How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
Seeing the bard makes me think there is experience ramping up in the combat team. I think the quality of the archetypes are in exact order of their chronological reveals. As someone who will main rogue or summoner this makes me very excited!
The longer preview format allowed us to see it more in context so thanks a lot for providing it.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
I look at the bard as an enabler of classes, allowing them to enhance other classes using utility effects aside from providing their own damage and healing. The bard was showcased having some of these like CC, chill effect and chrono boost. These things are what I enjoy the most because it allows me to coordinate with my teammates to control or set up damage spikes. The flourish ability is an amazing addition to allow some slipperyness. Where the cleric can keep themselves alive I believe bards are more of a kiting class.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm really curious how different weapons will impact the bard. For this reason I was hoping to see the daggers, because they feel like they really break the bard's theme if they are the same animations as the dagger showcase we once saw.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
The bard in Lost Ark has an amazing kit that allows for a very active playstyle.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
So far it looks amazing. There are a couple of things that I would like to see:
Tell a joke (puns!) and slow everyone in range
Ability to recast the last song/dance for less mana (encore)
An ability that pulls random tarot cards with different effects (for funsies but also for juking the Gambit ability)
A charming ability (poems)
A fairly strong single target ability using the instrument (smack someone with the lute)
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them
I would like the instruments to play a slightly bigger role in the animations but honestly the VFX and SFX are all great and I'm very happy with them.
First of all, I love bard and this has so many elements of my ideal "dream" bard. The incorporation of storytelling, dancing, singing, etc. It all adds to that element that the bard is not just some caster with a musical flavour. That being said, the one tiny thing I would have loved to have seen was some "feats" or "stunts" (to try name the category) skills that incorporate the bards weapon.
For example a bard with a sword and shield supporting the front line with an elegant overly flashy melee move that inspires and buffs allies/demoralizes enemies. Or something silly like a bow shot that makes rangers attacks easier to land as follow up by painting the enemy pink. I love how there's so much cleric synergy and support towards being a backline participant, but these would just really cement into that dance, blade, and flourish theme and letting bards truly be the jack-of-all who can fill in the missing link to the party. Like how in the showcase if the bard was able to have frontlined it would've supported the party synergy more due to how you had a ranger+mage dps combo. (I fully get that composition wasn't taken into consideration for the dev showcase and its purely a purpose of showcasing raw gameplay and the spell book weapon, but this was just a note I had).
One final thing,
you said on the stream "Every archetype can use every weapon", but does that mean that archetype skills can alter based on the weapon? For example, we saw the fighter with a 2handed weapon doing very MEATY cleaves in that showcase- but does that alter if they're, for example, using daggers/light weapons. Vice versa, what if that bard was to have used a sword? How would it feel considering most of its stuff seem ranged and independent on the weapon.
Thank you all for the hard work, dedication, and transparency you give to your community. I cannot wait for Alpha2.
It looks like that with the bard's ability kit that they might struggle with solo play. If you guys are not planning on adding more abilities that does dmg, maybe add a passive or instrument that would make the songs only effect the player in exchange to increase the buff effects of the songs?
Awesome. I saw a comment about singing buffs for passing people but i more like the idea of traveling with a bard and hearing their stories provide static buff, something like tricks of the trade or something. 3% Static for bard in your party for 15m, with 1% additional for each unique base class in the party? or something like that. more excited to hear the book is classified as a slow weapon. please use its position and the long animations to maximum effect if possible. Over the shoulder for rapid fire, producing multiple magic circles in the air for barrage and hiding itself in clever ways when you swap to class skills. When we do see it attached to the char some emotes to play with your book in some way would be nice, feeding it quills, reading a book to your book, stupid things plz. Thanks for the update, gl with alpha!
Love love the bard! I do however want to drop some of my thoughts:
1) I feel like a large majority of the class playstyle revolves around heals or off heals. In my opinion, dropping a few more direct dps skills, DoTs or more offensive buffs would be great as it gives the players a difficult choice to either spec into health support vs dps support. Heck it could even be like an entire different line of skills (aside from melodies, or dances) like shouts or ballads. In my opinion, this creates a unique opportunity for both players and groups, as you have to make the difficult decision of survivability vs DPS.
p.s: We see some great utility support and they are amazing. I absolutely love that.
2) I love the melodies, I think they are an excellent set of skills. If i were to suggest something, it would be to add an active skill that changes based on the type of melody active. A flourish if you will, ala Bards in FF14. The skills could be like single target heals, or single target mp recovery, or single target or aoe dps. Again, it should be dependent on the melody being played. In my opinion this adds another layer of weaving that plays really well with the melody system already implemented.
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YurakuuMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Some people already mentioned it but I feel like the animations for the bards skills should mainly involve playing an instrument and not using the equipped weapon. Since weapons are interchangable between classes they could just function as a stat stick for the bard while the selected instrument is used for casting, similar to the already shown melodies.
After providing my feedback on the Cleric, I now want to focus on the Bard, the class I'm most excited about in this game.
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
Honestly, what can I say? My wall of text is smaller than I thought because I am speechless and have nothing more to say. You have portrayed the Bard exactly as I envisioned it. Bravo!
I played a Bard class in Dark Age of Camelot and fell in love with this archetype. Thank you for capturing something so beautiful and bringing a smile to my face with this class during the showcase.
I've seen many inspirations from other games, and you have captured everything that defines this support role for me. Visually, acoustically, and in terms of gameplay, it was all there, just as I know and love it.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Flexibility which it offers within a group. You've clearly demonstrated this in the stream, and I love the idea of being able to adapt and contribute in various ways depending on the situation.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Besides Dark Age of Camelot... *quick think* Ragnarok Online, Rift, Lord of the Rings Online (though technically a healer, but fits the role), and Project Gorgon, the Bard archetype often shares core characteristics with the one you've shown. The main issue I found in Ashes of Creation's Bard was the use of combo and builder/spender mechanics, which I found problematic.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I also appreciated how the livestream addressed things that came to my mind while watching, such as updating the health display and working on hiding the weapon when disarmed. It's great to know that these aspects are being actively worked on.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
I'm still struggling to understand the status effects on which other skills build. A clearer explanation or simplification would be helpful here. Not a huge fan of combo skills.
What I definitely do not like is the builder/spender mechanic of the Saga skill with the tragedy builder. It feels out of place in this class, as if it doesn't belong to this playstyle.
During the Q&A session, it was mentioned that all buffs and similar abilities require a group. Please change this so that they can also be used solo.
Everything else looked otherwise top notch. Especially had fun watching the Gambit skill.
And give Bucky a raise.
The MVP move where he swapped health bars with Steven when he was about to die was epic!
Overall I don't think this bard have many versatility, I will get into this further in the follow answers (and on page 4 of forums on each spell/skill)
A lot of things looks great but a lot of things look unpolished either. U are in the right direction.
Since there's a lot of ppl already talking about the good ol' part, I would like to jump into the other part also.
I hope any of us Bard players can help devs with perspective to future patches.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Bard is great, should be a class with a variety of gameplays, mostly focus either in support or disrupt but that could also get their way into fighting if needed. Bards are great to roleplay. Bards are great to the enviroment of the game.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm concerned with a lot of things, imma list som of them.
CONS
1- BARDS SHOULD HAVE CHARM . This is self explanatory, maybe change the staggerd skill to give charm. Maybe the Marionette skill from the Wiki will be that one. They need mind control / mind numbing skills. The lack of illusions also was a downpoint. Hope they think of that, even if it is when u mix Bard+mage or Bard+rogue
2- Bards are great if they have - out of combat skills -, they could give hp regen or such, even small buffs in professions if u heard a bard playing in the city's tavern or something. That add to roleplay and to the envyroment.
3- This bard doesnt look versatil. The way its built now, if u dont play him support u will waste ur time in this class. All supp healing/buffs are way better than the damage or disruptive/debuff/CC skills. As a Bard DnD player I can confirm that most ppl DONT pick suport healing, instead we make more use of illusion magic/mind control. This class lacks that, besides that sleep/incapacitated and Dark Lullaby, there's almos nothing that seems like a bard mind control skill. Bards should shine in CC and single target control. They can be a great support but almost every MMO makes bard a healing/buff only class and this is really boring. This Bard so far is no diferent.
4- Bards need more double face/dual function skills/ability. As I recall there's only the wit tomato trow thing.
Maybe u could save that awfull movspeed skills song/dance that gives 5s movspd buff like that... I just dont see any player spending skill points in a skill that its not that usefull, the effect doesnt last at long, if u make it double faced, maybe giving slow to enemies, maybe, just maybe, u can save it. The dodge buff to this skill doesnt seem like it would add great value to the skill.
5- We need more bardish skills like that Quick Wit/tomato trow thing, Gambit and Get Off the Stage. This are bulls eye right there, Touchdowns, Gols, make more stuff like this and u will get it right.
6- The violin hit (Get Off The Stage) should knock enemy down and kock back further away. The range of the push should be good enough to drive ppl away from the Bard. In the Stream looked like the enemy isnt pushed back at all and they said they will probably change it. U could just see the Snare being usefull but not the knockback. It would be an awesome joke to throw ppl off cliffs with this and also would give more versatility to melee. ( Would be kinda similar to the effect of blade flourish from Sword College Bards from DnD).
7 - Even if the bard is not a DPS main focous, I noticed that a lot of damages are Magic. It would be nice to see this balanced with physical dmg so ppl could mix more. This could bring variety. Now it looks like a buff focus mage.
PROS:
The good things are mostly the animations, the interaction between group, the songspells sinergyze alongside with soundtrack, there's a bunch of buffs...
Sagas are worth the time on this class. They are truly amazing.
I will edit a further comment into this Forums to adress spells and abilities. What felt really good and what could be improved. I think ppl talked a lot about the good stuff so Imma focus on the not so good *yet to be improved/implemented* stuff also, the deep dive into spells/skills is on page 4 of this forums.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
In Ragnarok's Bard/Minstrel~Dance/Gypsy, there's a skill called Tarot Card Fate. U guys made something similar with that tarotlike skill ( Gambit ) that could change HP. The way u guys could improve this is either creating more skills like that (with random effects, buffs or debuffs, with risk ) OR make it able to use it on adversaries (with minor changes like : trow a coin, if they get lucky, u lose HP and they gain, if U get lucky, they lost HP and u gain, or they get fear/stun/slow/staggered/entangled/confused... anything u guys want (even randomize the debuffs)). The way Gambit works, right now, could easily drive ppl away from bards. Ppl probably will think twice into adding a bard into their groups with a spell that potentially could troll all the pt. Could be also funny as hell. Also its worth mentioning that Professor class (from Ragnarok also) had a similar spell but changed MP. In the beggining a lot of ppl trolld, a lil short later ppl used normally as should be.
There'r so many DnD spells that could go well here, Crown of Madness, Hypnotic Pattern, Cause Fear, Dispell, Glyph of Warding, Slow, Charm, Charm Monster, Command, Control, Compulsion, Confusion, Silence.... so many... bards need mental compulsion skills/spells. They are a mental focus class. More protective either (from mental conditions), he does not have a CC breaker yet, a Cleanse or a Dispell.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
I think the Bard need more combos. There's the Disarming, Staggered + Stun (thats hard to pull out and single target), whats more? The improved healing over time? Well... I mean, the AOC BARD ressonate well with a group ( he have chillin, staggerin etc) but as a single character is lacking, u could improve this so much, I trust u guys.
I feel that the bard should be one of the most blessed AOE CC (or protective AOE) classes, should have acess to a lot of possibilities in terms of Crowd Control. Just my point of view. In terms of defensive supp, I think this Bard have potential but still a diamond to be polished.
Give it more possibilities of debuffs and conditions (confusion, stuns, slows, knockbacks, knockdown, charms, etc) to the bard, at least this, even if they only trigger after u use a combo of skills, ike ArcheAge
Also, the incapacitated/stun combo could give u lifesteal (nigthmare - such as dream eater pokemon move). Its hard to pull this combo for a lot of reasons, I would make Dark Lullaby AOE or instacast.
I wanna see more combos like this one. The bard should be able to confuse ppl, making them laugh in the ground, make them dance, make them be fascinated (like in Mesmerizing Dance), making them hypnotized about som light in the sky...
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
The animations are great, very amazing indeed, its cool to see songs and dances mixed. Probably the best thing in this class so far.
It would be cool if the mix classes (2nd class) add visual effects such as a Bard with Tanker his sword flies around (dancing sword). When I use Flourish with Bard/Rogue or Bard/Mage I would like to see Illusions left behind the trace to fool enemies. If i'm a Bard Summoner I would like to see a debuff where I summon rats while playing a flute. The multiclass system could fix and improve a lot of the Archetypes (but I would still play this game without it and wait for later patch implement).
I kinda want to see a variety of instruments (matching the MIDI in the magic effects of such instrument).
CONCLUSION
Intrepid is doing a fine job on the Archetypes. The Fighter and the Bard are probably the most polished but the Bard still need a rework on a lot of things (specially on those movspeed skills). Bards need the versatility to be something besides a full support. The way the build is designed right now there's no motive to make any build besides full support hp/mp. All mmo have done this already... mind the fact that there will be limit skill points available.
This was hands down the best stream... probably ever for this game? The flow and explanations were solid. The general interplay between cast members was focused and enjoyable. And I was not disappointed by a single thing in this stream. The art team is doing so much work. The Bard's effects look spectacular. The ui changes and skill tree changes are all very welcome. The abilities all felt really well tuned and well thought out in terms of interplay compared to the Bard's kit. The team play was very good. Overall this is my first 10/10 class for this game and I'd change very little about it. I love the tarot looking icons and saga abilities in particular. The dance and song animations are so low key and high impact, wow, what clean work.
As someone who likes the book I think the weapon needs to be a bit faster and I really wanna know how the dps compares to faster weapons. I'm looking forward to seeing the skill tree for book. I love the current size although I'd be comfortable with it being like 10% smaller than it's current size. The disjointed animations between book and caster look smooth and natural.
My only critique for bard is that it's sleep ability does not look like a sleep ability. The color, the sharpness of shapes in the fx's, and the sharp sound effect do not feel like a sleep ability at all to me.
I don't think the knock-back for get off the stage needs to be more than 5 meters. I think it'd be cool if active blocking reduced the amount of knock back significantly.
Good work team. And thank you Dr. Bucky for doing this class justice. I'm looking forward to Summoner getting a similar treatment.
Fantastic Bard Showcase. My only immediate feedback is that you should be able to modify your early single-target heal ability to restore mana instead. That would help in mana-intensive fights like when Stephen was struggling with mana during some of the fights.
I'll be touching on two main categories in this feedback post. Bard Class / Group Play.
Bard Class
I had positive vibes from seeing the bard and its abilities in general. There are some minor things and tweaks that I might want to see changed.
Melodies
There are currently 5 different Melodies.
Cheerful (Healing)
Pensive (Mana Regen)
Epic (Movement Speed)
Cathartic (Lifesteal / Leech)
Menacing (Damage amplification)
These are all what I was expecting to see except for the leech, which I absolutely welcome. I think these are nice and fit the style of the class that I'm expecting to see when I hear "Bard". They feel like iconic abilities that capture the essence of what a bard actually is. They're not incredibly powerful on their own in a vaccum, but they require something else to happen as well. I think they're perfectly slotted in terms of mechanics.
Animation wise, I feel like the active effect could be toned down a bit. I think having something that moves closer to the ground and instead of having big flashing lights on the targets (looking at Cheerful specifically here) the targets could be outlined with the same yellow hue. Feels like it would be less visual clutter and better readability when in a combat scenario.
Big effects should be reserved for big abilities.
Post cast, there's currently no visual indication on the targets (aside from the buff ofc) that they're affected. I do believe that this is the correct choice since again, it's a minor effect and doesn't need to be visually tracked by enemies and allies. It's good.
Dances
There are currently 4 different dances.
Dances are not what I think of immediately when I hear "Bard", however I'm absolutely not against it. I actually think it's a nice addition. The question is though, what kind of purpose should they serve and how should they work?
It looks like at the moment that two of them (Shielding and Nimble) are just more intense version of the melodies. I feel like this is a missed opportunity and that they should have a totally unique mechanic of their own instead. Nimble dance for example, instead of providing movement speed it could provide CC reduction, more fittingly snare / immobile immunity. Shielding could be a damage reduction instead of a flat shield.
Now we reach Mesmerizing and Maddening. Mechanically i've not gripes with them, it's mostly about the animations and that they're too flashy. There's too much happening on the screen which prevents readability.
The actual dances, the characters movement I think is fantastic, I wouldn't change a thing, but there simply is too many effects going on that makes the game more difficult to parse. Especially when it comes to the distortion effects, it feels like art is being prioritized over function. There's no doubt in my mind that you'll be able to find a good middle ground, but please think twice about the distortion effects.
Mesmerizing dance in particular I feel like it needs to have some flare to it to properly convey the message to other players that they're being crowdcontrolled. I would probably change the cast time to be instant, but I don't know about that yet.
Get of the Stage
Clearly a work in progress spell. Knockback needs to actually be a knockback if you want a knockback. Otherwise just make it a normal interrupt, maybe add a very short silence effect. Not much else to say about it in its current iteration.
Epic Melody / Anthem of Alacrity
Epic Melody is just a basic bread and butter type spell. Nothing wrong with this. However, I really do like how the music is timed with the actual heals. That's a very nice touch and I really appreciate that design. Great job!
Anthem of Alacrity is such an interesting spell to have access to. This is why I like to play as bards, I like buffing and supporting and this is exactly what this kind of class should bring to the table. Now the question here is, does it need a cast time? Why can't it just be instant cast? I would argue that having it instant cast would probably (since I havn't played the Bard yet) make the class feel better to play. I would also actually remove the spell effects from the caster, but maybe increase the ones on the target. I'm not quite sure if there's dispells present to remove enemy debuffs, but I feel like that should be the counterplay instead of interrupting the bard. We would gain visual clarity and possibly make the class feel better to play by making these 2 changes.
Offensive Abilities (Shift 3-5)
My initial reaction to Chilling Lament is that Bard seems to have no baseline way of actually freezing a target? If that's the case, then why would you have something that only gains benefits when a specific class is interacting with your target in a specific way. That honestly feels like bad design because you're losing out on a lot of power in the spell. Hopefully i've missed something here and you can freeze as a Bard, but atm I cannot see it.
Animation wise it's ok, it doesn't feel very bardic and I don't like the tunes being played the way they are. Each repetition of the tunes feels like they're clipping on the previous repetitions end causing it to sound poorly made.
Dark Lullaby though, this is the exact opposite in terms of mechanics. This has a very well built in combo with one of the other readily available skills. This is amazing and I love the design. Not only does it benefit from your Mesmerizing Dance, but it can also benefit from other players incapacitate. As mentioned in the video/stream, this spell has a rather unique effect where its damage doesn't break the incapacitate effect, which is so cool!
Unfortunately the animation is way too much with all the special effects above and around your own character. There's barely any animation going on on the target however. In addition to that, because of how the entire spell is animated it's very deceptive, because it looks very much like it's a semi-big AoE spell, but it's actually a single target spell.
Bottom line, animation needs a total rework, mechanics are awesome and the music playing is fantastic.
Discordance is meant to be something of a chain lightning type ability is my understanding, it bounces between mobs. Feels like a half thought out ability. It feels like it should be a short cast where all three notes fly at the same time rather than individually. I'm also thinking how this sounds like when applied in a group setting with multiple people using multiple abilities, because it's being mentioned (55:10 in the video) that when these bounce around there's going to be a lot of sound, again making it difficult to parse important information. The sound itself sounds nice and I like it, but I don't think it'll work well in a multiplayer setting, and considering that this is in fact an MMO, that's quite an important aspect.
The spell idea itself is something I like and can get behind, the execution not so much.
Gambit
I love it. I love it so much. It feels a lot more though through than some of the previous entries because it can only be used on allied players (even restricted to party, might want to broaden it and open up to raid members). It's such a cool ability that I feel can absolutely have a unique spot in the Bards expansive toolkit. This is one of the few animations that I really like and I'll break it down.
There's 2 main components of the animation, there's the line between the players, indicating to everyone that these two targets are being connected by something, what is that though? That's where the second component comes into play, the cards above their heads. One card is a golden yellow and the other is red. This clearly signals to all other nearby players which player has gained health and which player has lost health. Magnificently designed.
I do wonder though, is the correct approach to have the players swap raw health and not % based? I don't know the answer to that yet.
Stories and Saga
The Saga uses Stories to build up "themes", this is something I can get behind, it's some sort of preplanned gameplay. I don't know enough about how this actually plays to have a proper opinion. But at the very least there needs to be some proper UI change to track the "themes" have and how many of each, the current iteration does not cut it at all.
There were 4 different versions of the Saga, 3 of them requiring 3 of each "theme" and then the last one with 1 of all 3 different "themes". How would this work out gameplay wise when you're already at 3 "themes" of 1 and then feel the need to use an ability that grants a different "theme" right before the Saga comes off cooldown? Feels clunky at first sight so I will have to play with it to get a proper opinion.
Until then though, how I would design it is for it to be dynamic. Either the main effect (since there's currently 4) will be chosen based on the last "theme" added and then it's power will be determined by the other two "themes", more of the same matching color adds to that spells effect.
The Stories themselves are what I like about the Bard, it's the buffs, it's the debuffs, it's the group play. I want to see more of them to give proper feedback since currently we only got to see 2 out of the 6 available, but so far i'm very intruiged by them.
Movement during abilties
Yes, yes yes. Especially the songs. AoC looks like it has rather mobile combat, and i'm relieved to see that the bard doesn't have to stand stationary for 20 seconds, and that dances can also be used while moving. This is a huge W imo. Adding to that, the ability to cast other spells while playing a melody also feels like a very important part of the design.
I look forward to getting my hands on the Bard in A2 or maybe even a spot test, there are some things that I can't really talk too much about without having played it.
Group Play
This is more about the general gameplay and what happened in the video as a whole, not so much focused on the bard.
One of the biggest gripes I had with the gameplay was the visibility and readability of the situation. While outside it was a lot easier, but still rather messy. Inside though, it was borderline impossible to see what was actually going on on the screen. There were so many flashy effects coming from all over, combine that with the distortion effects that being generated by certain spells, such as the mage's ball lightning and one of the bard spells. That makes everything very difficult to parse and take it. Now we add the "realism" that Steven talked about where if you're standing in a bright or well lit area and you look inside of a building (which is dark) it's difficult to see inside of the building. These effects were being replicated by the light emminating from the spell effects, causing the terrain and everything else to turn pitch black. Why this is so bad can be perfectly examplified when there's a call for retreat and Steven is struggling to find his way out, because on the screen everything's pitch black and you literally cannot see where to go.
I want to touch more on the sound design as well. I know that it's been mentioned that the new upload should hopefully have better audio, but before I get to listen to that, I'll comment on what I got to experience. The audio was nothing short of a complete mess. There was no clarify what so ever. It was borderline impossible to recognize any one spell from the other or any other action being taken in the game. Voice audio from the players were crisp so it didn't have anything to do with volume.
I have no listened to the new video and it's a significant improvement, but it still feel a little of chaotic. There's room for improvement but at the very least it's not as bad as it was on the livestream itself.
What I believe to be a big part of the problem here is that each spell is designed in a vacum by itself, not taking into account all the other things that'll be going on at the same time on the battlefield. That goes for both the sound and the visual design. Not everything has to be flashy and have lines indication the direction from where it was sent. Not every spell needs to have a loud rumbling sound just by charging up the spell. Mage chain lightning was a very big perpetrator there.
I loved the bard preview. The effects look just right, the spells are interesting. Seeing the mobility + healing/buffing is my playstyle so I'm really excited.
I'm very happy to see the melodies skills which I'm used to from Aion the Chanter class had "mantras" which were quite similar and they just made playing that class super fun. You move faster, regenerate more hp/deal more dmg... I especially loved the lifesteal effect and the fact that we can have 2 melodies at the same time. I would love to set the melody active and it just lives as a passive buff until I change to other melody and then cooldown starts.
The other exciting spell was saga "Armagedon saga" was just incredible. Im curious about the dmg. It looked like a huge AoE nuke. Id love to see the balance between focusing on few abilities but leveling them up and making them super strong versus spreading between multiple different abilities. I know we are too early to really see that
When it comes to instrument animations Im not sold really. I don't know what I miss but I miss something. I think the idea of every class can use any weapon, that I don't really like and in previous game I played, bard used the instrument as a weapon of magic type. I still can't see bard using sword and then playing some melody on harp or flute? It confuses me a little.
VFX looked great! honestly I would love to see the spell icons be themed together a little bit like if its a heal it could be more yellow ish icon, if its nuke it could be red/purple ish icon. SFX I have to replay it loud in the future.
Im afraid with the spells, you showcased bard with basically full kit which idk if it's possible ingame but It looked okay to me. Im afraid if we have less skills ingame if it won't be boring. Im really into having 20 different skills and comboing them rotating them all. Also because the bard spells are affecting area around him, he could use more mobility. I loved the dash ability, It needs good cooldown/multiple stacks or something that makes it quite reusable.
Overall I loved the showcase and can't wait to try it out myself.
Bard is exactly what I whished for since I joined APOC back in 2018 and decided to main Bard.
"What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?"
Bard seems to be really fluid and fills a ton of nieche aspects and rols in the group.
Need mana? We got you. Need some extra oompf behind healing in burst windows? Shure, we got a song for that! Debuffs? Yep, we got them as well! We can dash into the thick of it and drop shields then sleep everything around us to run away or stay in the backline or in the middle of a zerg and buff our allies.
"Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?"
I am a bit concerned about Bard viability in solo content. The damage seemed low and most of our build is centered around helping others first and foremost instead of buffing ourselves. It would be cool if our dances would also damage enemies when pressed.
"Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!"
My absolutely most favourite Bard EVER was the Chanter from AION. They worked by invoking mantras (basically auras,) debuffing enemies and buffing allies, when pressing attacking abilities. The one thing I dont want to see for bards are motionless, channeling mana batteries or health bots. Give us the ability to hurt our enemies, while helping our allies.
"What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?"
So far, it looks really good. Like I said, the damage seems low (but Alpha be Alpha) and some more interaction between helping allies and damaging enemies would be awesome. I love how you seperated songs, dances and ballads into specific types of abilities. Ballads are short and quick, dances are a small channel and then a buff or debuff, while songs are mostly passive auras.
"Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!"
The songs really need a ring as a range indicator for positioning, but I love the dance animations!
Loved it. Will try to come up with better points later, but main point is "you have done literally what I wanted and described on stream, so I'm super happy"
i love to play bards but bards needs to play instruments not have a book flying about. Love the skills though
Personally Im fighting with the whole idea that every class can use every weapon. I love the floating book, even though it was quite big and looking bit out of place. I see mages using the book. Bards should have some instumets as weapons.
Regarding spell SFX, it would be cool to hear the "positive skills" such as buffs and heals to have a major scale sound (more happy sound) and "negative" debuffs and cc use a minor scale sounds (more sad sounds)
honestly i think the buffs (note icons) should do weaker and shorter buffs on base maybe even solo target but you can mix and match them into bigger effects like what they have now , would make that type of build a lot more fun and less broken and easier to balance and more music obviously + would fit with the bard theme , he already does that with the book thing that gives him the ultimate kind of ability (fire dragon and 3 others)
I liked the bard very much, the skills seem nice, even some are crazy OP. BUT the effects are again too bright and too big. A bard is not a mage and doesn't need big flashy circles around him.
Thanks for reducing the effect of the rangers multishot 👍
Welp, I don't think that archetype will be a good fit for me, it leans way too deep in support for my liking. But that's just personal preference, I'm sure those into that kind of role will love it, and it might still be interesting as a secondary archetype for one of my characters. I'm also not comfortable with how... passive isn't the right word... un-targeted(?) many of the skills are, it feels too indirect somehow. Again, personal preference.
I'm still kind of overwhelmed by the VFX in combat. Not only the bard, but all archetypes. Not being "there" probably doesn't help (camera height, knowing what/where I'm supposed to look, etc.), but I have a hard time following what's going on in combat, I lose sight of the enemies, and party members, in all the shiny colours. VFXs look cool, yet I'm still overwhelmed.
Book weapon was interesting, I'd make it way smaller though. It doesn't need to be as big as a shield. Size aside, I thought it was excellent.
Positive UI detail: I really like each melody/spells having it's own colours in the casting progress bar. I wouldn't mind if this was applied to all the archetypes.
I'm glad. As a Bard main, I've been waiting for this a long time. I'm not worried anymore. There may be other things I don't like about Ashes of Creation, but Bard is perfect.
I appreciate the variation and distinction between the categories: Melodies, Dances, Songs, and Sagas. They provide a good balance of the solid AoE buff foundation that bards require, as well as clear stylistic choices and the ability to play in a more mobile, active style. Sometimes Bard designs can fall into the 'buff bot' trap, but with what you've shown me, I'm not worried about being stuck in the Backline.
I appreciate Counterpoint, and will definitely be specing into that option personally. It's good to see how you've incorporated positive elements of multiple styles of Bard design from other games. Each 'school' of abilities seems to reflect a different philosophy on how Bard can work from a different game I like, and I'm more than ready to start putting the pieces together.
(On that note, solid ability naming. Crescendo and Counterpoint are well chosen, as are many others.)
The visual effects are wonderful. They're distinctive, they're easily identifiable. They're clean, and classy, and I love them. The SFX are solid too. At no point did I find them jarring. I know the team put a lot of work into that, and it has paid off. Good job!
You seem to have done a good job of developing Bard's own specific identity clearly without cheapening Cleric or other classes, nor leaving out any crucial components for fear of doing so.
I can say I was not expecting Sagas, but raining fire upon my enemies is going to be fun. I'm hoping for Ice and Light options in the future. Share some clips when those get fully fleshed out!
It was good to see you all having fun in this stream. But more than that, it was good to see a natural Bard play the class. The smooth flow of combat and the experience as a whole that this brings really helped me get a feel for what my own experience would be. Thank you Steven, for stepping aside and letting Bucky show off the gameplay. It really has helped improve the presentation and the quality of the stream as a whole.
Knowing that this is what we're getting is a weight off my shoulders. I'm excited to try it out as soon as you let me.
Dude, with all the respect U cant possible be a main Bard and think that this AOC bard is perfect. The way it is now its just a hp / mp bot. It's clearly very good and in the right way but not finished yet. A long path to go.
I would recomend to watch the whole thing again. Most of the skills are supportive. He have lil range of debuffs (only combo is incapacitated+stun, staggered + disarm) , most of debuffs are minor debuffs (staggering, chill..), the buffs are way more valuable then the debuffs. Ability point is a scarse resource. There 2 skills that gives AOE movspeed (thats really a waste of skill), there's no charm whatsoeaver, there's no mind components to the bard, he will be (the way its now) only a support... bards are about variety. Most MMO fail to achieve that and it become a slave supp class...
The PROS for me were the Quick Wit/tomato trow, the Mermerizing Dance (Incapacitates foes), The Gambit and the violino strike/Get Off The Stage (that should knock ppl out and knock back further- like the Blade Flourish from School of Sword Bards, from d&d) . In a visual sense its cool and all but in a gameplay sense, the supportive way is too much better than any of other options. They are in the right path at least. Not perfected, yet.
EDITED: Loved the Livestream as always. Here's my personal thoughts and feedback.
Pros:
group questing looked really fun and the right amount of challenging.
Bard abilities look stunning. Being able to cast and move during Flourish is so cool.
The musicality of Discordance sounded really really cool and looked cool.
The Conflict Saga Fire cone is sick and felt like a meaningful powerful spell.
The harp in the song abilities sound great
The spell book looks great (could be smaller and positioned around the player better while resting)
The mechanics and kit of the Bard seem engaging and fun.
Suggestions:
The Bard felt a little all over the place visually/thematically (specifically the madness dance didn't seem to fit?) I Read someones suggestion of having the Bard be more of a trickster, charmer, maybe throw rose petals and blow a kiss on mesmerizing dance. Stuff like that. Like throwing a tomato. Leaning into the quirkiness of the class might help with its identity. Get off the stage will be great for this once the knock back is added.
I was expecting the Bard to be more musical ( I know there is storytelling, music, and dance, but the connection between those three elements seemed a bit disjointed?) melodies is a WIP, i hope it adds a lot of musicality to the class.
I know audio is a work in progress But would love to hear more from the player POV. All the sounds kind of jumbled together and I couldn't really make out any of the Bard abilities?
Some form of visual persistence (besides the bar at the bottom) for the melodies to indicate which melody is playing? Again WIP SFX for melody might help with this.
The VFX all look great but maybe too much for each individual skill? the Bard kit seems super supportive which is amazing but when the Bard is using skills back to back it doesn't feel cohesive). Idk, again it just seemed to get lost thematically
Being able to actually play instruments in game, RP, is honestly my favorite feature in FFXiV as a newbie musician. I can practice music in the world of the mmo. like? Talk about immersion. I think you said that this was being talked about? But please please add it for launch 😭🙏🏻.
Thank you Intrepid for all the hard work you do and for giving us the opportunity to give our feedback 🙌🏻✨
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
Overall, the preview was excellent.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Bard matches my idea of a "true" support quite well. Instead of just looking at the raid frames and clicking heals like the cleric does, the bard seems to be about moving around the fight while solving (and causing) problems. Also, the melody weaving system seems to strike a good balance between buffbot and constant button mashing.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview? Excited
The large speed boosts are excellent, though I'd like even more burst speed!
The design of dances is in my opinion the purest essence of a support: Strong short duration effects in a small radius that promote awareness and postioning over passivity.
On the other hand, if someone truly wants to play a boring buffbot range dps, then that too seems to be possible.
While the effects and lighting were still problematic (especially when in dark areas), the bard vfx design is going the right direction. There were no bright flashes and the abilities didn't cover the action, but it was still easy to tell the abilities apart from each other.
The story based "ult" system seems both thematic and fun.
Concerned
Given that:
A big reason to have a bard in a group is the melody buff system.
The same melody buff from two different bards does not stack in any way.
There is a limited number of songs.
The melody buff affects all allies in a very large area.
Then it might be possible that a 100+ group would employ only 5 bards to cover the front and still receive full effective buff coverage. I fear that bards might face surprising benching issues in large PvP, because once all the melody slots (or the ones that are considered "meta") have been filled, then every bard slot is a wasted cleric or dps slot.
Conversely, since bard is a unique force multiplier, it might be mandatory to have a bard in every party past a small group to achieve anything. For regular party content, there might be bard shortages similar to tank shortages experienced in WoW.
I'm slowly getting worried about the status effect combos being too generic and prevalent between the archetypes. If everyone inflicts stagger, burn, chill and such, then the current system might devolve back into button mashing. If targets are repeatedly hit by bouncing/aoe/chaining status effects from various sources, then the combo effects will trigger constantly and randomly until DR kicks in and the targets suddenly become immune. I'm worried that the "combo" system is meaningless for anything but the smallest groups, since managing that sort of chaos is impossible from a single player's perspective.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Closest I've experienced is Neverwinter nights bard on pvp servers. On almost every server I played in, a team needed exactly one bard. Due to bard song/curse not stacking, having multiple bards in a team was not viable (or suboptimal at best). However, if an enemy team didn't have a bard while yours had one, then any fight against that team was basically unlosable due to the massive bonuses/penalties the bard song carried.
The most common support bards were built to be as tanky as possible, and then spent their time cursing, dispelling and taunting enemies, while healing and rebuffing allies.
A good bard player knew when to switch from hindering enemies to helping allies, and kept a constant awareness of every buff/debuff in the fight. Correctly played, the bard made both themselves and their allies extremely hard to kill by forcing the enemy to constantly rebuff, reposition and restore.
A bad bard player just sort of sat there and was basically a walking bard song.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
I covered much of this above, but here are some more notes:
I liked that the bard is not color coded the same way ranger/fighter was. The ability colors seemed intuitive but not "gamey".
The lively vibe is immaculate. This is the most expressive bard I've seen!
Melee bard options were missing.
This is not really about the bard, but the book placement seemed off somehow. Not sure exactly where I'd put it.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
Very good so far. Like said above, I'm pleased with the recognizability without the effects being overpowering. Maybe the shield effect from the safety dance was a bit too large and bright? Also, I didn't like the loud "woosh" effect associated with the bouncing notes, but the notes themselves were nice.
Bard looks great, having many passive and active skills to switch between and manage. The ultimate that changes based on what buffs you use, and the health swap that is an open ended high risk ability. The best class design I've seen so far from Ashes of Creation.
It did make me think of something that I would like to see in other classes, now that I'm seeing the way the stats work it reminds me a lot of mobas. The downside for me with that system is if their aren't enough abilities, that don't scale with offensive/heal stats. It feels very restricting when trying to make your own things out of a class. The life steal and the health swap were the main cases of this for me. the health swap looks like it will decrease your HP and give it to the target, or vise versa. Up until the lower health person gets to the percentage the higher health person was unless one of them gets brought below 20% hp. Meaning it essentially scale with your total health, with just the life steal plus the health swap it opens up a lot of builds that can be effective without focusing on healing/magic stat. And that is what I want to see in more classes, is the ability to bridge the gaps between the roles. Not by having all the classes be similar, but by having unique abilities that give you the creative freedom to make your own play style.
Just wanted to give my feedback on the book.
Size is fine, but I think it should only be in front of the character weaking havoc during a fight. In its resting state, to the side of the character, and when running it might lag behind a little bit (but still on the side of the character).
Just my opinion.
Looks pretty good, I definitely liked the group dynamics. Gambit especially looked like a ton of fun.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
It looked very versatile, weaving in and out of situations and applying damage/buffs as needed. Very dynamic and fitting for the class.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm excited for the customization possibilities, being able to choose your instrument opens it up to make everything from a flamboyant flute-wielding jester to a dour saga-spinning Dunir with a set of drums and a grudge to settle.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
The flourish slide was awesome! If you get the chance, adding a couple variations to it would be the icing on the cake.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
The VFX are a little overtuned IMO. I get that you want them to be very expressive and colorful, but the kaleidoscope explosions, neon shockwaves, and pixie dust sparkles make the class feel more like a DMT mage than a bard -- and that's not even considering the visibility issues it causes, especially in dark areas. Also wasn't a huge fan of the spotlights that spawned in during some of the dance abilities, that felt kinda tacky.
Everything was amazing. Only thing that looked iffy and anticlimactic was Apocalypse. Saga mechanics were interesting.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
Apocalypse animation was underwhelming all up until Steven showed 2d animation for it...
Here is suggestion that fits in overall aesthetic of Bard:
-Use 2D animation, but make it so that models looks like a cutout puppets like in Victorian paper theater.
-Instead of dragons head make a whole dragon cutout that spews cutout fire as it flies by
-Animate moving models like its puppeteer show so it seems like they have joints. Guild Wars 2 character intros and Gwent cards animation.
-Fade the edges of animation so it looks like its magical in nature. Like blur resembling faded memory.
-When animations finishes it burns like a very flammable paper.
Everything was amazing. Only thing that looked iffy and anticlimactic was Apocalypse. Saga mechanics were interesting.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
Apocalypse animation was underwhelming all up until Steven showed 2d animation for it...
Here is suggestion that fits in overall aesthetic of Bard:
-Use 2D animation, but make it so that models looks like a cutout puppets like in cardbox theater, puppet show or shadow puppeteering.
-Instead of dragons head make a whole dragon cutout that spews cutout fire as it flies by
-Animate moving object like in puppeteer show with joints. Guild Wars 2 character intros and Gwent cards animation.
-Fade the edges of animation so it looks like its magical in nature. Like blur resembling faded memory.
-When animations finishes it burns like a very flammable paper.
I really hope to see a more CC/utility focused angle as we progress. My idea of bards comes more from D&D where they have some lockdown measures against enemies.
The auras are nice and I appreciate the sort of combo system behind the saga, but they seem like the type of class to be next to useless if alone given the lack of self-peel and weak sustain for themselves.
I really liked all the melodies, songs and dances. Though it felt like there wasn't quite enough mana support in the kit. Maybe we didn't see as many of those abilities, since it was hinted that the Mystery sagas help with that, but the melody that regens mana seemed like it should be a bit more impactful. It's hard to say since we'd kinda need side by side footage of combat, one with the mana regen and one without, but there were still several times in the fights where you had to disengage, or stop and sit. Maybe its just my personal preference that you shouldn't need to do that as often as it was needed, and I'm not sure what the design teams' vision is for the Bard's ability to regen mana.
Only thing that concerns me is Gambit. Could be used in a super troll fashion. I understand the potential utility of it, but I don't think allies should have abilities that take away my agency/control as a player. Let them sacrifice their own health if they want, don't touch mine.
It immediately reminded me of a White Mage ability in FFXIV that was basically a leash that would pull allies to them (assumedly so they could save allies from AoE's), but man it sure felt like they would use that ability just because they could. Hated being in parties with White Mages cause of that.
I get the counter of don't party with random Bards, or just party with Bards you know. It is a cool concept, but I feel like it will stigmatize the class. Maybe they had a bad day. Maybe they're drunk. Maybe they fat fingered the ability on me or just feel like Gambiting my health cause they can. I don't want to be on edge for a Bard simply existing in my party. I should feel stoked if I'm in a party that has a Bard.
Comments
Seeing the bard makes me think there is experience ramping up in the combat team. I think the quality of the archetypes are in exact order of their chronological reveals. As someone who will main rogue or summoner this makes me very excited!
The longer preview format allowed us to see it more in context so thanks a lot for providing it.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
I look at the bard as an enabler of classes, allowing them to enhance other classes using utility effects aside from providing their own damage and healing. The bard was showcased having some of these like CC, chill effect and chrono boost. These things are what I enjoy the most because it allows me to coordinate with my teammates to control or set up damage spikes. The flourish ability is an amazing addition to allow some slipperyness. Where the cleric can keep themselves alive I believe bards are more of a kiting class.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm really curious how different weapons will impact the bard. For this reason I was hoping to see the daggers, because they feel like they really break the bard's theme if they are the same animations as the dagger showcase we once saw.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
The bard in Lost Ark has an amazing kit that allows for a very active playstyle.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
So far it looks amazing. There are a couple of things that I would like to see:
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them
I would like the instruments to play a slightly bigger role in the animations but honestly the VFX and SFX are all great and I'm very happy with them.
First of all, I love bard and this has so many elements of my ideal "dream" bard. The incorporation of storytelling, dancing, singing, etc. It all adds to that element that the bard is not just some caster with a musical flavour. That being said, the one tiny thing I would have loved to have seen was some "feats" or "stunts" (to try name the category) skills that incorporate the bards weapon.
For example a bard with a sword and shield supporting the front line with an elegant overly flashy melee move that inspires and buffs allies/demoralizes enemies. Or something silly like a bow shot that makes rangers attacks easier to land as follow up by painting the enemy pink. I love how there's so much cleric synergy and support towards being a backline participant, but these would just really cement into that dance, blade, and flourish theme and letting bards truly be the jack-of-all who can fill in the missing link to the party. Like how in the showcase if the bard was able to have frontlined it would've supported the party synergy more due to how you had a ranger+mage dps combo. (I fully get that composition wasn't taken into consideration for the dev showcase and its purely a purpose of showcasing raw gameplay and the spell book weapon, but this was just a note I had).
One final thing,
you said on the stream "Every archetype can use every weapon", but does that mean that archetype skills can alter based on the weapon? For example, we saw the fighter with a 2handed weapon doing very MEATY cleaves in that showcase- but does that alter if they're, for example, using daggers/light weapons. Vice versa, what if that bard was to have used a sword? How would it feel considering most of its stuff seem ranged and independent on the weapon.
Thank you all for the hard work, dedication, and transparency you give to your community. I cannot wait for Alpha2.
1) I feel like a large majority of the class playstyle revolves around heals or off heals. In my opinion, dropping a few more direct dps skills, DoTs or more offensive buffs would be great as it gives the players a difficult choice to either spec into health support vs dps support. Heck it could even be like an entire different line of skills (aside from melodies, or dances) like shouts or ballads. In my opinion, this creates a unique opportunity for both players and groups, as you have to make the difficult decision of survivability vs DPS.
p.s: We see some great utility support and they are amazing. I absolutely love that.
2) I love the melodies, I think they are an excellent set of skills. If i were to suggest something, it would be to add an active skill that changes based on the type of melody active. A flourish if you will, ala Bards in FF14. The skills could be like single target heals, or single target mp recovery, or single target or aoe dps. Again, it should be dependent on the melody being played. In my opinion this adds another layer of weaving that plays really well with the melody system already implemented.
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
Honestly, what can I say? My wall of text is smaller than I thought because I am speechless and have nothing more to say. You have portrayed the Bard exactly as I envisioned it. Bravo!
I played a Bard class in Dark Age of Camelot and fell in love with this archetype. Thank you for capturing something so beautiful and bringing a smile to my face with this class during the showcase.
I've seen many inspirations from other games, and you have captured everything that defines this support role for me. Visually, acoustically, and in terms of gameplay, it was all there, just as I know and love it.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Flexibility which it offers within a group. You've clearly demonstrated this in the stream, and I love the idea of being able to adapt and contribute in various ways depending on the situation.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Besides Dark Age of Camelot... *quick think* Ragnarok Online, Rift, Lord of the Rings Online (though technically a healer, but fits the role), and Project Gorgon, the Bard archetype often shares core characteristics with the one you've shown. The main issue I found in Ashes of Creation's Bard was the use of combo and builder/spender mechanics, which I found problematic.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I also appreciated how the livestream addressed things that came to my mind while watching, such as updating the health display and working on hiding the weapon when disarmed. It's great to know that these aspects are being actively worked on.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
I'm still struggling to understand the status effects on which other skills build. A clearer explanation or simplification would be helpful here. Not a huge fan of combo skills.
What I definitely do not like is the builder/spender mechanic of the Saga skill with the tragedy builder. It feels out of place in this class, as if it doesn't belong to this playstyle.
During the Q&A session, it was mentioned that all buffs and similar abilities require a group. Please change this so that they can also be used solo.
Everything else looked otherwise top notch. Especially had fun watching the Gambit skill.
Overall I don't think this bard have many versatility, I will get into this further in the follow answers (and on page 4 of forums on each spell/skill)
A lot of things looks great but a lot of things look unpolished either. U are in the right direction.
Since there's a lot of ppl already talking about the good ol' part, I would like to jump into the other part also.
I hope any of us Bard players can help devs with perspective to future patches.
Bard is great, should be a class with a variety of gameplays, mostly focus either in support or disrupt but that could also get their way into fighting if needed. Bards are great to roleplay. Bards are great to the enviroment of the game.
I'm concerned with a lot of things, imma list som of them.
CONS
1- BARDS SHOULD HAVE CHARM . This is self explanatory, maybe change the staggerd skill to give charm. Maybe the Marionette skill from the Wiki will be that one. They need mind control / mind numbing skills. The lack of illusions also was a downpoint. Hope they think of that, even if it is when u mix Bard+mage or Bard+rogue
2- Bards are great if they have - out of combat skills -, they could give hp regen or such, even small buffs in professions if u heard a bard playing in the city's tavern or something. That add to roleplay and to the envyroment.
3- This bard doesnt look versatil. The way its built now, if u dont play him support u will waste ur time in this class. All supp healing/buffs are way better than the damage or disruptive/debuff/CC skills. As a Bard DnD player I can confirm that most ppl DONT pick suport healing, instead we make more use of illusion magic/mind control. This class lacks that, besides that sleep/incapacitated and Dark Lullaby, there's almos nothing that seems like a bard mind control skill. Bards should shine in CC and single target control. They can be a great support but almost every MMO makes bard a healing/buff only class and this is really boring. This Bard so far is no diferent.
4- Bards need more double face/dual function skills/ability. As I recall there's only the wit tomato trow thing.
Maybe u could save that awfull movspeed skills song/dance that gives 5s movspd buff like that... I just dont see any player spending skill points in a skill that its not that usefull, the effect doesnt last at long, if u make it double faced, maybe giving slow to enemies, maybe, just maybe, u can save it. The dodge buff to this skill doesnt seem like it would add great value to the skill.
5- We need more bardish skills like that Quick Wit/tomato trow thing, Gambit and Get Off the Stage. This are bulls eye right there, Touchdowns, Gols, make more stuff like this and u will get it right.
6- The violin hit (Get Off The Stage) should knock enemy down and kock back further away. The range of the push should be good enough to drive ppl away from the Bard. In the Stream looked like the enemy isnt pushed back at all and they said they will probably change it. U could just see the Snare being usefull but not the knockback. It would be an awesome joke to throw ppl off cliffs with this and also would give more versatility to melee. ( Would be kinda similar to the effect of blade flourish from Sword College Bards from DnD).
7 - Even if the bard is not a DPS main focous, I noticed that a lot of damages are Magic. It would be nice to see this balanced with physical dmg so ppl could mix more. This could bring variety. Now it looks like a buff focus mage.
PROS:
The good things are mostly the animations, the interaction between group, the songspells sinergyze alongside with soundtrack, there's a bunch of buffs...
Sagas are worth the time on this class. They are truly amazing.
I will edit a further comment into this Forums to adress spells and abilities. What felt really good and what could be improved. I think ppl talked a lot about the good stuff so Imma focus on the not so good *yet to be improved/implemented* stuff also, the deep dive into spells/skills is on page 4 of this forums.
In Ragnarok's Bard/Minstrel~Dance/Gypsy, there's a skill called Tarot Card Fate. U guys made something similar with that tarotlike skill ( Gambit ) that could change HP. The way u guys could improve this is either creating more skills like that (with random effects, buffs or debuffs, with risk ) OR make it able to use it on adversaries (with minor changes like : trow a coin, if they get lucky, u lose HP and they gain, if U get lucky, they lost HP and u gain, or they get fear/stun/slow/staggered/entangled/confused... anything u guys want (even randomize the debuffs)). The way Gambit works, right now, could easily drive ppl away from bards. Ppl probably will think twice into adding a bard into their groups with a spell that potentially could troll all the pt. Could be also funny as hell. Also its worth mentioning that Professor class (from Ragnarok also) had a similar spell but changed MP. In the beggining a lot of ppl trolld, a lil short later ppl used normally as should be.
There'r so many DnD spells that could go well here, Crown of Madness, Hypnotic Pattern, Cause Fear, Dispell, Glyph of Warding, Slow, Charm, Charm Monster, Command, Control, Compulsion, Confusion, Silence.... so many... bards need mental compulsion skills/spells. They are a mental focus class. More protective either (from mental conditions), he does not have a CC breaker yet, a Cleanse or a Dispell.
I think the Bard need more combos. There's the Disarming, Staggered + Stun (thats hard to pull out and single target), whats more? The improved healing over time? Well... I mean, the AOC BARD ressonate well with a group ( he have chillin, staggerin etc) but as a single character is lacking, u could improve this so much, I trust u guys.
I feel that the bard should be one of the most blessed AOE CC (or protective AOE) classes, should have acess to a lot of possibilities in terms of Crowd Control. Just my point of view. In terms of defensive supp, I think this Bard have potential but still a diamond to be polished.
Give it more possibilities of debuffs and conditions (confusion, stuns, slows, knockbacks, knockdown, charms, etc) to the bard, at least this, even if they only trigger after u use a combo of skills, ike ArcheAge
Also, the incapacitated/stun combo could give u lifesteal (nigthmare - such as dream eater pokemon move). Its hard to pull this combo for a lot of reasons, I would make Dark Lullaby AOE or instacast.
I wanna see more combos like this one. The bard should be able to confuse ppl, making them laugh in the ground, make them dance, make them be fascinated (like in Mesmerizing Dance), making them hypnotized about som light in the sky...
The animations are great, very amazing indeed, its cool to see songs and dances mixed. Probably the best thing in this class so far.
It would be cool if the mix classes (2nd class) add visual effects such as a Bard with Tanker his sword flies around (dancing sword). When I use Flourish with Bard/Rogue or Bard/Mage I would like to see Illusions left behind the trace to fool enemies. If i'm a Bard Summoner I would like to see a debuff where I summon rats while playing a flute. The multiclass system could fix and improve a lot of the Archetypes (but I would still play this game without it and wait for later patch implement).
I kinda want to see a variety of instruments (matching the MIDI in the magic effects of such instrument).
CONCLUSION
Intrepid is doing a fine job on the Archetypes. The Fighter and the Bard are probably the most polished but the Bard still need a rework on a lot of things (specially on those movspeed skills). Bards need the versatility to be something besides a full support. The way the build is designed right now there's no motive to make any build besides full support hp/mp. All mmo have done this already... mind the fact that there will be limit skill points available.
As someone who likes the book I think the weapon needs to be a bit faster and I really wanna know how the dps compares to faster weapons. I'm looking forward to seeing the skill tree for book. I love the current size although I'd be comfortable with it being like 10% smaller than it's current size. The disjointed animations between book and caster look smooth and natural.
My only critique for bard is that it's sleep ability does not look like a sleep ability. The color, the sharpness of shapes in the fx's, and the sharp sound effect do not feel like a sleep ability at all to me.
I don't think the knock-back for get off the stage needs to be more than 5 meters. I think it'd be cool if active blocking reduced the amount of knock back significantly.
Good work team. And thank you Dr. Bucky for doing this class justice. I'm looking forward to Summoner getting a similar treatment.
Bard Class
I had positive vibes from seeing the bard and its abilities in general. There are some minor things and tweaks that I might want to see changed.
There are currently 5 different Melodies.
- Cheerful (Healing)
- Pensive (Mana Regen)
- Epic (Movement Speed)
- Cathartic (Lifesteal / Leech)
- Menacing (Damage amplification)
These are all what I was expecting to see except for the leech, which I absolutely welcome. I think these are nice and fit the style of the class that I'm expecting to see when I hear "Bard". They feel like iconic abilities that capture the essence of what a bard actually is. They're not incredibly powerful on their own in a vaccum, but they require something else to happen as well. I think they're perfectly slotted in terms of mechanics.Animation wise, I feel like the active effect could be toned down a bit. I think having something that moves closer to the ground and instead of having big flashing lights on the targets (looking at Cheerful specifically here) the targets could be outlined with the same yellow hue. Feels like it would be less visual clutter and better readability when in a combat scenario.
Big effects should be reserved for big abilities.
Post cast, there's currently no visual indication on the targets (aside from the buff ofc) that they're affected. I do believe that this is the correct choice since again, it's a minor effect and doesn't need to be visually tracked by enemies and allies. It's good.
There are currently 4 different dances.
Dances are not what I think of immediately when I hear "Bard", however I'm absolutely not against it. I actually think it's a nice addition. The question is though, what kind of purpose should they serve and how should they work?
It looks like at the moment that two of them (Shielding and Nimble) are just more intense version of the melodies. I feel like this is a missed opportunity and that they should have a totally unique mechanic of their own instead. Nimble dance for example, instead of providing movement speed it could provide CC reduction, more fittingly snare / immobile immunity. Shielding could be a damage reduction instead of a flat shield.
Now we reach Mesmerizing and Maddening. Mechanically i've not gripes with them, it's mostly about the animations and that they're too flashy. There's too much happening on the screen which prevents readability.
The actual dances, the characters movement I think is fantastic, I wouldn't change a thing, but there simply is too many effects going on that makes the game more difficult to parse. Especially when it comes to the distortion effects, it feels like art is being prioritized over function. There's no doubt in my mind that you'll be able to find a good middle ground, but please think twice about the distortion effects.
Mesmerizing dance in particular I feel like it needs to have some flare to it to properly convey the message to other players that they're being crowdcontrolled. I would probably change the cast time to be instant, but I don't know about that yet.
Clearly a work in progress spell. Knockback needs to actually be a knockback if you want a knockback. Otherwise just make it a normal interrupt, maybe add a very short silence effect. Not much else to say about it in its current iteration.
Epic Melody is just a basic bread and butter type spell. Nothing wrong with this. However, I really do like how the music is timed with the actual heals. That's a very nice touch and I really appreciate that design. Great job!
Anthem of Alacrity is such an interesting spell to have access to. This is why I like to play as bards, I like buffing and supporting and this is exactly what this kind of class should bring to the table. Now the question here is, does it need a cast time? Why can't it just be instant cast? I would argue that having it instant cast would probably (since I havn't played the Bard yet) make the class feel better to play. I would also actually remove the spell effects from the caster, but maybe increase the ones on the target. I'm not quite sure if there's dispells present to remove enemy debuffs, but I feel like that should be the counterplay instead of interrupting the bard. We would gain visual clarity and possibly make the class feel better to play by making these 2 changes.
My initial reaction to Chilling Lament is that Bard seems to have no baseline way of actually freezing a target? If that's the case, then why would you have something that only gains benefits when a specific class is interacting with your target in a specific way. That honestly feels like bad design because you're losing out on a lot of power in the spell. Hopefully i've missed something here and you can freeze as a Bard, but atm I cannot see it.
Animation wise it's ok, it doesn't feel very bardic and I don't like the tunes being played the way they are. Each repetition of the tunes feels like they're clipping on the previous repetitions end causing it to sound poorly made.
Dark Lullaby though, this is the exact opposite in terms of mechanics. This has a very well built in combo with one of the other readily available skills. This is amazing and I love the design. Not only does it benefit from your Mesmerizing Dance, but it can also benefit from other players incapacitate. As mentioned in the video/stream, this spell has a rather unique effect where its damage doesn't break the incapacitate effect, which is so cool!
Unfortunately the animation is way too much with all the special effects above and around your own character. There's barely any animation going on on the target however. In addition to that, because of how the entire spell is animated it's very deceptive, because it looks very much like it's a semi-big AoE spell, but it's actually a single target spell.
Bottom line, animation needs a total rework, mechanics are awesome and the music playing is fantastic.
Discordance is meant to be something of a chain lightning type ability is my understanding, it bounces between mobs. Feels like a half thought out ability. It feels like it should be a short cast where all three notes fly at the same time rather than individually. I'm also thinking how this sounds like when applied in a group setting with multiple people using multiple abilities, because it's being mentioned (55:10 in the video) that when these bounce around there's going to be a lot of sound, again making it difficult to parse important information. The sound itself sounds nice and I like it, but I don't think it'll work well in a multiplayer setting, and considering that this is in fact an MMO, that's quite an important aspect.
The spell idea itself is something I like and can get behind, the execution not so much.
I love it. I love it so much. It feels a lot more though through than some of the previous entries because it can only be used on allied players (even restricted to party, might want to broaden it and open up to raid members). It's such a cool ability that I feel can absolutely have a unique spot in the Bards expansive toolkit. This is one of the few animations that I really like and I'll break it down.
There's 2 main components of the animation, there's the line between the players, indicating to everyone that these two targets are being connected by something, what is that though? That's where the second component comes into play, the cards above their heads. One card is a golden yellow and the other is red. This clearly signals to all other nearby players which player has gained health and which player has lost health. Magnificently designed.
I do wonder though, is the correct approach to have the players swap raw health and not % based? I don't know the answer to that yet.
The Saga uses Stories to build up "themes", this is something I can get behind, it's some sort of preplanned gameplay. I don't know enough about how this actually plays to have a proper opinion. But at the very least there needs to be some proper UI change to track the "themes" have and how many of each, the current iteration does not cut it at all.
There were 4 different versions of the Saga, 3 of them requiring 3 of each "theme" and then the last one with 1 of all 3 different "themes". How would this work out gameplay wise when you're already at 3 "themes" of 1 and then feel the need to use an ability that grants a different "theme" right before the Saga comes off cooldown? Feels clunky at first sight so I will have to play with it to get a proper opinion.
Until then though, how I would design it is for it to be dynamic. Either the main effect (since there's currently 4) will be chosen based on the last "theme" added and then it's power will be determined by the other two "themes", more of the same matching color adds to that spells effect.
The Stories themselves are what I like about the Bard, it's the buffs, it's the debuffs, it's the group play. I want to see more of them to give proper feedback since currently we only got to see 2 out of the 6 available, but so far i'm very intruiged by them.
Yes, yes yes. Especially the songs. AoC looks like it has rather mobile combat, and i'm relieved to see that the bard doesn't have to stand stationary for 20 seconds, and that dances can also be used while moving. This is a huge W imo. Adding to that, the ability to cast other spells while playing a melody also feels like a very important part of the design.
I look forward to getting my hands on the Bard in A2 or maybe even a spot test, there are some things that I can't really talk too much about without having played it.
Group Play
This is more about the general gameplay and what happened in the video as a whole, not so much focused on the bard.
One of the biggest gripes I had with the gameplay was the visibility and readability of the situation. While outside it was a lot easier, but still rather messy. Inside though, it was borderline impossible to see what was actually going on on the screen. There were so many flashy effects coming from all over, combine that with the distortion effects that being generated by certain spells, such as the mage's ball lightning and one of the bard spells. That makes everything very difficult to parse and take it. Now we add the "realism" that Steven talked about where if you're standing in a bright or well lit area and you look inside of a building (which is dark) it's difficult to see inside of the building. These effects were being replicated by the light emminating from the spell effects, causing the terrain and everything else to turn pitch black. Why this is so bad can be perfectly examplified when there's a call for retreat and Steven is struggling to find his way out, because on the screen everything's pitch black and you literally cannot see where to go.
I want to touch more on the sound design as well. I know that it's been mentioned that the new upload should hopefully have better audio, but before I get to listen to that, I'll comment on what I got to experience. The audio was nothing short of a complete mess. There was no clarify what so ever. It was borderline impossible to recognize any one spell from the other or any other action being taken in the game. Voice audio from the players were crisp so it didn't have anything to do with volume.
I have no listened to the new video and it's a significant improvement, but it still feel a little of chaotic. There's room for improvement but at the very least it's not as bad as it was on the livestream itself.
What I believe to be a big part of the problem here is that each spell is designed in a vacum by itself, not taking into account all the other things that'll be going on at the same time on the battlefield. That goes for both the sound and the visual design. Not everything has to be flashy and have lines indication the direction from where it was sent. Not every spell needs to have a loud rumbling sound just by charging up the spell. Mage chain lightning was a very big perpetrator there.
I'm very happy to see the melodies skills which I'm used to from Aion the Chanter class had "mantras" which were quite similar and they just made playing that class super fun. You move faster, regenerate more hp/deal more dmg... I especially loved the lifesteal effect and the fact that we can have 2 melodies at the same time. I would love to set the melody active and it just lives as a passive buff until I change to other melody and then cooldown starts.
The other exciting spell was saga "Armagedon saga" was just incredible. Im curious about the dmg. It looked like a huge AoE nuke. Id love to see the balance between focusing on few abilities but leveling them up and making them super strong versus spreading between multiple different abilities. I know we are too early to really see that
When it comes to instrument animations Im not sold really. I don't know what I miss but I miss something. I think the idea of every class can use any weapon, that I don't really like and in previous game I played, bard used the instrument as a weapon of magic type. I still can't see bard using sword and then playing some melody on harp or flute? It confuses me a little.
VFX looked great! honestly I would love to see the spell icons be themed together a little bit like if its a heal it could be more yellow ish icon, if its nuke it could be red/purple ish icon. SFX I have to replay it loud in the future.
Im afraid with the spells, you showcased bard with basically full kit which idk if it's possible ingame but It looked okay to me. Im afraid if we have less skills ingame if it won't be boring. Im really into having 20 different skills and comboing them rotating them all. Also because the bard spells are affecting area around him, he could use more mobility. I loved the dash ability, It needs good cooldown/multiple stacks or something that makes it quite reusable.
Overall I loved the showcase and can't wait to try it out myself.
"What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?"
Bard seems to be really fluid and fills a ton of nieche aspects and rols in the group.
Need mana? We got you. Need some extra oompf behind healing in burst windows? Shure, we got a song for that! Debuffs? Yep, we got them as well! We can dash into the thick of it and drop shields then sleep everything around us to run away or stay in the backline or in the middle of a zerg and buff our allies.
"Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?"
I am a bit concerned about Bard viability in solo content. The damage seemed low and most of our build is centered around helping others first and foremost instead of buffing ourselves. It would be cool if our dances would also damage enemies when pressed.
"Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!"
My absolutely most favourite Bard EVER was the Chanter from AION. They worked by invoking mantras (basically auras,) debuffing enemies and buffing allies, when pressing attacking abilities. The one thing I dont want to see for bards are motionless, channeling mana batteries or health bots. Give us the ability to hurt our enemies, while helping our allies.
"What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?"
So far, it looks really good. Like I said, the damage seems low (but Alpha be Alpha) and some more interaction between helping allies and damaging enemies would be awesome. I love how you seperated songs, dances and ballads into specific types of abilities. Ballads are short and quick, dances are a small channel and then a buff or debuff, while songs are mostly passive auras.
"Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!"
The songs really need a ring as a range indicator for positioning, but I love the dance animations!
Personally Im fighting with the whole idea that every class can use every weapon. I love the floating book, even though it was quite big and looking bit out of place. I see mages using the book. Bards should have some instumets as weapons.
Thanks for reducing the effect of the rangers multishot 👍
I'm still kind of overwhelmed by the VFX in combat. Not only the bard, but all archetypes. Not being "there" probably doesn't help (camera height, knowing what/where I'm supposed to look, etc.), but I have a hard time following what's going on in combat, I lose sight of the enemies, and party members, in all the shiny colours. VFXs look cool, yet I'm still overwhelmed.
Book weapon was interesting, I'd make it way smaller though. It doesn't need to be as big as a shield. Size aside, I thought it was excellent.
Positive UI detail: I really like each melody/spells having it's own colours in the casting progress bar. I wouldn't mind if this was applied to all the archetypes.
Dude, with all the respect U cant possible be a main Bard and think that this AOC bard is perfect. The way it is now its just a hp / mp bot. It's clearly very good and in the right way but not finished yet. A long path to go.
I would recomend to watch the whole thing again. Most of the skills are supportive. He have lil range of debuffs (only combo is incapacitated+stun, staggered + disarm) , most of debuffs are minor debuffs (staggering, chill..), the buffs are way more valuable then the debuffs. Ability point is a scarse resource. There 2 skills that gives AOE movspeed (thats really a waste of skill), there's no charm whatsoeaver, there's no mind components to the bard, he will be (the way its now) only a support... bards are about variety. Most MMO fail to achieve that and it become a slave supp class...
The PROS for me were the Quick Wit/tomato trow, the Mermerizing Dance (Incapacitates foes), The Gambit and the violino strike/Get Off The Stage (that should knock ppl out and knock back further- like the Blade Flourish from School of Sword Bards, from d&d) . In a visual sense its cool and all but in a gameplay sense, the supportive way is too much better than any of other options. They are in the right path at least. Not perfected, yet.
Pros:
group questing looked really fun and the right amount of challenging.
Bard abilities look stunning. Being able to cast and move during Flourish is so cool.
The musicality of Discordance sounded really really cool and looked cool.
The Conflict Saga Fire cone is sick and felt like a meaningful powerful spell.
The harp in the song abilities sound great
The spell book looks great (could be smaller and positioned around the player better while resting)
The mechanics and kit of the Bard seem engaging and fun.
Suggestions:
The Bard felt a little all over the place visually/thematically (specifically the madness dance didn't seem to fit?) I Read someones suggestion of having the Bard be more of a trickster, charmer, maybe throw rose petals and blow a kiss on mesmerizing dance. Stuff like that. Like throwing a tomato. Leaning into the quirkiness of the class might help with its identity. Get off the stage will be great for this once the knock back is added.
I was expecting the Bard to be more musical ( I know there is storytelling, music, and dance, but the connection between those three elements seemed a bit disjointed?) melodies is a WIP, i hope it adds a lot of musicality to the class.
I know audio is a work in progress But would love to hear more from the player POV. All the sounds kind of jumbled together and I couldn't really make out any of the Bard abilities?
Some form of visual persistence (besides the bar at the bottom) for the melodies to indicate which melody is playing? Again WIP SFX for melody might help with this.
The VFX all look great but maybe too much for each individual skill? the Bard kit seems super supportive which is amazing but when the Bard is using skills back to back it doesn't feel cohesive). Idk, again it just seemed to get lost thematically
Being able to actually play instruments in game, RP, is honestly my favorite feature in FFXiV as a newbie musician. I can practice music in the world of the mmo. like? Talk about immersion. I think you said that this was being talked about? But please please add it for launch 😭🙏🏻.
Thank you Intrepid for all the hard work you do and for giving us the opportunity to give our feedback 🙌🏻✨
Overall, the preview was excellent.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Bard matches my idea of a "true" support quite well. Instead of just looking at the raid frames and clicking heals like the cleric does, the bard seems to be about moving around the fight while solving (and causing) problems. Also, the melody weaving system seems to strike a good balance between buffbot and constant button mashing.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
Excited
Concerned
- A big reason to have a bard in a group is the melody buff system.
- The same melody buff from two different bards does not stack in any way.
- There is a limited number of songs.
- The melody buff affects all allies in a very large area.
Then it might be possible that a 100+ group would employ only 5 bards to cover the front and still receive full effective buff coverage. I fear that bards might face surprising benching issues in large PvP, because once all the melody slots (or the ones that are considered "meta") have been filled, then every bard slot is a wasted cleric or dps slot.Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Closest I've experienced is Neverwinter nights bard on pvp servers. On almost every server I played in, a team needed exactly one bard. Due to bard song/curse not stacking, having multiple bards in a team was not viable (or suboptimal at best). However, if an enemy team didn't have a bard while yours had one, then any fight against that team was basically unlosable due to the massive bonuses/penalties the bard song carried.
The most common support bards were built to be as tanky as possible, and then spent their time cursing, dispelling and taunting enemies, while healing and rebuffing allies.
A good bard player knew when to switch from hindering enemies to helping allies, and kept a constant awareness of every buff/debuff in the fight. Correctly played, the bard made both themselves and their allies extremely hard to kill by forcing the enemy to constantly rebuff, reposition and restore.
A bad bard player just sort of sat there and was basically a walking bard song.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
I covered much of this above, but here are some more notes:
- I liked that the bard is not color coded the same way ranger/fighter was. The ability colors seemed intuitive but not "gamey".
- The lively vibe is immaculate. This is the most expressive bard I've seen!
- Melee bard options were missing.
- This is not really about the bard, but the book placement seemed off somehow. Not sure exactly where I'd put it.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!Very good so far. Like said above, I'm pleased with the recognizability without the effects being overpowering. Maybe the shield effect from the safety dance was a bit too large and bright? Also, I didn't like the loud "woosh" effect associated with the bouncing notes, but the notes themselves were nice.
It did make me think of something that I would like to see in other classes, now that I'm seeing the way the stats work it reminds me a lot of mobas. The downside for me with that system is if their aren't enough abilities, that don't scale with offensive/heal stats. It feels very restricting when trying to make your own things out of a class. The life steal and the health swap were the main cases of this for me. the health swap looks like it will decrease your HP and give it to the target, or vise versa. Up until the lower health person gets to the percentage the higher health person was unless one of them gets brought below 20% hp. Meaning it essentially scale with your total health, with just the life steal plus the health swap it opens up a lot of builds that can be effective without focusing on healing/magic stat. And that is what I want to see in more classes, is the ability to bridge the gaps between the roles. Not by having all the classes be similar, but by having unique abilities that give you the creative freedom to make your own play style.
Size is fine, but I think it should only be in front of the character weaking havoc during a fight. In its resting state, to the side of the character, and when running it might lag behind a little bit (but still on the side of the character).
Just my opinion.
It looked very versatile, weaving in and out of situations and applying damage/buffs as needed. Very dynamic and fitting for the class.
I'm excited for the customization possibilities, being able to choose your instrument opens it up to make everything from a flamboyant flute-wielding jester to a dour saga-spinning Dunir with a set of drums and a grudge to settle.
The flourish slide was awesome! If you get the chance, adding a couple variations to it would be the icing on the cake.
The VFX are a little overtuned IMO. I get that you want them to be very expressive and colorful, but the kaleidoscope explosions, neon shockwaves, and pixie dust sparkles make the class feel more like a DMT mage than a bard -- and that's not even considering the visibility issues it causes, especially in dark areas. Also wasn't a huge fan of the spotlights that spawned in during some of the dance abilities, that felt kinda tacky.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
Apocalypse animation was underwhelming all up until Steven showed 2d animation for it...
Here is suggestion that fits in overall aesthetic of Bard:
-Use 2D animation, but make it so that models looks like a cutout puppets like in Victorian paper theater.
-Instead of dragons head make a whole dragon cutout that spews cutout fire as it flies by
-Animate moving models like its puppeteer show so it seems like they have joints. Guild Wars 2 character intros and Gwent cards animation.
-Fade the edges of animation so it looks like its magical in nature. Like blur resembling faded memory.
-When animations finishes it burns like a very flammable paper.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/304555993556946917/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_theater#/media/File:Toy_theatre_(c.1845-50),_Edinburgh_Museum_of_Childhood.JPG
These kind of animations for Apocalypse.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LmHui2souG0
Just maybe don't include frame of the theater? It might look better.
You Sir/Ma'am are god damn genius.
The auras are nice and I appreciate the sort of combo system behind the saga, but they seem like the type of class to be next to useless if alone given the lack of self-peel and weak sustain for themselves.
Only thing that concerns me is Gambit. Could be used in a super troll fashion. I understand the potential utility of it, but I don't think allies should have abilities that take away my agency/control as a player. Let them sacrifice their own health if they want, don't touch mine.
It immediately reminded me of a White Mage ability in FFXIV that was basically a leash that would pull allies to them (assumedly so they could save allies from AoE's), but man it sure felt like they would use that ability just because they could. Hated being in parties with White Mages cause of that.
I get the counter of don't party with random Bards, or just party with Bards you know. It is a cool concept, but I feel like it will stigmatize the class. Maybe they had a bad day. Maybe they're drunk. Maybe they fat fingered the ability on me or just feel like Gambiting my health cause they can. I don't want to be on edge for a Bard simply existing in my party. I should feel stoked if I'm in a party that has a Bard.
- Shaiya circa 2007-2008 - Guild Wars 2 circa 2014-2016 - ArcheAge circa 2016-2018
- Black Desert 2019-2024 - ESO 2021-2024 - FFXIV(fake pvp)2021-2022