On to phase two, the fifteen pages of if the other system is actually 'better' or 'possible'.
Aiming for a 30 page TTK.
It was clear to me from the early pages, but I just had to discuss it all for a dozen pages, cause otherwise it's not clear to everyone who already doesn't care
@Mag7spy
I'm 100% good with paying more.
Just keep as an MMO offering.
Not structured like a FIFA/NBA2k/Counterstrike offering, that doesn't have a persistent mmo world to use.
Also: Are the BattlePass rewards only good for cosmetics?
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Getting this straight: Posters are saying the BattlePass...
???Players are paying a sub and they will have to pay more to do the BP? Or they will miss out on items and benefits???
That might be the worst mmo idea ever. Fit for failing mmos. >>>Certainly that is a pay-to-win structure.<<<
***Again. Okay with paying. Cost isn't an issue for me (see 3 alpha accounts). Easily will pay 25 a month as a sub, as opposed to doing any BPA$$ hijinx. If its an optional BPA$$, then Ill still pay it, but ill consider Intrepid to fall inline with Smilegate/PearlAbyss/King/Plarium. Which is a short term design.
If you want BP cosmetics you do the battle pass, if you do not you buy items on the market, or items on sale on the market. You don't get to get the BP items for cheap just cause. Get the battle pass and play the game, casual players aren't going to have a issue with that. We have already went over that this is more a personal issue for you.
Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it
People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.
you can't say having to play the game is "fing" someone over that makes 0 sense.
Now what games do "f" you over are gotcha games like Honkai Star Rail, genshin impact, Nevertwinter online (p2w plus higher tier cosmetics are faster and loot boxes), etc.
@Mag7spy
I'm 100% good with paying more.
Just keep as an MMO offering.
Not structured like a FIFA/NBA2k/Counterstrike offering, that doesn't have a persistent mmo world to use.
Also: Are the BattlePass rewards only good for cosmetics?
.
.
Getting this straight: Posters are saying the BattlePass...
???Players are paying a sub and they will have to pay more to do the BP? Or they will miss out on items and benefits???
That might be the worst mmo idea ever. Fit for failing mmos. >>>Certainly that is a pay-to-win structure.<<<
***Again. Okay with paying. Cost isn't an issue for me (see 3 alpha accounts). Easily will pay 25 a month as a sub, as opposed to doing any BPA$$ hijinx. If its an optional BPA$$, then Ill still pay it, but ill consider Intrepid to fall inline with Smilegate/PearlAbyss/King/Plarium. Which is a short term design.
There is no benefits to miss out on we are not talking about p2w we are talking about cosmetics. This is a different discussion if there is special benefits that make the game easier for you and no one is arguing for that.
The different between PA is their outfits were dog crap and it be easier to make the argument that they are trying to "f" people over by making everyone look bad / the same unless they spend money. but in AoC case the gear you get is going to look as good as cosmetics. So that isn't really a issue and again no p2w.
But yes they are both trying to monetize players (like every single other game) but they are going above the standard atm as far as new games are concerned. No p2w and just cosmetics.
People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.
So a person needs to keep paying the sub cost just to get the thing they already paid for in the BP, and that's NOT fucking people over?
Again, if my suggestion was implemented, Intrepid would get the money from people who might not want to buy the BP, but who want a cosmetic from it. If the person is not interested in playing the game for BP reason - they wouldn't pay for it, but they could still be interested in the cosmetics from it and might instead buy those directly.
If instead of having the BP direct people to random content we had in-game system that do that - people who don't care about the BP or cosmetics would spend more time in the game by default.
What I'm suggesting would bring more money to Intrepid and have more people play for longer, all w/o the optics of "this game has a BP", which obviously shades the game in a bad light, as evident by other commenters here who dislike BPs as a sheer concept.
But you keep insisting that BP is somehow more beneficial than what I'm suggesting.
Battle Passes don't belong in an MMO. Neither do "Seasons", seasons the weather awesome, "Seasons" the timed content like WoW is trying to do now are dumb and make no sense in an MMO. These things take you out of the world, and put you into a game (most likely smack in the middle of some monetization as well).
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it
There isn't a better system. It's basically the same system as Questing.
Just Quests have dialogue, take longer to complete than an individual BP Task and you generally get an item for completing one Quest rather than getting a completing a bunch of simple Tasks to get one item.
You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.
You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.
I'm talking about the monetization system there.
Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great
People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.
So a person needs to keep paying the sub cost just to get the thing they already paid for in the BP, and that's NOT fucking people over?
Again, if my suggestion was implemented, Intrepid would get the money from people who might not want to buy the BP, but who want a cosmetic from it. If the person is not interested in playing the game for BP reason - they wouldn't pay for it, but they could still be interested in the cosmetics from it and might instead buy those directly.
If instead of having the BP direct people to random content we had in-game system that do that - people who don't care about the BP or cosmetics would spend more time in the game by default.
What I'm suggesting would bring more money to Intrepid and have more people play for longer, all w/o the optics of "this game has a BP", which obviously shades the game in a bad light, as evident by other commenters here who dislike BPs as a sheer concept.
But you keep insisting that BP is somehow more beneficial than what I'm suggesting.
Yes the person needs to pay a sub free to be able to to use items they buy $$$ in the game, how is this even a question.
Intrepid will already get money from people that won't buy the BP because there is going to be a whole market place of items for people to buy from. Your suggestion doesn't do anything except saying IS should sell skins on sale which they will eventually already do.
Intrepid will get money from people that don't normally buy too much or are cheaper and usually use their item as a cost with a BP (which time is minimal as its usually on a casual level).
How many times do i need to say this YOU CAN DO ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME AND level UP THE BP. You don't need to do weekly or daily content if you don't want to.
It will bring money because its industry standard and people are fine with it. Again your suggestion is to sell things dirt cheap and not have the benefits of the battle pass for players that will enjoy the additional progress and or want to simply level one up for the rewards.
Tons of games have a a BP looking at optics doesn't change anything. Players are fine with BP, even more so when there is a free one and they can get a free items and buy it time to time. When we are talking about a cosmetic only BP where u can earn tons of outfits in the game already there is like no negative optics to even consider.
*edit im well aware of what is beneficial. Everything being free with a 15$ sub and no market place is beneficial as well, one time box cost would be super beneficial and tons of people can play im not going to argue what is more beneficial, ill argue what is realistic. A BP is not that big a deal in this situation it is the best case since people can ignore it if they want and it doesn't effect them. And people that want some items for cheap can pick it up or just enjoy that type of gameplay.
You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.
I'm talking about the monetization system there.
Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great
Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.
You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.
I'm talking about the monetization system there.
Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great
Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.
Yeah, NiKr, Mag is right here, though.
A modern BP is 'we will reward you with lower costs or maybe exclusive items for raising our playtime metrics'.
Quests with natural, immersive rewards are the exact opposite of this.
You may not like that, but it's much less immersive overall (EDIT:) to try to make them all fit. Source: BDO, where, despite it being a SinglePlayerMMO where you can more easily justify/immerse their events since you don't need to imagine other people, it's still jarring.
You want play metrics to be maintained without the BattlePass, right? How? Ashes isn't structured quite well enough to achieve that as a primary goal, so those who are arguing 'for' a BP are just seeing that.
Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.
You want play metrics to be maintained without the BattlePass, right? How? Ashes isn't structured quite well enough to achieve that as a primary goal, so those who are arguing 'for' a BP are just seeing that.
I feel like you both missed me saying "have every action in the game give you cosmetic currency and then price the cosmetics according to that rate".
This is the same fucking shit that the BP does, except with a different UI.
And as for playtime metrics - I already said as well, tasks will provide replayability with rewards. The cosmetic suggestion from above will add even more rewards on top of that. And I suggested another more immersive system, that would award both types of players here
What if we had a "rumor board" in node taverns. A player can "subscribe" to it and the board will dm that player an interactable list of activities on login.
And those activities are gathered from players who went out to find stuff on their own. And these players can contribute info about their exploration for cosmetic currency (that is, MORE currency than other means of acquisition).
That info would be smth along the lines of "starting npc; general requirements (if any); length of gameplay; reward". And if we ever have quests/tasks that have a cycling reward structure (potentially based on seasons/weather/whatever) - the info would include that stuff as well.
The reward for submitting info would probably be either purely first come first serve, or at least have diminishing returns on subsequent submissions of the same info.
Do you think this could appeal to the BP wanters? And, Dygz, would a system like this interest you in an mmo, as a BP replacement (I'm not talking about Ashes here)?
We're still early on in the game's production. There's been literally 0 fucking talk about BPs. Dygz' only expectation is built on the fact that the BR (which is not an mmo) had one. Designing a BP reward structure right now would most likely take as long as adding what I'm suggesting, except what I'm suggesting doesn't require any new UI, because "rumors" could be included into the bulletin/tavern board as a tab. The "interactive pms to players" thing is something I'll be asking for even outside of this current conversation, because I hope chat is usable in several different ways.
The quest part of my comments was in the context of the free cosmetics that we'll already get as rewards for questing, so having slightly more rewards in those quests or having simpler quests that chain into a cosmetic reward is no different from doing random gameplay for the BP.
How many times do i need to say this YOU CAN DO ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME AND level UP THE BP. You don't need to do weekly or daily content if you don't want to.
And I keep saying that the more days you lose out on - the longer you gotta play on other days, especially if there's any daily/weekly rewards (or let alone bonus rewards based on completing several of them within a period of time, as Fortnite does).
If BPs are endless and with 0 fomo - how is that different from what I'm suggesting above? It's simply a useless UI element that also works outside of the game, if we go with Dygz' assumption that the BP will be account-wide.
It's simply a useless UI element that also works outside of the game, if we go with Dygz' assumption that the BP will be account-wide.
Another funny thing (for me) is that Dygz has multiple times said that he's against features working across several characters (i.e. my suggestion of account-wide PK count), but is completely fine with the BP working for the entire account rather than being per character.
It's simply a useless UI element that also works outside of the game, if we go with Dygz' assumption that the BP will be account-wide.
Another funny thing (for me) is that Dygz has multiple times said that he's against features working across several characters (i.e. my suggestion of account-wide PK count), but is completely fine with the BP working for the entire account rather than being per character.
Because Dygz is generally inconsistent and focused entirely on what triggers the feelings Dygz considers acceptable or correct?
Expecting some sort of specific principled framework here isn't really the best way to approach that personality type...
Well, I've said this so someone else doesn't, so I'll leave this be again.
Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.
You want play metrics to be maintained without the BattlePass, right? How? Ashes isn't structured quite well enough to achieve that as a primary goal, so those who are arguing 'for' a BP are just seeing that.
I feel like you both missed me saying "have every action in the game give you cosmetic currency and then price the cosmetics according to that rate".
This is the same fucking shit that the BP does, except with a different UI.
And as for playtime metrics - I already said as well, tasks will provide replayability with rewards. The cosmetic suggestion from above will add even more rewards on top of that. And I suggested another more immersive system, that would award both types of players here
What if we had a "rumor board" in node taverns. A player can "subscribe" to it and the board will dm that player an interactable list of activities on login.
And those activities are gathered from players who went out to find stuff on their own. And these players can contribute info about their exploration for cosmetic currency (that is, MORE currency than other means of acquisition).
That info would be smth along the lines of "starting npc; general requirements (if any); length of gameplay; reward". And if we ever have quests/tasks that have a cycling reward structure (potentially based on seasons/weather/whatever) - the info would include that stuff as well.
The reward for submitting info would probably be either purely first come first serve, or at least have diminishing returns on subsequent submissions of the same info.
Do you think this could appeal to the BP wanters? And, Dygz, would a system like this interest you in an mmo, as a BP replacement (I'm not talking about Ashes here)?
We're still early on in the game's production. There's been literally 0 fucking talk about BPs. Dygz' only expectation is built on the fact that the BR (which is not an mmo) had one. Designing a BP reward structure right now would most likely take as long as adding what I'm suggesting, except what I'm suggesting doesn't require any new UI, because "rumors" could be included into the bulletin/tavern board as a tab. The "interactive pms to players" thing is something I'll be asking for even outside of this current conversation, because I hope chat is usable in several different ways.
The quest part of my comments was in the context of the free cosmetics that we'll already get as rewards for questing, so having slightly more rewards in those quests or having simpler quests that chain into a cosmetic reward is no different from doing random gameplay for the BP.
How many times do i need to say this YOU CAN DO ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME AND level UP THE BP. You don't need to do weekly or daily content if you don't want to.
And I keep saying that the more days you lose out on - the longer you gotta play on other days, especially if there's any daily/weekly rewards (or let alone bonus rewards based on completing several of them within a period of time, as Fortnite does).
If BPs are endless and with 0 fomo - how is that different from what I'm suggesting above? It's simply a useless UI element that also works outside of the game, if we go with Dygz' assumption that the BP will be account-wide.
I'd rather buy a battle pass than do that system, and i don't even normally buy them...It sounds like a headache . And if i feel like that it be worse for a casual player, they need things that are easy to digest. BP is something they are already use to and can digest / access easily. The battelpass name, and ui can be dressed up however as long as it follows the basic format.
If you are that behind on a battle pass don't buy it, but arguments shouldnt really be around the person took to late and shows up the last 2 weeks before the battle passes ends. Also i already made the argument you can do the wayfinder approach where they don't expire (but can only have one active at a time). Personally when i do BP(free one) i dont look at weekly or daily i just play the game and it levels up.
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
Expecting some sort of specific principled framework here isn't really the best way to approach that personality type...
Yeah, it's a bad combo with my personality type, cause I keep noticing connections between comments/actions and then think to myself that the person is a hypocrite, even when usually they aren't, simply because they either don't remember what they said previously or just have wildly different approaches to details, while I try to always keep an overarching design for things.
That's definitely more of a me problem, which is why I said that it's funny to ME. And I'm sure that I've forgotten things I've said in the past as well, which is my own hypocrisy, which I dislike in myself, which is why I also dislike it in others.
Anyways the Alpha 2 may be longer than we think and you will test.
Is it weird when i say, that i look forward to it with like all my Excitement and Being - and will take great Pride in being part of it, knowing it won't really be "playing" but testing ?
I hope we can make a significant Impact and Difference in helping to cut the Time a little bit shorter by all the Data we can provide with testing.
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
The board subscriber would literally do the same thing he does with the BP. They press a button to sub to the board, as they would to open up the BP. They press a button on login to see their tasks, just as they would with a BP, if they don't know what to do.
This suggestion was in the context of having something for the people who can't come up with a reason for playing the game more often.
The cosmetics rewards would come from doing whatever they want (the rumor board tasks included), just as I said above.
The only higher difficulty would be on the side of those who go out of their way to explore and do quests (people like me), for which they'll receive their own additional rewards.
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
The board subscriber would literally do the same thing he does with the BP. They press a button to sub to the board, as they would to open up the BP. They press a button on login to see their tasks, just as they would with a BP, if they don't know what to do.
This suggestion was in the context of having something for the people who can't come up with a reason for playing the game more often.
The cosmetics rewards would come from doing whatever they want (the rumor board tasks included), just as I said above.
The only higher difficulty would be on the side of those who go out of their way to explore and do quests (people like me), for which they'll receive their own additional rewards.
Ok, so... why are you okay with this and not the BP, other than the fact that the BP can have a cost? If any reason, that is...
Basically, a free BP and a Rumor Board seems to be a UI difference, at this point, right?
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
The board subscriber would literally do the same thing he does with the BP. They press a button to sub to the board, as they would to open up the BP. They press a button on login to see their tasks, just as they would with a BP, if they don't know what to do.
This suggestion was in the context of having something for the people who can't come up with a reason for playing the game more often.
The cosmetics rewards would come from doing whatever they want (the rumor board tasks included), just as I said above.
The only higher difficulty would be on the side of those who go out of their way to explore and do quests (people like me), for which they'll receive their own additional rewards.
If it works the same as BP then just call it a BP, no reason to over dress it or fake it. The way is see it though personally a BP is easier since i don't need to go to a bored. I just open up the UI (which could be dressed up the same as your board) in the store page or wherever it is placed. And accept my rewards, while not having to do a single task if i don't want to. Or they just complete cause they are dead easy from me playing the game however I want.
Again i don't see a BP at launch but down the road. It won't break the game if they add one in. And they still would be needing new content to the game with major expansions and such outfit wise and all.
Basically, a free BP and a Rumor Board seems to be a UI difference, at this point, right?
Yes, to me it's about immersion and how BPs work. And if the BP is different from how they usually work (i.e. DRG's BP) - why have it as a BP when you can just have an mmo with better rewards?
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
The board subscriber would literally do the same thing he does with the BP. They press a button to sub to the board, as they would to open up the BP. They press a button on login to see their tasks, just as they would with a BP, if they don't know what to do.
This suggestion was in the context of having something for the people who can't come up with a reason for playing the game more often.
The cosmetics rewards would come from doing whatever they want (the rumor board tasks included), just as I said above.
The only higher difficulty would be on the side of those who go out of their way to explore and do quests (people like me), for which they'll receive their own additional rewards.
Ok, so... why are you okay with this and not the BP, other than the fact that the BP can have a cost? If any reason, that is...
Basically, a free BP and a Rumor Board seems to be a UI difference, at this point, right?
Im pretty sure he meant (unless im wrong) from my understanding you would pay to sub to the board as well so that would have a cost.
Im pretty sure he meant (unless im wrong) from my understanding you would pay to sub to the board as well so that would have a cost.
No, the board is just there to direct people to content. That's it.
Like I've been saying for 15 damn pages. I want all buyable cosmetics to be given to players as soon as they pay for them. The cost of cosmetics should vary from $1 (if not below) to however much Intrepid want to set the most expensive ones to.
The cosmetic currency I talked about in the previous comments (the one that you get for doing literally anything in the game) would let you buy free cosmetics (the ones that the free BP would've had).
And I also previous suggested having additions to those free cosmetics that you could buy with irl currency. So, for example, a free cosmetic might be a chestplate and the irl currency would let you add an insignia onto that breastplate. This would be just a yet another microtransaction that would let people with less money give their money to Intrepid w/o going for a $10 BP or an expensive cosmetic.
Basically, a free BP and a Rumor Board seems to be a UI difference, at this point, right?
Yes, to me it's about immersion and how BPs work. And if the BP is different from how they usually work (i.e. DRG's BP) - why have it as a BP when you can just have an mmo with better rewards?
Expectation, mostly.
Ofc, note that I'm not complaining at all here because guess what... as usual...
Im pretty sure he meant (unless im wrong) from my understanding you would pay to sub to the board as well so that would have a cost.
No, the board is just there to direct people to content. That's it.
Like I've been saying for 15 damn pages. I want all buyable cosmetics to be given to players as soon as they pay for them. The cost of cosmetics should vary from $1 (if not below) to however much Intrepid want to set the most expensive ones to.
The cosmetic currency I talked about in the previous comments (the one that you get for doing literally anything in the game) would let you buy free cosmetics (the ones that the free BP would've had).
And I also previous suggested having additions to those free cosmetics that you could buy with irl currency. So, for example, a free cosmetic might be a chestplate and the irl currency would let you add an insignia onto that breastplate. This would be just a yet another microtransaction that would let people with less money give their money to Intrepid w/o going for a $10 BP or an expensive cosmetic.
I'm going to be expecting the prices of skin in AoC to be 10$+ and not 1$ or below. With maybe some 3-5 dollar exceptions for tiny none detailed stuff.
Pretty much to just follow the standard for the market, unless for some reason it changes. And not be cycling a board with tons of free cosmetics constantly. That doesn't make any sense to me its either being monetized (in some form battle pass and/or store) or being gear in game that drops from monsters/ etc.
Ofc, note that I'm not complaining at all here because guess what... as usual...
Does ED have a BP? Cause if not, then I'm fucking right yet again, and a good game is already doing what I'm suggesting.
And then a question, if there is in fact no BP: what is the players' attitude towards ED's system and is there any info about the company's earnings in relation to this?
I'm going to be expecting the prices of skin in AoC to be 10$+ and not 1$ or below. With maybe some 3-5 dollar exceptions for tiny none detailed stuff.
But you're completely fine with insanely cheap cosmetics, just only if they're gated behind 100h of gameplay? How is that logical?
And not be cycling a board with tons of free cosmetics constantly. That doesn't make any sense to me its either being monetized (in some form battle pass and/or store) or being gear in game that drops from monsters/ etc.
Again, the board only points towards content. It has no relation to cosmetics or whatever.
In my suggestion cosmetics do not cycle. They simply get added to the store. You get cosmetic currency and buy said cosmetics from that store. The irl money cosmetics also simply get added to the store, at the same prices as BP's cosmetics would cost if sold separately (on top of the more expensive intricate cosmetics).
No fomo, direct purchases, super low costs (just as the BP cosmetics), no changes to player gameplay, no forced gameplay, full player choice of what cosmetic they want to get and when.
How is that worse than the BP and why would you prefer a BP over that?
Ofc, note that I'm not complaining at all here because guess what... as usual...
Does ED have a BP? Cause if not, then I'm fucking right yet again, and a good game is already doing what I'm suggesting.
And then a question, if there is in fact no BP: what is the players' attitude towards ED's system and is there any info about the company's earnings in relation to this?
It didn't work great.
It's now starting to turn P2W due to that, actually, so the news is dominated by the reactions to that.
They never apparently made much money from it, because ED, like Ashes, is not structured for what you're talking about, and would probably have done better with a BattlePass. That's my opinion, though.
An MMORPG with a structure that would make a BattlePass unnecessary would be a great idea. Maybe we will even get one someday.
They never apparently made much money from it, because ED, like Ashes, is not structured for what you're talking about, and would probably have done better with a BattlePass. That's my opinion, though.
Just another proof that I'm a boomer who's stuck in the past then. Wanting a non-predatory, non-exploitative, consumer-friendly feature is useless, because people are more willing to be exploited by a predator than having a better experience.
An MMORPG with a structure that would make a BattlePass unnecessary would be a great idea. Maybe we will even get one someday.
If Riot ever finish their mmo, that might be the way they go. If Gaben decided to make one, there'd be a high chance they went that way too.
At this point I'm relatively sure neither of those things will happen And I'm 100% sure that neither of those games would interest me, so if Ashes does ultimately go with a BP, I'll just suffer through it and hope that it makes Intrepid enough money to not turn the game into a p2w shitshow.
Comments
I'm 100% good with paying more.
Just keep as an MMO offering.
Not structured like a FIFA/NBA2k/Counterstrike offering, that doesn't have a persistent mmo world to use.
Also: Are the BattlePass rewards only good for cosmetics?
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Getting this straight: Posters are saying the BattlePass...
???Players are paying a sub and they will have to pay more to do the BP? Or they will miss out on items and benefits???
That might be the worst mmo idea ever. Fit for failing mmos. >>>Certainly that is a pay-to-win structure.<<<
***Again. Okay with paying. Cost isn't an issue for me (see 3 alpha accounts). Easily will pay 25 a month as a sub, as opposed to doing any BPA$$ hijinx. If its an optional BPA$$, then Ill still pay it, but ill consider Intrepid to fall inline with Smilegate/PearlAbyss/King/Plarium. Which is a short term design.
People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.
you can't say having to play the game is "fing" someone over that makes 0 sense.
Now what games do "f" you over are gotcha games like Honkai Star Rail, genshin impact, Nevertwinter online (p2w plus higher tier cosmetics are faster and loot boxes), etc.
There is no benefits to miss out on we are not talking about p2w we are talking about cosmetics. This is a different discussion if there is special benefits that make the game easier for you and no one is arguing for that.
The different between PA is their outfits were dog crap and it be easier to make the argument that they are trying to "f" people over by making everyone look bad / the same unless they spend money. but in AoC case the gear you get is going to look as good as cosmetics. So that isn't really a issue and again no p2w.
But yes they are both trying to monetize players (like every single other game) but they are going above the standard atm as far as new games are concerned. No p2w and just cosmetics.
Again, if my suggestion was implemented, Intrepid would get the money from people who might not want to buy the BP, but who want a cosmetic from it. If the person is not interested in playing the game for BP reason - they wouldn't pay for it, but they could still be interested in the cosmetics from it and might instead buy those directly.
If instead of having the BP direct people to random content we had in-game system that do that - people who don't care about the BP or cosmetics would spend more time in the game by default.
What I'm suggesting would bring more money to Intrepid and have more people play for longer, all w/o the optics of "this game has a BP", which obviously shades the game in a bad light, as evident by other commenters here who dislike BPs as a sheer concept.
But you keep insisting that BP is somehow more beneficial than what I'm suggesting.
Just Quests have dialogue, take longer to complete than an individual BP Task and you generally get an item for completing one Quest rather than getting a completing a bunch of simple Tasks to get one item.
You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.
Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great
Yes the person needs to pay a sub free to be able to to use items they buy $$$ in the game, how is this even a question.
Intrepid will already get money from people that won't buy the BP because there is going to be a whole market place of items for people to buy from. Your suggestion doesn't do anything except saying IS should sell skins on sale which they will eventually already do.
Intrepid will get money from people that don't normally buy too much or are cheaper and usually use their item as a cost with a BP (which time is minimal as its usually on a casual level).
How many times do i need to say this YOU CAN DO ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME AND level UP THE BP. You don't need to do weekly or daily content if you don't want to.
It will bring money because its industry standard and people are fine with it. Again your suggestion is to sell things dirt cheap and not have the benefits of the battle pass for players that will enjoy the additional progress and or want to simply level one up for the rewards.
Tons of games have a a BP looking at optics doesn't change anything. Players are fine with BP, even more so when there is a free one and they can get a free items and buy it time to time. When we are talking about a cosmetic only BP where u can earn tons of outfits in the game already there is like no negative optics to even consider.
*edit im well aware of what is beneficial. Everything being free with a 15$ sub and no market place is beneficial as well, one time box cost would be super beneficial and tons of people can play im not going to argue what is more beneficial, ill argue what is realistic. A BP is not that big a deal in this situation it is the best case since people can ignore it if they want and it doesn't effect them. And people that want some items for cheap can pick it up or just enjoy that type of gameplay.
Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.
Yeah, NiKr, Mag is right here, though.
A modern BP is 'we will reward you with lower costs or maybe exclusive items for raising our playtime metrics'.
Quests with natural, immersive rewards are the exact opposite of this.
You may not like that, but it's much less immersive overall (EDIT:) to try to make them all fit. Source: BDO, where, despite it being a SinglePlayerMMO where you can more easily justify/immerse their events since you don't need to imagine other people, it's still jarring.
You want play metrics to be maintained without the BattlePass, right? How? Ashes isn't structured quite well enough to achieve that as a primary goal, so those who are arguing 'for' a BP are just seeing that.
This is the same fucking shit that the BP does, except with a different UI.
And as for playtime metrics - I already said as well, tasks will provide replayability with rewards. The cosmetic suggestion from above will add even more rewards on top of that. And I suggested another more immersive system, that would award both types of players here
We're still early on in the game's production. There's been literally 0 fucking talk about BPs. Dygz' only expectation is built on the fact that the BR (which is not an mmo) had one. Designing a BP reward structure right now would most likely take as long as adding what I'm suggesting, except what I'm suggesting doesn't require any new UI, because "rumors" could be included into the bulletin/tavern board as a tab. The "interactive pms to players" thing is something I'll be asking for even outside of this current conversation, because I hope chat is usable in several different ways.
The quest part of my comments was in the context of the free cosmetics that we'll already get as rewards for questing, so having slightly more rewards in those quests or having simpler quests that chain into a cosmetic reward is no different from doing random gameplay for the BP.
And I keep saying that the more days you lose out on - the longer you gotta play on other days, especially if there's any daily/weekly rewards (or let alone bonus rewards based on completing several of them within a period of time, as Fortnite does).
If BPs are endless and with 0 fomo - how is that different from what I'm suggesting above? It's simply a useless UI element that also works outside of the game, if we go with Dygz' assumption that the BP will be account-wide.
Because Dygz is generally inconsistent and focused entirely on what triggers the feelings Dygz considers acceptable or correct?
Expecting some sort of specific principled framework here isn't really the best way to approach that personality type...
Well, I've said this so someone else doesn't, so I'll leave this be again.
I'd rather buy a battle pass than do that system, and i don't even normally buy them...It sounds like a headache . And if i feel like that it be worse for a casual player, they need things that are easy to digest. BP is something they are already use to and can digest / access easily. The battelpass name, and ui can be dressed up however as long as it follows the basic format.
If you are that behind on a battle pass don't buy it, but arguments shouldnt really be around the person took to late and shows up the last 2 weeks before the battle passes ends. Also i already made the argument you can do the wayfinder approach where they don't expire (but can only have one active at a time). Personally when i do BP(free one) i dont look at weekly or daily i just play the game and it levels up.
BP UI element is very easy and quick to digest for people that trying to figure out a new strange system as i said above. You are trying to suggest a bunch of extra work that is not needed. Ro rather than a one pager you have all these other ui elements and things you need to do. Sounds like a hassle and it being over dressed.
That's definitely more of a me problem, which is why I said that it's funny to ME. And I'm sure that I've forgotten things I've said in the past as well, which is my own hypocrisy, which I dislike in myself, which is why I also dislike it in others.
V Rising ? ^.^
Is it weird when i say, that i look forward to it with like all my Excitement and Being - and will take great Pride in being part of it, knowing it won't really be "playing" but testing ?
I hope we can make a significant Impact and Difference in helping to cut the Time a little bit shorter by all the Data we can provide with testing.
This suggestion was in the context of having something for the people who can't come up with a reason for playing the game more often.
The cosmetics rewards would come from doing whatever they want (the rumor board tasks included), just as I said above.
The only higher difficulty would be on the side of those who go out of their way to explore and do quests (people like me), for which they'll receive their own additional rewards.
Ok, so... why are you okay with this and not the BP, other than the fact that the BP can have a cost? If any reason, that is...
Basically, a free BP and a Rumor Board seems to be a UI difference, at this point, right?
If it works the same as BP then just call it a BP, no reason to over dress it or fake it. The way is see it though personally a BP is easier since i don't need to go to a bored. I just open up the UI (which could be dressed up the same as your board) in the store page or wherever it is placed. And accept my rewards, while not having to do a single task if i don't want to. Or they just complete cause they are dead easy from me playing the game however I want.
Again i don't see a BP at launch but down the road. It won't break the game if they add one in. And they still would be needing new content to the game with major expansions and such outfit wise and all.
Im pretty sure he meant (unless im wrong) from my understanding you would pay to sub to the board as well so that would have a cost.
Like I've been saying for 15 damn pages. I want all buyable cosmetics to be given to players as soon as they pay for them. The cost of cosmetics should vary from $1 (if not below) to however much Intrepid want to set the most expensive ones to.
The cosmetic currency I talked about in the previous comments (the one that you get for doing literally anything in the game) would let you buy free cosmetics (the ones that the free BP would've had).
And I also previous suggested having additions to those free cosmetics that you could buy with irl currency. So, for example, a free cosmetic might be a chestplate and the irl currency would let you add an insignia onto that breastplate. This would be just a yet another microtransaction that would let people with less money give their money to Intrepid w/o going for a $10 BP or an expensive cosmetic.
Expectation, mostly.
Ofc, note that I'm not complaining at all here because guess what... as usual...
https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/ARX
I'm going to be expecting the prices of skin in AoC to be 10$+ and not 1$ or below. With maybe some 3-5 dollar exceptions for tiny none detailed stuff.
Pretty much to just follow the standard for the market, unless for some reason it changes. And not be cycling a board with tons of free cosmetics constantly. That doesn't make any sense to me its either being monetized (in some form battle pass and/or store) or being gear in game that drops from monsters/ etc.
And then a question, if there is in fact no BP: what is the players' attitude towards ED's system and is there any info about the company's earnings in relation to this?
Again, the board only points towards content. It has no relation to cosmetics or whatever.
In my suggestion cosmetics do not cycle. They simply get added to the store. You get cosmetic currency and buy said cosmetics from that store. The irl money cosmetics also simply get added to the store, at the same prices as BP's cosmetics would cost if sold separately (on top of the more expensive intricate cosmetics).
No fomo, direct purchases, super low costs (just as the BP cosmetics), no changes to player gameplay, no forced gameplay, full player choice of what cosmetic they want to get and when.
How is that worse than the BP and why would you prefer a BP over that?
It didn't work great.
It's now starting to turn P2W due to that, actually, so the news is dominated by the reactions to that.
They never apparently made much money from it, because ED, like Ashes, is not structured for what you're talking about, and would probably have done better with a BattlePass. That's my opinion, though.
An MMORPG with a structure that would make a BattlePass unnecessary would be a great idea. Maybe we will even get one someday.
Brainwashing working as intended, I guess.
If Riot ever finish their mmo, that might be the way they go. If Gaben decided to make one, there'd be a high chance they went that way too.
At this point I'm relatively sure neither of those things will happen