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Risk for attacking Caravans:

Being marked as a "Bandit" and appear on bounty hunter maps (or maybe the map in general) for which the player will reward [insert some kind of reward here].

How's that?
"Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
l4nvaryf9xpf.png
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Comments

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack
  • Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    How are they screwed? What does an attacker lose other than time?
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • Attackers need no risk in this case.
    There will be fast caravans for solo players with high chance to escape.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'd be somewhat ok with that if it applied to successful bandits. We'll supposedly have a progression system for defense/attack of caravans, so BHs should be alerted about currently active caravan attacks if they're perpetrated by bandits that have reached a certain stage in that system.

    In other words, an infamy system that boosts the difficulty of caravan attacks. This would obviously have to be balanced out against any potential abuses of forced failures that bring you down on that progression path (if we can even go down).
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    How are they screwed? What does an attacker lose other than time?

    you asked that in the other thread and gave you some examples xd
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Attackers need no risk in this case.
    There will be fast caravans for solo players with high chance to escape.
    Highly highly doubt this will be the case. Otherwise they'll be OP as fuck and used by all guilds/groups to multiply their money.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Attackers need no risk in this case.
    There will be fast caravans for solo players with high chance to escape.
    Highly highly doubt this will be the case. Otherwise they'll be OP as fuck and used by all guilds/groups to multiply their money.

    You already doubted before :smile:
    NiKr wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood :smile:
    I agree those are good quotes against what I'm saying. We'll have to see which one of those survive the testing, where literally everyone simply takes the fastest caravans and outruns any attackers, while multiplying their income by dozenfold, because they can now go from southernmost point on the map to the northernmost point.

    It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.

    And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.

    This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system :D

    The price when you carry commodities from a node to the next will change. The profit will be smaller and smaller as players fill the destination node with those specific commodities.
  • Depraved wrote: »
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    How are they screwed? What does an attacker lose other than time?

    you asked that in the other thread and gave you some examples xd

    Ill be on the look out for every reply, so sorry king
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    The price when you carry commodities from a node to the next will change. The profit will be smaller and smaller as players fill the destination node with those specific commodities.
    But if you're free to do whatever, cause your caravan is invulnerable - you don't care about destinations. This is mainly why I doubt any given caravan will ever come close to being untouchable. It would simply break the system.
  • Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    I think they'll have incentives. Some progression which will help them be better at their activity.
    Possibly the caravan defenders will have a progression too.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    The price when you carry commodities from a node to the next will change. The profit will be smaller and smaller as players fill the destination node with those specific commodities.
    But if you're free to do whatever, cause your caravan is invulnerable - you don't care about destinations. This is mainly why I doubt any given caravan will ever come close to being untouchable. It would simply break the system.

    There will be choke points. And zergs defending them with powerful AoEs :smile:
    Crossing rivers will also take time.
    It might worth doing a few runs with a fast caravan in the metro nation area where your own citizens are active, but only if you notice a bigger price difference. Or if you want to create a stash if the node falls later, to sell the commodities at higher price.
    But probably other activities will be more profitable: the bigger slower caravans might carry other stuff too, not only commodities.
    Could be that the fast caravans will be worth for low level players and role playing.
  • DimitraeosDimitraeos Member
    edited December 2023
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    I think they'll have incentives. Some progression which will help them be better at their activity.
    Possibly the caravan defenders will have a progression too.

    Defenders risk: Losing god knows how many days/weeks worth of gold, material and time
    Defenders reward: gaining some or a lot of gold

    Attackers risk: losing a little bit of time (and they can keep attacking with no further risk)
    Attackers reward: a bunch of pillaged goods for some or a lot of gold

    I dont really see how this is balanced without some additonal risks for Attackers. Its the definition of unbalanced (in its current iteration), but im sure Intrepid is already thinking about this.
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Attackers risk: losing a little bit of time (and they can keep attacking with no further risk)
    There's also, allegedly, gear decay, so if you keep dying over and over - your gear will be fucked. And obviously if you take shitty gear into the fight - you might not win at all.

    Though I definitely agree that it's a pretty shitty deterrent, if it even can be considered one.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    How are they screwed? What does an attacker lose other than time?

    you asked that in the other thread and gave you some examples xd

    Ill be on the look out for every reply, so sorry king

    slaaayyy
  • Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    I think they'll have incentives. Some progression which will help them be better at their activity.
    Possibly the caravan defenders will have a progression too.

    Defenders risk: Losing god knows how many days/weeks worth of gold, material and time
    Defenders reward: gaining some or a lot of gold

    Attackers risk: losing a little bit of time (and they can keep attacking with no further risk)
    Attackers reward: a bunch of pillaged goods for some or a lot of gold

    I dont really see how this is balanced without some additonal risks for Attackers. Its the definition of unbalanced (in its current iteration), but im sure Intrepid is already thinking about this.

    There must be gold sink. Gold must be lost somewhere. And this is the proper place rather than sooner while gathering, where the corruption protects a little bit.
    AoC is a PvP game.
    Players will go and attack the caravans of competing metro nations. Eventually they might become enemy of the state and everyone will be able to attack them. But this information was not confirmed recently. We have to ask during the next caravan stream.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Reputation
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why fk up attackers more. they are already quite screwed. if anything, they need more incentives to attack

    I think they'll have incentives. Some progression which will help them be better at their activity.
    Possibly the caravan defenders will have a progression too.

    they both get or lose progression
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Dimitraeos wrote: »
    Attackers risk: losing a little bit of time (and they can keep attacking with no further risk)
    There's also, allegedly, gear decay, so if you keep dying over and over - your gear will be fucked. And obviously if you take shitty gear into the fight - you might not win at all.

    Though I definitely agree that it's a pretty shitty deterrent, if it even can be considered one.

    Yeah we will have to see exactly how that gear decay works, but I think a risk involved directly with the action being committed is what im trying to get at with this. Doing "bandit" shit should have risks involved with being a bandit. Not Corruption in this case, for gameplay purposes, is that would be to harsh, but something somewhat even with the risk of the other party.
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
  • Everyone posting at the same time :)
  • Depraved wrote: »

    Okay I just saw your reply there. Fair enough. I actually wasn't aware that there was actually a "progression" system. Depending how much this stalls your progress, we will see if its enough of a counterweight to the risk involved in losing many day/weeks worth of material and gold that Defenders could potentially be risking.
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    also attackers dont really get rewarded...they still have to do their own caravan run to get any rewards
  • Depraved wrote: »
    also attackers dont really get rewarded...they still have to do their own caravan run to get any rewards

    to carry back the pillaged goods they stole? That doesnt just exist in player inventory?
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    they have to run their caravan to make any profit, plus they wont b able to loot everything
  • Depraved wrote: »
    they have to run their caravan to make any profit, plus they wont b able to loot everything

    Fair points, I actually completely forgot about these details, been a while since I brushed up on the wiki.
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
    l4nvaryf9xpf.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    oh i forgot. also the defenders can launch multiple empty caravans as decoy, so less risk for them. less risk and only profit xdd
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    why tho? this caravan system worked great in silkroad and even archeage had a similar system with no "penalties" for attackers, not needed, I'd recommend getting familiar with how other games did it before making suggestions on something without knowing how it plays out,

    people should be encouraged to attack, not have penalties or get flagged, the risk is in the defenders because they will be getting the big rewards as shown on the caravan stream 8 times the profit for a 15 minute trip, thats an insane reward already should have a high risk

    attackers won't even get 1/3 of that loot with restrictions in place like having to caravan back the loot, cost of gear degradation, time invested, and if they are successful theres also reputation on the line which is a big thing in these games,

    if anything I say give more incentives to attackers lol and this is coming from someone that has absolutely no plans on going bandit as I will be busy running and protecting my own caravans :)
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited December 2023
    Don't over punish attackers, force them to stay in purple for a period of time if they opted to be attackers, if they like PvP make them to stay in PvP instead of just letting them bottom feed on weaker targets

    Arya ideas, best ideas


    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited December 2023
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Don't over punish attackers, force them to stay in purple for a period of time if they opted to be attackers, if they like PvP make them to stay in PvP instead of just letting them bottom feed on weaker targets

    Arya ideas, best ideas
    Steven likes your idea.

    These events will flag participating players as Combatants (purple) and players will remain flagged for a period of time after leaving that battleground.[6][8][9] Corrupted (red) players will remain red during PvP events.[10]
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited December 2023
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Don't over punish attackers, force them to stay in purple for a period of time if they opted to be attackers, if they like PvP make them to stay in PvP instead of just letting them bottom feed on weaker targets

    Arya ideas, best ideas
    Steven likes your idea.

    These events will flag participating players as Combatants (purple) and players will remain flagged for a period of time after leaving that battleground.[6][8][9] Corrupted (red) players will remain red during PvP events.[10]

    Oh! Nice, not the first time Steven and me see eye to eye on some matters it appears
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • ThokanThokan Member, Alpha Two
    Ya'll are completely ignoring the social aspect of the game, which is a great part of the risk versus reward design in a PvP game with politics.

    Since the risk is high for the caravan runner, the social aspect incentivizes them to be good neighbours.

    Since the risk is high for the caravan runner, attacking a caravan is antagonizing and will ensure you are put on everybody defending's List.

    The Mayor of a node can, supposedly, designate individuals Enemy of the Node. Any guild can War Declare and KOS. That is the true, and high, risk of raiding caravans.

    A caravan runner may lose X minutes of gathering. A caravan attacker risk getting spawncamped for the rest of the game experience. Isnt that enough?
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