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Ground Targeted AOEs are not skillshots.

SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground.

Skills shots, require that you shoot them.
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Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    They are also the most boring abilities I have even seen, with the exception of Standard of Might (dragonknight eso).
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I guess that for me, this depends on how large they are.

    Divine Flare skill... eh.

    Sevarog Subjugation... I can miss, partially due to startup.

    Fey Brambles line? Skillshot.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    You concentrate on the shot part and I'd concentrate on the skill part. If the ability requires skill (particularly mechanical) - it's a skillshot. So on top of the size that Azherae mentioned, timing of the skill (delayed effects and all that) could require skill as well.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    You concentrate on the shot part and I'd concentrate on the skill part. If the ability requires skill (particularly mechanical) - it's a skillshot. So on top of the size that Azherae mentioned, timing of the skill (delayed effects and all that) could require skill as well.

    Ground Target AoEs are not hard. Its not a skill shot because there no aiming component required.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Ground Target AoEs are not hard. Its not a skill shot because there no aiming component required.
    That only applies to huge aoes. A small aoe would be difficult to catch someone in. And even with a single second delay on the effect would immediately make it more difficult than any shot that has a much higher speed of application.

    And if you're talking about hitting stunned/CCed characters - the same is true for "skillshots" as well.

    Also, quite often those aoes don't have a huge single hit dmg application and instead are either DoTs or a one-time application of the debuff/effect if an enemy enters the ground aoe at any point of its duration.

    Also also, not all action abilities have to be skillshots. And Steven is usually talking about general action abilities rather than skillshots, so I'm not really sure what this thread is even about.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    You concentrate on the shot part and I'd concentrate on the skill part. If the ability requires skill (particularly mechanical) - it's a skillshot. So on top of the size that Azherae mentioned, timing of the skill (delayed effects and all that) could require skill as well.

    Ground Target AoEs are not hard. Its not a skill shot because there no aiming component required.

    you have to aim...
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Ground Target AoEs are not hard. Its not a skill shot because there no aiming component required.
    That only applies to huge aoes. A small aoe would be difficult to catch someone in. And even with a single second delay on the effect would immediately make it more difficult than any shot that has a much higher speed of application.

    And if you're talking about hitting stunned/CCed characters - the same is true for "skillshots" as well.

    Also, quite often those aoes don't have a huge single hit dmg application and instead are either DoTs or a one-time application of the debuff/effect if an enemy enters the ground aoe at any point of its duration.

    Also also, not all action abilities have to be skillshots. And Steven is usually talking about general action abilities rather than skillshots, so I'm not really sure what this thread is even about.

    Their latest tweet about how Divine Flare is an AoE skillshot heal.

    I'd say it's a good feedback thread for that.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    Their latest tweet about how Divine Flare is an AoE skillshot heal.

    I'd say it's a good feedback thread for that.
    Ahh, right, I don't pay attention to that part of the page. I gueeeess it applies then, though with it being a delayed effect I'd still say that it qualifies as a skillshot. But this is just yet another semantic debate, which I'm kinda tired of already, so whatever :)
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    I mean, it depends. AoE doesn't necessarily mean it is a large area. So placement is an important skill in many cases. And with the addition of synergies, certain AoE effects could instantly become a skill shot based on the timing you would need for it to synergize with other abilities in a particular area. But I would say that the skill shots you are meaning tend to usually take MORE skill.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Their latest tweet about how Divine Flare is an AoE skillshot heal.

    I'd say it's a good feedback thread for that.
    Ahh, right, I don't pay attention to that part of the page. I gueeeess it applies then, though with it being a delayed effect I'd still say that it qualifies as a skillshot. But this is just yet another semantic debate, which I'm kinda tired of already, so whatever :)

    It's actually not a semantic debate, a skillshot is something you aim not place.

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    It's actually not a semantic debate, a skillshot is something you aim not place.
    lotnhl5ixd6l.png

    Literally a semantic debate that's been going on for years. You thinking that it's not, while me thinking that it is IS in fact a debate and it's about semantics. Which makes this whole discussion an argument about semantics :)
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    It's actually not a semantic debate, a skillshot is something you aim not place.
    lotnhl5ixd6l.png

    Literally a semantic debate that's been going on for years. You thinking that it's not, while me thinking that it is IS in fact a debate and it's about semantics. Which makes this whole discussion an argument about semantics :)

    3wgbsbwakunz.png

    Show me where the fuck do you aim that ability? Placing an ability is not the same as aiming, no matter how many people want to argue.

    They can all be wrong too. Aiming is aiming, placing is placing.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    In this case, it's really the timing; not the aim. Because Divine Flare has a delay that can be missed.
    NiKr wrote: »
    You concentrate on the shot part and I'd concentrate on the skill part. If the ability requires skill (particularly mechanical) - it's a skillshot. So on top of the size that Azherae mentioned, timing of the skill (delayed effects and all that) could require skill as well.
    It's a skill for sure. Skillshot typically means there is a decent chance that your aim might be off or your target dashes away causing you to miss. These are reticle skills.

    AOE telegraphs are the antithesis of skillshots.
    If the telegraph radius is tiny - that might be a skillshot. But, that's not the case for Divine Flare.
    If it were a damage telegraph, Divine Flare could be a skillshot - because the damage would be delayed and the caster would have to try to time the moves of the targets to so they won't dodge.
    With Divine Flare, you don't really use the caster's player skill to be sure your allies don't miss the delay heal.

    Not that it matters.
    Calling Divine Flare a skillshot is a nitpick.
    Sometimes people are not precise with their terms.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    3wgbsbwakunz.png

    Show me where the fuck do you aim that ability? Placing an ability is not the same as aiming, no matter how many people want to argue.

    They can all be wrong too. Aiming is aiming, placing is placing.
    I'll entertain you one more time and then I'm out.

    What is aiming? Is it not the movement of your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction?

    What do you do when you want to place the ability on the ground? You fucking move your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction.

    And as both my and your screenshots point out - it also requires timing. You know what you'll need to hit someone with a placeable delayed aoe? FUCKING TIMING.

    Semantic bullshit all day every day ffs :)
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    An example of an AoE skillshot in its most basic form I can remember is timing and placing a blizzard as a mage immediately against a rogue that just vanished in WoW.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    3wgbsbwakunz.png

    Show me where the fuck do you aim that ability? Placing an ability is not the same as aiming, no matter how many people want to argue.

    They can all be wrong too. Aiming is aiming, placing is placing.
    I'll entertain you one more time and then I'm out.

    What is aiming? Is it not the movement of your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction?

    What do you do when you want to place the ability on the ground? You fucking move your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction.

    And as both my and your screenshots point out - it also requires timing. You know what you'll need to hit someone with a placeable delayed aoe? FUCKING TIMING.

    Semantic bullshit all day every day ffs :)

    You don’t aim placed AoEs.

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    Guess you don't move your mouse at all then huh. Guess that scene in the tweet doesn't have Steven moving the aoe all over the damn screen and ground. I'm out. Fuck this.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    An example of an AoE skillshot in its most basic form I can remember is timing and placing a blizzard as a mage immediately against a rogue that just vanished in WoW.

    Placing and Aiming are not the same.

  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Guess you don't move your mouse at all then huh. Guess that scene in the twit doesn't have Steven moving the aoe all over the damn screen and ground. I'm out. Fuck this.

    Smite, Predecessor, Valheim, Apex Legends, Conq Blade, New World have abilities that demonstrate a proper skill shot.

    I don’t like enhanced tab being marketed as a hybrid.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    3wgbsbwakunz.png

    Show me where the fuck do you aim that ability? Placing an ability is not the same as aiming, no matter how many people want to argue.

    They can all be wrong too. Aiming is aiming, placing is placing.
    I'll entertain you one more time and then I'm out.

    What is aiming? Is it not the movement of your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction?

    What do you do when you want to place the ability on the ground? You fucking move your mouse across the screen to find your target and use your ability in their direction.

    And as both my and your screenshots point out - it also requires timing. You know what you'll need to hit someone with a placeable delayed aoe? FUCKING TIMING.

    Semantic bullshit all day every day ffs :)

    You don’t aim placed AoEs.

    true. the game reads your mind and places the aoe on the ground after you press the skill
  • FiddlezFiddlez Member
    Solvryn wrote: »
    You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground.

    Skills shots, require that you shoot them.

    Kind of feel like we are getting a little particular here.

    I don't mind them but I prefer autocast features on AoE target skills. Demon hunter in WoW does it decently. Either way I just kind of find them a pain in the ass. Doesn't feel good for me.

  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    An example of an AoE skillshot in its most basic form I can remember is timing and placing a blizzard as a mage immediately against a rogue that just vanished in WoW.

    Placing and Aiming are not the same.

    You point, you click. It's the same thing. I think your real argument is types of skill shots which could be by how they are delivered
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    i do hope we get some more line type attacks or cones kinda like how u see in moba's aoe circles are fine but would like to see more variety in skill shots (yes circles are skill shots to a degree but some line attacks would be nice to see.
  • SunboySunboy Member
    Can we not just agree that it’s on a spectrum and not black and white.

    Much love ❤️
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    An example of an AoE skillshot in its most basic form I can remember is timing and placing a blizzard as a mage immediately against a rogue that just vanished in WoW.

    Placing and Aiming are not the same.

    You point, you click. It's the same thing. I think your real argument is types of skill shots which could be by how they are delivered

    They're not the same the same thing.

  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Fiddlez wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground.

    Skills shots, require that you shoot them.

    Kind of feel like we are getting a little particular here.

    I don't mind them but I prefer autocast features on AoE target skills. Demon hunter in WoW does it decently. Either way I just kind of find them a pain in the ass. Doesn't feel good for me.

    I prefer we just not mislabel things.

    Especially when there are many other games for juxtaposition.
  • KorelaKorela Member
    I do not like sight-focused aim mechanics. This is the main reason I do not play FPS games a lot. "Ground" skills are fine compromise for me because it requires to place it in 2D and do not gives me 3D-aim-related sickness.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Korela wrote: »
    I do not like sight-focused aim mechanics. This is the main reason I do not play FPS games a lot. "Ground" skills are fine compromise for me because it requires to place it in 2D and do not gives me 3D-aim-related sickness.

    I just don't like labeling an apple, a cherry.

    If I go to eat an apple pie and I get cherry pie, I'm going to spit it out. I love cherries, but I dislike cherry pie.

    If we're going to get a hybrid. I expect it to have half the elements of action combat, half the elements of tab.

    I rather have a high skill ceiling game and the flower pickers pick the flowers.
  • SylvanarSylvanar Member
    If it is an active spell i.e. just clicking the icon doesn't cast it then it is a skillshot.

    By OP logic if you activate a ground target spell, turn around and place it somewhere far away, it should still hit the enemy cuz it is not a skillshot and you placed it on the ground thereby satisfying all the conditions for the spell to hit.

    Skill ceiling has nothing to do with a spell being a skillshot or not. Apple or cherry doesn't matter here. Facts are facts.
    "Suffer in silence"
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    Placing an AOE telegraph is not the same thing as aiming.

    The OP logic neither explicitly nor implicitly conforms with your interpretation of the logic.
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