Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
It's hard to measure intent, we don't know why someone just killing someone repeatedly.
ive played a few games with toggle pvp and i have to say it kind of ruins ow pvp...we will get a swarm of players gathering non stop, destroying the land, and you wont be able to kill them or protect your land from over farming.
so how would you guys deal with that? remember that changes made to one system affect other systems.
now there wont be conflicts and alliances over resources, because people wont even pvp for them.
no pvp for bosses.
no pvp in ow dungeons.
no pvp for scarce resources, so people who just camp then(bots) will win and nothing really you can do about it.
and before anyone says, well auto flag areas...still doesnt solve the issues mentioned above in non auto flagged areas. the game is designed with conflict in mind...ow pvp is what fuels node wars, clan wars, etc. so now you have to go and change everything.
giving incentives to be flagged also doesnt work. most people wont want the risk of losing their stuff because they have been gathering for 2 hours, if they can avoid that risk, pvers wont flag (or they could just gather then get summoned by a family member to town...). at least everybody is on equal grounds now with the current system. Whether you are attacked or not, depends mostly on the friends and enemies you make along the way.
I agree with what you say. My point is corruption is basically flagging unflagging, at least for the greens. So its one sided really. Sure you can kill the green, but you wont do it repeatedly. So you will have a bunch of greens not flagging doing the gathering. Only one side is punished. Does not sound fun to me.
both sides are punished. the green could also fight back?
with pvp toggle you wouldnt even have the option to attack the green while gathering, which is even worse for the reasons mentioned in my previous post
Carebears will not be happy with high level gathering areas that auto-flag.
Everyone can think of disaster scenarios.
The Corruption mechanic is not brand new. It's variation of Karma in Lineage 2.
All of the game devs Steven hired have previous experience working on MMORPGs.
Corruption will be tweaked during Alpha 2 - but it's not going to feel perfect for everyone.
Opt-in is a big no.
Ya, I get it, but it will come to the point no one will attack the green anyway. That is the point. Its "flagging lite". Sure a couple hardcore self punishing types will kill a green once in awhile, until they wont anymore because its not worth it. Hence zones filled with greens gathering.
Can you explain please?
That's not a problem.
At some point, those Gatherers will want to transport Resources via Caravans.
And, there is no Corruption associated with attacking Caravans.
Can you explain please?
That is missing the point.
thats why there is an incentive to kill gatherers, and its called the land management system. people wont be happy with outsiders destroying their node's resources. so they can either talk to them or kill them.
You just don't share Steven's vision of PvP for Ashes. Especially since you haven't played Liniage II.
Right, at what cost? Who suffers more in the end?
I do overall share stevens veiw. I just do not like parts of it, in which we are discussing. As far as missing the point, we are talking about gathering, and you dismiss the argument saying there will always be greens gathering, and that is not the problem. That is your opinion, I have mine saying that it will be mostly greens gathering without risk. Sure on paper there is risk, but it will not work out that way in the long run. Especially once the meta games start coming into effect. With corruption scaling with player level, gatherers will be the least level possible to utilize the most out of corruption. I assume we will be able to see player skill levels, not sure. See you are one of the reasons that this is a bad idea. You will never flag, you will never fight back, and you will use corruption as intended. You are self admittedly a care bear playing in a pvp world, and will be happy for your pally bubble option. Others like me do not see it the way you see it. Also I did not know that I had to play other games to understand how this one will work. Pretty sure there will be many players that have not played L2.
if i get what you mean correctly, the player who goes red has the potential to lose more than the gatherer. so you want a pvp toggle where the person with pvp on doesnt suffer those penalties? the thing is, you will be the only person with the toggle on, because the gatherers wont turn it on so you might as well not even attack them in the first place in ow pvp (also some gatherers will be pvpers as well).
so you dont want a system where pvers arent attacked, you want a system where pvpers dont suffer penalties?
if someone kills a green, the green suffers penalties immediately and the red player suffers deferred penalties. if you cleanse your corruption, you wont suffer any penalty, so the key part is to know when you can go red and when you cant. with a toggle, you dont even have the option and pvpers will suffer more in the long run (no easy way to get rid of pve griefers, cant have a spot for yourself, land management screwed, etc). also, if you play in a group, corruption is a minimal problem. the worst thing that can happen is that you drop some gear and your party picks them up and returns them to you.
"so you dont want a system where pvers arent attacked, you want a system where pvpers dont suffer penalties?" No, that is not what I am saying. I'm saying that is what will organically happen, although they can be attacked.
Sure, the penalty for the green is instant, but is it severe? They just pick up and go along as normal. They stick their tongue out and say nany nany boo boo to you and keep on keepin on. Whereas you talk about removing corruption, its not nearly as easy.
"Removing corruption
The primary means to remove corruption is through death. Multiple deaths may be necessary to remove all corruption.[69][35]
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[70]
Gaining experience will also slowly reduce a player's corruption score.[71][22][69]
Any experience that's gained by the player, whether it be through achievements in crafting, or in adventuring, or through other types of achievements: All of that experience goes towards your adventuring class experience gained; and then some experience can dual purpose towards professions as well. So if I reach an achievement in my crafting profession and that grants me additional experience within that profession to rank up, it will also grant the same amount of experience over in my adventuring level; and to that point, anytime you gain adventuring experience you tick away at the corruption.[71] – Steven Sharif
A quest may be utilized to reduce the player kill (PK) count of a corrupt player in order for them to accumulate less corruption score in the future.[72][70]
This is a design shift from a religious quest being used to directly reduce the corruption score.[73]
Corruption duration is reduced in military nodes.[74]"
Also you have to remember you cannot buy or sell, you cannot bank, or storage. You cannot trade with others.
Sure, lots of peeps will be going red.... *rolls eyes*
This was also practiced, to a point, in L2. Though it wasn't as successful as just being better than your opponent and outfarming him on the location, leaving him no resources.
Corruption is the last available tool to "win" an encounter. It's the tool of the desperate, the weak and the deranged. But it's a tool that should always exist, because everyone at some point will be one of those people, and in that exact moment they'll wish that they had that tool.
Corruption scales with level discrepancy. Yes.
Might not be able to clearly see player skill levels. That's part of the Risk of attacking Greens.
I won't be flagging, but I also won't be Gathering.
I won't be playing the game as intended, so... this really has nothing to do with me.
You mean others do not see it the way Steven sees it - especially if they have not played L2.
To have a clear and meaningful understanding of how Corruption works you need to know how Karma works in L2 (or a game with a similar mechanic) or test Corruption in Alpha 2.
not a lot of people will be going red. corruption isnt a desirable state. what i mean is not having ow pvp in a game designed with ow pvp in mind will be worst for the pvpers in the long run. corruption penalties arent instant, as in you can avoid them if you dont die and if you are with your party, they dont matter that much. also, you can deal with pvers without having to kill them and go red, but if oyu make ow pvp a toggle, you cant even do that.
You could find volunteers to rapidly stack up corruption, but then it will lack the "organic" pilling up. Easy to test the extremes of low corruption and high corruption, but not truly representative of what it will be once the game is live. The flow of gaining and purging. I expect reds will be hunted down quite eagerly in A2, I'm not sure will be as bad when the population has more PvE focused players thrown in.
I wasn't part of A1, and won't be in A2 either, but maybe the people who were have better insights. Anyone has plans, ideas or ways they will test all this system in A2?
the only thing that matters (at least to me, since ive already had this system) is how long it takes for me to clear the corruption. how long it takes will determine how many people will go red. if it takes only a few mobs, more people will go red more often. if it takes 100+ mobs and maybe you can only kill 50-100 per hour, less people will go red, unless they are super safe or with their party.
I do not want a toggle either, but what I am saying is that there basically will be one, if not on paper. I understand your argument and mostly agree with it. What I am saying is that the point at least for you is situational. "if you don't die" "if you run in groups" lots of situational things yes, then maybe it can work for you. I also wonder about how long it will take to get rid of corruption as that will have a huge impact. Imagine if it takes a long while, and you cannot get gear? If you cannot bank, trade, buy or sell? If you lose your weapon on death and the green now has it and you have to wait out your corruption without being able to do anything? Stuff like this goes through my mind. If we can nail down these questions it will help in being able to make the corruption system more palletable or not. I do appreciate your comments.
As soon as you make opt-in PvP the option, people naturally choose the path of least resistance for the greatest advantage. In this case, nobody turns on PvP flagging in open world, killing OW PvP as a result. You see it in WoW, and you see it in New World clear as day.
I understand this. And in this case with you, corruption is not working as a deterent. You are already finding work arounds for it. You will deal with it and keep on doing what you do. What I am saying is if people feel the way I do, the will not. So if there are more people like you then it will be fine I guess.
The balancing is somewhere in the middle, a bit closer to WoW's side, purely so that casuals can have fun in the game. As others have already said, any opt-in-like system will just create WoW.
That is what I mean, but I don't think aggressive greens should have that happen for then. The difference between bounty hunters and aggressive greens would then be that aggressive greens don't give more corruption but deal with the corrupt and their debuffs as is. While bounty hunters would deal with corrupt at full power but also be fighting the harder battle for a greater reward.
Then, the sliders for stat dampening, XP dept, mat drop and time to work off the corruption can be adjusted until the PK count is to Steven's liking.
Again, I do not want an opt in flag system, but that is basically what we will have. I understand the WoW argument, never played L2. I understand that corruption is a core feature of game design also, but it is just wrong in its implementation IMO. You just validate my point that there will be little to no overworld pvp. Like I stated, you will have mostly greens running around gathering without any consequences, because corruption will be to severe. Basically a pvp toggle.