3rd Person perspective should have have full camera position control along with zoom in - zoom out, max distance should be reasonable (probably different for everybody - testing will help). 1st Person perspective should always be available as the most zoom in position with only having to use the mouse and mouse wheel to achieve desired use.
Plutôt intéressant tant que le dezoom reste dans des mesure correct, sinon peut être que les joueurs qui on des écrans démesuré avec une résolution poussé auront un net avantage sur la perception possible des allentours de leurs personnages .
TLDR:Ashes Of Creation as a modern MMORPG ABSOLUTELY MUST retain the camera perspectives that it demonstrated when it was first announced or as close to it as possible.
Players should be close into their character as much as possible with some wiggle room and never too high, with even a few , limited options for first person.)
Immersion has always been a goal for AoC, to provide a modern experience where you can be a merchant traveling across nodes safely to set up shop for preparation of higher demand of goods or a soldier thrown into the chaos of combat and Siege War Or a simple farmer tending to crops in your stronghold and even a tavern keeper giving a round of ale. The ultimate goal for AoC is to put you directly into those roles and to become and experience them.
I believe the best driving factor to accomplish this is through the power of perspective. which I think Ashes of Creation is currently creeping away from in terms of the relationship between its camera perspectives now, and the experience that it demonstrated to us in the past.
The mistake I believe AoC is making is the fact that they want to build an MMORPG so they pick the camera perspective that old-school MMO's did in the past. (Zoomed out, tons of UI on the screen, with options to zoom in if you want.)
Once a camera is zoomed all the way out it no longer is an immersive experience but a strategic rush to gather info and respond. The game is transformed into a live tabletop simulation of pieces, drawing focus to the constant changing UI and camera management rather than the clashing battle before you.
I personally have never been immersed in a game where you can zoom out for a fight and taking me out of the game unless it was for a better scenic view or camera capture.
Ashes of Creation must always be mindful of this and working towards the camera perspectives that provide the most immersion to its players. As the benefits of immersion is providing a sense of attachment to the world and objects you collect as well as making accomplishments feel more real.
Ashes of Creation is noticed across the gaming industry for being dynamic and ever changing. I've always expected AoC to have a modern and refreshing experience. But the current perspectives are clashing with these ideas and experiences. Intrepid should continue to ask themselves more questions on this topic and refine this important aspect of game development.
I've been frustrated in the past if I'm in third-person with the camera on the floor looking up (an "upskirt shot", if you will) to have much of the screen obstructed by the character. In this case, the only way to get an unobstructed shot of whatever is above you is to go first-person and angle the camera upward. That however, would place the camera at head-height, not ground-height. I would like to see the capability for the character to become transparent in this camera position.
...
I have played games where the camera has been programmed to be in the incorrect position on the character's body while in first-person. One would zoom in from the back of the head and suddenly go from right behind the head to mouth-level, neck-level, or body level; and it was just...really annoying. I hope consideration will be taken to assure the camera in first-person is actually where the eyes would be on the character.
I'm a big fan of Final Fantasy 14's camera customizability. Especially the ability to change the camera's projected focal point using ctrl + up and ctrl + down to change the camera's focal point projection distance from the character. I change to more of a horizon focal point when facing large bosses so I can see a tall boss' HP bar above their head and to read the boss mechanic tells better. Then I change it back to have a more bird's eye (closer focal point projection) view when killing trash packs. The focal projection point control is in addition to the standard camera pitch control.
In short:
For tall things,
a distant focal point and pitched up for a horizon view from almost the character's perspective,
For grinding and trash packs,
close focal point and pitched down for a bird's eye view to make it easier to position for landing close range melee AoE skills.
MMO game cameras in general I prefer:
- 3rd person
- camera's focal point projected on the ground a meter or two in front of my character in most scenarios
- camera's focal point projected on the ground closer to the horizon line when wanting to see tall things
- camera's position maintains a higher height than distance ratio relative to the character's world position
- camera keeps character in horizontal middle of screen
- camera keeps character vertically in lower 3rd of screen
When not manually inputting camera controls:
- camera uses a smooth pan to follow the direction and facing of my character.
I like to manually control the pitch and rotation of a camera manually while holding the right mouse button.
Zoom preferences:
Closest zoom shows roughly a character's top of shoulders plus head taking up lower vertical 1/3rd of screen and middle horizontal 1/3rd of screen.
Farthest zoom shows the entire character taking up the upper half of the lower 3rd of the screen's vertical where the bottom of the character's feet are 1/6th a screen up from the bottom of the screen and the top of the head is 1/3rd a screen up from the bottom of the screen. Horizontal still has the character in the middle and scaled proportionally to meet the vertical constraints.
Whatever works for pvp. Been using the Over The Shoulder angle myself in ESO and even in WoW via some addons.
Zoomed out cameras in PVP work in large, spacious, open fields. The organised tactical groups will never fight in areas they can be kited. And any 1vX person knows it in their bones how "Zoomed Out Zoomers" get disoriented the moment they get forced under a doorway and you just juke away from them and they just cannot follow you, cause their camera jumps back and forth constantly.
If I would suggest something for our otherwise impaired Zoomed Out Zoomers, would be the devs to add a smart camera shift option to Over the Shoulder when inside buildings.
I wanted to share my thoughts, and realized it's just more of a correlation between Intrepids design choices regarding add-on denial and camera zoom.
A LOT of people want add-ons, specifically damage meters. Intrepid is creating AoC with no community-created add-ons because they believe it retracts from what they want players to experience. That is, specifically, being railroaded into doing things players are not truly engaged with.
Camera perspective can also be aligned with this same train of thought, with camera zoom being almost orbital, players can min-max their actions with little regard to what they actually would do given a limited view. It is almost the same exact argument against add-ons.
Does Intrepid want the game to be difficult and punishing? Absolutely. Risk and reward is a keystone in their development. Does an almost hot-air-balloon level camera view provide any risk whatsoever? Absolutely not. Players will learn to abuse an obvious advantage and convince themselves it is the only way to play because of the reward, an almost police-helicopter in the sky with vantage over everything.
This is a snowball problem, with a clouds perspective, you lose sight of the detail that Intrepid is creating with armor, character models, unique pets, the list goes on.
I would somehow link zoom to the level of luminance in an area, well-lit, open battlefields should have an appropriate level hover with a higher ceiling zoom 'limit', whereas a dark and dingy dungeon would have an almost Lakitu, over the shoulder camera, akin to Mario looking in a mirror with a lower ceiling zoom 'limit' but still adjustable within that range.
Immersion into a game world is what we all want, it's the unifying factor across every single player and I think it's important to make sure players are not railroaded into a choice just because it is "the best" choice.
There's so many reasons for different levels of camera angle and zoom. I like a wide range of customization options, maybe even some kinda wild stuff like hotkeys for increasing or decreasing FoV or having FoV change relative to pitch and zoom. If I want to be in the commander view, I'd want it up and back and wide so I can see as far as my character can see unobstructed, though with some weakness under archways and bridges and such that may require me to change the angle here and there. Likewise if I'm platforming, I'll want the view closer and tidier with a narrower FoV so there's less proportional disorientation when I'm trying to land precise jumps. both up and back or closer and beside might be good for climbing a steep area with class-specific climbing functionality, etc.
But the real sauce is going beyond a camera mode and adding a secondary camera that can go on an additional monitor or a virtual monitor that a streamer can use. This additional window or virtual monitor can have a different angle or configuration that looks better / more cinematic than the useful gameplay angles. UI can be completely turned off, or selectively left on in case parts of nameplates are desired to demonstrate what's going on a bit, but ultimately this can be done to allow streamers to have a "give less info away/record more pretty and cinematic gameplay" version of what they broadcast. As a nice touch, it could be made optional that dialogue between characters is shown at the bottom as subtitles, so it can have almost a "silent movie" feeling. If you add data hookups that correlate race/gender/other details of the speaker alongside these dialogue lines, streamers could utilize text to speech systems to add a voice to the dialogue. Yes this is a ton of tech, yes I realize this game has to release some day, but I bet there's room to fit it in between now and launch if there's a priority to make it the most comfortably streamable game possible with the cleanest gameplay videos!
BDO has the best camera angle from games I've played. It's slightly off center. Any way you do it, people will get used to it though. As long as it's not super zoomed in.
BDO (Black Desert) tem umas das melhores câmeras de jogo. Particurlamente prefiro MMORPG "Action Target."
My first MMO was Everquest. While you could change to third person camera perspective in EQ, I prefered first person back then. It is way more immersive.
As for situational awareness, that comes down to habit of looking around. In some situations, it was highly beneficial to be in first person. Pulling in dungeons was among these.
I have played a range of MMO's since, and changed between first and third in all of these games. I know one thing for certain; third person camera should be something the player sets themselves, and there should absolutely be a limit to max zoom out distance. If I had my way, it should be far enough out to see your entire character, and that is about it.
Fighting from a birds eye perspective (can) give unfair advantage.
When zoomed in, for more intimate, immersive story content? 3rd person, over the shoulder perspective, a la God of War.
When in competive PVP, or some Raid-like content? Zoomed out slightly off-centre, sort of like a distant over the shoulder.
I feel that Elder Scrolls Online has it's flaws, but one thing it really gets right is the camera, it also gives you the flexibility to have it directly overhead (so it's got the best of both worlds), change what shoulder you're looking over, and feels quite fluid.
Zoomed out pretty far with the angle in a way that I can see both in front of and behind me. It's okay to see better in front of you than behind you, but you need to be able to see a rogue behind you. Generally, the camera angle and distance should be adjustable as much as possible because it's hard to make one angle that satisfies everybody.
BDO has the best camera angle from games I've played. It's slightly off center. Any way you do it, people will get used to it though. As long as it's not super zoomed in.
BDO (Black Desert) tem umas das melhores câmeras de jogo. Particurlamente prefiro MMORPG "Action Target."
dude none is going to use google translate for a forum post.
0
DELORINMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 24
I really dislike some games where we can zoom out so much that we are sometimes looking like we are in a world builder game instead of the smaller POV. The fact that for some game that's not taken into consideration and more of a player convince so they can "see" the battle field better but isn't the awareness part be about communicating with your team and looking around more be part of the players skill? Player needs to be aware of their surrounding and that's by looking around and not zooming out your camera.
I do hope they set a limit for everyone and it won't just be fully zoom out to optimize the battles, what's the point of having stealth when I can see you from 10 miles away.
I play Archeage and hated the fact that you can customize how far I can zoom out. If they really want to add camera zoom out maybe add it for a class that are range where they can temporarily increase their camera zoom out (maybe some perception increase or maybe they are using their hawk to have a better view).
And additional notes: if you are watching a video of someone pvping and their camera is all the way zoom out I just don't watch it (bad watching experience, just take a look at Archeage pvp videos and you will see), all in seeing is a tiny spec of the player and health bars, might as well play the sims
I really dislike some games where we can zoom out so much that we are sometimes looking like we are in a world builder game instead of the smaller POV. The fact that for some game that's not taken into consideration and more of a player convince so they can "see" the battle field better but isn't the awareness part be about communicating with your team and looking around more be part of the players skill? Player needs to be aware of their surrounding and that's by looking around and not zooming out your camera.
I do hope they set a limit for everyone and it won't just be fully zoom out to optimize the battles, what's the point of having stealth when I can see you from 10 miles away.
I play Archeage and hated the fact that you can customize how far I can zoom out. If they really want to add camera zoom out maybe add it for a class that are range where they can temporarily increase their camera zoom out (maybe some perception increase or maybe they are using their hawk to have a better view).
And additional notes: if you are watching a video of someone pvping and their camera is all the way zoom out I just don't watch it (bad watching experience, just take a look at Archeage pvp videos and you will see), all in seeing is a tiny spec of the player and health bars, might as well play the sims
While I understand the thought, I think in reality it just feels bad to have the camera close in third person because most of your screen gets taken up by your character, which is just dumb as it gives you no useful combat information. So you're basically stuck with either third person and allowing the camera to zoom out so your character doesn't take up half of your screen and you can actually see something and have interesting battles, or first person, where the whole screen gives you useful information, but you can only see in front of you. First person is great; it just feels really bad in MMOs. Especially in a 500 vs. 500 battle with AoEs, blinks, dragons, etc., it would be a much worse experience in first person.
For the empyre !!!
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DELORINMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I really dislike some games where we can zoom out so much that we are sometimes looking like we are in a world builder game instead of the smaller POV. The fact that for some game that's not taken into consideration and more of a player convince so they can "see" the battle field better but isn't the awareness part be about communicating with your team and looking around more be part of the players skill? Player needs to be aware of their surrounding and that's by looking around and not zooming out your camera.
I do hope they set a limit for everyone and it won't just be fully zoom out to optimize the battles, what's the point of having stealth when I can see you from 10 miles away.
I play Archeage and hated the fact that you can customize how far I can zoom out. If they really want to add camera zoom out maybe add it for a class that are range where they can temporarily increase their camera zoom out (maybe some perception increase or maybe they are using their hawk to have a better view).
And additional notes: if you are watching a video of someone pvping and their camera is all the way zoom out I just don't watch it (bad watching experience, just take a look at Archeage pvp videos and you will see), all in seeing is a tiny spec of the player and health bars, might as well play the sims
While I understand the thought, I think in reality it just feels bad to have the camera close in third person because most of your screen gets taken up by your character, which is just dumb as it gives you no useful combat information. So you're basically stuck with either third person and allowing the camera to zoom out so your character doesn't take up half of your screen and you can actually see something and have interesting battles, or first person, where the whole screen gives you useful information, but you can only see in front of you. First person is great; it just feels really bad in MMOs. Especially in a 500 vs. 500 battle with AoEs, blinks, dragons, etc., it would be a much worse experience in first person.
Third Person is of course the way to go, I'm not saying that it should be in first person (that will feel bad)
It should be a reasonable distance between you and the character, and the zoom out function should have a limit and not just for best PVP factor.
I'll use AA as an example
E.g.
Something like this, maybe zoom out a little bit ^
Below, What I don't want is this
How can one even sneak a caravan if you can just zoom out so much that you can see someone from over the hill? shouldn't the caravan have a scout to check ahead or just around the vicinity?
give as X-Y axis slider in the options and a reset to default position hotkey. not sure why games cant have multiple angles.
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uzialMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Above behind and right. But i like the ability to zoom in and out and change the camera angle and position, by holding the right mouse button then releasing it where i want it.
The ability to quickly reset it to default is important as well.
3 options: fixed third person, 1st person, 3rd person “look”
Fixed third person
Ability to move it and lock it into place so I can snap. Ideally, multiple views that I can keybind. Not too much zoom out in this view. I think the “behind” view capability should be just out of range for melee closers at max range…
1st person
I still like a good first person zoom when not pvp. Walking through cities, crafting, sightseeing is nicer in first person imo. Also, for the jump challenges, sometimes a change in perspective is good. Also for an additional challenge you could lock first person for certain challenges;) that would mess a bunch of people up. Again a keybind of some kind.
3rd person look
A 3rd person view where uyou can look around to gain perspective of your surroundings but the look function is driven real time by the mouse so movement is limited( or lock movement )Makes it not viable for pvp. Allow for more zoom out. The purpose here is to gain perspective about area. Cites or dungeons.
Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.
Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!
Dev Discussion - Camera Perspective
Camera Perspective: What camera perspective do you prefer in terms of both angle and distance from your character? Do different situations call for different perspectives?
Bit late to the party but I'll give my two cents. In my experience I tend to find that when I'm doing idle things like tending to crops, fishing, crafting or just wondering round a town I'll be zoomed in to a more immersive experienced camera. However, whenever I am in a combat situation or exploring the open world I will pretty always be zoomed out enough that I can see my character well enough but I'm far enough away that I'm not at a disadvantage during combat.
For example if I am doing PvP I would would want to be pretty zoomed out and have my character take up let's say roughly 10% of the middle of my screen (guesstimating that figure), this way I will be able to see any on coming mechanics and have plenty of time to ready myself. As for PvP it would be the same sort of thing, I'd want to be able to see where everyone within my vacinity is that could reach me with abilities so I can adjust myself accordingly.
Very much prefer zooming out having a pretty limited distance. In PvE, it doesn't matter because you're not competing with other players, but in PvP, players who want to zoom all the way out get a lot of advantages in terms of situational awareness and even things like seeing over obstacles, but... it looks like trash and is a lot less immersive. WoW, GW2, TL, just most modern MMOs seem to have this approach of giving you an insane amount of zoom out distance, and I really hate it.
Barring fairness issues with pvp, I think cameras benefit a TON from having lots of settings. Cameras are not one-size-fits-all and are likely to highly annoy people if it’s different from what they want. Look how many camera settings GW2 has for example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Options#Camera
They let you set your max zoom, min zoom, rotation sens, zoom sens, and a bunch of other things. Really just need an X and Y offset and it’d be perfect imo. For large scale boss areas where visibility is important, it changes your max zoom to wayyyyy out so you can see what’s going on, which is great.
Personally, I’ve yet to find an RPG where I’m not zoomed all the way out, so for me I just hope it isn’t too close. I also like to actually see what’s in front of me though, so I don’t want that zoomed out position to angle too far downwards. But I think above all players should be allowed to customize their camera, because others might not agree with my preference.
I would love being able to customize it to my needs on the fly. Going from first person for RP and cool scenery to really zoomed out so I can see the whole raid would be perfect.
As much as I like having the ability to zoom out insanely far for competitive combat reasons, I don't want to be allowed to do it.
MMOs that allow cameras too zoom out too far ruin immersion for me. Zoomed-out MMOs do not feel like real worlds to me. They end up feeling like set pieces filled with miniatures.
Playing classic FF11 over the past year has recently made me realize how important this is. I would encourage the devs to rewatch some footage of that game to serve as an example of how a more zoomed-in no-topdown camera might actually feel good. Just walking around town in that game is a treat. The world in that game feels like an actual place when you play, and it's pretty much all because of the camera. I've tested out FF11 camera mods that allow you to zoom out further, and it really does take away all of the "this is an actual place" magic of the game.
Ashes' faster pvp combat might require the camera to be a little more zoomed out, but nonetheless, FF11 serves as a shining example of how important a zoom limit is for ensuring MMO world immersion.
1
MorashtakMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Not too close, not too far - A reasonable distance with an on-the-fly option to change it from somewhat close to somewhat far and anywhere in between.
Just, please, get the camera mechanic correctly programmed for the vast majority of situations; no one likes to have constant boss battles with the camera angle and zoom.
Comments
Players should be close into their character as much as possible with some wiggle room and never too high, with even a few , limited options for first person.)
Immersion has always been a goal for AoC, to provide a modern experience where you can be a merchant traveling across nodes safely to set up shop for preparation of higher demand of goods or a soldier thrown into the chaos of combat and Siege War Or a simple farmer tending to crops in your stronghold and even a tavern keeper giving a round of ale. The ultimate goal for AoC is to put you directly into those roles and to become and experience them.
I believe the best driving factor to accomplish this is through the power of perspective. which I think Ashes of Creation is currently creeping away from in terms of the relationship between its camera perspectives now, and the experience that it demonstrated to us in the past.
The mistake I believe AoC is making is the fact that they want to build an MMORPG so they pick the camera perspective that old-school MMO's did in the past. (Zoomed out, tons of UI on the screen, with options to zoom in if you want.)
Once a camera is zoomed all the way out it no longer is an immersive experience but a strategic rush to gather info and respond. The game is transformed into a live tabletop simulation of pieces, drawing focus to the constant changing UI and camera management rather than the clashing battle before you.
I personally have never been immersed in a game where you can zoom out for a fight and taking me out of the game unless it was for a better scenic view or camera capture.
Ashes of Creation must always be mindful of this and working towards the camera perspectives that provide the most immersion to its players. As the benefits of immersion is providing a sense of attachment to the world and objects you collect as well as making accomplishments feel more real.
Here are a few Modern MMO experiences that provide these perspectives:
SOULFRAME, The Quinfall, Blue Protocol for that tavern experience, Once Human, Throne and Liberty, Probably the most I'd have it zoomed out.
Tell me which do you prefer for your experience the examples above?
Or this...
Ashes of Creation now
Ashes of Creation is noticed across the gaming industry for being dynamic and ever changing. I've always expected AoC to have a modern and refreshing experience. But the current perspectives are clashing with these ideas and experiences. Intrepid should continue to ask themselves more questions on this topic and refine this important aspect of game development.
X and Y sliders
If possible, a "Shoulder Swap" hotkey that inverses the X value, in case you're using an over-the-shoulder angle, would be awesome!
...
I have played games where the camera has been programmed to be in the incorrect position on the character's body while in first-person. One would zoom in from the back of the head and suddenly go from right behind the head to mouth-level, neck-level, or body level; and it was just...really annoying. I hope consideration will be taken to assure the camera in first-person is actually where the eyes would be on the character.
In short:
For tall things,
a distant focal point and pitched up for a horizon view from almost the character's perspective,
For grinding and trash packs,
close focal point and pitched down for a bird's eye view to make it easier to position for landing close range melee AoE skills.
I like to manually control the pitch and rotation of a camera manually while holding the right mouse button.
Zoom preferences:
Closest zoom shows roughly a character's top of shoulders plus head taking up lower vertical 1/3rd of screen and middle horizontal 1/3rd of screen.
Farthest zoom shows the entire character taking up the upper half of the lower 3rd of the screen's vertical where the bottom of the character's feet are 1/6th a screen up from the bottom of the screen and the top of the head is 1/3rd a screen up from the bottom of the screen. Horizontal still has the character in the middle and scaled proportionally to meet the vertical constraints.
Zoomed out cameras in PVP work in large, spacious, open fields. The organised tactical groups will never fight in areas they can be kited. And any 1vX person knows it in their bones how "Zoomed Out Zoomers" get disoriented the moment they get forced under a doorway and you just juke away from them and they just cannot follow you, cause their camera jumps back and forth constantly.
If I would suggest something for our otherwise impaired Zoomed Out Zoomers, would be the devs to add a smart camera shift option to Over the Shoulder when inside buildings.
A LOT of people want add-ons, specifically damage meters. Intrepid is creating AoC with no community-created add-ons because they believe it retracts from what they want players to experience. That is, specifically, being railroaded into doing things players are not truly engaged with.
Camera perspective can also be aligned with this same train of thought, with camera zoom being almost orbital, players can min-max their actions with little regard to what they actually would do given a limited view. It is almost the same exact argument against add-ons.
Does Intrepid want the game to be difficult and punishing? Absolutely. Risk and reward is a keystone in their development. Does an almost hot-air-balloon level camera view provide any risk whatsoever? Absolutely not. Players will learn to abuse an obvious advantage and convince themselves it is the only way to play because of the reward, an almost police-helicopter in the sky with vantage over everything.
This is a snowball problem, with a clouds perspective, you lose sight of the detail that Intrepid is creating with armor, character models, unique pets, the list goes on.
I would somehow link zoom to the level of luminance in an area, well-lit, open battlefields should have an appropriate level hover with a higher ceiling zoom 'limit', whereas a dark and dingy dungeon would have an almost Lakitu, over the shoulder camera, akin to Mario looking in a mirror with a lower ceiling zoom 'limit' but still adjustable within that range.
Immersion into a game world is what we all want, it's the unifying factor across every single player and I think it's important to make sure players are not railroaded into a choice just because it is "the best" choice.
But the real sauce is going beyond a camera mode and adding a secondary camera that can go on an additional monitor or a virtual monitor that a streamer can use. This additional window or virtual monitor can have a different angle or configuration that looks better / more cinematic than the useful gameplay angles. UI can be completely turned off, or selectively left on in case parts of nameplates are desired to demonstrate what's going on a bit, but ultimately this can be done to allow streamers to have a "give less info away/record more pretty and cinematic gameplay" version of what they broadcast. As a nice touch, it could be made optional that dialogue between characters is shown at the bottom as subtitles, so it can have almost a "silent movie" feeling. If you add data hookups that correlate race/gender/other details of the speaker alongside these dialogue lines, streamers could utilize text to speech systems to add a voice to the dialogue. Yes this is a ton of tech, yes I realize this game has to release some day, but I bet there's room to fit it in between now and launch if there's a priority to make it the most comfortably streamable game possible with the cleanest gameplay videos!
BDO (Black Desert) tem umas das melhores câmeras de jogo. Particurlamente prefiro MMORPG "Action Target."
My first MMO was Everquest. While you could change to third person camera perspective in EQ, I prefered first person back then. It is way more immersive.
As for situational awareness, that comes down to habit of looking around. In some situations, it was highly beneficial to be in first person. Pulling in dungeons was among these.
I have played a range of MMO's since, and changed between first and third in all of these games. I know one thing for certain; third person camera should be something the player sets themselves, and there should absolutely be a limit to max zoom out distance. If I had my way, it should be far enough out to see your entire character, and that is about it.
Fighting from a birds eye perspective (can) give unfair advantage.
When in competive PVP, or some Raid-like content? Zoomed out slightly off-centre, sort of like a distant over the shoulder.
I feel that Elder Scrolls Online has it's flaws, but one thing it really gets right is the camera, it also gives you the flexibility to have it directly overhead (so it's got the best of both worlds), change what shoulder you're looking over, and feels quite fluid.
dude none is going to use google translate for a forum post.
I do hope they set a limit for everyone and it won't just be fully zoom out to optimize the battles, what's the point of having stealth when I can see you from 10 miles away.
I play Archeage and hated the fact that you can customize how far I can zoom out. If they really want to add camera zoom out maybe add it for a class that are range where they can temporarily increase their camera zoom out (maybe some perception increase or maybe they are using their hawk to have a better view).
And additional notes: if you are watching a video of someone pvping and their camera is all the way zoom out I just don't watch it (bad watching experience, just take a look at Archeage pvp videos and you will see), all in seeing is a tiny spec of the player and health bars, might as well play the sims
While I understand the thought, I think in reality it just feels bad to have the camera close in third person because most of your screen gets taken up by your character, which is just dumb as it gives you no useful combat information. So you're basically stuck with either third person and allowing the camera to zoom out so your character doesn't take up half of your screen and you can actually see something and have interesting battles, or first person, where the whole screen gives you useful information, but you can only see in front of you. First person is great; it just feels really bad in MMOs. Especially in a 500 vs. 500 battle with AoEs, blinks, dragons, etc., it would be a much worse experience in first person.
Third Person is of course the way to go, I'm not saying that it should be in first person (that will feel bad)
It should be a reasonable distance between you and the character, and the zoom out function should have a limit and not just for best PVP factor.
I'll use AA as an example
E.g.
Something like this, maybe zoom out a little bit ^
Below, What I don't want is this
How can one even sneak a caravan if you can just zoom out so much that you can see someone from over the hill? shouldn't the caravan have a scout to check ahead or just around the vicinity?
The ability to quickly reset it to default is important as well.
Fixed third person
Ability to move it and lock it into place so I can snap. Ideally, multiple views that I can keybind. Not too much zoom out in this view. I think the “behind” view capability should be just out of range for melee closers at max range…
1st person
I still like a good first person zoom when not pvp. Walking through cities, crafting, sightseeing is nicer in first person imo. Also, for the jump challenges, sometimes a change in perspective is good. Also for an additional challenge you could lock first person for certain challenges;) that would mess a bunch of people up. Again a keybind of some kind.
3rd person look
A 3rd person view where uyou can look around to gain perspective of your surroundings but the look function is driven real time by the mouse so movement is limited( or lock movement )Makes it not viable for pvp. Allow for more zoom out. The purpose here is to gain perspective about area. Cites or dungeons.
Bit late to the party but I'll give my two cents. In my experience I tend to find that when I'm doing idle things like tending to crops, fishing, crafting or just wondering round a town I'll be zoomed in to a more immersive experienced camera. However, whenever I am in a combat situation or exploring the open world I will pretty always be zoomed out enough that I can see my character well enough but I'm far enough away that I'm not at a disadvantage during combat.
For example if I am doing PvP I would would want to be pretty zoomed out and have my character take up let's say roughly 10% of the middle of my screen (guesstimating that figure), this way I will be able to see any on coming mechanics and have plenty of time to ready myself. As for PvP it would be the same sort of thing, I'd want to be able to see where everyone within my vacinity is that could reach me with abilities so I can adjust myself accordingly.
They let you set your max zoom, min zoom, rotation sens, zoom sens, and a bunch of other things. Really just need an X and Y offset and it’d be perfect imo. For large scale boss areas where visibility is important, it changes your max zoom to wayyyyy out so you can see what’s going on, which is great.
Personally, I’ve yet to find an RPG where I’m not zoomed all the way out, so for me I just hope it isn’t too close. I also like to actually see what’s in front of me though, so I don’t want that zoomed out position to angle too far downwards. But I think above all players should be allowed to customize their camera, because others might not agree with my preference.
MMOs that allow cameras too zoom out too far ruin immersion for me. Zoomed-out MMOs do not feel like real worlds to me. They end up feeling like set pieces filled with miniatures.
Playing classic FF11 over the past year has recently made me realize how important this is. I would encourage the devs to rewatch some footage of that game to serve as an example of how a more zoomed-in no-topdown camera might actually feel good. Just walking around town in that game is a treat. The world in that game feels like an actual place when you play, and it's pretty much all because of the camera. I've tested out FF11 camera mods that allow you to zoom out further, and it really does take away all of the "this is an actual place" magic of the game.
Ashes' faster pvp combat might require the camera to be a little more zoomed out, but nonetheless, FF11 serves as a shining example of how important a zoom limit is for ensuring MMO world immersion.
Just, please, get the camera mechanic correctly programmed for the vast majority of situations; no one likes to have constant boss battles with the camera angle and zoom.