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Dev Discussion #65 - Camera Perspective

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    MMOLaterMMOLater Member
    ArcheAge and Lineage 2 both of this game have huge camera zoom out and both of this have amazing PVP. My voice to Zoom out long distance if you guys dont do it there will come cheats where ppl will zoom out like in AION so please lets put this in a game and dont give cheaters credit
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    karava401karava401 Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    As others have said - PVP or other high-stakes playing sort of demand zooming all the way out. Anyone not zoomed all the way out is willfully limiting the amount of information they have available to them, which is objectively putting them at a disadvantage.

    That said, I appreciate a 3rd-person camera perspective that's traditional in MMO's, that isn't (or doesn't allow me to) zoomed out so far I can't even make out the details on my character. A closer perspective that doesn't lose sight of the character is critical for immersion, so allowing a reasonable distance of 15-20yds would be a fair compromise (other MMO's let you zoom 50+ yds out).

    Additionally, since this is a tab/action-hybrid combat system, some form of 3rd-person-over-the-shoulder camera would be necessary for aiming in ways that feel more intuitive, though perspective shifting for specific abilities (i.e. hit the "snipe" ability and it goes from your active zoomed-out perspective to a quick over-the-shoulder just to aim and shoot, then returns to zoomed-out) could work.

    Whatever you do, please limit the max zoom distance to not handicap those players who don't wish to sweat-max and have omniscience on the battlefield.

    p.s. - I also love unlocking or disabling the auto-follow so I can freely look and move independently.
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    WreaksauceWreaksauce Member
    edited July 3
    I zoom out in combat and zoom in a bit while walking around in a town or exploring.
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    EdjiEdji Member
    Personally, I play with close-up camera in PvE and a distant one in PvP. I use tab-targeting a lot. The only thing bothering me is the non-disableable tooltip in the game. I'm not asking the rest of the world to adapt to my handicap, but it's annoying when you don't have a choice but to play 'click-to-play'. That's my opinion.

    Cordially,
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    AliandriaAliandria Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I always zoom out as far as is possible to get the wide angle perspective. Really can't stand sticky cameras you can't freely move or camera angles that are off-centre instead of directly behind your character.
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    FalkathFalkath Member
    I'd like to have the ability to zoom out enough to maintain situational awareness, allowing me to see players who might attack me within a few seconds. This means extending the zoom range to be greater than the max range of an archer by an additional 10 to 20 meters for comfort and prevention.

    For shotcallers and raid leaders, having a clear vision of the battlefield would be highly beneficial. While I understand that many players dislike this due to the potential for breaking immersion, it's important to consider that if an extended zoom-out feature isn't available, hardcore PvPers will find a way to implement it, leaving casual players at a disadvantage. It's always preferable for developers to provide these options.

    Even if the maximum zoom-out is quite extensive, not many players will use it because they would miss important details, such as crowd control effects on the ground or nearby enemy animations.
    A good compromise could be a special camera mode that offers an eagle-eye view from about 100 meters above, but with the limitation that you cannot move your character while using it.
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    FaimithFaimith Member
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Camera Perspective: What camera perspective do you prefer in terms of both angle and distance from your character? Do different situations call for different perspectives?

    I appreciate the flexibility of camera perspectives in games. Being able to zoom out for a better overview of my surroundings is crucial, especially in crowded cities with lots of NPCs or when I'm farming for materials. It's also essential during raids with big bosses to get a comprehensive view of the fight. On the other hand, I love being able to zoom in to see my character's face or armor, whether it's for enjoying the detailed design or focusing during chats and interactions with NPCs and other players. Additionally, I prefer when the camera angle is more sideways, like in the Witcher or Horizon series, rather than directly above the character. However, I agree that the zoom-out distance shouldn't be too far to avoid breaking the game's immersion.
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    I like it reasonably zoomed out, cos that way I can see more. If I'm running a group, I want to be able to shout out about mechanics or call shots, and I can't do that when I'm too far zoomed in. I do like to zoom in though, if there's something particularly nice to look at, which you've already proved will happen quite frequently.

    As far as angle goes, I'll generally have it facing forwards so that I can see what I'm running into, but I like to have the option to change it whilst still keeping my movement direction constant.

    Additionally, I really like being able to toggle the UI off so that I can appreciate a view or get a decent screenshot without all the UI bits getting in the way. Would be nice to be able to bind the toggle to a hot-key.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    LumberJakLumberJak Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    As quite a few people have said before, I like options. During normal gameplay I like to be able to zoom out far enough that I can pretend that I'm playing an RTS, but I like to zoom in much further when I'm actively looking for something on the screen, or when I'm in a nice looking city.
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    BlipBlip Member
    edited July 3
    Sometimes close in PvP a bit more zoomed out but should not go too far. When you look like a ant or you are playing micro machines its gone too far.

    Camera should follow character from the back and you can rotate when running standard MMO camera.
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    I recommend not having a linear camera attached to the players head, especially for the zoom in/out. This creates a lot of dead real estate below the feet of the character. It also means that when you zoom out far to view a vista you end up clipping terrain or getting the camera stuck in a tree. Instead consider a tilt and pan camera view which keeps the player at the foot of the screen and pans upwards and backwards over the players head to reveal a further view distance. Think of the camera being on a hinge or the camera being on a neck like a head. When pivoting the camera do not have it statically fixed to the player so you pan around the player just like you currently have it. Have it so that pans around in cinematic style where the camera is either looking to the left, right or above the character depending on which way you want to look. Again think of it as the camera being on a head/neck instead of panning around the character who is fixed to the centre of the screen. The best way I can describe what I mean is to imagine monitors don't exist and we all play in VR. We would look down onto our characters to see what it is doing but then to look left, right and up we would turn our heads. However in the mouse is the "head"...do you get what I mean? Also consider in combat and out of combat cameras.
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    Also consider a different way of thinking when it comes to viewing your own character. For example you want to see what your character looks like in their new fancy armour but you also want to see how it looks when casting spells etc. In traditional games you must do this at a training dummy or in combat in the world environment. Instead consider having the ability to go into a "view character screen" but one in which you can actually use spells and abilities to see what they look like with your new gear etc. This will allow players to view their characters anywhere in the game and on the fly.
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    MaxDemonMaxDemon Member
    just let us adjust it ? Bdo is good example still i hate when people zoom out too much and you can't enjoy the animations and also don't like the side view, it makes the game feel cheap and feel like a mobile game (Throne and liberty) for some reason
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    Large scale pve or pvp, zoomed out. More chill activities or small scale stuff, zoomed in.

    One thing I'd love the option to have is adjusting the height of the camera too for situations where I'm shot calling. This gives a little more of an overhead battlefield view.
    "Divinity is not just Love, Devotion or Purpose. Divinity is the hammer which we use to crush Corruption."
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    FinovFinov Member
    Such a camera as is now in the game is quite suitable
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    FalkathFalkath Member
    I'd like to be able to zoom out enough to have situational awareness of anything that can happen to me, so being able to see on my screen players that could attack me in a few seconds (so more than the max range of an archer + 10 to 20m for confort and prevention)
    Then for shotcallers and raid leaders having a vision of the battlefield would be quite nice even if i can understand a lot of people dislike it because it breaks immersion. The problem is that if this bigger zoom out isn't available at all, hardcore pvpers will find a way to get one while more casuals won't. Always better to have the devs give us the maximum options.
    Even if the max zoom out is quite far not a lot of players will use it because they'd miss out on important details like CC on the ground or seeing the close ennemies animations.
    A good middle ground would be to have a special camera mode to see the area above us (like 100m) as an eagle eye but you are unable to move your character then.
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 3
    In A1 (and in the current dev streams) the max zoom out distance was way too far. It seriously negatively affected how connected to the game and environment you felt. People will zoom to the max for competitive reasons, so please limit that distance way more than it currently is, so the playing field is even without also hurting the game.

    Just to reiterate, the difference in feeling and immersion in A1 when playing with max zoom out versus a more zoomed in camera like we see in other MMORPGs was absolutely massive. Like almost two different games in feel. I found it to be a huge issue actually, and reported on it back then too. If you want player retention, don't let us zoom out as much.
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    SnekkersSnekkers Member
    I prefer to play zoomed-in, not entirely zoomed-in, but more in than out. But sadly zoom distance is not an option, so im always forced to play at max zoom, thats why i personally prefer that max zoom is somewhat close, so you have to have battefield awarness and also gmae doesnt look like strategy game from wish.com
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    When playing a game where I need to react to what opponents are doing or wearing, which is almost always, then I zoom in more than enough to see that, but not so much as to be wearing blinders. In a reactive game, zooming out too much is death.

    I find zoomed in style of play more immersive and agree with earlier posts that mention 'immersion'.

    That being said I find access to a couple of zoom levels useful. Short term zoom out for quick overall perspective, or when travelling, then returning to a more 'reactive ready' state generally.

    Camera positioning wrt character is not as important, unless a shooter game where peek advantage can come into play (eg: right hand peak).
    Casually Serious.
    LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
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    OtrOtr Member
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Camera Perspective: What camera perspective do you prefer in terms of both angle and distance from your character? Do different situations call for different perspectives?

    I prefer first person.
    I know AoC is 3rd person therefore a close camera is preferable for me.
    I do NOT like to be able to zoom out a lot. That would make me want to play some other kind of games. So better restrict zoom out distance and ask again during Alpha 2, when I might actually change my mind.
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    RealArtworkRealArtwork Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    i am almost always zoomed out. i think if you arent cassual playing nothing else is viable
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    MagosMagos Member
    I think that customization is king when it comes to perspective and camera settings. Flexibility in camera angles and distances allows players to tailor their experience to their preferences and playstyle.

    Immersion and Practicality: Having a good amount of distance when zooming out is mandatory for situational awareness, especially during intense battles. However, this distance shouldn't be excessive, as it could break immersion. The balance is crucial: maintain enough zoom to appreciate the game's beauty and detail while ensuring practical gameplay. Also, I think that it’s important that the camera doesn't clip through models or terrain to preserve the visual integrity of the world.

    Role-Playing Enhancements: For the dedicated role-players, I would love to see an option to experience the world through different camera perspectives. Imagine having a "cameraman" mode where you can record your surroundings without your character appearing on screen. This would be perfect for creating immersive stories, capturing the environment's beauty, and sharing unique in-game moments without the distraction of your character being in the frame.

    Advanced Recording Features: Another feature that would be fantastic is a robust recording system, akin to what Lineage2 had. The ability to replay recordings as if you were experiencing them live again opens up a world of possibilities. Such a system would be invaluable for encounter analysis, creating cinematic content, and sharing gameplay highlights. A free-floating camera in these replays would allow players to navigate and explore the recorded events from various angles within a limited area, providing a comprehensive tool for content creators and strategists alike.

    Ultimately, the more options players have, the richer our experience will be.

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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited July 3
    Since AoC will have a soft target lock that requires you to turn around and look in the direction you want to target lock, then you gotta go with zoomed in!

    Not even hard deciding for this.

    Advantages of zoomed in for AoC:
    1. soft lock will go through smoothly and feel natural
    2. it's more immersive
    3. you can see how good the people's gears and mounts look since Intrepid is putting a lot of effort on making stuff look good
    4. if the animations are good then people will enjoy the game more
    5. makes the world feel bigger and the castles would seem more epic, feeling small near a wall or a castle gives good vibes on people, zoomed out would steal this experience from them

    Even tough I love playing games zoomed out, I think in AoC the game will be more epic, more enjoyabe and will be easier to soft lock with a zoomed in perspective
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    LeGahSeeLeGahSee Member
    This is my first post on this forum but perspective is a big issue i find in mmos most of the time the ability to zoom out to almost moba style gameplay is kinda like giving and unfair advantage to people who dont like to be that far away from their character as it give you more awareness and i think setting the max zoom to be not incredibly far like some of these other mmos would be a good balance between keeping it competitive between both type of styles as this is a PVX game and PVP plays a big part in the in the this world i think keeping the playing field as fair as possible should be honored in a PVE game it doesnt matter as much but once you add competitive advantage the game is no longer competitive and will become who has the best settings possible to play the game more effectively i think limiting these settings would benefit everyone in the long run honestly this is just my opinion and i do play both ways far away and close but i do think zooming out so far is kinda over powered
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    RaisingzRaisingz Member
    My suggestion:

    - Add vertical FOV slider (enabling it to go down to 0 would make it similar to first person, could be cool for some screenshots, not sure about technical viability);
    - Allow for zooming out for enough distance to view a raid of 15-20 people, more than could be considered a competitive advantage and lose detail;
    - Allow zooming in for roleplay/detail moments.

    Optional QOL:
    - Allow optional camera focusing on a party member / enemy / mob. As a healer, it could help me keep track of my priority target to heal, or focus on an enemy assassin trying to get closer to me.
    - Add a reset zoom keybinding to quickly go back to the default distance if needed.
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    FlareFlare Member, Founder
    I am very used to the camera angles used in games like BDO or Monster Hunter World, and I think they're great.
    Personally, I am against the zoom-out meta. Zooming out to the stratosphere is undoubtedly the most advantageous strategy, but I don't like it. I'll do it if I have to, since it's a disadvantage if everyone else does it in PVP and you don't.
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    edited July 3
    Casual camera angle, zoomed in behind your character. Would love to see more camera footage like that in future showcases. Lately it's been angled from far above that gives that mobile game feel, which is not my personal preference.

    I do want there to be a hard cap for how much you can zoom out.
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    As long as its not zoomed out so much that your character is a size of a thumb, its all good.
    Whats more important to me is camera moving with your mouse movement. Holding right click to rotate your camera is so archaic.
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    OrbificatorOrbificator Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Closer to myself and somewhat over-the-shoulder. With the ability to move the camera vertically and horizontally, I can put the camera exactly where I want.

    The only time I zoom out is when I have no choice but to due to game design. This typically occurs in dungeons or raids and PvP.

    I don't ever expect this, but the First Person that ESO has is also something I love.
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    CrazedlyCrazedly Member
    As a tank, I definitely need the ability to zoom out to enjoy fighting a boss, not just a toe.
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