Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision. 2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something. Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe. aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything. aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not.
Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them...
Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision. 2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something. Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe. aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything. aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting. There is spell and missile collision in Ashes of Creation, meaning you can stand in front of a missile or object moving in 3d space and block it, obstruct it, etc. You're factually incorrect, aiming has everything to do with the trajectory of a projectile. The only exception to this is a guided missile system. That translates to target systems like tab and ground targets.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision. 2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something. Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe. aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything. aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting. There is spell and missile collision in Ashes of Creation, meaning you can stand in front of a missile or object moving in 3d space and block it, obstruct it, etc. You're factually incorrect, aiming has everything to do with the trajectory of a projectile. The only exception to this is a guided missile system. That translates to target systems like tab and ground targets. how do you aim a camera then? where is the projectile?
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision. 2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something. Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe. aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything. aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting. There is spell and missile collision in Ashes of Creation, meaning you can stand in front of a missile or object moving in 3d space and block it, obstruct it, etc. You're factually incorrect, aiming has everything to do with the trajectory of a projectile. The only exception to this is a guided missile system. That translates to target systems like tab and ground targets. how do you aim a camera then? where is the projectile? And technically, you don't aim a camera you orient the camera lense in the direction of where you want to record light being refracted off an object.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » maybe the ground aoes arent skill shots, but you still have to aim them... They would be aimed if they had a trajectory from a reticle. Alas, they are not. how do you place them on the ground? you either put the reticle where you want the aoe, then press the skill button, or you press the button then you aim moving your mouse and click... the game doesnt read your mind the game is built a certain way in 3d space, a skill shot is something like Fuse's knucklecluster or ultimate from Apex. They're both AoEs, but they're aimed and subject to collision. 2d or 3d doesnt matter. also collision is irrelevant because all skills have it...unless by collision you mean someone standing in the way and blocking it or something. Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. like i said, you can aim with your reticle, then press the skill button and the skill can be casted without any mouse clicks to place it on the ground. or you can press the skill, then aim with your mouse where you want to place the aoe. aiming has nothing to do with the trajectory of a projectile. for example, you can aim a camera at someone or at something. you can aim a lens. you can aim a telescope. you arent shooting anything. aiming is what you do before shooting. you might aim and dont shoot. aiming is closer to pointing than it is to shooting. There is spell and missile collision in Ashes of Creation, meaning you can stand in front of a missile or object moving in 3d space and block it, obstruct it, etc. You're factually incorrect, aiming has everything to do with the trajectory of a projectile. The only exception to this is a guided missile system. That translates to target systems like tab and ground targets. how do you aim a camera then? where is the projectile? And technically, you don't aim a camera you orient the camera lense in the direction of where you want to record light being refracted off an object. aka aiming xD you can say that ground aoes dont have a trajectory and that they arent skill shots, but you still have to aim o.o
Depraved wrote: » i give up
Solvryn wrote: » _I_ wrote: » Well you keep saying that aiming and placing are different...but you have to AIM your reticle to PLACE the AoE. So...you are doing both. Which would, in your own words, be a skillshot. Since you are aiming. Hope this clears things up for you! Negative, you do not aim Divine Flare. You place it, it has zero trajectory. The little decal isn’t a reticle, a reticle is a fixed point.
_I_ wrote: » Well you keep saying that aiming and placing are different...but you have to AIM your reticle to PLACE the AoE. So...you are doing both. Which would, in your own words, be a skillshot. Since you are aiming. Hope this clears things up for you!
Veeshan wrote: » Depraved wrote: » i give up the funny thing is they could just make it shoot a fast projectile or a instant ray from crosshair that spawns the ground circle/aoe instead of "placing" it via cursor tbh Funny thing is people being it not a skill shot cause u dont aim it with a crosshair type thing but a cross hair is aimed by the mouse sooooo is it not the same you just get a slightly different camera angle.
Sengarden wrote: » I understand the desire to divide these skills based on their mechanical function more thoroughly so that when people ask for more or less of something, Intrepid knows what they're talking about, or that when Intrepid says, "We're actively working on adding more x, y, z type skills into the game," then we know what they're actually working on.Placed abilities are also somewhat skill based, because they require the player to figure out the best area to place them on and when to place them. However, you're not aiming at anything specifically when you place the ability. Aiming requires the potential to miss your target and have zero effect. You can't miss the ground. You might say, "Well, I'm aiming at the feet of Jon Smith over there, and he might move out of the way," but placed abilities aren't about hitting an active target. You were never aiming at the feet of Jon Smith, you were placing the AoE on the ground underneath the feet of Jon Smith, exactly where the ground decal said it would be, and the ability landed exactly where you wanted it to and did everything the ability does. Whether or not Jon Smith rolled out of the decal before the ability went off is irrelevant to the fact that you placed a huge decal on the ground and the ability worked exactly as intended whether or not it had the effect you were hoping for.
234Graph wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » _I_ wrote: » Well you keep saying that aiming and placing are different...but you have to AIM your reticle to PLACE the AoE. So...you are doing both. Which would, in your own words, be a skillshot. Since you are aiming. Hope this clears things up for you! Negative, you do not aim Divine Flare. You place it, it has zero trajectory. The little decal isn’t a reticle, a reticle is a fixed point. I dont know how it's so hard for some of these people to get this. Aiming entails directing your skill towards a target in motion or from a far, a skill which can be blocked or dodge. Placing an Aoe on the ground in hopes of a target moving towards that section of the ground is totally different thing. That Divine skill ain't a skillshot and will genuinely confuse ppl
Sengarden wrote: » Here's the problem - you can't have a tab-action hybrid game and still include true aimed skillshots, because if someone chooses to play in tab only, they'll never get to use those reticle based abilities, or will outright denounce the game for forcing them to use them after saying for years that you'll have the option between the two. There are a huge number of people following this game who won't play if aimed skillshots become a requirement for peak combat effectiveness, and it's fairly clear that this point that aimed skillshots aren't the direction that the team is heading in. If you haven't watched the basic ranged attacks showcase they put out last year, go take a look. It's basically GW2 style ranged combat with soft-tab selection, hitboxes aren't even really a part of it. Something tells me they won't be shifting away from that.
Sengarden wrote: » You were never aiming at the feet of Jon Smith, you were placing the AoE on the ground underneath the feet of Jon Smith, exactly where the ground decal said it would be, and the ability landed exactly where you wanted it to and did everything the ability does. Whether or not Jon Smith rolled out of the decal before the ability went off is irrelevant to the fact that you placed a huge decal on the ground and the ability worked exactly as intended whether or not it had the effect you were hoping for.
Solvryn wrote: » The words matter.
NiKr wrote: » Sengarden wrote: » You were never aiming at the feet of Jon Smith, you were placing the AoE on the ground underneath the feet of Jon Smith, exactly where the ground decal said it would be, and the ability landed exactly where you wanted it to and did everything the ability does. Whether or not Jon Smith rolled out of the decal before the ability went off is irrelevant to the fact that you placed a huge decal on the ground and the ability worked exactly as intended whether or not it had the effect you were hoping for. One question for you. When you're leading a target in an fps: do you aim at the air in front of the target's direction of running or do you aim at the target itself? Solvryn wrote: » The words matter. Is there a universally accepted definition for "hybrid combat" in mmos? Cause "it's a shooter" doesn't quite seem like the accepted definition. Everyone seems to call BDO an "action-combat mmo", yet afaik it has soft lock for archers and majority of skills are aoe. So it seems that "action combat" usually means "you can use a skill w/o having a tab target" and not "you shoot a projectile for every single skill".
NiKr wrote: » One question for you. When you're leading a target in an fps: do you aim at the air in front of the target's direction of running or do you aim at the target itself?
Solvryn wrote: » Conquerors Blade, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Valheim doesn’t have soft lock and has complete free-aim.
Sengarden wrote: » And yes, aiming at a particular spot on the ground is still technically aiming, but what if your bow had a magic light that beamed an absolute perfect map onto the ground of where your arrow will land? You can see it perfectly without even staring down the sightline of the arrow. You could completely detach your eyes from what's happening and just line up the marker on the ground exactly where you want it, and boom, it's there. Oh, and the person you were aiming at? Yeah, if they're anywhere within a 2m radius of the arrow, you still landed it. Now tell me there's not a difference there.
NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Conquerors Blade, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, Valheim doesn’t have soft lock and has complete free-aim. And iirc Steven said in the range showcase that there is free aim and that your arrow can hit a target that you weren't aiming at, if it runs into the arrow before the point of impact. And melee showcase was pretty much all action iirc. Also, how popular are those games? Especially the first 3. Yes, Valheim has free-aim, but it's also not an mmo and its multiplayer is 10 people at most (or at least a quick google says so). What I'm trying to say is this. Majority of mmo players don't want to play a shooter in their fantasy mmos. They have mmo shooters and normal multiplayer shooters for that. Sengarden wrote: » And yes, aiming at a particular spot on the ground is still technically aiming, but what if your bow had a magic light that beamed an absolute perfect map onto the ground of where your arrow will land? You can see it perfectly without even staring down the sightline of the arrow. You could completely detach your eyes from what's happening and just line up the marker on the ground exactly where you want it, and boom, it's there. Oh, and the person you were aiming at? Yeah, if they're anywhere within a 2m radius of the arrow, you still landed it. Now tell me there's not a difference there. Yet we have the example of a grenade launcher which also has a big aoe at the impact. It still requires skill to hit a moving target with it, but it might be a bit less skill than hitting it with an arrow (though it's mainly just different skills overall). My point is that it's silly to limit the term "skillshot" to only the things that shoot projectiles and instead just keep it to things that require skill. And delayed-effect abilities require skill to land, so imo they fit the definition of a skillshot.
