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Dev Discussion #65 - Camera Perspective

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    ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Zoom in all the way for caves and such. get all nice and immersed. Otherwise fairly zoomed out, but never all the way.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I want my experience to feel like a movie/TV show.
    Main thing for me is to be able to move the camera so that it's not locked over the shoulder during combat so I can get some action shots from the front or sides of my character(s).
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    Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I hate nothing more than a camera that zooms out to RTS level, keep it zoomed in. keep us in the world. In the caravan streams it was emphasized that there is intent to have places for ambushes and a need for scouting. Nothing will kill this quicker than a camera that zooms out to the sky
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    Camera to me applies to fog of war. When you are physically stressed, your brain tends to process information slower, thus tunnel vision. The more experienced and calmer the character is, the greater awareness. You could use factors like character level, class, what that character is doing, what the target/opponent is doing, etc. But all that sounds like realism, and we can’t have that.

    Zoom out to the next node. That’s what competitive players want, right.
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    TorsteinTorstein Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 3
    I do not have a very strong preference when it comes to the distance of the camera from my character, as long as its not too close. I do however prefer a quite high field of view, usually around 110 degrees, so I really hope that there will be a field of view slider in the game! :)
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    SettiteSettite Member
    Closer camera is better to me. If u give players the option to zoom out a decent bit then everyone is forced to play like that or they are at a disadvantage. As long as someone can't zoom too far out I think it'll b fine. If someone wants a birds eye view then they should position themselves to get one.
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    ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    • I like watching from above and zoomed out when I'm mapping
    • Closer when I'm in town so I can enjoy the details of the area around me
    • First person so I can take screenshots of the area
    • Zooming into my characters face for screenshots as well
    ☼ Alpha 2 let's gooooo ☼
    ♢ Empyrean ♢ Py'Rai ♢ Vaelune ♢
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 4
    The camera angle for Ashes has to be comfortable enough to see your character from an over shoulder perspective but not zoomed out far enough you can see way beyond your peripherals. There needs to be a limit to data.

    Players should have to actually camera pan to see behind them in order to absorb that information.
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    I hate nothing more than a camera that zooms out to RTS level, keep it zoomed in. keep us in the world. In the caravan streams it was emphasized that there is intent to have places for ambushes and a need for scouting. Nothing will kill this quicker than a camera that zooms out to the sky

    THIS! The zoom-out we saw in caravan stream was too much. I want to be able to sneak up with my team and gank a caravan without being spotted from 100ft away.
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    SolmyrSolmyr Member
    edited July 4
    Settite wrote: »
    Closer camera is better to me. If u give players the option to zoom out a decent bit then everyone is forced to play like that or they are at a disadvantage. As long as someone can't zoom too far out I think it'll b fine. If someone wants a birds eye view then they should position themselves to get one.
    This is a good point. With a more limited zoom-out distance, things like high ground, stealth, and flight become much more consequential.
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    ChaosFactorChaosFactor Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't have an enormous opinion on the degree of camera scaling. Obviously the more freedom to scroll out the better for most players... Simply tampered by the need for balancing in PvP.

    That being said! Allowing the opportunity to zoom all the way into and through your character into first person is HUGE. Although the majority of individuals playing MMORPGs are most comfortable and immersed in the third person or isometric view, the opportunity with players like myself who love the first person view to use such... Is soooo huge.
    ej8s4cu9gp1n.png
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    CuyonsCuyons Member
    Centered and generally zoomed out. A closer one for casual playing, travelling, gathering, crafting and stuff like that.
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    S4m3nS4m3n Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I like when i can zoom out the camera into the atmosphere in Raids and PvP. But in general i try to be as close as possible when playing, to enjoy the Details of the graphics/effects.

    That being said, i think Ashes should have an limit on the zoom out height because of the Open World PvP.
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    VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Camera Perspective: What camera perspective do you prefer in terms of both angle and distance from your character? Do different situations call for different perspectives?

    Ideally the mouse wheel lets you zoom all the way into first person and zoom out as far as the render distance would before things start to disappear.

    One issue I would like to see solved is that an ultra-wide screen monitor is almost always an advantage in competitive games because DEVs don't do anything about the increased visibility.

    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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    I mostly play all the way zoomed out as far as I can go. I like a wide field of view to suck in all the information. When situations call for it, I'll occasionally zoom all the way in (right up to first person if possible) to get a good look at something like a mount or such.

    One thing I absolutely hate is a short zoom. Think MOBAs, they are wayyyy too zoomed in and I hate it. If I'm playing a third person/top down type thing, zoom me out!

    Runescape has a good level of zoom, GW2 also pretty good but maybe a little close to the character. Would be nicer if the character was more centered rather than bottom middle aligned. (if that makes sense.)
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    SCHINKENSCHINKEN Member
    Zoom in and out

    For my opinion you should have a option where you can move in and out enough for example get so close to your char that it swaps into ego and for moving out i it should be possible to move the camera far enought away so you can see your bosses i hate it in mmos when you have to stick so close that you only see the feet of the boss.

    Angle

    For the Angle i like it when you can move your camera free so you can for example see your char from the top like a top down view pretty helpful for precious movement actions. Thats all i guess

    Short Version

    Move in as far as possible so the camera swaps into ego perspectiv of your char and zoom out far enough so you can see the bosses not like other games or mmos where you can see only the feet of the boss when he is a big one

    Angle should be free like the zoom in and out so you can see your char from the top like a top down view.
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    AmmaAmma Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    For me it depends what is happening around me. If i am in a Bossfight, then i zoom more in for classical things like "not standing in the fire", but mostly i zoom out on max distance for the overview. Doesnt have to be a fight, i zoom out on max distance for gathering some materials or simply traveling to another location.
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    JhorenJhoren Member
    edited July 4
    Max zoom out should probably be around where it's still comfortable for the action cam players to still hit their targets. What I've seen from the streams and videos is that the current max is too far by quite a bit. Like others have said, it kills the immersion and beauty of the game, but people will feel forced to do it for competitive reasons, even if it kills the enjoyment of the game.

    The only exception where the current max zoom distance should be allowed are ingame instances where the experience is improved by it. Like an instanced boss room with a giant boss, where zooming out better allows you to see it in its full glory. And perhaps castle sieges too, to some extent, but not in a way where you can see over walls or anything. But never in the open world.

    Perspective should be a user setting. Let us change FOV and placement behind the character within certain limits.
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    MissionCreepMissionCreep Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    #1
    I personally like everything except first-person. First person gives me motion sickness and it can be quite bad depending on the game. I know I'm not the only one; there are a lot of people who can't use VR for the same reason.

    Generally speaking the more I'm zoomed out and/or the more overhead I am the less sick I feel. I almost never do melee for this reason; ranged allows me to stand farther back and not have to constantly/quickly swivel the camera.
    [I do play tanks sometimes as they are built to stand in one place much more than melee dps. Also I can often scan my party's health bars on the side, rather than be solely dependent on cues in the combat POV.]

    I'm sure whatever you offer will be fine in this regard, just be aware that for some it's more than a mere preference.
    #2
    I don't love the idea that someone with a pile of cash can hook up three 8k monitors and see 48 times more of the game world (or PvP combat) than someone running a single 1920 x 1080, just going by pixel count.

    Maybe you could allow full resolution to whatever maximum extent technology allows now and in the future... but the camera must be in "Screenshot mode" with no combat information on the screen. Or that mode is limited to 10 fps, which is fine for screenshots but not for fighting. Or taskbar buttons are disabled. Just to throw out some ideas.

    Max resolution (currently 8k times 3) isn't even useful as video for content creators; they aren't going to be recording or streaming at anything larger than 4k.*

    I'm not saying that you need to aim the game at the worst (or most basic) hardware on the market, nor that combat views need to be restricted to 1080p. I'm just asking you to consider something like this when you are addressing things like camera and viewing.
    Hopefully there's a happy medium.

    * Even "maximum" size static screenshots aren't that useful since they can't be shared with most users. Although it would be nice for downloading/copying maps! Those can be great at ridiculous resolutions regardless of the user's monitor size.
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    leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    for node wars and other large scale battle, to coordinate the party or raid as a stratagist, zooming out is welkcome.
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    palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Personally, in games with fixed camera, third-person or first-person, I always increase the FOV to at least 90. In Ashes, I'll be leveraging the action skills more than the tab skills. I have no idea what the ideal zoom yet as I need to get a feel of it myself. Resolution and aspect ratio plays a huge factor in this after all.
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    Dr3amerADr3amerA Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I personally dont go first person for gameplay. Maybe for screenshots or to view small details.
    Be able to zoom out but up to a point. Don't make it able to go through walls.

    I think the answer is simple really.
    Just give options. All the options. Angle, distance (within reason) etc
    For player, for mounts (land and flying), for vehicles. Everything.

    I would just love to be able to save 2-3 camera presets to go from locked in combat mode to zoom out as far as possible
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    SengardenSengarden Member
    edited July 5
    Honestly, I would love to have the option for a first-person camera with hands/forearms (potentially even chest and lower body) visible supported in more MMOs. I know it doesn't always work well for strategic fights, but to have the option there during casual play would be fun and immersive. If no first-person mode with appropriately visible character model and mounts is available, I like to zoom in quite close above & behind the avatar during casual play to feel like I'm actually inhabiting the space my avatar is in, rather than watching from afar.

    During combat, I like to zoom out a decent amount to get a better lay of the land. However, I think there is such a thing as too much. When you allow players' cameras to go into the lower levels of the atmosphere during PvP encounters, it becomes necessary for anyone who wants to maximize their information access during PvP to also do so, and very few people actually enjoy playing the game with the camera that far away from their toon. Keep max camera distance reasonably close so that there's not this silly urge to zoom the camera out further than is actually enjoyable to play with simply to avoid a PvP disadvantage.

    Over-the-shoulder during reticle mode is pretty much essential, if the team is actually going to keep the soft-lock "action" combat option in the game, though I don't much like the idea of switching between the two regularly.
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    cupicupi Member
    I want to be able to zoom out at least 3/4 of the PC rendering distance. Preferably (not gonna happen) a little bit over the rendering distance.
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    TylthulTylthul Member
    edited July 6
    I enjoy closer cameras that zoom out during world bosses and large scale encounters, like BDO or Bless (I know, I know) or really any modern rpg with action combat, but I'm also a PvE player mostly. I get where people want to see as much as they can cram on their screen during PvP, though. At that point I'm just pixel farming, and not engaged in a game world.

    Edit: I also agree with earlier comments about RTS-level zoom outs just killing strategic ambushes, scouting, flanking, and such. If you can see everything, at all times, it's not immersive game play anymore. Heck even RTS games have fog of war to keep some element of surprise.
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    FiddlezFiddlez Member
    Immersion first. Not playing an RTS. I think elden ring is a little too close at the start but I need to feel like I am watching my characters story so closer is better than farther in most cases.
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    TlayTlay Member
    Adjustability is preferred. In RP settings I can't be one with my character if I can barely see them. I need to be up close to interact. This is also why I prefer controller over keyboard and mouse, RP walking. A little dot running from one spot to another, breaks immersion. Of course little dot running from spot to spot in an attempt not to get squished is also rather acceptable.

    So yeah, adjustable please. Also, choice between left should/right should/middle is nice too.
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    tinukedatinukeda Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Generally medium zoom out, over the shoulder. Though this doesn't really encourage looking up, as it were :lol:
    closer/farther zoom as situations demand
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    SmaashleySmaashley Member
    edited July 7
    I want to see the battlefield so I can predict things. I don't mind, just not too much zoomed in.
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    Third person/first person, with the option to scroll out pretty far
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