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[Feedback Request] Alpha Two Ranger Archetype Update Shown in December Livestream
Hello glorious community,
We’d like your feedback on the Alpha Two Ranger Archetype Update shown during the December 2023 Development Update Livestream.
To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, January 19, 2024, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!
Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!
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🙌 #ICYMI, we revealed some new abilities for our Alpha Two Ranger archetype!
https://youtu.be/L5DeC8wIcuM
We’d like your feedback on the Alpha Two Ranger Archetype Update shown during the December 2023 Development Update Livestream.
To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
- How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
- What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
- Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
- Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, January 19, 2024, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!
Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!
---
🙌 #ICYMI, we revealed some new abilities for our Alpha Two Ranger archetype!
https://youtu.be/L5DeC8wIcuM
11
Comments
I wanted to thank you for the recent stream showcasing the development of the ranger character in the game. As a future player of this class, I was truly excited about what you have achieved. I really appreciate the direction in which this profession is evolving, and I'm confident it will be an amazing adventure for all rangers enthusiasts.
However, I would like to express some concerns about a few skills that were presented. I noticed that some of them give the impression that arrows are flying from the bow at a machine gun-like speed. Unfortunately, this detracted significantly from the immersion for me and made me feel a bit more like I was in the world of Cyberpunk 2077 rather than the fantastical realm I hoped to immerse myself in during gameplay.
I hope you understand my concerns and consider this aspect carefully. I know you care about the quality and player experience, so I would like to request a greater focus on immersion in the context of the ranger's skills. Less "machine gun" and more mystique, if possible.
However, I want to emphasize that overall, I really enjoyed the stream, and I am pleased with the progress you are making with the game. You are an incredible team, and your passion for game development is truly infectious. I can't wait to dive into the world you are creating.
Thank you once again, and best of luck with your ongoing work!
I'm honestly blown away by the animations, the particle effects are beautiful and varied.. I especially like the decals that only casters can see, like the tracing sigils on the ground or that seem to close in and connect when a ranger is holding to cast the green spread shot...
HOLY SMOKES at the bit where rangers strike arrows on the ground to ignite them with magic - tip-toppiest tier of archer animations.
I love the mechanics that allow you to instantly release a spread or hold for a focused-fire skill shot, really
REALLY cool, can't wait to see more like it for other archetypes/classes.
I'm excited by the "rock, paper, scissors" approach to class balance. It's not ALWAYS fun but I think it's really important to be wary of certain solo battles and to be encouraged to team up and socialize. Rangers /should/ have to think carefully about when (if ever) they should risk engaging a tank or rogue on their own... I think it's a lot of fun to have mobility skills that can (sometimes) give them an upper hand if they're being clever and using terrain to outplay an opponent.
I am obsessed with the omnidirectional *option* on disengage, It's so much more beautiful and immersive to be able to appreciate the agility and acrobatics compared to spinning my camera while jumping to execute the maneuver.. sometimes that is fun which is why I think it's so great to have the option...
I was a little worried that the marks + hunts may result in bloated bars and end up just being a macro if that is possible but it seems fun to have to consider synergies and play around them in various situations.
The gem springs were breathtaking, with such stunning and ethereal vibes. new wallpaper for sure.
Before this showcase, I felt confident I was a mage-based character but with the acrobatics shown today, I am thinking it just won't be as much fun to play a wizard as it will be to flip over chasms and traverse verra with true elven agility.
Hoping to see a rogue or ranger mechanic that is sort of a "saving throw" when they fall off of ledges - react quickly to catch the ledge, throw a grappling hook, or stab the wall to stop your descent and mantle back up.. just sayin
A dev that loves archers gets the job of creating them. Hearing this is a confirmation that we will have interesting archetypes and a fair balance when it comes to archetype choice.
I love the Ranger class, i do have some questions about the ranger.
Would the ranger be able to have pets? i woud love too see a ranger class which can run alongside his pet through the world and or in combat fight together.
Some sort of ability to tame pets in the open world and make them their own for example.
It is probably a lot of work but that these pets have their mini talent tree in make them specable in some way or form that suits your playstyle.
For example they have like combo attacks as the current ranger class has very fluid movement when performing certain attacks i think it would look amazing having certain combo attacks with a pet.
If no on the above do you perhaps have another "ranger" class ea Hunter (sort of a Beastmaster) in the works for in AOC? I would love to see something like that in AOC especially how beautiful the world looks and seeing myself run around in it with a Rangers ( or hunters) best friend
I am so excited!
Thanks for any feedback keep up the good work and hopefully we can soon start playing the game!
*edit typos and some more ideas
I like the abilities overall. Obviously there's 0 balance in any and all numbers, so it's hard to judge the abilities on their viability, but I at least like the effects/mechanics.
That backwards just ability is amazing.
The fact that we can seemingly shoot over the heads of targets, due to terrain, is amazing as well, because it proves that we're still in hybrid. Hope we'll see more hybridy abilities in the future, but it's a good direction for now.
Lack of aiming abilities was kinda meh, hopefully its only bcs they didnt show all the skills.
A lot of those abilities seemed to benefit from attack speed on a bow.. how skill are supposed to benfit from a long bow? How picking longbow can be alternative to machine gun? Expecially that range of the short bow seems pretty big. My suggestion is that maybe skill range should be affected by the range of the weapon you are using? So with long bow I can use snipe from longer range
Hunts seem kinda lazy to me.. i mean, 10% crit damage buff.. and thats it? I hope to see more complexity there in the future. As a longbow ranger i would mostly run tiger hunt always active for those big hits. I think hunt should make you much stronger but only give you limited window to be like that. So i can stack, then i active the buff, i turn into burst monster, i burst down someone and then i have to stack it all other again
PS. All lighting needs to be work on currently, recent stream shows like you did some improvements in bouncing light, but roughness seems scuffed. What happened to lumen? Too performance heavy?
Overall Stream Feedback:
Not sure why there was a huge amount of spammers in chat. But it was slightly annoying. The mods removed them quick though, good job!
Tulnar Recipe:
Will there be more full recipes for each race? Really cute touch to show the actual real life ingredients on how to make them
Ranger Showcase:
General Comments:
It's a huge improvement over last year's Ranger update.
That explosiveness, that power, that mobility that was lacking in the last PvP development updates here was the result, it felt so dynamic and fluid, it felt that explosiveness that I would expect from a character that is so rooted in speed and quick reaction movements.
I really congratulate the developers who improved the PvP of the archer and that they have in their mind the way to improve the PvP in AoC.
From this
To this
2.-What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
The different possibilities of combination with other classes/archetypes.
3.-Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
The possibilities of future combat that other classes will have.
In this update it was clearly seen the hand of the developer as he created a real RANGER , as the way of combat development for the RANGER is well on track .
THEN I am curious to know how the combat of the other classes will be, what development path the developers will have chosen for the different classes and archetypes.
Topic that is linked to this question
I've always wondered why a character with a specific role, for example the tank, has to do only the job of his role and stay stuck in that job.
Why in the year 2023 a tank only needs to be a punching bag ? or a mage is obliged to have one of the highest DPS and that his contribution is only that.
It seems to me that something more interesting would be to have cooperative functions/skills that enhance, change, improve the role that one chooses for the help of a partner and that in turn could also help the Hybrid combat system.
Combinations, synergies, compatibilities of archetypes for the hybrid combat system
For example:
-let's imagine that a "keeper" (Summoner + tank) has the possibility of receiving an ability from the spellhunter (mage + hunter), let's say that the spellhunter launches enchanted arrows to the area where the "keeper" is and this uses an ability to make those arrows harden and become barricades to prevent mobs from passing through that area, that kind of synergies would seem extremely interesting , It would be a game changer and would lead to unique plays.
-let's imagine that an "Apostle" ( cleric + tank ) to improve one of his group healing skills has to be hit by the lightning of an Archmage ( mage + mage ) that will cause that healing skill to be launched in the form of healing rays that besides healing raise stats of the party players or damage mobs.
A specific role that also has the potential to do/generate different things thanks to the combination/synergy of skills with another player.
Many possibilities of combinations, synergies, generation of potential plays, differentiations, interesting plays, innovative possibilities, but above all many possibilities to add fun things to the already known roles.
4.- Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Like the AoC ranger , no and I love that ,I want to see more AoC stuff , more AoC style , more boldness from Intrepid.
They are on an excellent way in their thinking of combat and PvP for AoC. Kudos
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Alpha Two Ranger Archetype Update shown during the December Development Update
There is one thing in particular that I would like you to keep in mind.
I would like the ranged characters to have a mobility style similar to the example I will show you to cast some skills or even basic attacks :
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxjAO88KFob9K4FuapP8dQbHs9iMWzjAv4?si=9N7yxbFn9WTnsNyM
I think this gives more dynamism and explosiveness to a skill, of course I'm not saying it's like BDO or anything like that but keep in mind that these lateral movements are very good in some skills or even in basic attacks.
Now, this could be applied to melee characters? maybe, who knows, it would be interesting to think about lateral movements in the form of dashes or dodges and not only frontal movements as melee characters are used to.
The only feedback is that leash range for mobs seems too short.
Remarks:
- the hot-bar should highlight which skills are currently being casted.
- the compass integrated into the minimap could show better where the cardinal points are, to be able to identify fast where the objectives are. Direction needs to be communicated fast over voice chat...
- number of hotbars and their positions should be customizable
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
My friend, not me, was terrified of the giant blue spiders on stream tho and he had to shut off the screen and take a meditative break. Unfortunately, not me, some people have a serious phobia of spiders and a sort of accessibility feature for those of us that are not quite prepared for enlarged insects ESPECIALLY arachnids will be able to handle this otherwise very enjoyable game.
Please add an accessibility feature to replace the spider models for people like my friend, NOT ME.
Thank you!
I really have one thing I have been wanting though. THE HIGH SEAS, I've wanted a new Pirate MMO since Pirates Online and you can barely count that. Looking forward to A2!
First of all, looks amazing. Very hyped. Loved it.
Now, for what I think could be better:
1. A few times, ranger was shooting things directly behind them. I think it looks weird. I think Ranger should have to be facing whatever it is shooting. It should be within the 180 degree front of the ranger.
2. Some spells arc a little too much. Arrows feel/look better when relatively straight. Specifically, the lighting arrow looked more like a spell, not an arrow. IDEA: What if you shoot the arrow onto a magically appearing mirror ontop of the target, and it ricochets down towards the target in lightning form. Overall, just don't like the curvy arrows. Feels like a magic caster, and not a bow+arrow shooter.
That's about it. Those were my only concerns. Looks amazing! Great job!
I like marks as they challenge you to think and observe the opponent to determine which mark would be best to use at which time (hunts and ammo as well). Looking forward seeing this kind of decision making abilities for other classes, with their own class specific twist of course.
Movement looks fun.
The charging aoe shot that changes the cone size as you charge is a great idea and makes the combat feel more involved.
My biggest worries with this mmo has been combat visual effects. I think with ranger we are going to the right direction, it looks more fluid. I would love to see different marks and hunts to have their corresponding colors (e.g. red for tiger, green for raven, blue for bear). I hope you keep improving on the visual effects a lot but it is definitely going into a good direction!
General:
I love how ranger's vault and the jump shot interact with the terrain. Way too many mmos don't have verticality in mind with movement so you can't vault from ledge to ledge for example. I would love to see more of this to make movement more open, fun and having variety of options for escaping and ambushing. Also please do jumping puzzles
Hitboxes look very and too lenient to my eyes considering there is player skill involved by charging and positioning
Overall from last time I've seen any updates, going to a good direction! Looking forward for Alpha 2
The visuals of the skills are awesome, the mobility also seems to be very fluid.
One thing I'm intrigued on is how well the action camera works with the one-target skills, but with the comment of soft-locking by Steven, I think it makes sense.
My only question is with skills like Scattershot, where you need to charge it (or not) and change the AOE. Does an opponent player will be able to see the AOE change as well to be able to try and dodge or block it?
Phenomenal progress, can't wait to try Alpha 2!
Q.) How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
A.) The combat for ranger looks fantastic, incredibly powerful and capable, fully fleshed out and as my instructor would say is "developed and designed professionally".
Q: What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A.) I'm naturally a ranged caster, so I am excited to see them on the battlefield as another ranged dps type. while fighting alongside them AND against them. Steven and Intrepid as a whole has expressed their utmost respect to referencing data when making balancing issues so I have strong faith in their capabilities, as I'll be around for the Alpha 2 playtest (Hopefully as a content creator affiliate).
Q.) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A.) I am concerned, naturally, that the Range archetype will be incredibly powerful from what was shown on the twitch stream, however, as aforementioned, I still retain all faith in Intrepid that they're going to view the data and adjust if necessary. Many changes are naturally expected to happen as 2024 progresses though!
I am also really excited to see how the unique development of some Ranger abilities are also going to be seen across other archetypes such as Mage, Cleric, etc - being able to move while popping off certain abilities, being able to control your characters unique movement during certain ability casts, etc.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I've seen other physical ranged classes such as Hunter, Ranger, etc, but not to this professional level. I think you guys did a fantastic job and I'm excited to see the upcoming streams for Mage, PVP, and the A2
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
- It was lovely, as always. I loved the way you guys presented it and my overall feeling with the stream was overwhelmingly happy!
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
- I play ranger because I love the versatility that comes with the class. I love ranged combat, I love mobility, I love singletarget soft CCs (such as slows) and I love specializing in single-target for PvP purposes. Ranger will definitely be my main, the only question is which sub-archetype I am going for (but I am heavily leaning towards falconeer because.... Birds.)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
Positive list first:
+ THANK YOU FOR ADDING SPECIAL MUNITIONS; I cannot even begin to express how happy I am about seeing this. I love you guys!
+ The idea of hunts are thrilling! (Pun intended) And I absolutely love the idea of hunts and marks together. Well done, team!
+ Snipe, headshot and all of the charged abilities looks amazing animation-wise.
+ The animations are absolutely breathtaking for being in Alpha. It is just amazing!
+ All in all - assuming this is a stock ranger - I am beyond hyped. Great work, Steven - great work,team! You did amazing! You NAILED the ranger fantasy!
Now, for the concerned list:
- The projectiles on some of the abilities (especially the Lightning Arrow) looks extremely off. I know it has been stated that homing arrows will be a thing primarily through magus sub-archetypes - and I believe you guys should keep it like that. Stock ranger should have some magical arrows (like snipe) - but please keep the flashiest and fanciest stuff for the ranger/mage class!
- Don't give ranger too much AoE! I know there was only "two" AoE abilities, but remember that MAGE is supposed to be the AoE class. If a stock ranger can keep up with a mage in pure AoE power (and even single-target burst), then something is off!
- Rangers should have some burst (obviously) but imo MAGE and ROGUE should be out-DPSing the ranger in burst-intervals; in my opinion. (But yeah, I remember you guys saying that you are not balancing anything right now so mute point atm :] ) *THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS MARKS SHOULD NOT STACK!*
- The attack speed on the auto attack should be tuned down a bit; let rapid fire be the "rapid fire". :]
- WHAT DO THE RANGER BRING TO THE PARTY? Are the marks for all attackers, or only the ranger? If the marks are only for the ranger, do we bring anything else to the table other than damage and... Sniffing out enemies?
- Quiver? I want my quiver!
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
So my personal favorite is the Guild Wars 2 ranger. No doubt. The old school survival hunter from WoW is a close second. But to be honest, you guys seem to be topping the list!
On the subject of ranger secondary archetype...
So during the stream Steven stated (?) that secondary archetypes will not affect the classes too much, but I wanted to put this out there:
Steven spoke of "summoning a hound that can track enemies" and I wanted to add this: PLEASE make this a thing of the summoner sub-archetype. DO NOT tie down rangers to external companions and animals; let rangers choose if they want that fantasy or if they want to be the tracker themselves. Make secondary archetypes relevant for the different ranger fantasies - some rangers are inspired by Aragon, some Legolas, some nature-themed spell caster (remember that you do not have a druid class!) and some beast masters with one or more trusty animal companions.
Also, please let falconeers have owls. Please? Pretty please? :]
A. I thought everything looked really good from a visual standpoint. I liked the overall theme for the ranger and I look forward to seeing it fleshed out.
Q. What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A. I am looking forward to the rouge update myself, but as for interacting with the ranger, I would like to have good back and fourth when interacting with any class. I.e. they jump away so I have to stealth to get close again e.t.c. e.t.c
Q. Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
I would like to see more skilled play rewarded better. From what I have seen not a lot of the abilities are aimed or have some sort of skill shot. I really liked the skill shot abilities shown off in the showcase and I would like to see more of that kind of ability design.
Q. Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I like the way combat is done in games such as monster hunter with their bows, and as a League player I liked the the bear traps put down in the showcase it remined me of Caitlyn's traps which can be a fun mechanic to play around. Maybe take a look at the marksmen class of champions/legends in Moba games for ability ideas, if you have not already. Good luck on the rest of development!
Flying at high level only for the time out of combat, once Raven got aggro it would come down and fight just like in the video.
In short: Let the Raven Monster fly high up out of combat.
Few thoughts:
Creative design that makes space for Player Expression/Agency
I absolutely loved the creative direction of some of the skills shown that allow for fun and creative player expression/agency such as Retreat, Airstrike, Barrage & Scatter shot. These are able to be used in different ways / for different purposes and separate a great/creative player from another.
Team is absolutely killing it with these, love it.
Omnidirectional Retreat & Player Skill Expression
Continuing on the topic of skill expression, in the update it was mentioned that, regarding the Retreat ability, it was a completely free choice if you wanted retreat to go backwards or whatever direction of your input. I believe this is missed opportunity when it comes to skill expression.
With a only backwards ability a great player can be separated from another player by being able to control their character and use Retreat for other purposes such as a gap closer or traversal. With a free omnidirectional option this becomes the default "most efficient" way to play.
So in short, I'd much rather see the omnidirectional option come at a cost such as: "You can retreat in any direction but you only go 60% as far."
Every class can use every weapon
I'm very interested to see where you guys are taking this. You clearly are designing classes with a very narrow subset of weapons in mind so this makes me think that when you say "every class can use every weapon", in reality, you mean they literally can equip it and make use of it but it does not interact with your class kit in any way. If this is the case I think this should be clearly stated or, if that is too hard to convey, the default position should be "the ranger can only really use bows effectively" rather than "the ranger can use any weapon but these skills wont work".
Once again, you guys are shaping this game into something really special, it's looking incredible.
Edit:
Forgot to mention the mark spell effects. Those did feel a little to much or at least a little too "mage-like".
2.Bear trap is way too big and too visible. Hopefully applying augments will change the name of the trap.
3.Auto-attacks are waaaaay to fast. Do weapons even have speed value?
4.Thunderous shot seems out of place for ranger class fantasy, in both name and mechanics. Explosive shot would be more fitting? LOS breaking abilities should be reserved to a single class, which in my opinion, should be mages.
5.Marks are visually look good. Hunts too, but I would add animal sound effect when you use them. Also, I would rename Raven one into Hawk or Eagle.
Ravens are notorious scavengers, not predators.
6.Disengage abilities are 10/10
7. LACK OF QUIVERS is unacceptable!!!! Do not agree on completely ditching ammo either, but its not that big of a deal.
The announcement part was not.
Why would you once again sell your audience a tentative date, that you are not sure of hitting?
It leaves you with a bitter taste, since you are gonna stop selling the access to A2 soon and have never hit any previously announced dates. (Apoc and A1 several times)
All the classes have access to combat pets! https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_pets
I would encourage Intrepid to make sure that Omnidirectional Disengage's movement is determined by the player's directional input and not by the "current direction the character is moving." You don't want to get hit by a caravan Repulsor, press Forward and Disengage to get back into the fight, but then end up even further in the wrong direction! Anyone who has played WoW mage Blink with Arcane Momentum turned on during a boss that has a knockback ability should be familiar with this problem.
Steven is correct and respeccing skill trees should require the player to come back to a node to change their loadout. Players will already be swapping gear in the field occasionally, being tempted to change your skills for every different encounter would be disruptive to gameplay. Intrepid should preserve the decision-making process of preparing for your planned expedition in the node.
Also, it was very refreshing to hear Margaret mention that Melee Ranger is still something Intrepid is keeping in mind. I would highly encourage the design team to not make these alternate weapon choices an afterthought! For example, a Fighter that incorporates bow attacks regularly in their combat style would add some serious depth of choice for players of that archetype.
Thanks for reading!