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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Aiming is placing
They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle.
Alas, they are not.
Yes, I have pointed firearms at the ground on many occasions to clear a barrel.
actual aim
Chonkers, you don’t make cents. If you were a better Tulnar could make some gold though.
how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click...
the game doesnt read your mind
the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex.
They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision.
You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle.
A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug.
You place rug on the ground or on a wall.
If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it.
If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air.
Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface.
2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something.
like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe.
aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything.
aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting.
There is spell and missile collision in Ashes of Creation, meaning you can stand in front of a missile or object moving in 3d space and block it, obstruct it, etc.
You're factually incorrect, aiming has everything to do with the trajectory of a projectile. The only exception to this is a guided missile system.
That translates to target systems like tab and ground targets.
how do you aim a camera then? where is the projectile?
We're talking about the trajectory of a projectile,
In order for a projectile to have a trajectory you would first have to aim the weapon from which you shot/launched/fired the projectile from.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trajectory
The only time that isn't true is in a guided missile system.
And technically, you don't aim a camera you orient the camera lense in the direction of where you want to record light being refracted off an object.
aka aiming xD
you can say that ground aoes dont have a trajectory and that they arent skill shots, but you still have to aim o.o
Targeting systems are not aiming systems. I’ve already explained it.
the funny thing is they could just make it shoot a fast projectile or a instant ray from crosshair that spawns the ground circle/aoe instead of "placing" it via cursor tbh
Funny thing is people being it not a skill shot cause u dont aim it with a crosshair type thing but a cross hair is aimed by the mouse sooooo is it not the same you just get a slightly different camera angle.
I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse.
You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle.
Ummm but you aim a recticle by pointing the mouse. So is it not the exact same thing the only difference is you get a different camera angle.
I do however think there should be 2 different types of AoE one you aiom via cross hair and other you place via cursor (there both skill shots however different perspective) Crosshair aiming should however be stronger than mouse since you sacrifice higher camera angle for height which make it harder to land so sacrafic for reward. Could make Ground aoe 2 options to pick one.
I dont know how it's so hard for some of these people to get this. Aiming entails directing your skill towards a target in motion or from a far, a skill which can be blocked or dodge.
Placing an Aoe on the ground in hopes of a target moving towards that section of the ground is totally different thing.
That Divine skill ain't a skillshot and will genuinely confuse ppl
exactly. the aoe doesnt spawn from nowhere, but i didnt wanna get into that since thats more of an implementation discussion. from the player's perspective the aoe just spawns wherever you aimed at (but it can also be implemented that way)
Aiming involves fixing a reticle on an active target. Yes, that target can be standing still, but the existence of impactful aimed skillshots tends to discourage that sort of behavior, keeping combat more mobile, and those aimed skillshots, well, skillful.
Placed abilities are also somewhat skill based, because they require the player to figure out the best area to place them on and when to place them. However, you're not aiming at anything specifically when you place the ability. Aiming requires the potential to miss your target and have zero effect. You can't miss the ground. You might say, "Well, I'm aiming at the feet of Jon Smith over there, and he might move out of the way," but placed abilities aren't about hitting an active target. You were never aiming at the feet of Jon Smith, you were placing the AoE on the ground underneath the feet of Jon Smith, exactly where the ground decal said it would be, and the ability landed exactly where you wanted it to and did everything the ability does. Whether or not Jon Smith rolled out of the decal before the ability went off is irrelevant to the fact that you placed a huge decal on the ground and the ability worked exactly as intended whether or not it had the effect you were hoping for.
Both aimed skillshots and ground-targeted abilities involve a degree of skill, but it's absolutely no question that aimed skillshots are on the higher end of required skill to use effectively.
Here's the problem - you can't have a tab-action hybrid game and still include true aimed skillshots, because if someone chooses to play in tab only, they'll never get to use those reticle based abilities, or will outright denounce the game for forcing them to use them after saying for years that you'll have the option between the two. There are a huge number of people following this game who won't play if aimed skillshots become a requirement for peak combat effectiveness, and it's fairly clear that this point that aimed skillshots aren't the direction that the team is heading in. If you haven't watched the basic ranged attacks showcase they put out last year, go take a look. It's basically GW2 style ranged combat with soft-tab selection, hitboxes aren't even really a part of it. Something tells me they won't be shifting away from that.
The issue is whether a large, placed telegraph AoE is aimed or a shot.
Divine Flare is definitely an Active Skill. Divine Flare is not shot at a target.
how do you aim a camera?
you can miss the ground, at least the exact point where you tried to place the aoe.
Ah well, some people want to try to debate everything and mistook my statement for an argument.
If its GW2 combat, then market it as tab enhanced.
Don’t try to market it as something it’s not.
The thing about it is if it’s going to be a hybrid, then it requires damn near equal parts action combat.
A tab players lack of ability doesn’t constitute improperly labeling their combat system, if a tab player feels so entitled that they’ll act weak and powerless throwing a shit fit then, bye! Oh well man community is better off.
A hybrid is a hybrid. It’s not a tab leaning hybrid, it’s not an action leaning hybrid. It’s not tab enhanced, it’s not action diminished. It’s not tab nor action.
The words matter.
Is there a universally accepted definition for "hybrid combat" in mmos?
Cause "it's a shooter" doesn't quite seem like the accepted definition. Everyone seems to call BDO an "action-combat mmo", yet afaik it has soft lock for archers and majority of skills are aoe.
So it seems that "action combat" usually means "you can use a skill w/o having a tab target" and not "you shoot a projectile for every single skill".
Conquerors Blade, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Valheim doesn’t have soft lock and has complete free-aim.
More than likely most people have not played many of the action combat titles and only can formulate an opinion based off of the narrow amount of titles they have experienced.
I have never had combat discussions with anyone who’s ever said either of those statements, ever.
Depends on the game I'm playing. If it's a good one, I'm leading the target. I'm assuming the point you're trying to make is that leading a target with a precisely aimed skillshot is equatable to placing a ground decal beneath someone's feet or where you think they're going to be.
This same sort of thought did cross my mind while I was typing that comment. True, at any given point in time, pointing the camera at something could be considered "aiming", but aiming usually requires a degree of precision. When you're shooting arrows, for instance you have to stabilize your bow arm, consider wind speed and direction if you're out in the open, and aim high enough above your target to account for gravity given the distance they are from you.
And yes, aiming at a particular spot on the ground is still technically aiming, but what if your bow had a magic light that beamed an absolute perfect map onto the ground of where your arrow will land? You can see it perfectly without even staring down the sightline of the arrow. You could completely detach your eyes from what's happening and just line up the marker on the ground exactly where you want it, and boom, it's there. Oh, and the person you were aiming at? Yeah, if they're anywhere within a 2m radius of the arrow, you still landed it.
Now tell me there's not a difference there.
Also, how popular are those games? Especially the first 3. Yes, Valheim has free-aim, but it's also not an mmo and its multiplayer is 10 people at most (or at least a quick google says so).
What I'm trying to say is this. Majority of mmo players don't want to play a shooter in their fantasy mmos. They have mmo shooters and normal multiplayer shooters for that.
Yet we have the example of a grenade launcher which also has a big aoe at the impact. It still requires skill to hit a moving target with it, but it might be a bit less skill than hitting it with an arrow (though it's mainly just different skills overall).
My point is that it's silly to limit the term "skillshot" to only the things that shoot projectiles and instead just keep it to things that require skill. And delayed-effect abilities require skill to land, so imo they fit the definition of a skillshot.
It's really strange to call skillshot something based off of emotions rather than based on the word itself. Shot implies a projectile, why be so abject?
Why are we comparing the difficulty of an arrow and grenade launcher? Why? What does that have to do with aiming and targeting? Projectile vs non projectile?
Do a majority of players also scramble to the forums to discuss skill difficulty? That seems like it would be a thing someone would do if they're afraid of being either outskilled or left behind.
Its crazy to think that in this whole thread, while we were discussing something related to science and math, some were relating it to difficulty level. Why be worried about this?
I don't give a shit of how popular a game is. Doesn't stop me from finding out if its good or not, people who have only played the popular games have that narrow experience gap to choose another game from, where as people who greater experience probably have a better understanding of the genre.
Now theres an issue, what Steven said and what actually happened on the screen is not the same. You can go back and look at it. Now remember, some of us have a greater experience to pull insight from, what some people might see as normal might be the limits of their experience.
Where as it was not free aim to me, someone who plays game with free aim.