assign to a new story line. You seem to be underthinking this.

    This is the bar you think IS is going to set for unique? They will just be reskins?

    If a legendary is a reskin and stats are the same or less than high end gear needed to get that. Guess it can stay dead content lmao.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    I think these 2 things are kinda related.
    Neurath wrote: »
    It makes no sense to boost a dropped legendary above safe levels of enchantment. That alone would be a big resource save. Otherwise, there would be less risk/reward for enchantment. I don't feel anyone should get a head start in enchantment.
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not a case of rarity or less. Its a case of people believing it is BiS. BiS is whatever fits your class best and two weeks of having a weapon is meaningless. What can be achieved in two weeks? You probably couldn't even gain enough resources in two weeks to make a replacement legendary. Even myself who games 16 hours a day could probably not make enough resources to fully repair or create a legendary in 2 weeks.
    I feel like you're assuming that unique legendaries will auto-adjust to the one who dropped them to become their BiS on pick up. I don't share that supposition.

    Uniques will have either super specific stats with some special effects or just random stats with special effects. If they have super specific stats - they become the most sought-after item in the game and they will probably cost like a whole damn legendary set of gear. So unless we know those stats and effects before we even drop the item, there's no way to know for sure that the one who drops it will have it as their BiS item.

    And if the stats are random, the item's target audience becomes even smaller, so its potential to be someone's BiS is barely existent.

    And with all that being said, I think it'd be completely fine to give the ONE-OF-A-KIND item stats that are a bit higher than your normal legendary. Of course craftable legendaries will be rare too and will be hard to acquire, but they're not one of a fucking kind for the whole server. And those crafted legendaries WOULD be in fact BiS stuff, because people would be crafting them with their own build in mind, min-maxing its stats to all hell. So even if Unique's base stats are a bit higher - no one, outside the perfectly fitting builds, would care about that boost.

    Also, just to be clear, I'm talking about pure vertical stats. Say, normal legendary weapon has 100atk. +3 is the safe limit of OE and it gives 5atk per level. I'd want Unique weapons to have smth like 120-125atk. That is it. Any additional stats, any special effects - anything of that sort is completely unrelated to the base power of the item.

    Of course they are related, I wrote them both and haven't changed my stance. I'm fine with the redrop when someone leaves a server. I just don't like redrops on a timer.

    Furthermore, you make a good point as to why unique legrndaries might be useless. If they are useless they should be removed from the game. I still believe they will be on par with bis gear, thus, bis themselves.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Furthermore, you make a good point as to why unique legrndaries might be useless. If they are useless they should be removed from the game. I still believe they will be on par with bis gear, thus, bis themselves.
    My point wasn't about them being useless. My point was that their use would be super limited, so the person who's the first to pick them up would most likely not have them as their BiS. So the main use would be to find a buyer and sell that shit at an insane price.

    But this value would only exist if the item is completely permanent and personal, not the shit Mag was suggesting. If Uniques are anything but permanent - they would, in fact, be completely useless.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah I agree fully. I would also sell a Unique Legendary. I feel the rewards for the hardest content should be fitting and I also believe that dropped legendaries should make people stronger just for completing said content. Its akin to the older games where raid gear was good in pvp. All it took for some guilds to be super effective was several months of hidden raid content to gain enough raid gear. I see no reason to change the formulate, though, I would invest the gold made from a unique legendary into something that fits my build.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    I doubt this system will exist in any meaningful way upon launch. It is meant for a very small fraction of the player base. Legendary gear will either be part of vertical progression or not. If they make legendary gear too hard to obtain most will be discouraged to even try, if they make it easy enough legendaries will not be as unique as people are being led to believe.
    Legendaries and Legendary Uniques are two different things. Former will be way more abundant.
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    How do they plan to prevent all of the shinies from going to the guild leaders alone? Or is being a guild leader the way to acquire such an item? In any case, for most people, these items will be completely out of reach if they are made truly unique and rare.
    I'd expect no involvement from Intrepid when it comes to drop distribution. That's on guilds to decide.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Zooming it in for you
    8fxu9ukobe2z.png
    I'll scroll for you then
    s9cccjghehq3.png
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Can't quite craft a thing that's supposed to be one-of-a-kind. Which is why those will be Unique, while still being legendary.
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  • Ace1234Ace1234 Member
    edited May 2023
    Just like the dragon balls from DBZ, the dragonballs are collected and dispersed several times, yet it can still like a legendary acheivement (if executed correctly) even if multiple different people collect them and make a wish.

    I feel that considering how rare the item actually is, it wouldn't be a big deal to generate an additional legendary item in a scenario like this.

    It would still feel special if there was an additional legendary item generated after some time, and even moreso if the "duplicate" was more difficult to obtain, and if there is a lore reason behind it.

    Maybe the second person to find the secret location of the original legendary, triggers an event showing that somewhere the second legendary item has now spawned, as a result of their findings, maybe with a hint or something as a reward.
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    Simpler solution: a Legendary item lasts for X durability & Y days.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Niem Lumel wrote: »
    Where did you read that?
    Yeah, ok, that's an assumption based on how things usually go. Crafting usually implies that you can keep getting resources, but there is in fact a small chance that the "unique" part can come from a material that only drops once. You're right. But considering Steven's roots, I'd assume that will not be the case.
  • Ace1234Ace1234 Member
    Or maybe the item (or representation of the item) is forced to be stored in the node reliquary or freehold storage or whatever, so even if they are logged out the item can still be stolen by other players when they siege the node/freehold
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Few people won't use any legendaries they have in a siege...
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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