I’d prefer a slower leveling experience at the rate of 5 levels per in game year (1 or 2 months real time). Meaning 10 months to reach level 50 at minimum. Node progression needs to be at least 2-5 times as slow, or exponential as the node progresses higher. So a Metropolis ought to feel like a Titan in Eve Online.
That would quickly and immediately turn a lot of potential players away. Nearly 5 months just to unlock your secondary class? Absolutely not.
Nodes are meant to rise and fall with decent speed, because that's how content is enabled or disabled within the world. It shouldn't take 10months before we see a metro-based dungeon.
The ask was what we would want. Answer provided. I’d also like in game aging where your heroes have a limited lifespan. I know that’s not going to happen. Without those two things, I would view it more as an arcade game with respect to scale. I know I am on the extreme end of this.
I also stated the time could be practically arbitrary. All depends on the scale and rate of change they want to chase.
If the intent is to make a game to play for 20+ years, then that 5-10 month range isn’t really that much time. If some players don’t want that, then doesn’t sound like they’d stick around for 20+ years either. Thought Intrepid was trying to break away from the less than 2 month cycle of players engaged briefly and then moving on to the next game.
But I assume Stephen will go with a rate of progression similar to Eve Online, Lineage 2 or ArcheAge, some of the games that inspire AoC. Metros would likely be similar to the first Titan Steve in Eve Online, I think. Meaning a lot of time and effort to get there. Throw in node wars and the dependency on supporting nodes, and I think it could be a while before the first metro appears. Or maybe it’s all up to the players to see what happens. Not sure they stated the rate of progression for nodes the way they have for PCs.
I’d prefer a slower leveling experience at the rate of 5 levels per in game year (1 or 2 months real time). Meaning 10 months to reach level 50 at minimum. Node progression needs to be at least 2-5 times as slow, or exponential as the node progresses higher. So a Metropolis ought to feel like a Titan in Eve Online.
That would quickly and immediately turn a lot of potential players away. Nearly 5 months just to unlock your secondary class? Absolutely not.
Nodes are meant to rise and fall with decent speed, because that's how content is enabled or disabled within the world. It shouldn't take 10months before we see a metro-based dungeon.
The ask was what we would want. Answer provided. I’d also like in game aging where your heroes have a limited lifespan. I know that’s not going to happen. Without those two things, I would view it more as an arcade game with respect to scale. I know I am on the extreme end of this.
I also stated the time could be practically arbitrary. All depends on the scale and rate of change they want to chase.
If the intent is to make a game to play for 20+ years, then that 5-10 month range isn’t really that much time. If some players don’t want that, then doesn’t sound like they’d stick around for 20+ years either. Thought Intrepid was trying to break away from the less than 2 month cycle of players engaged briefly and then moving on to the next game.
But I assume Stephen will go with a rate of progression similar to Eve Online, Lineage 2 or ArcheAge, some of the games that inspire AoC. Metros would likely be similar to the first Titan Steve in Eve Online, I think. Meaning a lot of time and effort to get there. Throw in node wars and the dependency on supporting nodes, and I think it could be a while before the first metro appears. Or maybe it’s all up to the players to see what happens. Not sure they stated the rate of progression for nodes the way they have for PCs.
It'll take 'many weeks' to level all the way to a metro, so a couple months, just a little over the expected time to level to 50, which is required to engage with quite a few systems.
MMOs can't project for 20+ years out, the majority don't last even a decade, so trying to make it take a year just to reach the point where you actually get to interact with the full systems of the game is out of the question if it's meant to be an enjoyable experience.
it is actually about certain people forcing other people to level slower because they don't like people to level faster than them!
On which planet or star in the entire universe does it make any sense? If player X spends more hours in game than player Y, it doesn't matter how long leveling takes, 50 hours or 900 hours - player X will reach the level cap faster
I’m fine with a slower leveling pace as long as it’s not too reliant on grouping. Otherwise, it will take an excessively long time to level up, especially for those who start later. It would also help if there are engaging activities to do in between leveling.
I’m fine with a slower leveling pace as long as it’s not too reliant on grouping. Otherwise, it will take an excessively long time to level up, especially for those who start later. It would also help if there are engaging activities to do in between leveling.
Pretty sure solo leveling will be a viable option. Group leveling will be somewhat faster anyway (easier, less deaths, more locations avaiable, group XP bonus), but I suppose that if you want to do it solo - there will be more than enough opportunities
3
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Help Players to defend the Nodes against Attackers ?
There are Mercenary NPCs that can be assigned to players. We've discussed about that before and those will follow generically... a pet system even adopted majority of the pet system with the added bonus of objective based points of interest that you can assign them to. But we don't want to inundate the field with these Mercenaries; they'll be few and far between. They'll be assigned specifically. Like, let's say for example, as the Mayor of a Node, during a siege you'll be able to assign these two specific players that are Citizens within your Node and then they'll have those they'll spawn during the during the Node Siege; or vice versa and the Castle Siege guild leaders can assign Mercenaries that are available based on the progress of those subsidiary Nodes around the Castle Siege whether or not you have those available to your defense or your attack.
---Steven
That sounds way more limited than "troops" of NPC Mercenaries.
I don't think NPC Mercenaries will be what's keeping Metros from being destroyed.
Oh geez. You might be right. Maybe a super-stable Metro would be horrible for many People who would love some change in the World of Verra and might never get it - as long as a certain few Locations are always with a Metropolis.
Which is the intended motivation to initiate Node Sieges.
We'll have to see how that actually playes out.
But when the Metropolis CAN. NOT. otherwise than fall someday that would also make for nice Content against the feared "Mega-Guilds" and their wannabe-superior, eternal Reign and Rule. Like +400 to +500 Super-Elitist Players defending the Node every Day all Year long and STILL lose it at some point. 🤣 🤣
player X spends more hours in game than player Y, it doesn't matter how long leveling takes, 50 hours or 900 hours - player X will reach the level cap faster[/b]
Interesting that you claim you "want to level slower" yet in your next quote claim that some people will take 50 hours and some people "maybe the ones who want to level slower" could take 900 hours! So you admit you can level slower on your own but that it is not what you are after you want to force other people to level slower. If it is not about forcing the majority to have to take longer to level and just certain few who want it longer for themselves then why not ask Intrepid to put in a toggle in settings that cuts you xp earned in half so you can slowly enjoy your game?
That fact of the matter is you will not stop people from powering their way to max level and the only thing your suggesting here is to punish everyone else so you can delay them by a week or two. You have the power to level as fast or slow as you want. It is what you make of it not intrepid play at your own speed.
Finally I am curious why @Flanker would open two threads about the exact same topic? Why is it that you couldn't win your arguments in one and had to have this one for a fall back?
Interesting that you claim you "want to level slower" yet in your next quote claim that some people will take 50 hours and some people "maybe the ones who want to level slower" could take 900 hours!
Interesting, how you didn't manage to realize that there was a typo and there should have been "If" instead of "I". It's pretty obvious but you decided to twist the point that I was making.
So you admit you can level slower on your own but that it is not what you are after you want to force other people to level slower.
Buddy, your distorted interpretations of my words don't bother me, but it only shows your desperation. If you can't compehend a simple fact that someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, 50 or 5000 hours - you shouldn't have missed the Math classes in your Elementary school.
why not ask Intrepid to put in a toggle in settings that cuts you xp earned in half so you can slowly enjoy your game
I desperately hope you are smart enough to answer your own question. Also, I desperately hope that you will be smart enough to not ask ... this kind of questions at some point in future.
That fact of the matter is you will not stop people from powering their way to max level and the only thing your suggesting here is to punish everyone else so you can delay them by a week or two. You have the power to level as fast or slow as you want. It is what you make of it not intrepid play at your own speed.
No comments on this nonsense. If mental gymnastics was one of the Olympic sports, the gold medal would be yours, hands down.
Finally I am curious why @Flanker would open two threads about the exact same topic?
OMG CALL THE COPS!!! CALL FBI!!! CALL INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE!!!!
If you can't read and comprehend that this topic was a general poll that I made almost 8 months ago and another one is an actual suggestion - there is nothing I can help you with. I wasn't the one who bumped it anyway.
Why is it that you couldn't win your arguments in one and had to have this one for a fall back?
Are you like... okay? We established that you have some issues with counting and reading, but apparently you have issues with dates as well? You can't check the date when this thread was created? You can't see that I wasn't the one who reanimated it?
Apparently, you are a casual player who thinks (for whatever reason that makes 0 sense - at least I haven't seen a single decent counterpoint so far) that slower leveling in a game like Ashes is somehow bad. You are clearly talking as someone who unconsciously thinks that "all fun begins at max level" or "if leveling is fast, then I will be able to compete with hardcore players" or something like that. Therefore, YOU want to make the game meet YOUR personal preferences, instead of thinking what is better for the game OVERALL - which is what I am doing or, at least, trying to do
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited October 2
I dunno what you can possibly mean by "slower" and "faster".
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
Leveling that programitically restricts reaching Level 50 to be significantly slower than 250 would be bad.
Again, slower leveling equals the time to reach the next level - and the time it takes to acquire the rewards/skills/stats associated with the next level.
Thankfully, Ashes does not do that.
Instead, Ashes offers other progression paths that players can choose to pursue before they reach Adventurer Level 50, thereby also extending the time it takes for them to reach Level 50. Or... players can choose to pursue those progression paths after they reach Adventuer Level 50.
Ashes offers options:
Players who wish to hit Adventurer Level 50 in 225 hours can do so.
Players who wish to take longer to hit Adventurer Level 50 can do so by pursuing the other progression paths before reaching max Adventurer Level. Players can Level to max Adventurer Level more slowly than 225 hours if they so desire.
Best of both worlds.
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
Appreciate your detailed explanation about something that I never actually suggested.
I do like the 250ish hours or so to get max level. I do think there needs to be a catch up mechanic added later. Maybe 6-12 months after launch. Be that leveling time is sped up. Mentor system that lets high level players level cap down to their low level friends. Or the low level is cap up to the mentors level to get exp in high level dungeon with friends. I cant picture being at cap level and telling your friends to come play Ashes and say, ok see ya in a year. I really dont care how this is done but it needs to happen at some point.
I do like the 250ish hours or so to get max level. I do think there needs to be a catch up mechanic added later. Maybe 6-12 months after launch. Be that leveling time is sped up. Mentor system that lets high level players level cap down to their low level friends. Or the low level is cap up to the mentors level to get exp in high level dungeon with friends. I cant picture being at cap level and telling your friends to come play Ashes and say, ok see ya in a year. I really dont care how this is done but it needs to happen at some point.
The "gap" between casual and hardcore players can be adjusted by balancing Rested XP - simple as that
I do like the 250ish hours or so to get max level. I do think there needs to be a catch up mechanic added later. Maybe 6-12 months after launch. Be that leveling time is sped up. Mentor system that lets high level players level cap down to their low level friends. Or the low level is cap up to the mentors level to get exp in high level dungeon with friends. I cant picture being at cap level and telling your friends to come play Ashes and say, ok see ya in a year. I really dont care how this is done but it needs to happen at some point.
The "gap" between casual and hardcore players can be adjusted by balancing Rested XP - simple as that
That has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
EDIT: What I am talking about a year after launch. There should be ways to speed up peoples leveling that join Ashes when the majority of the players are playing at cap. IS could speed up the leveling process or do things like Mentorship with players. So low levels players can play with their friends. Or what ever mechanic IS wants to use but this would be a later thing.
See this why i don't trust anything you say Flanker because you do nothing but deceive and manipulate. Take the poll for example 10 people up voted and wrote a few comments yet if you look at the actual poll it shows a different picture.
Leveling Speed
Discussion
Wiki states the following:
On release the developers anticipate max level should be attainable in approximately 45 days if playing 4-6 hours per day.
This is equivalent to approximately 225 hours to reach level 50. What is your opinion on this? Would you prefer it to be faster, slower, or keep it as it is? Why?
Closed • 557 total votes
139
Slower 306 <---- Majority
Keep it as it is
112
Faster
I am sure the faster crowd will join the 306 who voted keep it as is before they would ever join the slower crowd. So that means 418 vs 139 it is basic math and you can try and do your deceptive spin of maybe there was a full moon , a solar eclipse was happening, it was high tide and people weren't thinking correctly or to sum your own words
Oh, my friend, obviously it has never ever happened in history - when majority of people voted for something that ended up being a wrong/bad/counterproductive/terrible. I'm not using this as an actual argument, I mention this so that you just keep it in mind.
Now, statistics never lie, but only in case if you properly interpret it.
So the majority is wrong and you will interpret what everyone should be thinking!
I dunno what you can possibly mean by "slower" and "faster".
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
Leveling that programitically restricts reaching Level 50 to be significantly slower than 250 would be bad.
Again, slower leveling equals the time to reach the next level - and the time it takes to acquire the rewards/skills/stats associated with the next level.
Thankfully, Ashes does not do that.
Instead, Ashes offers other progression paths that players can choose to pursue before they reach Adventurer Level 50, thereby also extending the time it takes for them to reach Level 50. Or... players can choose to pursue those progression paths after they reach Adventuer Level 50.
Ashes offers options:
Players who wish to hit Adventurer Level 50 in 225 hours can do so.
Players who wish to take longer to hit Adventurer Level 50 can do so by pursuing the other progression paths before reaching max Adventurer Level. Players can Level to max Adventurer Level more slowly than 225 hours if they so desire.
Best of both worlds.
I think @Dygz summed it up better then anything I have seen so far well done!
See this why i don't trust anything you say Flanker because you do nothing but deceive and manipulate.
It's funny how you take into account only the information that proves your point, but completely ignore everything that goes against it. Replies in this thread, comments under reddit posts and all those people who upvoted them. Confirmation bias at its finest.
Also, it's funny how you only quoted a part of my message about that poll while completely missing other important points. Lying by omission is a primitive tactic and you won't be able to use that trick with me.
Now, statistics never lie, but only in case if you properly interpret it. What I mean by that is... let's say, metaphorically, that 20% of car accidents happen because of drunk driving. I means that the remaining 80% of accidents happen when the driver is sober. Does it mean that sober driving is riskier than drunk driving? Obviously not.
What you need to realize, while analyzing the results of that poll:
1. The average Reddit user would have less knowledge about the game compared to the average forum user. Also, as I said previously, I highly doubt that the average voter thought about this topic seriously for at least a minute prior to clicking one of the options.
2. If you are really looking for truth, then it's crucial to take so-called "status quo bias" when it comes to a representative sampling of poll participants. For reference:
A status quo bias or default bias is a cognitive bias which results from a preference for the maintenance of one's existing state of affairs. The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss or gain. Corresponding to different alternatives, this current baseline or default option is perceived and evaluated by individuals as a positive.
Status quo bias is a cognitive bias based in emotion. Change naturally invites risk, and people may be uncomfortable putting themselves in situations where the outcome is uncertain. This tendency to keep things the way they are can have a considerable effect on how people behave in virtually any aspect of life.
And as I said, if you ignore the middle ground, more people actually voted for "slower" leveling compared to "faster" option
3. You look at the poll, yet you completely ignore the comments. Here are the top comments under that poll. If you want to be objective, shouldn't you take them into account?
I think @Dygz summed it up better then anything I have seen so far well done!
This part perfectly summarizes what's going on in your head. You're literally ready to s... agree with anyone who disagrees with me. The funniest part is that @Dygz 's comments is based on false assumption that (I think) he made accidentally.
But you didn't even cared to understand what he wrote and that I never implied anything that he disagreed with. A perfect example of hive mind and tribalism.
If someone actually provides a decent counterpoint, that's definitely not gonna be you, kid
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Appreciate your detailed explanation about something that I never actually suggested.
You did suggest what I said you suggested here: If you can't compehend a simple fact that someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, 50 or 5000 hours - you shouldn't have missed the Math classes in your Elementary school.
That obviously has to be about DAYS rather than HOURS because if it's 225 hours to max Adventurer Level it doesn't matter how many DAYS it takes. Casual Time v Hardcore Time is irrelevant.
It will take the Casual Time player 225 hours. It will take the Hardcore Time player 225 hours.
Which is why I replied: I dunno what you can possibly mean by "slower" and "faster".
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
You also later suggest: The "gap" between casual and hardcore players can be adjusted by balancing Rested XP - simple as that.
Appreciate your detailed explanation about something that I never actually suggested.
You did suggest what I said you suggested here: If you can't compehend a simple fact that someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, 50 or 5000 hours - you shouldn't have missed the Math classes in your Elementary school.
That obviously has to be about DAYS rather than HOURS because if it's 225 hours to max Adventurer Level it doesn't matter how many DAYS it takes. Casual Time v Hardcore Time is irrelevant.
It will take the Casual Time player 225 hours. It will take the Hardcore Time player 225 hours.
Buddy, what are you even talking about?
I'm responsbile for what I say. I'm not responsible for 100 possible interpretations of my words. You completely missed the point that I made and instead, you talk about some "days" that I never even mentioned.
Like, what?
And of course, your fangirl will like anything you say as long as it is you disagreeing with me.
Appreciate your detailed explanation about something that I never actually suggested.
You did suggest what I said you suggested here: If you can't compehend a simple fact that someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, 50 or 5000 hours - you shouldn't have missed the Math classes in your Elementary school.
That obviously has to be about DAYS rather than HOURS because if it's 225 hours to max Adventurer Level it doesn't matter how many DAYS it takes. Casual Time v Hardcore Time is irrelevant.
It will take the Casual Time player 225 hours. It will take the Hardcore Time player 225 hours.
Buddy, what are you even talking about?
I'm responsbile for what I say. I'm not responsible for 100 possible interpretations of my words. You completely missed the point that I made and instead, you talk about some "days" that I never even mentioned.
Like, what?
And of course, your fangirl will like anything you say as long as it is you disagreeing with me.
It's funny how you only understand what you want to understand and divert and deflect facts or play ignorant on anything you cannot.
It's funny how you only understand what you want to understand and divert and deflect facts or play ignorant on anything you cannot.
I just debunked your bs above and the only thing you're capable of now is parroting the same nonsense, trying to accuse me in something you are actually doing yourself.
It's funny how you only understand what you want to understand and divert and deflect facts or play ignorant on anything you cannot.
I just debunked your bs above and the only thing you're capable of now is parroting the same nonsense, trying to accuse me in something you are actually doing yourself.
RIP
You haven't said anything to debunk what i have said or Dygz you have just played victim and are trying to deflect the conversation.
You haven't said anything to debunk what i have said or Dygz you have just played victim and are trying to deflect the conversation.
KEKW what's there I'm trying to deflect? I literally replied to all main counterpoints in both topics
Where am I trying to play a victim? My mentality and mindset would never let that happen, I have no desire to feel ashamed of myself for the rest of my life. After all, it is not me whining here about literally anything. Cut your nonsense
Mate, you high or something? You can't just publicly spit random accusations based on thin air, your emotions and insecurities, and then expect to not be called out for them
You can't say anything constructive yourself, you can't provide any data to support your point, you can't handle a proper discussion
All you do is waiting for someone who can actually put two words together and then try to parrot whatever they say. If you wanna exist in echo chamber - just say it, at least I'd appreciate your honesty
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'm responsbile for what I say. I'm not responsible for 100 possible interpretations of my words. You completely missed the point that I made and instead, you talk about some "days" that I never even mentioned.
You are responsible for what you say. Yes.
I dunno how you cannot have mentioned "days" when you wrote: "Someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day."
Are you saying those are not your words?
If someone misinterprets your meaning because of your poor choice of words, you should be able to clarify by rephrasing/reframing. That's the way discussion works.
If you aren't interested in clarifying your perspective - that's fine. It's a free world.
You are responsible for what you say. Yes.
I dunno how you cannot have mentioned "days" when you wrote: "Someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day."
Are you saying those are not your words?
If someone misinterprets your meaning because of your poor choice of words, you should be able to clarify by rephrasing/reframing. That's the way discussion works.
If you aren't interested in clarifying your perspective - that's fine. It's a free world.
I said exactly what I wanted to say and phrased it with no implied ambiguity.
If someone misunderstands someone else's words, there are three possible reasons behind that:
1. Poor choice of words, as you called it
2. Misunderstanding the point itself and/or making wrong assumptions/conclusions based on that
3. Doing that on purpose
I have no reason to think that you did it on purpose and the words I've used in that phrase expressed the point that I wanted to make
Which was a simple fact
If someone plays 6h/day, he will reach the level cap faster than someone who plays 3h/day. This should be obvious, right?
As well as the fact that in doesn't matter whether leveling takes 50 or 5000 hours. 6h/day player will still reach it faster than 3h/day play in both cases.
That's all I wanted to say.
Will it take less days? Well, yeah, apprarently it will, unless leveling takes 3 or less hours, because in this case both would achieve it within 1 day.
So what is that exactly that you don't understand or disagree with?
On release the developers anticipate max level should be attainable in approximately 45 days if playing 4-6 hours per day.
This is equivalent to approximately 225 hours to reach level 50. What is your opinion on this? Would you prefer it to be faster, slower, or keep it as it is? Why?
Closed • 557 total votes
139
Slower 306 <---- Majority
Keep it as it is
112
Faster
I am sure the faster crowd will join the 306 who voted keep it as is before they would ever join the slower crowd. So that means 418 vs 139 it is basic math and you can try and do your deceptive spin of maybe there was a full moon , a solar eclipse was happening, it was high tide and people weren't thinking correctly or to sum your own words
I was going to do a big posts quoting etc so I went and reread reddit with the poll and you know what i saw little flanker_YouTube posting in the thread and even back then you were around for that poll and you still lost out lmfao. So you knew what people wanted from that poll all along how deceptive lol How many more threads are you going to make? I knew i smelt a weasel.
On release the developers anticipate max level should be attainable in approximately 45 days if playing 4-6 hours per day.
This is equivalent to approximately 225 hours to reach level 50. What is your opinion on this? Would you prefer it to be faster, slower, or keep it as it is? Why?
Closed • 557 total votes
139
Slower 306 <---- Majority
Keep it as it is
112
Faster
I am sure the faster crowd will join the 306 who voted keep it as is before they would ever join the slower crowd. So that means 418 vs 139 it is basic math and you can try and do your deceptive spin of maybe there was a full moon , a solar eclipse was happening, it was high tide and people weren't thinking correctly or to sum your own words
I was going to do a big posts quoting etc so I went and reread reddit with the poll and you know what i saw little flanker_YouTube posting in the thread and even back then you were around for that poll and you still lost out lmfao. So you knew what people wanted from that poll all along how deceptive lol How many more threads are you going to make? I knew i smelt a weasel.
Now, statistics never lie, but only in case if you properly interpret it. What I mean by that is... let's say, metaphorically, that 20% of car accidents happen because of drunk driving. I means that the remaining 80% of accidents happen when the driver is sober. Does it mean that sober driving is riskier than drunk driving? Obviously not.
What you need to realize, while analyzing the results of that poll:
1. The average Reddit user would have less knowledge about the game compared to the average forum user. Also, as I said previously, I highly doubt that the average voter thought about this topic seriously for at least a minute prior to clicking one of the options.
2. If you are really looking for truth, then it's crucial to take so-called "status quo bias" when it comes to a representative sampling of poll participants. For reference:
A status quo bias or default bias is a cognitive bias which results from a preference for the maintenance of one's existing state of affairs. The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss or gain. Corresponding to different alternatives, this current baseline or default option is perceived and evaluated by individuals as a positive.
Status quo bias is a cognitive bias based in emotion. Change naturally invites risk, and people may be uncomfortable putting themselves in situations where the outcome is uncertain. This tendency to keep things the way they are can have a considerable effect on how people behave in virtually any aspect of life.
And as I said, if you ignore the middle ground, more people actually voted for "slower" leveling compared to "faster" option
3. You look at the poll, yet you completely ignore the comments. Here are the top comments under that poll. If you want to be objective, shouldn't you take them into account?[/b]
You wrote that already and you got a reply to that already
If you think that statistical data analysis only requires looking at numbers without understanding the nature of the sampling and interpreting the obtained data in a proper way, I'd give you a friendly advice to never touch this topic ever again
Next time, I'll avoid using 4-letter words and longer, and, additionally, will type it 3 times slower to give you a long chance to actually understand something that is clearly beyond your ability to comprehend things
If you think that statistical data analysis only requires looking at numbers without understanding the nature of the sampling and interpreting the obtained data in a proper way, I'd give you a friendly advice to never touch this topic ever again
Well son lets see what you got
1. hypotheses
2. sample data
3. descriptive data summery
4. how have you tested your hypotheses
5. I already know what your gonna say it is the data all points to Mao Flanker knowing best but lets see it in writing anyway.
Oh i want charts and graphs please as well since your an expert. This sounds like a lot more fun than you just talking to hear your own head roar!
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As well as the fact that it doesn't matter whether leveling takes 50 or 5000 hours. 6h/day player will still reach it faster than 3h/day play in both cases.
The hours of actual gameplay are what matter. The days are irrelevant - especially for Ashes.
But, also for most games releasing in the last couple of years.
Because it's now become relatively easy/common for devs to drop brand new content every 3-4 months rather than needing to wait 12-18 months for brand new content.
Will it take less days? Well, yeah, apprarently it will, unless leveling takes 3 or less hours, because in this case both would achieve it within 1 day.
Fewer days is irrelevant when it comes to slower or faster.
Hours of gameplay to the next Adventurer/Class Level are what matter.
The issue for Leveling is how many hours to reach the next Adventurer/Class; not how many days it takes to reach max Adventurer Level.
For Ashes, days to max Adventurer Level are completely irrelevant because there are many other forms of progression to pursue after reaching max Level Adventurer. Node Progression is continuous as Nodes rise and fall. And, by design, the devs will be dropping brand new content every 3-4 months, so players won't have to wait 12-18 months for brand new content.
Because the true issue is ensuring that there's still plenty of fun stuff to do after reaching max Adventurer Level. The bullet that needs to be dodges is being stuck at Endgame, where the only thing to do for 12-18 months is Dungeons/Raids. And the Ashes design already has solutions for that.
Players who truly wish to reach max Adventurer Level more slowly than 225 hours can do so by pursuing the other progression paths before they reach max Adventurer Level.
Ashes doesn't have an Endgame like previous MMORPGs did. Ashes is already designed to dodge the Endgame bullet. And 225 hours is already Leveling more slowly than the vast majority of MMORPGs.
I didn't misunderstand anything.
I disagree that 6h/day v 3h/day is relevant.
Comments
The ask was what we would want. Answer provided. I’d also like in game aging where your heroes have a limited lifespan. I know that’s not going to happen. Without those two things, I would view it more as an arcade game with respect to scale. I know I am on the extreme end of this.
I also stated the time could be practically arbitrary. All depends on the scale and rate of change they want to chase.
If the intent is to make a game to play for 20+ years, then that 5-10 month range isn’t really that much time. If some players don’t want that, then doesn’t sound like they’d stick around for 20+ years either. Thought Intrepid was trying to break away from the less than 2 month cycle of players engaged briefly and then moving on to the next game.
But I assume Stephen will go with a rate of progression similar to Eve Online, Lineage 2 or ArcheAge, some of the games that inspire AoC. Metros would likely be similar to the first Titan Steve in Eve Online, I think. Meaning a lot of time and effort to get there. Throw in node wars and the dependency on supporting nodes, and I think it could be a while before the first metro appears. Or maybe it’s all up to the players to see what happens. Not sure they stated the rate of progression for nodes the way they have for PCs.
They have, which you can find on the wiki https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_advancement
It'll take 'many weeks' to level all the way to a metro, so a couple months, just a little over the expected time to level to 50, which is required to engage with quite a few systems.
MMOs can't project for 20+ years out, the majority don't last even a decade, so trying to make it take a year just to reach the point where you actually get to interact with the full systems of the game is out of the question if it's meant to be an enjoyable experience.
> @Zehlan - "No, they don't want it to be slower"
On which planet or star in the entire universe does it make any sense? If player X spends more hours in game than player Y, it doesn't matter how long leveling takes, 50 hours or 900 hours - player X will reach the level cap faster
Edit: typo - "If" instead of "I"
---Steven
That sounds way more limited than "troops" of NPC Mercenaries.
I don't think NPC Mercenaries will be what's keeping Metros from being destroyed.
They just have to survive Sieges while still a Stage 5 City and progress faster than their neighboring Nodes.
Yep. I agree.
Which is the intended motivation to initiate Node Sieges.
We'll have to see how that actually playes out.
🤣
Interesting that you claim you "want to level slower" yet in your next quote claim that some people will take 50 hours and some people "maybe the ones who want to level slower" could take 900 hours! So you admit you can level slower on your own but that it is not what you are after you want to force other people to level slower. If it is not about forcing the majority to have to take longer to level and just certain few who want it longer for themselves then why not ask Intrepid to put in a toggle in settings that cuts you xp earned in half so you can slowly enjoy your game?
That fact of the matter is you will not stop people from powering their way to max level and the only thing your suggesting here is to punish everyone else so you can delay them by a week or two. You have the power to level as fast or slow as you want. It is what you make of it not intrepid play at your own speed.
Finally I am curious why @Flanker would open two threads about the exact same topic? Why is it that you couldn't win your arguments in one and had to have this one for a fall back?
Oh wait, you obviously won't do it, because it would immediately prove that you are wrong. I desperately hope you are smart enough to answer your own question. Also, I desperately hope that you will be smart enough to not ask ... this kind of questions at some point in future. No comments on this nonsense. If mental gymnastics was one of the Olympic sports, the gold medal would be yours, hands down. OMG CALL THE COPS!!! CALL FBI!!! CALL INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE!!!!
If you can't read and comprehend that this topic was a general poll that I made almost 8 months ago and another one is an actual suggestion - there is nothing I can help you with. I wasn't the one who bumped it anyway. Are you like... okay? We established that you have some issues with counting and reading, but apparently you have issues with dates as well? You can't check the date when this thread was created? You can't see that I wasn't the one who reanimated it?
Apparently, you are a casual player who thinks (for whatever reason that makes 0 sense - at least I haven't seen a single decent counterpoint so far) that slower leveling in a game like Ashes is somehow bad. You are clearly talking as someone who unconsciously thinks that "all fun begins at max level" or "if leveling is fast, then I will be able to compete with hardcore players" or something like that. Therefore, YOU want to make the game meet YOUR personal preferences, instead of thinking what is better for the game OVERALL - which is what I am doing or, at least, trying to do
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
Leveling that programitically restricts reaching Level 50 to be significantly slower than 250 would be bad.
Again, slower leveling equals the time to reach the next level - and the time it takes to acquire the rewards/skills/stats associated with the next level.
Thankfully, Ashes does not do that.
Instead, Ashes offers other progression paths that players can choose to pursue before they reach Adventurer Level 50, thereby also extending the time it takes for them to reach Level 50. Or... players can choose to pursue those progression paths after they reach Adventuer Level 50.
Ashes offers options:
Players who wish to hit Adventurer Level 50 in 225 hours can do so.
Players who wish to take longer to hit Adventurer Level 50 can do so by pursuing the other progression paths before reaching max Adventurer Level. Players can Level to max Adventurer Level more slowly than 225 hours if they so desire.
Best of both worlds.
Appreciate your detailed explanation about something that I never actually suggested.
That has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
EDIT: What I am talking about a year after launch. There should be ways to speed up peoples leveling that join Ashes when the majority of the players are playing at cap. IS could speed up the leveling process or do things like Mentorship with players. So low levels players can play with their friends. Or what ever mechanic IS wants to use but this would be a later thing.
See this why i don't trust anything you say Flanker because you do nothing but deceive and manipulate. Take the poll for example 10 people up voted and wrote a few comments yet if you look at the actual poll it shows a different picture.
Leveling Speed
Discussion
Wiki states the following:
On release the developers anticipate max level should be attainable in approximately 45 days if playing 4-6 hours per day.
This is equivalent to approximately 225 hours to reach level 50. What is your opinion on this? Would you prefer it to be faster, slower, or keep it as it is? Why?
Closed • 557 total votes
139
Slower
306 <---- Majority
Keep it as it is
112
Faster
I am sure the faster crowd will join the 306 who voted keep it as is before they would ever join the slower crowd. So that means 418 vs 139 it is basic math and you can try and do your deceptive spin of maybe there was a full moon , a solar eclipse was happening, it was high tide and people weren't thinking correctly or to sum your own words
So the majority is wrong and you will interpret what everyone should be thinking!
I think @Dygz summed it up better then anything I have seen so far well done!
Also, it's funny how you only quoted a part of my message about that poll while completely missing other important points. Lying by omission is a primitive tactic and you won't be able to use that trick with me.
This part perfectly summarizes what's going on in your head. You're literally ready to s... agree with anyone who disagrees with me. The funniest part is that @Dygz 's comments is based on false assumption that (I think) he made accidentally.
But you didn't even cared to understand what he wrote and that I never implied anything that he disagreed with. A perfect example of hive mind and tribalism.
If someone actually provides a decent counterpoint, that's definitely not gonna be you, kid
If you can't compehend a simple fact that someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, 50 or 5000 hours - you shouldn't have missed the Math classes in your Elementary school.
That obviously has to be about DAYS rather than HOURS because if it's 225 hours to max Adventurer Level it doesn't matter how many DAYS it takes. Casual Time v Hardcore Time is irrelevant.
It will take the Casual Time player 225 hours. It will take the Hardcore Time player 225 hours.
Which is why I replied:
I dunno what you can possibly mean by "slower" and "faster".
Now, you seem to want the time it takes to reach max Adventurer Level to be measured in days, rather than hours. In that case, there would need to be a programmed restriction on how much Adventurer xp can be earned per day.
You also later suggest:
The "gap" between casual and hardcore players can be adjusted by balancing Rested XP - simple as that.
I'm responsbile for what I say. I'm not responsible for 100 possible interpretations of my words. You completely missed the point that I made and instead, you talk about some "days" that I never even mentioned.
Like, what?
And of course, your fangirl will like anything you say as long as it is you disagreeing with me.
It's funny how you only understand what you want to understand and divert and deflect facts or play ignorant on anything you cannot.
RIP
You haven't said anything to debunk what i have said or Dygz you have just played victim and are trying to deflect the conversation.
Where am I trying to play a victim? My mentality and mindset would never let that happen, I have no desire to feel ashamed of myself for the rest of my life. After all, it is not me whining here about literally anything. Cut your nonsense
Mate, you high or something? You can't just publicly spit random accusations based on thin air, your emotions and insecurities, and then expect to not be called out for them
You can't say anything constructive yourself, you can't provide any data to support your point, you can't handle a proper discussion
All you do is waiting for someone who can actually put two words together and then try to parrot whatever they say. If you wanna exist in echo chamber - just say it, at least I'd appreciate your honesty
I dunno how you cannot have mentioned "days" when you wrote:
"Someone who plays 6/h day will reach the level cap faster than someone who play 3h/day."
Are you saying those are not your words?
If someone misinterprets your meaning because of your poor choice of words, you should be able to clarify by rephrasing/reframing. That's the way discussion works.
If you aren't interested in clarifying your perspective - that's fine. It's a free world.
If someone misunderstands someone else's words, there are three possible reasons behind that:
1. Poor choice of words, as you called it
2. Misunderstanding the point itself and/or making wrong assumptions/conclusions based on that
3. Doing that on purpose
I have no reason to think that you did it on purpose and the words I've used in that phrase expressed the point that I wanted to make
Which was a simple fact
If someone plays 6h/day, he will reach the level cap faster than someone who plays 3h/day. This should be obvious, right?
As well as the fact that in doesn't matter whether leveling takes 50 or 5000 hours. 6h/day player will still reach it faster than 3h/day play in both cases.
That's all I wanted to say.
Will it take less days? Well, yeah, apprarently it will, unless leveling takes 3 or less hours, because in this case both would achieve it within 1 day.
So what is that exactly that you don't understand or disagree with?
You wrote that already and you got a reply to that already
If you think that statistical data analysis only requires looking at numbers without understanding the nature of the sampling and interpreting the obtained data in a proper way, I'd give you a friendly advice to never touch this topic ever again
Next time, I'll avoid using 4-letter words and longer, and, additionally, will type it 3 times slower to give you a long chance to actually understand something that is clearly beyond your ability to comprehend things
Well son lets see what you got
1. hypotheses
2. sample data
3. descriptive data summery
4. how have you tested your hypotheses
5. I already know what your gonna say it is the data all points to Mao Flanker knowing best but lets see it in writing anyway.
Oh i want charts and graphs please as well since your an expert. This sounds like a lot more fun than you just talking to hear your own head roar!
The hours of actual gameplay are what matter. The days are irrelevant - especially for Ashes.
But, also for most games releasing in the last couple of years.
Because it's now become relatively easy/common for devs to drop brand new content every 3-4 months rather than needing to wait 12-18 months for brand new content.
Fewer days is irrelevant when it comes to slower or faster.
Hours of gameplay to the next Adventurer/Class Level are what matter.
The issue for Leveling is how many hours to reach the next Adventurer/Class; not how many days it takes to reach max Adventurer Level.
For Ashes, days to max Adventurer Level are completely irrelevant because there are many other forms of progression to pursue after reaching max Level Adventurer. Node Progression is continuous as Nodes rise and fall. And, by design, the devs will be dropping brand new content every 3-4 months, so players won't have to wait 12-18 months for brand new content.
Because the true issue is ensuring that there's still plenty of fun stuff to do after reaching max Adventurer Level. The bullet that needs to be dodges is being stuck at Endgame, where the only thing to do for 12-18 months is Dungeons/Raids. And the Ashes design already has solutions for that.
Players who truly wish to reach max Adventurer Level more slowly than 225 hours can do so by pursuing the other progression paths before they reach max Adventurer Level.
Ashes doesn't have an Endgame like previous MMORPGs did. Ashes is already designed to dodge the Endgame bullet. And 225 hours is already Leveling more slowly than the vast majority of MMORPGs.
I didn't misunderstand anything.
I disagree that 6h/day v 3h/day is relevant.