Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
The “turns into missile”, or “object now moving very fast in air” seems to be the part you forget. Which is why we aim in the first place.
I aim a grenade launcher at the sky because a grenade loses acceleration fairly quickly and then falls to the ground. It becomes a missile with a fixed trajectory.
That doesn’t ever mean it’s a straight line, it’s an arc.
The same thing is true for snipers, there is an entire mathematical equation to learn during sniper school, they don’t aim in a straight line at their target.
If player A's character has a dexterity of 400 and terrible twitch skills, and player B's character has 50 dexterity and awesome twitch skills. Player A will beat Player B 10/10 times because their character has greater skill using a bow.
Now, normalizing stats, the winner is going to be determined by the player that uses the better sequence of their character's abilities given the environment. If you're stuck on aim, there are better genres for that type of skill.
i am with my mouse (or the reticle if there is smartcast, for example) to the ground, then rain of fire showers the area and anything inside. I still had to aim. the game doesn't read my mind.
For me personally, no.
See, I'm a 'fool', who takes Option #2, particularly in games where I know the developers are considering balance changes.
But it depends on the game and where exactly in the process of the game the 'choice to not use the Option' is.
And that's why it's relevant to Ashes somewhat. But obviously I play far far too many of these types of games with too many different situations, so my original oversimplification isn't really as applicable to me.
In the context of this discussion, if Cleric heavy CC is Tab Targetable, I will choose not to use it. Victory is less important to me than everyone involved in it 'enjoying the game'. So, similarly, if the restrictive chains ability Cleric has, roots people, and is quite large, there are certain situations where I would not like to hear 'It's ok, it's a skillshot, like we said' from Intrepid, and I might not take it, and consign myself to being a losing fool as a result.
And if we don't have that ability in the game, then there's literally no "skillshots" in Ashes at all. And if your current feedback is "add skillshots to the game" then we agree on that point (though I'm on the side of "let me block shots").
And if it's not about being able to block that then functionally they are the same thing. Ground decal just have a wider conal aoe than an arrow. If anything, it's harder to hit a delayed attack (even if it's an aoe) that a quick-flying arrow (let alone fast magic projectile).
And another thing I'm curious about. Can shotguns have skillshots? Cause shotguns are conal aoes, effectively. And if they can't, then what's the cut-off limit on the conal degrees for it to constitute as a "skillshot" in your opinion?
As for the grenade launcher thing. The gun itself was aimed at the sky, but you were targeting smth on the ground, right? You calculated a timing for the attack (unless target was completely stationary) and then chose the appropriate angle of the attack to hit as close to the target as possible.
With a delayed ground decal attack you'll need to calculate the timing, choose the correct placement of the decal and the character will do the "aiming", just as the launcher was aimed at the sky and not you. Both are tools that you use to hit a target.
Would you start calling this ability a skillshot if the animation simply changed to a "character throws out a projectile"? So the effect, the mechanic, the delay, the everything else is literally the same - but the animation simply has a projectile in it.
Now that effect on the ground travels too, with the ping speed.
They could add a virtual line from the player to the ground when the cast is done and also add an animation to show the travel direction (unless is instacast) but that would interfere visually for no good reason (unless the effect travels through the ground, on it's surface)
Now I wonder if the force carrier is a pet... what it is?
I know a minecraft youtuber who is "cooking" iron and stone in the furnace. So annoying
If ability was shown in action targeting mode and the aoe would be smaller, it would clear even for op that it is indeed a skillshot.
An entire thread to discuss a definition, what joy.
Aye. It’s about it not being a missile or an object in 3d space. If it’s a skillshot, you can block it, dodge it, or it can get hung up in the environment.
You guys dont realize it, but some us bring it up every week in the discord. If it’s an aimed ability then it’s blockable and should be subject to collision detection - it’s not. We are coming in on A2 and ranger is looking very tab.
Depends on the game, I’ve seen Shotguns coded in many different ways. Mostly cones, rays, but Apex codes them with an actual spread to where some of the shot hits and misses per round so you get different numbers each time you press LMB, unless all of the round hits then you get full damage.
The launcher was aimed at the sky so the grenades trajectory lands within near proximity of the target. But the point of it is that it’s still a missile and those can still be obstructed.
I don’t care that Divine Flare is a GTAoE, that’s fine. I don’t care that it’s a decal that is placed on the ground.
But you can’t block nor dodge it, it is not subject to collision detection. When those things can happen then calling it a skillshot won’t be misleading.
Communicative Accuracy.
also devs should look at games like moba/'s like league of legenda and all that moba are kinda like the only hybrid combat games atm with a mix of skill shots and target locked attacks. There alot that can be learned from combat skills and combo and thing that can be gained looking outside of the MMO genre for hybrid combat
you can make a tab targetted skill blockable and dodgeable. that has nothing to do with whether the skill is a skillshot or not or wether you have to aim it or not. that has to do with how you decide to program the skill.
also, you are confused with what is collision detection. literally every skill has it (except instant self skills)
But you can’t block nor dodge it, it is not subject to collision detection. When those things can happen then calling it a skillshot won’t be misleading.
But you can knockback somone out of it before it goes off :P which if forcing somone to dodge it.
Tbh look towards moba if you want hybrid combat they have a mix between lock on (Tab target) and skillshot/telegraphed ability that can be dodge/miss and all that good shit.
Divine Flare is just a GTAoE.
GTAoEs aren’t missiles, they aren’t subject to missile detection like other abilities are.
GTAoEs are not skillshots.
Negative, you do not aim Divine Flare. You place it, it has zero trajectory.
The little decal isn’t a reticle, a reticle is a fixed point.
It all comes down to the fact that you are just trying to gatekeep what a skillshot is for some reason...maybe if you get to the root of why you are trying to gatekeep it, you will figure out that it is a skillshot. Perhaps it just isn't as difficult as you expected it to be?
hahahahah..hahahahahahahhahahahahahha
how do you think the game knows someone is inside the aoe then?
GTAoE is still dodgeable though, because it has a delayed effect, so it still requires some skill to properly land it. But yes, I would prefer if these things could be blocked.
Your communicative accuracy gets lost in the semantics of "what is a shot". Others don't really care about what you call a thing. They care what that thing does and what can be done about it.
It’s gotta be a missile to fit in with missile/spell collision first.
GTAoEs are avoidable, we have no idea if we can over a GTAoE.
Shot implies a trajectory, most people don’t know what any of that means.
Just like most people won’t take the time to learn how developers code things in 3d space. They don’t care to know, but some of us do, we want this hybrid combat.
I mean there's like 170 Champs, I think LoL does a great job of incorporating mechanics that require skill with more then just skill shots. Whether its through combos or timing, or straight up skill shots. They even have global(map wide) skill shots that are purely aimed.
A favorite champ of mine, Senna has a skill while not an aimed shot heals anyone between you and your target, have to line up champs whenever you can to get full benefit.
Galio has a skill that takes a couple seconds but provides another champ with a big shield and damage reduction and then Galio comes crashing down and knocks everyone up. Really hope to see this in AOC, maybe a knock back instead of knock up. I think the skill right now that only has you Dive at the champ is silly with out some sort of extra purpose.
Akali has a skill mechanic, puts down a cloud and can go invis when she enters it, she can come out to do damage and re-enter. Also skill shot in that she throws a Shuriken in a straight line, if it hits she can teleport to the target. Plus she has a dash skill so super mobile. Very strong champ is played well.
Shaco is favorite of others, He disapears and replaces himself with an illusion that if killed basically does a bunch of damage, he can teleport and again is very elusive if played well. The skill is timing of your skills and fooling players to attack your clone.(GW2 actually gets close to this)
Basically my point is there are tons of skill shots and skill based mechanics in LoL that other games, especially with PVP should include or try variations of.
Only time I like healing is when its sort of a reactionary style too. I prefer extremely limited cast times when healing. There's alot of skills I want to see that are in LoL that I would love to see in AOC though that would make me choose a healer if done right.
Can you aim at the ground?
Show; don’t tell.
I'd say that's a bridge too far. Bad aoe placement is just as costly as bad aim.
I think we are really overthinking this to be honest.
But that's not what I said.
People seem to jump to being told they're unskilled, rather than Divine Flare not requiring aiming.
Placing is aiming
But it's not though.