Solvryn wrote: » It's really strange to call skillshot something based off of emotions rather than based on the word itself. Shot implies a projectile, why be so abject?
Solvryn wrote: » Why are we comparing the difficulty of an arrow and grenade launcher? Why? What does that have to do with aiming and targeting? Projectile vs non projectile?
Solvryn wrote: » Do a majority of players also scramble to the forums to discuss skill difficulty? That seems like it would be a thing someone would do if they're afraid of being either outskilled or left behind. Its crazy to think that in this whole thread, while we were discussing something related to science and math, some were relating it to difficulty level. Why be worried about this?
Solvryn wrote: » I don't give a shit of how popular a game is. Doesn't stop me from finding out if its good or not, people who have only played the popular games have that narrow experience gap to choose another game from, where as people who greater experience probably have a better understanding of the genre.
Solvryn wrote: » Now theres an issue, what Steven said and what actually happened on the screen is not the same. You can go back and look at it. Now remember, some of us have a greater experience to pull insight from, what some people might see as normal might be the limits of their experience. Where as it was not free aim to me, someone who plays game with free aim.
NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's really strange to call skillshot something based off of emotions rather than based on the word itself. Shot implies a projectile, why be so abject? I already posted discussions from other communities about this point. "Skillshot" is a general term at this point, because language has a tendency to evolve and change. Solvryn wrote: » Why are we comparing the difficulty of an arrow and grenade launcher? Why? What does that have to do with aiming and targeting? Projectile vs non projectile? The person I was quoting tried to compare the difficulty of hitting someone with an arrow and hitting someone with an aoe. Which is why I referenced the launcher. Both actions are "shots", both require skill. But one is a huge damn aoe that damages people in a radius, while arrow is a point. Solvryn wrote: » Do a majority of players also scramble to the forums to discuss skill difficulty? That seems like it would be a thing someone would do if they're afraid of being either outskilled or left behind. Its crazy to think that in this whole thread, while we were discussing something related to science and math, some were relating it to difficulty level. Why be worried about this? You know why they were doing it? Because you chose to completely ignore the other part of the word you had the issue with. "Skillshot" has two parts to it. And seemingly quite a few people don't care about how the "shot" is done, but they definitely care about the lvl of "skill" that's required to constitute an action as a "skillshot". Solvryn wrote: » I don't give a shit of how popular a game is. Doesn't stop me from finding out if its good or not, people who have only played the popular games have that narrow experience gap to choose another game from, where as people who greater experience probably have a better understanding of the genre. And I've played Valheim and am now playing Palia (also has free-aim bows). I can lead a target just fine and manage to kill several moving (in different direction) targets within seconds. That doesn't prevent me from acknowledging that hitting someone with a delayed-effect aoe still requires skill and could potentially require even more skill than hitting someone with a super fast arrow/projectile. Solvryn wrote: » Now theres an issue, what Steven said and what actually happened on the screen is not the same. You can go back and look at it. Now remember, some of us have a greater experience to pull insight from, what some people might see as normal might be the limits of their experience. Where as it was not free aim to me, someone who plays game with free aim. Is this not "action" to you?https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8kioFy97k3florueRIumuB6d4mrE9s5X?si=w3svwowMwm8VJPt6 Yes, they didn't show off arrow drop physics (if there will be any), but the game is in alpha so obviously not everything will be showable.
Solvryn wrote: » No, it’s a small piece. There is a lot more to action than that. There’s no measure of precision in that video at all, every attack hit when with the reticle being off the target. If it was action there would be a lot more dexterity required. Less targeting, more aiming.
NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » No, it’s a small piece. There is a lot more to action than that. There’s no measure of precision in that video at all, every attack hit when with the reticle being off the target. If it was action there would be a lot more dexterity required. Less targeting, more aiming. You seem to love precise wording so much, but you keep equating "action" and "shooting a projectile". They are not the same thing. Or are you about to say that melee combat has 0 action abilities and can never be called "action combat"?
Solvryn wrote: » Now you have some juxtaposition.
NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Now you have some juxtaposition. I have no damn clue what all of these videos were supposed to show me in the context of my comment. Or what they're supposed to mean in general. Yes, I know bows shoot projectiles. Awesome. Out of all of those videos the only semi-good one is the first one, but even that has the MC of the video just shooting into a crowd or in general direction of fairly slowly moving dudes. There were a few moments where he lead a target and got them, and if I'm not blind that game has a "skill effect applies at the end of the animation" design, which is why sometimes it felt as if he was aiming only at the very last second of the shot. But yes, that's a nice archery video. Every other video is of someone shooting big targets, that, in Darkfall's case, either have a ton of ping or a HUGE margin of error (read hitbox) on them (hit at 2:10 is hilarious). And Apoc video barely has any archery in it, on top of Intrepid saying "apoc existed for us to test Action combat backend and we realized that mmo wouldn't be able to support it well enough". But again, how is "shooting a projectile" pertains to me asking "do you consider melee to be action combat"?
Raven016 wrote: » I never noticed the word skillshot until this thread. Maybe I did but there was no debate to make me think on it. Now that this thread started, I considered it a composed word, something which is a shot and has a skill associated with it. It could be the character skill too, if it leads to head shot critical hits decided by the game. I prefer staying close to commonly used terminology. I would also prefer "tank" to not be a class name in AoC and Steven to stop using the word PvX because it's confuses me. First I thought he wants to attract both PvP and PvE players, now I think he actually wants to drive them away. As a debate is interesting to see how you can morph commonly accepted terms to cover other things better described by other words. Humans (probably animals too) want to be as clear as possible when they transmit a message. Not Steven.
Solvryn wrote: » I pulled some videos off of YouTube to for you to have juxtaposition.
Solvryn wrote: » I’ll call a spade a spade, when a game is tab, I call it tab. When a game is tab enhanced I’ll call it tab enhanced. When a game is truly hybrid I’ll call it hybrid.
NiKr wrote: » And the only juxtaposition between those videos and AoC's ranger showcase is that the "hitbox" in AoC is a bit wider. Though that Darkfall moment that I pointed out was reaaaal fucking close to AoC's soft-lock limit (though again, I do think it was just ping).
Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface.
iccer wrote: » arguing about definitions for 5 pages.
NiKr wrote: » iccer wrote: » arguing about definitions for 5 pages.
iccer wrote: » Dygz wrote: » I think you point a mouse? You don’t aim a mouse. You aim a reticle. Typically telegraph AoEs do not use a reticle. A telegraph AoE is similar to a rug. You place rug on the ground or on a wall. If you’re moving something (large) like that across a surface, you are placing it. If you’re aiming a rug, that means you plan to toss or shoot it through the air. Aim is typically for targeting something that’s going to travel a trajectory through the air, rather than for placing something across a surface. Well explained. With that in mind, I couldn't care less about having to aim abilities in a MMORPG game. I'm fine with having some skillshots, that I have to aim (2-3 in my whole kit of 15-20 abilities), and I'm fine with having to place certain abilities. However, I couldn't care less about having to constantly aim my basic attacks and abilities. If I wanted that sort of gameplay experience, I'd just play games that aren't MMORPGs. Now when it comes to hybrid style of combat, what you're really getting is tab-target at its core, that allows you to aim and place certain abilities. You could aim more stuff in the "action" camera, like the basic attacks and some abilities (because you could just freely aim and freely use the ability, without having to actually target something). If you expect to have to aim in 3D, where the vertical plain especially matters (the difference of aiming close to targets feet, or head), then I'm sorry, this is just the wrong genre for that. There's always going to be a lock system, where if you aim close enough, you'll hit the target, and that's how it should be. Now whether they have used the word skillshot wrong, I couldn't care less. I know the OP probably thinks it implies they don't know what they're talking about, and fears that we won't get many actual skillshots (the aimed abilities in this case). I think it would be much more helpful and productive if everyone just said what they wanted to say, and get to the main point, rather than dancing around it, arguing semantics, and arguing about definitions for 5 pages.
Fantmx wrote: » Skillcast
Dizz wrote: » I prefer what I saw in AoC ranger update video than other games like Conq Blade, Darkfall. I feel Intrepid did a great job on ranger and tab/action mode in that ranger update. Personally don't like I need aiming like FPS/TPS in a mmorpg. If I want that kind of skill celling and gameplay I will just play that knid of games such as Apex or Splatoon instead of playing mmorpgs.
Solvryn wrote: » And with that said, that's what actually is with some of the posters here, right? Not wanting to call tab enhanced, tab enhanced because they don't want action combat. and I have no problem treating them exactly how I see them for it. It's a lot easier to respect the people who outwardly say they don't want a hybrid and want pure tab then people who try to hide their intentions.
