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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
and was called out - and I will probably never hear from him again, thank god.
Who's gonna hit 50? The hardcore ones. They will have enough time and gold to buy the first bid, means the hardcore will fight against the hardcores for the freeholds. No casuals, no families.
A node has freehold at stage 3, not before. Freeholds are in the low thousands. That's for 86 nodes on the map though. Let's say at 2 months we have 20 nodes at stage level 3., Each node has 23 freeholds if we distribute evenly. (2k freeholds in total, again, low thousands)
So we now have 465 freeholds (20 nodes stage 3) for 2k players. So around 3-4 months all the freeholds are already taken. There's 1 node per every 4 person. People take the path of least resistance.
So, that's it. In 2 months you already know who's gonna rule the server.
Exactly, and hardcore guilds will talk with each other and make sure they get the nodes and freeholds with minimal competition. I guess if there are enough players to have some kind of low population server, then that would be a way for smaller families and solo players to have a chance of getting Freeholds. On the most competitive servers, there will be no chance at all.
are you telling me that if you play 1-2 hours a day you deserve having the same things that someone who plays 10 hours a day has at the same time? what about the effort of the hardcore player? he earned that. he had to sacrifice other things and spend time in game to achieve what he achieved. its notfair for him. why no one ever talks about that? about disregarding someone else effort in favor of someone who makes no effort...coughcommunismcough.
literally all you have to do is join a family or a guild and your chances of having access to a fh are increased, since there are enough fh for every family to have one. you can also negotiate with other players, socialize, make friends, make deals and split fh.
unfortunately, it will be very hard for the antisocial guy with social anxiety who plays alone for 1 hour a day and refuses to play with other people. he has the problem, why should the whole world change for him? why cant he fix himself and be brave and talk to people? god forbid.
the game has a target audience and is makes things for that audience. other people benefit from that and others not so much, but you cant make a product for everybody.
When did I say it was unfair? You keep reading shit when there is none. All I am saying is that you level up as casual, once you're 50, your only solution is to join a guild. And that's good, the game requires that, I'm all up for it.
Do you know what happens to people in power? They want more. The blance might be there the first 2 months, until sieges start. Then one or two guild will prevail, and that's it, everyone will belong to those guilds because it's the only way to get access to freeholds. Maybe no 2, but the server will be the playfield of just a handful of guilds, nothing for smaller guilds, families or whatever you wanna call it.
You know what is not fait? Paying 15 bucks to play 1/4 of the game.
Who's gonna take an undergeared warrior to a guild war
low population = easier for a big guild to rule.
ok lets say hardcore guilds make this mysterious deal. now who is going to be the competition? they gonna get bored because everybody is friends with everybody. then what? what happens when rb start spawning, or people want castles etc...there will be friction, then enemies and then take their fh...ppl will most likely try to screw u their other guild.
now lets assume they decide not to bid against each other and every player in the guild bids individually for a fh..guess what? now they are competing as individuals... so families, smaller guilds and individuals might be able to outbid them.
the point of the guild is to bid together...if u pool ur resources together, then you wont be able to bid for multiple fh because ur bidding on one...if you bid as individuals, now you arent pooling ur resources together, solving the problem people were talking about of guilds pooling their resources together. isnt this obvious?
ok big dominant guild fights big dominant guild, one of them loses. so its not fair that they pay 15$ because they lost that rb, or rare gatherable etc, right? xDDD
you win some oyu lose some.
also nodes > guilds. guilds wont be able to have all their members in one node..mega guilds i mean.
also guilds distributed in cp or families > large guilds who dont organize themselves like this.
Why would a casual care about a node in which they have no stakes in? No static housing, no freehold? Ohh, the node died, big deal
Had similar issues on d4 that made me stop recruiting on the game where people joined the guild, never interacted in voice chat and asked for carries. Best kicker was when someone asked me to run them through the campaign.
People need to also realize if you are joining a big guild or any guild for that matter you need to actually interact with the people. You can't just join and be a nameless face that does nothing and ask for things.
exactly. he can still get his stuff on another node. everybody who plays the game has access to everything. you might nto win everything tho but thats a different story.
Can you please explain exactly how bidding for freeholds will work? prerequisites, where you do it, how you do it, time frame, are there factors other than gold, e.g. faction, that play a role? who/what is the authority which provides the opportunity to bid? Are there any circumstances where a permit could be revoked? What are the upfront and ongoing costs of owning a freehold? What are the construction costs for various buildings? and how do the options you choose to build effect the upkeep cost, if at all?
Since you have provided such dire feedback on the bidding and freehold system, I am assuming you have these details top of mind.
I eagerly await being educated.
Yes, this... this is exactly the same reason why Blockbuster Video has such a strong and long standing monopoly on the video rental industry.
They died because the world changed. You cannot do that in a static game
Are you sure? there will be no relationships with the npcs in the world? you wont gain faction/favor with a certain religion by doing quests, etc.?
I think this is the basis of your problem with the game. I do not believe Steven is thinking of the world of Verra as static. That is why all these systems which promote conflict are being invented. There will be the rise and fall of empires. That is what Steven seems to like. Go back and watch/listen to early interviews or when he talks about his own experiences. This is HIS game, that is what he likes.
There are no factions like there were in EQ2 or WoW (good city vs evil city), but I bet there will still be a way to curry favor (or distrust) from various NPC groups.
In Everquest, for example, faction was a term to describe your relationship with npc's. You could effect your faction or standing by doing things... some of which raised your faction, some hurt it.
For example,
Ally - 1100 to 2000+
Warmly - 750 to 1099
Kindly - 500 to 749
etc.
Various actions could be given small or larger amount based on the severity and difficulty. There were some things that were only available to you if your faction with them was above a predetermined level.
Oh, and the whole "I've yet to see a good argument" could be solved by actually trying to read and understand the points made, since it seems a lot of you just make a bunch of assumptions. We're still going in circles, we say X, then you come in and say, "so you want Y". Nope, try actually reading.
A lot of good arguments have been presented, you just don't want to acknowledge them, because they go against your views or something, I have no idea.
When you say everyone will be able to get a Freehold. That's true, but only in theory. You're purposefully being ignorant about how games actually work. Most of us actually realize that in practice, it just won't be the case.
When you make assumptions like: "Oh you just want everything handed to you", "You just want a participation trophy" or anything else along those lines, you're again just making unfounded assumptions. Nobody has ever said they want to easily get a hold of a Freehold without effort. You're just trying to see that because you're biased.
Here, "you" doesn't aim at any particular person, it's used in general for everyone making those arguments.
Overall, locking a large % of playerbase from owning a Freehold does nothing good for the game. Likewise, letting everyone easily obtain one, also does nothing good for the game. It's about fine tuning where the game lands between those 2. Right now, it's way closer to former, and it needs to move a little bit more towards the middle.
If you said a large % wouldn't be able to reach legendary armor, for example. Or they wouldn't be able to get the best mount, or whatever else, most of us here would actually be fine with that. You can still have good mounts, you can still have great armor, but in order to make that step towards the best, you need to make certain decisions (whether that's playing more hardcore/joining a hardcore guild, or w/e else).
Freeholds however, just don't work like that. Freehold isn't just the best housing you can get, it also offers unique mechanics and gameplay features that are exclusive to it. It needs to be more accessible, without compromising on the feeling of actually achieving something when you get one, and without just handing it out to everyone without letting people put in an effort to get it.
It's like limiting mounts only to rich and hardcore players, by limiting the total number of mounts there are in the game, all while the rest of players are left without a mount. It's not just about the travel speed, as mounts also have unique abilities, utility skills, stats, they look cool and different, etc. You're locking players out completely out of certain elements of the game, in practice (because in theory "everyone should be able to get one").
But if mounts are a finite resource, then your only hope of owning one is a player with a mount quitting the game, or losing the mount in battle. Then you're left fighting for that mount against thousands of people, good luck getting it, because remember there are people who are way more rich and powerful than you, and the only way to get it is via bidding system.
But I'm guessing you would be ecstatic with that sort of a system, so I'm sorry for giving you ideas, please don't suggest it to Intrepid.
The game actually solves that rather well, by giving us all mounts, with various tiers and rarities. If you really want that best of the best mount, well you have to work really hard for it, and be a guild leader or something. But everyone actually gets a mount. Everyone knows how it feels to own a mount, and the effect it has on your gameplay...
With Freeholds, you either have it or you don't. And you're more likely not to have it, because remember, spots are limited, and bidding with gold is awful.
Quote with an actual quote, not a screenshot.
You could change the screenshot to be anything, and there would be no record of you changing it.
If you change a quote, people are able to click a button to take them to it anyway, donuts pointless.
Screenshot works perfectly in this case
https://youtu.be/4sUTuUAgavE?t=4089
Timestamp: 1:08:09
Incase the URL timestamp doesn't work. Also I never said the word 'everyone on the server,' I said whoever wants a freehold will be able to have one, there's a difference in language here my guy. Whoever =/= everyone.
What I said still stand, considering that quote. Noaani provided a much better quote for your argument, but I said my thoughts on that one already.
What you said doesn't stand though, when Steven goes into detail about how to obtain a freehold, no one was thinking of a bidding system.
I think it's quite clear that the people who are excited about this new development (the minority) are people that enjoy what it allows them to achieve, which is to have a form of control over a large majority of the player base on a server.
When you lock a majority of the player base out of husbandry, that allows large guilds to control the market when it comes to pets, mounts, livestock, and beast of burden. They get to control the financial market of those aspects of the game. However, it goes beyond just that.
They also get to control the market when it comes to t4 and t5 crafting as well, the large guilds won't be subjective to such high prices in the market place, since they will be the ones who have access to processing those high tier refinement goods, it will be the 90% of the player base that is subjected to those high prices.
And your solution to those problems is that they should join a guild, but those people are probably in guilds already, perhaps smaller guilds that won't be able to compete with large zerg guilds that control the market, so they will also be subjected to the same issues that this new system creates.
Also, there's the continuous fact that people in this thread who enjoy this new development, keep labeling those who aren't happy with this new development as 'casuals/solo players,' yet I've seen none of the people who've expressed their concerns with this new development as solo/casuals.
They will control top lvl stuff either way, because they will be farming all that stuff. Even if strong guilds only had a single processing freehold - they'd still control t4-5 processing/crafting, because they'd be controlling t4-5 gathering.
Your small guild can't stand up to them alone? Work with other small guilds. Work with another strong guild that's just a bit weaker than their main opponent. I know this works because I've done so in Lineage 2 (both as a GL and as a solo player coming into a guild).
I'm gonna be a solo player. Most likely I won't get a freehold. I still support this change and will like the game if this features has no future changes.
If it does change - no water off my back, because I'm content with not having a freehold.
You can be an EotS along with me, brother.
Well, no, it's not wrong about husbandry since that's what's currently listed on the wiki, that husbandry is only accessible on freeholds. Obviously, that is subjected to change; however, for now that is the current UpToDate information, so how is that wrong?
Also, they wouldn't be able to control top level stuff if you create a system that allows competition. When you do not create a system that allows for competition, then you create a monopoly, and the bidding system they're implementing does just that.
Also, your example of Lineage 2 is nice; however, as someone that's active in the Albion community, the reality is that massive guilds dominate smaller guilds, or buy them out. The reality is that if large guilds are given the opportunity to protect their investment then they will do so, everyone has a price. So, the grasp on human psychology when it comes to control over other is far reaching.
I'm also content with having no freehold as well; however, when it comes to the bidding system and how much emphasis Steven put into what it would take to achieve a freehold, I was thinking that it would take resources that are extremely rare to get in the game. Like world boss drops, massive amounts of gatherable resources, craftable materials, and gold. However, the system they introduced was a mere bidding system instead. I think that type of system undermines what Steven was originally implying to the overall community when he was answering that question a year ago.
As someone that plays Albion online, that has a similar feature that Ashes wants to implement into the game, you have to have alternatives that allow other players to be able to advance at a reasonable pace (not the fastest pace) as those at the top. Otherwise those players have no incentive to play to begin with.
Yes, and big guilds usually win out in those competitions. The only ones who can contend is either other big guilds or combinations of smaller ones.
Does Albion only have one guild? If there are several big guilds who compete for resources and need people to win against each other, those small guilds can sell themselves to the highest bidder. And then use that money to help their members get a freehold or two.
There's other ways to climb out of heavy in-game poverty, but those would probably take more effort.
We'll need to do a quest to even be able to bid. That quest can include the things you mentioned. But you know who'll still win out in that case? The big guilds.
The only way to give everyone a truly equal chance of getting a freehold is to set it at a default price and to make freeholds instanced. Everyone will get one and everyone will be happy. Well, as long as Intrepid can figure out the economic impact of that approach.
But in pretty much any other method the big guilds will win 90% of the time (and that's probably lowballing it)
And I agree with this and said as much in other threads. And considering all the strong feedback Intrepid has received in the last week, I'm sure that the system will change.
I mean, yeah, you're right about some of this.
My guild is currently playing a PvP game. Of the 45 members in the guild now, 43 have access to alpha 2. Of them, I am the only one even considering playing the game when it goes live at this point.
So no, me and my guild wont be testing out sieges. There is a good chance I wont be testing out anything at all.
That is because as far as we are concerned, the game falls significantly below our standards.
You may well decide to play. You may even end up in one of the top guilds on your server.
However, if you end up in that position, you are a top dog in a game many better players consider beneath them.
@Depraved
This post seems at first glance to be something you put a reasonable amount of thought/time in to.
I always appreciate actual effort, and try to reciprocate. However, just now I dont have the time required.
Rather than replying to some posts that require less effort and passing over this one till later, I'm just letting you (and anyone else that cares) know that I will reply to this in about 6 - 8 hours.