I wonder, for example, how to deal with a player who camps specifically in your zone, follows you, finishes your monsters and takes your resources?
Good question. You can become PK, but it is dangerous, because you can drop valueable items. The answer for now is the corruption-free seas. But what if the corruption-free zone is too small and easy-to-monopolize? Then that type of players are between griefers and hardcores.
Hope there a few PvP zones then
If you want to PvP, you do not go with valuable items. You go with average items only.
Yep, that's what I do not like. If I've created my build, I want to use it. Or should I use the alt characters with average items on my second PC to safely protect the main one?
You should keep your more valuable items for defending your node, or attacking one. Also for caravan fights.
Or if the most valuable gear comes from resources you harvested yourself, then you can use it there too, as you wish. You got it from there, you can lose it there too and get another one.
The only case which makes no sense is to go in high level dungeons to get valuable resources to make a valuable gear and then go become corrupt with it in average areas killing random players. But bounty hunters need fun too...
Kinda but no. I think group contribution should be a variable included in the overall corruption score that is given out.
To me it makes no sense that person A could do 99% of the damage to someone, and then person B could do 1% of the damage, killing the player and gaining all the corruption. This sounds exploitable.
I want open world pvp, want to attack people, want to be attacked by people and there are very very very very very few times if ever that I won’t just fight back.
If I’m running around buffing my allies or doing 90% of the damage to a green but not getting the killing blow I certainly think I deserve to be subject to the corruption systems.
As I said I hope we see some some more variables built in to how corruption is given out including first to hit, damage dealt, and killing blow. That’s not how it currently is though and I’ll deal with however they decide to do it, but I think it’s stupid.
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Kinda but no. I think group contribution should be a variable included in the overall corruption score that is given out.
To me it makes no sense that person A could do 99% of the damage to someone, and then person B could do 1% of the damage, killing the player and gaining all the corruption. This sounds exploitable.
I want open world pvp, want to attack people, want to be attacked by people and there are very very very very very few times if ever that I won’t just fight back.
If I’m running around buffing my allies or doing 90% of the damage to a green but not getting the killing blow I certainly think I deserve to be subject to the corruption systems.
As I said I hope we see some some more variables built in to how corruption is given out including first to hit, damage dealt, and killing blow. That’s not how it currently is though and I’ll deal with however they decide to do it, but I think it’s stupid.
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
99% was not the point. Many damages contributed to the killing of the player was the point.
For your point though, you will not know an exact value but the name plates will degrade to represent how damaged someone is. What plates look like at various percentages of health will absolutely be known by the time the game goes live.
You are correct tho, 99% would be super risky to go for, but 80% will probably be safe to assume within a margin of error.
Kinda but no. I think group contribution should be a variable included in the overall corruption score that is given out.
To me it makes no sense that person A could do 99% of the damage to someone, and then person B could do 1% of the damage, killing the player and gaining all the corruption. This sounds exploitable.
I want open world pvp, want to attack people, want to be attacked by people and there are very very very very very few times if ever that I won’t just fight back.
If I’m running around buffing my allies or doing 90% of the damage to a green but not getting the killing blow I certainly think I deserve to be subject to the corruption systems.
As I said I hope we see some some more variables built in to how corruption is given out including first to hit, damage dealt, and killing blow. That’s not how it currently is though and I’ll deal with however they decide to do it, but I think it’s stupid.
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
99% was not the point. Many damages contributed to the killing of the player was the point.
For your point though, you will not know an exact value but the name plates will degrade to represent how damaged someone is. What plates look like at various percentages of health will absolutely be known by the time the game goes live.
You are correct tho, 99% would be super risky to go for, but 80% will probably be safe to assume within a margin of error.
i get what you mean. lets say i hit you once with the weakest possible attack i have, lets say i do 1 damage to you, i realize you dont want to pvp, then i leave. you heal back to full health then 30 seconds later you die to a mob due to your own incompetence. why do i deserve to be punished and corrupted?
that could also be exploitable. people would be karma bombing others 24/7. have you guys ever thought about that?
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Kinda but no. I think group contribution should be a variable included in the overall corruption score that is given out.
To me it makes no sense that person A could do 99% of the damage to someone, and then person B could do 1% of the damage, killing the player and gaining all the corruption. This sounds exploitable.
I want open world pvp, want to attack people, want to be attacked by people and there are very very very very very few times if ever that I won’t just fight back.
If I’m running around buffing my allies or doing 90% of the damage to a green but not getting the killing blow I certainly think I deserve to be subject to the corruption systems.
As I said I hope we see some some more variables built in to how corruption is given out including first to hit, damage dealt, and killing blow. That’s not how it currently is though and I’ll deal with however they decide to do it, but I think it’s stupid.
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
99% was not the point. Many damages contributed to the killing of the player was the point.
For your point though, you will not know an exact value but the name plates will degrade to represent how damaged someone is. What plates look like at various percentages of health will absolutely be known by the time the game goes live.
You are correct tho, 99% would be super risky to go for, but 80% will probably be safe to assume within a margin of error.
i get what you mean. lets say i hit you once with the weakest possible attack i have, lets say i do 1 damage to you, i realize you dont want to pvp, then i leave. you heal back to full health then 30 seconds later you die to a mob due to your own incompetence. why do i deserve to be punished and corrupted?
that could also be exploitable. people would be karma bombing others 24/7. have you guys ever thought about that?
Oh I see I see. Yeah the mob part can be super exploitable. People just Leroy Jenkinsing into a pack every time they get tagged.
Two points of view on this. There’s one where I could be totally down with it not occurring on mobs. I still think it should apply to all player characters who contributed. You could say something like “but what if I tag someone to see if they want to fight, and then another player comes up out of no where and try’s to kill them”. Well now you have your PvP, and if you don’t want to go corrupted you’ll want to make sure that player you tagged doesn’t die.
The other point of view I have is if you really just did 1 point of damage and they suicide into some mobs, you contributed so little that you could potentially work off that corruption by just killing those same mobs they killed themselves on.
That’s the whole positive side of having more variables effecting corruption gain.
I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much
Kinda but no. I think group contribution should be a variable included in the overall corruption score that is given out.
To me it makes no sense that person A could do 99% of the damage to someone, and then person B could do 1% of the damage, killing the player and gaining all the corruption. This sounds exploitable.
I want open world pvp, want to attack people, want to be attacked by people and there are very very very very very few times if ever that I won’t just fight back.
If I’m running around buffing my allies or doing 90% of the damage to a green but not getting the killing blow I certainly think I deserve to be subject to the corruption systems.
As I said I hope we see some some more variables built in to how corruption is given out including first to hit, damage dealt, and killing blow. That’s not how it currently is though and I’ll deal with however they decide to do it, but I think it’s stupid.
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
99% was not the point. Many damages contributed to the killing of the player was the point.
For your point though, you will not know an exact value but the name plates will degrade to represent how damaged someone is. What plates look like at various percentages of health will absolutely be known by the time the game goes live.
You are correct tho, 99% would be super risky to go for, but 80% will probably be safe to assume within a margin of error.
i get what you mean. lets say i hit you once with the weakest possible attack i have, lets say i do 1 damage to you, i realize you dont want to pvp, then i leave. you heal back to full health then 30 seconds later you die to a mob due to your own incompetence. why do i deserve to be punished and corrupted?
that could also be exploitable. people would be karma bombing others 24/7. have you guys ever thought about that?
Oh I see I see. Yeah the mob part can be super exploitable. People just Leroy Jenkinsing into a pack every time they get tagged.
Two points of view on this. There’s one where I could be totally down with it not occurring on mobs. I still think it should apply to all player characters who contributed. You could say something like “but what if I tag someone to see if they want to fight, and then another player comes up out of no where and try’s to kill them”. Well now you have your PvP, and if you don’t want to go corrupted you’ll want to make sure that player you tagged doesn’t die.
The other point of view I have is if you really just did 1 point of damage and they suicide into some mobs, you contributed so little that you could potentially work off that corruption by just killing those same mobs they killed themselves on.
That’s the whole positive side of having more variables effecting corruption gain.
I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much
point 1:
also exploitable. people will get hit then leave consensual pvp areas (caravans, wars, etc) then die to something giving the players fighting in the pvp area corruption.
exploit number 2: you tag me, i dont fight back, i leave and hide behind a tree, then i kill myself with my alt who has no gear, or i make my friend kill me after he gives me his gear and now you become red and i kill you and take your shit.
point number 2: what if you cant kill those mobs? i bring 10 agro mobs to you, you hit me once, i die to mobs and guess what? you are next. even if you could kill them and it only took you 5 seconds, people nearby could all attack and instagib you.
exploit: it would be much easier for groups to kill solo players with 0 risks, or even lowbies. my party hides behind a rock, i go and try to mob drop you. if you dont hit me, we both die to mobs and drop some shit, then my party res me and picks up the loot. if oyu hit me thinking im alone, ill die to mobs, give you corruption and my party will kill you and you will drop your shit, then res me.
its simply not fair. now i think you also want ow pvp to be non existant because you dont like it or its inconvenient to you.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
point 1:
also exploitable. people will get hit then leave consensual pvp areas (caravans, wars, etc) then die to something giving the players fighting in the pvp area corruption.
I just said “ I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much”. PvP areas flag you as a combatant. Once you enter a combatant state you stay that way for about 90 seconds. 90 seconds is much more than a few.
exploit number 2:
you tag me, i dont fight back, i leave and hide behind a tree, then i kill myself with my alt who has no gear, or i make my friend kill me after he gives me his gear and now you become red and i kill you and take your shit.
I just said “ I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much”. If your no gear friend can kill you in a few seconds then I think the TTK would probably need some tweaking. That also means your friend turned in to a combatant so I get to kill them now. Cool.
point number 2:
what if you cant kill those mobs? i bring 10 agro mobs to you, you hit me once, i die to mobs and guess what? you are next. even if you could kill them and it only took you 5 seconds, people nearby could all attack and instagib you.
Why would I hit you at all while you’re training 10 mobs at me? In that silly scenario if it took me 5 seconds to clear the mobs and work off the corruption because I only dealt one damage to you then what’s the problem? I’m not corrupted anymore? And cool now I get more PvP.
exploit:
it would be much easier for groups to kill solo players with 0 risks, or even lowbies. my party hides behind a rock, i go and try to mob drop you. if you dont hit me, we both die to mobs and drop some shit, then my party res me and picks up the loot. if oyu hit me thinking im alone, ill die to mobs, give you corruption and my party will kill you and you will drop your shit, then res me.
This is similar to the one above, but my first instinct if someone was trying to mob drop me wouldn’t be to force attack the high TTK player character. It would be either to deal with the mobs by killing them or trying to CC them and move out of their leash range. If the PC continues to repeatedly mob drop me this would fall under Intrepid’s definition of griefing. I really don’t like to use this phrase but if someone did attack in that scenario it sounds like a skill issue, and hopefully they would learn a hard lesson.
its simply not fair. now i think you also want ow pvp to be non existant because you dont like it or its inconvenient to you.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. The main reason I initially got excited about ashes is because of owpvp and I hope it is plentiful.
You’re talking about potential exploits that require multiple steps and needing those steps to go very correctly.
Corruption only applying to the person that kills only requires one person to be able to deal roughly 20% of someone’s health and that same person not caring if they get corrupted. That would enable infinite amounts of other players to attack greens without repercussions.
The other point of view I have is if you really just did 1 point of damage and they suicide into some mobs, you contributed so little that you could potentially work off that corruption by just killing those same mobs they killed themselves on.
I feel like you're forgetting about PK count which will increase with each kill (that is corruption acquisition). So if the system works as you suggest and people like to do this "one hit and then the victim dies to other people" all the time - your PK count will shoot through the roof and your character will start gaining insane amounts of corruption even for single points of damage against a victim.
Can a player hit another by accident, trying to hit an NPC?
If yes, the player who dies is probably aware of the situation and should have the option to allow or cancel the corruption on that player.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The other point of view I have is if you really just did 1 point of damage and they suicide into some mobs, you contributed so little that you could potentially work off that corruption by just killing those same mobs they killed themselves on.
I feel like you're forgetting about PK count which will increase with each kill (that is corruption acquisition). So if the system works as you suggest and people like to do this "one hit and then the victim dies to other people" all the time - your PK count will shoot through the roof and your character will start gaining insane amounts of corruption even for single points of damage against a victim.
And soon enough there'll be no owpvp.
I absolutely did forget about that. To twist my own a bit words to conform with this additional factor, I am purely talking about player corruption. I could see a system where PKs are still tied to the player who gets the killing blow, but the effects of corruption can be variably spread to those that contributed to the kill like I stated.
In the case where a mob gets the killing blow no one would get that PK count because no one got the killing blow.
I think you mashed together two of my statements a bit but I think I got the general reference still.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Can a player hit another by accident, trying to hit an NPC?
If yes, the player who dies is probably aware of the situation and should have the option to allow or cancel the corruption on that player.
You have to “force attack” in order for any of your spells to hit a non combatant.
Here’s more information about the flagging system:
I absolutely did forget about that. To twist my own a bit words to conform with this additional factor, I am purely talking about player corruption. I could see a system where PKs are still tied to the player who gets the killing blow, but the effects of corruption can be variably spread to those that contributed to the kill like I stated.
In the case where a mob gets the killing blow no one would get that PK count because no one got the killing blow.
But then this doesn't work with the currently planned system at all. The whole system would need a bigger restructuring than just "make people get corruption if the touched a dead victim".
Currently PK count prevents people from just going on killing sprees (even if they're spread over a long time). But if the PK count can only be attributed to a single char or even no one in case of mobs - that's gonna be the main abuse of the system.
You do the exact same thing that was described here before. And the result is the same. People will clear corruption real quick and there's gonna be nothing on their record about them killing people.
I'd probably go with just another betterment of the BH system. If a group of people attacked and killed a person, the PKer immediately sends a ping to any BHs within a big radius, while his accomplices get a 5 minute flagged timer instead of the normal 90s (maybe even longer than 5m). And the BH ping includes info about it being a group gank.
So now BHs can go fight to their hearts' content. And they can call anyone pvp-likers they know too. This was a common practice in L2, just w/o the system-based reward for "BHs".
Can a player hit another by accident, trying to hit an NPC?
If yes, the player who dies is probably aware of the situation and should have the option to allow or cancel the corruption on that player.
You have to “force attack” in order for any of your spells to hit a non combatant.
Here’s more information about the flagging system:
OK. I see it is clearly written there that players will gank but only gank box is to be avoided.
Therefore ganking is part of the game design and should not be seen as a thing to be punished heavily.
In a normal evening, a small group might roam a few hours until it encounters 1-2 players to gank.
But this to happen, resources should be valuable enough for solo players, in order to run as soon as they see a group.
In areas where you just level up, ganking will not happen unless is a spot where players can also have resources. For example you fight near the entrance to a dungeon and the attacker assumes you was deeper inside.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
So now BHs can go fight to their hearts' content. And they can call anyone pvp-likers they know too. This was a common practice in L2, just w/o the system-based reward for "BHs".
Tbh no one gave a sh*t about pks in L2 beside your allies or clanmates or if they had gear you´d want. And no one with gear from A grade on would even go red if nothing rlly serious occurs. If you´d drop your wep with your main or smthn like that its prtty much ggs. Dnno what it became in the later chronicles but im talking about the game when it wasnt f2p and still prtty hardcore like C1 - Awakening. But if Corruption is somewhat comparable to being a PK in L2 which it seems to be, there will be no work for BHs cuz no one would dare to go red/becoming corrupted which renders BHs pointless. Ofc dont know how hard weapons or gear in general is to get. If you can afford to loose gear without going broke then it could be different.
But if you cant, ganking will be on trash alts and it will be non relevant i guess. Not talking about hatred between players that just wanna kill each other (which im looking forward to )
Tbh no one gave a sh*t about pks in L2 beside your allies or clanmates or if they had gear you´d want. And no one with gear from A grade on would even go red if nothing rlly serious occurs. If you´d drop your wep with your main or smthn like that its prtty much ggs. Dnno what it became in the later chronicles but im talking about the game when it wasnt f2p and still prtty hardcore like C1 - Awakening. But if Corruption is somewhat comparable to being a PK in L2 which it seems to be, there will be no work for BHs cuz no one would dare to go red/becoming corrupted which renders BHs pointless. Ofc dont know how hard weapons or gear in general is to get. If you can afford to loose gear without going broke then it could be different.
But if you cant, ganking will be on trash alts and it will be non relevant i guess. Not talking about hatred between players that just wanna kill each other (which im looking forward to )
This is exactly why I'll be giving feedback to support the BH profession to a much greater extent.
Tbh no one gave a sh*t about pks in L2 beside your allies or clanmates or if they had gear you´d want. And no one with gear from A grade on would even go red if nothing rlly serious occurs. If you´d drop your wep with your main or smthn like that its prtty much ggs. Dnno what it became in the later chronicles but im talking about the game when it wasnt f2p and still prtty hardcore like C1 - Awakening. But if Corruption is somewhat comparable to being a PK in L2 which it seems to be, there will be no work for BHs cuz no one would dare to go red/becoming corrupted which renders BHs pointless. Ofc dont know how hard weapons or gear in general is to get. If you can afford to loose gear without going broke then it could be different.
But if you cant, ganking will be on trash alts and it will be non relevant i guess. Not talking about hatred between players that just wanna kill each other (which im looking forward to )
This is exactly why I'll be giving feedback to support the BH profession to a much greater extent.
Yeah i like the idea of BHing too but its very hard to balance the penalties of corruption to a point where ppl actually consider doing it. If you nerf corruption to a joke your making flagging obsolete and it turns into a FFA. Theres no reason for ppl to go corrupt as it seems. They could add some candy to corruption like some kind of a special mob/quest you can only damage/do while corrupt. Make it a hardcore one. With little chances to accomplish but with potentially big reward. Like you cant die while doing the quest otherwise it resets. It would make a great hunt for the BHs and give a do or die thrill to the corrupted. Just a idea.
there will always be a way to attack greens with "no repercussions" but if killing one person gives corruption to multiple people, that will be too much for the reasons ive already explained.
also btw, you can take your gear off so that your friend / party can kill you fast T__T then they gang up on the corrupted person...
there will always be a way to attack greens with "no repercussions" but if killing one person gives corruption to multiple people, that will be too much for the reasons ive already explained.
I have to agree.
If corruption were something that you still gained if the player fought back (such as crime points in Archeage), then it makes sense that anyone taking part in the fight gains corruption. Such a system would make support classes basically immune to gaining corruption.
However, since you only gain corruption if the person doesn't fight back, it does make any sense at all for more than one player to gain corruption.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
I agree.
I think the PvX people will say that PvX means that PvP and PvE are tightly integrated with each other.
But... that really ends up having little meaning to me.
I typically leave PvP-Optional servers to play on PvE-Only servers, so if I weight the server types:
PvE-Only server = 0
PvP-Optional server = 1
PvP server = 2
I would probably need the server to feel like it's 0.75 or 0.5 for me to feel comfortable.
I'd say that Ashes seems like a 1.75 to me - at least.
But... the more I learn about Steven's vision of Risk v Reward... PvX feels like it has a PvP rating of 3 to me.
PvP is tied into everything.
So... if I try to add in my current response to PvX, I would rate Ashes as a 2.25 PvP server.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
Depends,
more ganking to prevent or promote environment management? PVX
More ganking to interfere with or promote node progression/events? PVX
More ganking to promote bounty hunting? PVP that directly counters the PvP everyone is concerned about
There should be limits to ganking, not prevention altogether.
So being in a very large guild seems to be better. They will provide safe PvE zones. When I have a PvP mood day I can help them maintain the safety. When I have a PvE mood, I can do my PvE activities.
When I want more danger, I go in areas outside of the guild control.
But doing PvE looking all the time arround if anyone approaches is not what I call PvX.
Or better said, that kind of activity makes the game itself a PvP game. The player activity may be more PvE if nobody comes close. But the PvP possibility will always be present on the emotional state if I have something I care about.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
Depends,
more ganking to prevent or promote environment management? PVX
More ganking to interfere with or promote node progression/events? PVX
More ganking to promote bounty hunting? PVP that directly counters the PvP everyone is concerned about
There should be limits to ganking, not prevention altogether.
The player activity may be more PvE if nobody comes close. But the PvP possibility will always be present on the emotional state if I have something I care about.
How isn't this PvX? Without the 2nd element you just have PvE. Without the 1st element you just have PvP. Both seems like a PvX scenario if they are equally implemented and compliment each other.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
Depends,
more ganking to prevent or promote environment management? PVX
More ganking to interfere with or promote node progression/events? PVX
More ganking to promote bounty hunting? PVP that directly counters the PvP everyone is concerned about
There should be limits to ganking, not prevention altogether.
The player activity may be more PvE if nobody comes close. But the PvP possibility will always be present on the emotional state if I have something I care about.
How isn't this PvX? Without the 2nd element you just have PvE. Without the 1st element you just have PvP. Both seems like a PvX scenario if they are equally implemented and compliment each other.
You removed the part where I said the game is PvP.
Try to explain your view about the difference between a PvP mmorpg game and a PvX game.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
Depends,
more ganking to prevent or promote environment management? PVX
More ganking to interfere with or promote node progression/events? PVX
More ganking to promote bounty hunting? PVP that directly counters the PvP everyone is concerned about
There should be limits to ganking, not prevention altogether.
The player activity may be more PvE if nobody comes close. But the PvP possibility will always be present on the emotional state if I have something I care about.
How isn't this PvX? Without the 2nd element you just have PvE. Without the 1st element you just have PvP. Both seems like a PvX scenario if they are equally implemented and compliment each other.
You removed the part where I said the game is PvP.
Try to explain your view about the difference between a PvP mmorpg game and a PvX game.
Honestly I dont think I have played a purely PvP MMORPG, nor can I think of one after thinking about it the other day. Just MMORPGS with varying balances of PvE and PvP. Some leaned one way more than another. Id say maybe a MMORPG that has instanced PvP separate from the rest of the game could be part PvP. The Warmane private WoW server would be the closest example where you have the option to instantly create a geared maxed out character to solely PvP with, but that takes out the MMORPG aspect of creating and leveling a character in a world. Not ideal to me.
An MMORPG can't be without PvE, so once you add PvP to that same content, I would say you are playing PvX. Though many games dont incorporate them together well.
Therefore AoC is a PvP game.
We should not say it is PvX.
PvE players have no reason to get excited and Steven should not even try to attract them. They will say what a good game could have been but is not.
I will for sure be a bountyhunter and hunt corrupted players. But also im gonna rob caravans of my enemy guild and protect caravans of my guild/alliance. And in the case any guild pks ppl from my guild im gonna pk their ppl aswell. But im probably not gonna attack unflagged players otherwise because its a bad look for the guild and doesnt rly get me anything.
Intrepid just needs to make it almost impossible to mob drop. That's it. Quite a lot of abuses of the current system come from there.
That implies a very generic and stupid AI. If you have a pack of aggressive low intelligence mobs on you, it shouldn't matter to them if the other guy is being griefed or not, they should attack anyone on sight. It's not a rule of course, it should depend on the type of mob.
That implies a very generic and stupid AI. If you have a pack of aggressive low intelligence mobs on you, it shouldn't matter to them if the other guy is being griefed or not, they should attack anyone on sight. It's not a rule of course, it should depend on the type of mob.
Make all dangerous mobs smart and all dumb mobs easy and soloable.
Comments
You should keep your more valuable items for defending your node, or attacking one. Also for caravan fights.
Or if the most valuable gear comes from resources you harvested yourself, then you can use it there too, as you wish. You got it from there, you can lose it there too and get another one.
The only case which makes no sense is to go in high level dungeons to get valuable resources to make a valuable gear and then go become corrupt with it in average areas killing random players. But bounty hunters need fun too...
how can you do 99% of the damage when you cant even see the enemy hp..you might kill your target accidentally
99% was not the point. Many damages contributed to the killing of the player was the point.
For your point though, you will not know an exact value but the name plates will degrade to represent how damaged someone is. What plates look like at various percentages of health will absolutely be known by the time the game goes live.
You are correct tho, 99% would be super risky to go for, but 80% will probably be safe to assume within a margin of error.
i get what you mean. lets say i hit you once with the weakest possible attack i have, lets say i do 1 damage to you, i realize you dont want to pvp, then i leave. you heal back to full health then 30 seconds later you die to a mob due to your own incompetence. why do i deserve to be punished and corrupted?
that could also be exploitable. people would be karma bombing others 24/7. have you guys ever thought about that?
Oh I see I see. Yeah the mob part can be super exploitable. People just Leroy Jenkinsing into a pack every time they get tagged.
Two points of view on this. There’s one where I could be totally down with it not occurring on mobs. I still think it should apply to all player characters who contributed. You could say something like “but what if I tag someone to see if they want to fight, and then another player comes up out of no where and try’s to kill them”. Well now you have your PvP, and if you don’t want to go corrupted you’ll want to make sure that player you tagged doesn’t die.
The other point of view I have is if you really just did 1 point of damage and they suicide into some mobs, you contributed so little that you could potentially work off that corruption by just killing those same mobs they killed themselves on.
That’s the whole positive side of having more variables effecting corruption gain.
I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much
point 1:
also exploitable. people will get hit then leave consensual pvp areas (caravans, wars, etc) then die to something giving the players fighting in the pvp area corruption.
exploit number 2: you tag me, i dont fight back, i leave and hide behind a tree, then i kill myself with my alt who has no gear, or i make my friend kill me after he gives me his gear and now you become red and i kill you and take your shit.
point number 2: what if you cant kill those mobs? i bring 10 agro mobs to you, you hit me once, i die to mobs and guess what? you are next. even if you could kill them and it only took you 5 seconds, people nearby could all attack and instagib you.
exploit: it would be much easier for groups to kill solo players with 0 risks, or even lowbies. my party hides behind a rock, i go and try to mob drop you. if you dont hit me, we both die to mobs and drop some shit, then my party res me and picks up the loot. if oyu hit me thinking im alone, ill die to mobs, give you corruption and my party will kill you and you will drop your shit, then res me.
its simply not fair. now i think you also want ow pvp to be non existant because you dont like it or its inconvenient to you.
I just said “ I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much”. PvP areas flag you as a combatant. Once you enter a combatant state you stay that way for about 90 seconds. 90 seconds is much more than a few.
exploit number 2:
I just said “ I didn’t mention any times but yeah I agree more than a few seconds would be a bit much”. If your no gear friend can kill you in a few seconds then I think the TTK would probably need some tweaking. That also means your friend turned in to a combatant so I get to kill them now. Cool.
point number 2:
Why would I hit you at all while you’re training 10 mobs at me? In that silly scenario if it took me 5 seconds to clear the mobs and work off the corruption because I only dealt one damage to you then what’s the problem? I’m not corrupted anymore? And cool now I get more PvP.
exploit:
This is similar to the one above, but my first instinct if someone was trying to mob drop me wouldn’t be to force attack the high TTK player character. It would be either to deal with the mobs by killing them or trying to CC them and move out of their leash range. If the PC continues to repeatedly mob drop me this would fall under Intrepid’s definition of griefing. I really don’t like to use this phrase but if someone did attack in that scenario it sounds like a skill issue, and hopefully they would learn a hard lesson.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. The main reason I initially got excited about ashes is because of owpvp and I hope it is plentiful.
You’re talking about potential exploits that require multiple steps and needing those steps to go very correctly.
Corruption only applying to the person that kills only requires one person to be able to deal roughly 20% of someone’s health and that same person not caring if they get corrupted. That would enable infinite amounts of other players to attack greens without repercussions.
I feel like you're forgetting about PK count which will increase with each kill (that is corruption acquisition). So if the system works as you suggest and people like to do this "one hit and then the victim dies to other people" all the time - your PK count will shoot through the roof and your character will start gaining insane amounts of corruption even for single points of damage against a victim.
And soon enough there'll be no owpvp.
If yes, the player who dies is probably aware of the situation and should have the option to allow or cancel the corruption on that player.
I absolutely did forget about that. To twist my own a bit words to conform with this additional factor, I am purely talking about player corruption. I could see a system where PKs are still tied to the player who gets the killing blow, but the effects of corruption can be variably spread to those that contributed to the kill like I stated.
In the case where a mob gets the killing blow no one would get that PK count because no one got the killing blow.
I think you mashed together two of my statements a bit but I think I got the general reference still.
You have to “force attack” in order for any of your spells to hit a non combatant.
Here’s more information about the flagging system:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#:~:text=Non-combatants entering an open,will be flagged as combatants.
Currently PK count prevents people from just going on killing sprees (even if they're spread over a long time). But if the PK count can only be attributed to a single char or even no one in case of mobs - that's gonna be the main abuse of the system.
You do the exact same thing that was described here before. And the result is the same. People will clear corruption real quick and there's gonna be nothing on their record about them killing people.
I'd probably go with just another betterment of the BH system. If a group of people attacked and killed a person, the PKer immediately sends a ping to any BHs within a big radius, while his accomplices get a 5 minute flagged timer instead of the normal 90s (maybe even longer than 5m). And the BH ping includes info about it being a group gank.
So now BHs can go fight to their hearts' content. And they can call anyone pvp-likers they know too. This was a common practice in L2, just w/o the system-based reward for "BHs".
OK. I see it is clearly written there that players will gank but only gank box is to be avoided.
Therefore ganking is part of the game design and should not be seen as a thing to be punished heavily.
In a normal evening, a small group might roam a few hours until it encounters 1-2 players to gank.
But this to happen, resources should be valuable enough for solo players, in order to run as soon as they see a group.
In areas where you just level up, ganking will not happen unless is a spot where players can also have resources. For example you fight near the entrance to a dungeon and the attacker assumes you was deeper inside.
So, ganking being accepted makes the game more a PvP game than a PvX game.
also btw, you can take your gear off so that your friend / party can kill you fast T__T then they gang up on the corrupted person...
If corruption were something that you still gained if the player fought back (such as crime points in Archeage), then it makes sense that anyone taking part in the fight gains corruption. Such a system would make support classes basically immune to gaining corruption.
However, since you only gain corruption if the person doesn't fight back, it does make any sense at all for more than one player to gain corruption.
I think the PvX people will say that PvX means that PvP and PvE are tightly integrated with each other.
But... that really ends up having little meaning to me.
I typically leave PvP-Optional servers to play on PvE-Only servers, so if I weight the server types:
PvE-Only server = 0
PvP-Optional server = 1
PvP server = 2
I would probably need the server to feel like it's 0.75 or 0.5 for me to feel comfortable.
I'd say that Ashes seems like a 1.75 to me - at least.
But... the more I learn about Steven's vision of Risk v Reward... PvX feels like it has a PvP rating of 3 to me.
PvP is tied into everything.
So... if I try to add in my current response to PvX, I would rate Ashes as a 2.25 PvP server.
Depends,
more ganking to prevent or promote environment management? PVX
More ganking to interfere with or promote node progression/events? PVX
More ganking to promote bounty hunting? PVP that directly counters the PvP everyone is concerned about
There should be limits to ganking, not prevention altogether.
So being in a very large guild seems to be better. They will provide safe PvE zones. When I have a PvP mood day I can help them maintain the safety. When I have a PvE mood, I can do my PvE activities.
When I want more danger, I go in areas outside of the guild control.
But doing PvE looking all the time arround if anyone approaches is not what I call PvX.
Or better said, that kind of activity makes the game itself a PvP game. The player activity may be more PvE if nobody comes close. But the PvP possibility will always be present on the emotional state if I have something I care about.
How isn't this PvX? Without the 2nd element you just have PvE. Without the 1st element you just have PvP. Both seems like a PvX scenario if they are equally implemented and compliment each other.
You removed the part where I said the game is PvP.
Try to explain your view about the difference between a PvP mmorpg game and a PvX game.
Honestly I dont think I have played a purely PvP MMORPG, nor can I think of one after thinking about it the other day. Just MMORPGS with varying balances of PvE and PvP. Some leaned one way more than another. Id say maybe a MMORPG that has instanced PvP separate from the rest of the game could be part PvP. The Warmane private WoW server would be the closest example where you have the option to instantly create a geared maxed out character to solely PvP with, but that takes out the MMORPG aspect of creating and leveling a character in a world. Not ideal to me.
An MMORPG can't be without PvE, so once you add PvP to that same content, I would say you are playing PvX. Though many games dont incorporate them together well.
We should not say it is PvX.
PvE players have no reason to get excited and Steven should not even try to attract them. They will say what a good game could have been but is not.
It's pvx. lol