Corruption/pvp

How many of you will still be engaging in in world pvp/ ganking reguardless of corruption?

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Depraved wrote: »

my point is, you can kill people through mobs and you don't get a corruption penalty or any type of penalty

Again, has there been any indication that this will be possible? Yes, I know that it might be logical to assume that we'll have some sort of ability that somehow transfers aggro from us onto an unsuspecting passerby, but Intrepid could just avoid having that ability and this whole premise would crumble. And if you're talking about dudes aggroing mobs, dying to those mobs near another person and then those mobs aggroing onto that other person - even that could be avoided through design of the mob aggro mechanics.

Depraved wrote: »

1-3 safe pk count lets me deal with it myself. idk why r u complaining about it, thts how l2 worked. you think it didn't solve anything because you played in prvt servers, but when you are a solo player in retail and it takes you one 1-2 weeks to hit level 40 (back in the day) you will think twice before fucking with someone who will just kill you and drop you 5% ++ of exp (a good 30 mins+ of farm) and lose karma before you come back. then the killer can just take out sin eater and be ready again.

it takes less time to level up in ashes than in l2 but it also takes more time to go from place to place. so you probably wont want to spend 10 - 15 mins walking back to get killed again by the same guy if you start any type of fuckery

It took a few minutes to get down to the deepest parts of a dungeon in L2 even with TPs. Unless we respawn literally in the node center in Ashes, it'll take roughly the same amount of time to come back to your original point of death. Which gives the pve "griefer" a way to "grief" you way beyond your first 3 pks. And yet again, if it's a griefer - his whole damn gameplay consists of annoying you. A few minutes of downtime between his gameplay would be nothing for him.

And I'm not complaining about this. I'm just saying that it's just the way Steven wants it. I just consider anyone who has to stoop down to PKing against "griefing" a weak person. Hell, if you get mob griefed by someone - just come back and do the same to them. Win against them at their own game.

And if your last and only choice is to PK - prepare yourself accordingly and just do it. Go change your gear into something more appropriate and go kill that fucker several times. Get your revenge.

Also, I feel like we're forgetting a thing here. Your items would only drop if you die while red. If this is your first 3 pks, I expect you to get so little corruption that it takes you just a few minutes to clear it. Which is just another reason for me to consider this whole discussion silly. I'd rather prefer to discuss the best way to balance the system where those first few PKs don't impact you as much (outside of the damn item drop). But even that discussion would be too early at this point, because there's still a ton of untested and unknown design present.

Depraved

ppl have summons T_T also in some versions you have the revenge thingie.
ac will have the bounty hunter system, or they might be people passing by and ur screwed

I'm ok with dropping mats if I have 1-3 pk, but not gear..and Iirc steven said u can pk a couple of times before dropping stuff

Songcaller

We need a quote...anyone can say Steven said something. When I do it I assume people check the wiki. I've checked the wiki and there's no reference for your suggestion.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

and Iirc steven said u can pk a couple of times before dropping stuff

You still haven't posted a quote for that

Depraved

I'm not gonna watch 100 hours of streams to get that one quote. hopefully, @Vaknar sees this and asks @StevenSharif for clarification.

i could always be wrong. memory is tricky

Noaani

The original mechanic said that you wouldnt drop gear after one kill, that you needed more corruption than that.

However, it has since been stated by Steven that they now have it set at any corruption triggering a chance to drop gear.

Having a chance to drop gear on death at any level of corruption is the most recent info we have on this, and so is what we should assume.

Solvryn

Depraved wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

having 1-3 pk count protection seems fair. or how do you guys propose we deal with pve griefer? so far pve griefers arent getting punished in any way, only pvp griefers.

First off, just to make my position clear, I do not see any mob manipulation as harassment or griefing. To me that's simply what the game allows you to do and everyone in the game gotta deal with it. This also includes the main counter to those actions - be in a fucking party. It's gonna be a party game, so be in a party. "Dropping mobs" doesn't work, because the mobs that would kill a party in that situation would've killed the initial puller way before he brings the mob to his target.

But even if I did try and see this as abuse, like I said, we don't know how the game will work in this context. Will the mobs be able to just be dumped on people? Will the mobs easily reset? Will the bosses not just kill the one who pulls them? Will we have different abilities or consumables that help us deal with any of the above? We got 0 clue about any of that. So right now, no the pvp/pk solution doesn't seem like the only one to me.

As for the 1-3pk rule. It will literally not solve anything. If there's someone who's going so far with their actions that you feel you gotta kill them - you killing them won't stop them. So your PKs will go up way past 3. And this is exactly why I hope that we get other tools to address non-pvp "griefing".

well, following someone and killing them over and over isn't considered griefing, however, its considered griefing by intrepid. so it doesn'tmatter what you or me consider griefing, it matters what intrepid considers griefing.

I think griefing is a part of human behavior.

And many people would consider that person behaving like a dickhead.

The honor PK way to solve that problem is Nth Degree the player doing it.

Alastor_Blackwood

Maybe this has already been asked, but my question is about PVP in defense of others.

An example of this in other games that I have played, if I’m out in the world and someone gets agro by mob people will help the player kill the mob, especially a higher level mob.

This question is based off of the other player and myself not being in a guild or party together. If I am out in the world and notice a player initiating an attack against another player. Will I be punished, corruption, for helping to defend that player from the initial aggressor?

I’m not talking about defending a red player from an attacker that has a bounty on their head, but a green one. If I get corruption, why? Defending others from attackers is an honorable act not a corruptible act.

HumblePuffin

Alastor_Blackwood wrote: »

snip

If a player is a combatant which would be required to attack the low player, and you attack that combatant you will also become a combatant. There is no corruption given when combatant fights combatant so no you would not.

If that initial attacking player was corrupted you would not be required to flag as a combatant to kill them, and you also would not gain corruption.

Alastor_Blackwood

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Alastor_Blackwood wrote: »

snip

If a player is a combatant which would be required to attack the low player, and you attack that combatant you will also become a combatant. There is no corruption given when combatant fights combatant so no you would not.

If that initial attacking player was corrupted you would not be required to flag as a combatant to kill them, and you also would not gain corruption.

That is really good to hear, thank you. It would really suck to help someone out just to get penalized for it.

Depraved

Alastor_Blackwood wrote: »

Maybe this has already been asked, but my question is about PVP in defense of others.

An example of this in other games that I have played, if I’m out in the world and someone gets agro by mob people will help the player kill the mob, especially a higher level mob.

This question is based off of the other player and myself not being in a guild or party together. If I am out in the world and notice a player initiating an attack against another player. Will I be punished, corruption, for helping to defend that player from the initial aggressor?

I’m not talking about defending a red player from an attacker that has a bounty on their head, but a green one. If I get corruption, why? Defending others from attackers is an honorable act not a corruptible act.

its not an honorable act. what if the player who initiated the attack did so because he knew the other player would attack him, as he killed him 3 times already for no reason? by you helping the player getting attacked, you are bullying

you dont know what happened before they started fighting..its possible that the player attacking first isnt in the wrong. perhaps they were fighting, ran way got unflagged, healed and came back for more.

or maybe they are just friends and they are testing some skills, or hitting each other to fool around. now you killed an innocent guy =x

ZippyA

If there is a profit in ganking - yes of course!
If no profit i.e. no risk no reward PvP - I would rather stay put off such a farming simulator game.

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent to engaging in PvP.

@Noaani
Can you please explain the specific corruption penalties that you feel are not a deterrent? Also, what are your suggestions to make corruption more of a deterrent?

Also, do you plan on continuing to just make things up or will you commit to actual data (or quotes or video or statements from credible sources) to form your arguments?

p.s. i plan on making you KOS in game, regardless of the corruption penalties.

HumblePuffin

@Abarat while not always true it seems many use “corruption isn’t a good enough deterrent” when they really mean “anyone who can attack me without my permission is a problem”

As someone who is not a serial killer but does enjoy owpvp quite a lot I think it is quite a deterrent already without knowing the exact gear/mat drop chances when corrupted or exact penalties, or how long it would take to work off corruption. That vague dial is already turned pretty far to make me think “I’m only doing this in some super rare occasions”.

Dolyem

Depends entirely on how harsh corruption is. Though I plan to do as much open world pvp as I can without getting absolutely obliterated by corruption penalties.

Dolyem

Also in regards to everyone's arguments about corruption. I believe corruption penalties should scale as it is continued in terms of severeness.

Do I think someone should lose gear after 2 or 3 corruption kills of equal level? No

Do I think continued killing should cause corrupted to drop gear on death? Sure

Do I think killing 1 or 2 significantly lower evel players should cause a corrupted to drop gear on death? Yes

Do I think killing 1 or 2 significantly lower level players with high gathering skills should cause a corrupted player to drop gear on death? No

To me, it's all variables that should be considered in the system.as opposed to 1 set form of corruption.

But no matter what, carebears will want more punishments, griefers will want less punishments. But I believe there should be a middle ground that keeps the focus on PvX. Not too much punishment as to deter PvP, but not too much leniency to promote griefing.

Also there's no such thing as non-consensual PvP in a game where it is built into its system. Consent to the systems is given upon logging into the world.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent to engaging in PvP.

Noaani
Can you please explain the specific corruption penalties that you feel are not a deterrent?

...

p.s. i plan on making you KOS in game, regardless of the corruption penalties.

Why ask me a question when you already have your answer?

Corruption isnt going to be a deterrent to many people, regardless of what the penalties are

As such, I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent.

Neither do you- so what is your question?

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent to engaging in PvP.

Noaani
Can you please explain the specific corruption penalties that you feel are not a deterrent?

...

p.s. i plan on making you KOS in game, regardless of the corruption penalties.

Why ask me a question when you already have your answer?

Corruption isnt going to be a deterrent to many people, regardless of what the penalties are

As such, I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent.

Neither do you- so what is your question?

You didn't give him a proper answer as to why you think majority of players are fine going corrupted. And willing to lose gear, *4 xp, and be a target for a large amount of players in the area, onto of the other negative factors.

Logic would dictate the stronger the negative consequences more likely players will be less likely to engage. You do view everything with logic and no emotion correct?

Noaani

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Abarat while not always true it seems many use “corruption isn’t a good enough deterrent” when they really mean “anyone who can attack me without my permission is a problem”

As someone who is not a serial killer but does enjoy owpvp quite a lot I think it is quite a deterrent already without knowing the exact gear/mat drop chances when corrupted or exact penalties, or how long it would take to work off corruption. That vague dial is already turned pretty far to make me think “I’m only doing this in some super rare occasions”.

While many people may use that phrasing for that reason, that isn't what I was talking about.

You see, the problem is, Abarat took the post out of context, and then asked me why I think a thing that I didn't say.

I'm going to quote you the whole post;

Noaani wrote: »

I dont see corruption as being all that much of a deterrent to engaging in PvP.

It may alter the outcome of PvP, however.

The reason for this statement is blatantly clear to anyone with a brain and a basic knowledge of the corruption system in Ashes (obviously Abarat lacks one of these).

You do not gain corruption by engaging in PvP, you *can* gain corruption if you kill someone that isn't fighting back.

As such, corruption will not be all that much of a deterrent in stopping people from initiating a fight, but it may well change the outcome of that fight on occasion.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

You didn't give him a proper answer as to why you think majority of players are fine going corrupted.

I didn't answer the question because he asked me why I said a thing I didn't say.

You need to learn how to read, so does Abarat.

If you graduated middle school (or your equivlent), I suggest asking your local school board for a refund. Even if all it cost you was time, it is clearly time that was wasted that you won't ever be able to get back.

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