- **Group Contribution:**
- Will the bard's contributions be significant compared to other classes? If a group has 12 spots and one spot is still free, why should I choose a bard over another healer or DPS class? As a bard, I don't want to feel like the fifth wheel in a group.
Spell Variety
- **Redundant Spells:**
- Why should I fill my bar with multiple tunes and dances when we're likely to use the same three or four spells due to mana constraints? Even during the battle demo, you used the same few spells repeatedly.
- Consider replacing some spells with area-of-effect DPS dots or burst spells.
Humor
- **Entertainment Factor:**
- I miss the sarcasm/humor and entertainment factor of being a bard. It would be great to see more of that reflected in the animations and spells.
Mobility/Survivability
- **Agility Playstyle:**
- The bard would benefit from having a fast and high-mobility/agility playstyle.
Spell Suggestions
- **Duplication Spell:**
- Adding a spell to create duplicates to confuse enemies would be interesting.
- **Spell Stealing:**
- It would be cool if the bard could steal spells from opponents.
- Make them dance spell: instead of stunning them, make them dance. :-) Like the Piper scene from Shrek! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPGvX43RmA
Other:
Highlight the Instruments: Ensure that there is adequate focus on the various musical instruments. It shouldn’t just be about the book; explore the different types of instruments, their unique appearances, and skin designs.
Balance the Sound Levels: The volume of the instruments was too low, especially in contrast to the loud roar of the tank. Adjust the sound levels to create a better balance, allowing the instruments to be heard clearly.
The Book
- **Design Feedback:**
- I like the floating book, but the blue accents are a bit too large for my taste. Consider looking at the Tomorrowland Book of Wisdom for inspiration.
- It would also be cool to have animations on the pages themselves. (See Tomorrowland Book video for reference.)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
Great: This showcase was probably the most well-structured (overall) showcase. I like the description/role/bg of the archetype. I like the skill overviews. I love the gameplay demo (thank you Steven for allowing Bucky to pilot).
Could use work: While I understand lighting is a work in progress- I felt a lot of the showcase gameplay inside the structure environments were so dark I couldn't tell what was happening, It was hard to locate the targets (friendly or foe). I have attached an image to show what a simple UI addition (outline/highlight) could do to benefit the user and make it more user-friendly to identify hostile and friendly targets in darker areas, that are currently focused/selected. We have seen this in many modern games, and think this would help with better game experience. Hostile:
Friendly:
Maybe expand this to all selectable characters?
Obviously, these are very crude proof-of-concept. Still, I believe the UI & engineering team could modify this simple UI enhancement to make the gameplay more readable, and thus accessible for everyone. You would have agency on what colors you'd like to use for different targets like: hostile, friendly, party, raid, boss, etc.
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
I liked it, it looked like a good class.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
The buffs seemed pretty good.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
Yes. Less rainbows and pink fireballs. The damage also seemed a little low, it should be lower then other classes but still able to solo.
I also noticed that all abilities will scale with magical power, concerned about the viability of using martial weapons as a bard.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Yes, I’ve played support classes in other games. Nothing really to expand on here.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
Combos looked good, the sleep looked a little too long. I’d suggest different timers, one for against players and one for against mobs.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
I prefer martial weapons.
1
KalnazzarMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2
**Subject: Feedback on Bard Archetype Showcase**
Dear Ashes of Creation Development Team,
I recently had the opportunity to review the Bard archetype showcase and wanted to share my thoughts on what I feel is missing from the archetype. While the ability to choose a main instrument is a great feature for players who want to hear instrumental sounds during combat, I believe the archetype would benefit significantly from a focus on vocal hymns and melodies.
**Key Points of Feedback:**
1. **Vocal Hymns and Melodies:**
- For players who envision their bards as singers, it is important to hear their characters sing. Currently, abilities meant to represent sung songs use a harp sound, which lacks the emotional impact and passion that vocal performances can bring.
- I suggest implementing an option for vocal performances, allowing players to select a singing voice for their bard. This would add a layer of personalization and immersion, making the bard archetype feel more dynamic and expressive.
2. **Sound Toggle Feature:**
- To address concerns about music playing for all players, consider adding a toggle option that allows players to turn bard music on and off. This way, those who enjoy hearing their bard's music can do so, while others who prefer silence can opt out.
- Party members could have the option to hear their party's bard music if they have the toggle turned on. This feature would enhance gameplay.
3. **Voice and Music Customization:**
- Upon creating a bard, players could choose a voice selection and a singing voice selection. These choices could be tied to racial music themes and even allow for duets if there are multiple bards in a party.
- Imagine the richness this would bring to the game: a Dünir dwarf singing an epic ballad akin to "Misty Mountain Cold" from The Hobbit or a Niküa dwarf performing a rhythmic song similar to "You're Welcome" from Moana. Each race could have multiple vocal options and unique songs that players can learn from class teachers or discover while exploring ancient civilizations.
4. **Musical Inspirations and Examples:**
- Incorporating a variety of musical styles, such as dark opera (e.g., Diva's song from "Blood+"), "Diva's Song" from "The Fifth Element," and "Dark Waltz" by Hayley Westenra, would greatly enrich the bard's repertoire. The Ashes of Creation team could use this opportunity to create their own music, making the world more engaging and rich with lore. Unique, racially themed music would deepen the immersion and connection players feel towards their characters and the game's world.
In conclusion, adding vocal performances and more music customization options to the Bard archetype would greatly enhance the player experience. It would allow for deeper emotional connections to the characters and provide a richer, more immersive gameplay experience. Thank you for considering this feedback, and I look forward to seeing how the Bard archetype evolves.
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
It was very exciting. I'm now condifent that Bard will be my first choice. Anyway I have some comments.
The mana regeneration seemed a bit low, even out of combat. It felt irrelevant for me. I would like to be a bit higher. In comparation, the rest of melodies seems to have more impact.
I like the idea of using "Tarot" cards, but I would love to see more skills related with them. In Ragnarok Online Bard Job had an ability where you could draw a card and randomly apply one effect to your enemy (or to yourself). It could be good or bad, but it was supper funny to have a random skill with a higher impact.
I love that Bard is more focus on regenartion over time and not big heals.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
To feel that my class is necessary and not only for buffing allies. I think you're doing great with that.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I missed some more damage/debuff abilities. I would like the class to be a bit more independent (of course being better in group compositions). I think auras/dances won't be effective in solo playing and I don't like the idea of always needing people in the group.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Check Ragnarok Online Bard/Clown/Minstrel abilities. I enjoyed a lot playing it.
More feedback coming. Suggestions for 2 more Augments
DPS: I would love to see a mix of AoE dots and ST ranged attacks that are centered around 20% doing less damage then other DPS specs that also do debuffs. Slow attack speed and casting speed. Snares and roots. Crippling effects that lower melee damages and other skills that will debuff spells damage.
Main Healer spec: This would not do that same volume of damage as a Cleric but would have solid ST heals but their skills would be more about HOT songs that also add better damage buffers, also increasing things like Stats like Str, Sta, Dex and other things like that. Maybe even a song that helps with mitigation of damage. With a raid, such a bard would be needed along with a cleric.
The bard is great but I do feel that the spell book feels separate from the character. That book floating around doesn't feel right. The book is fine, but let it be part of the character, let the book be in your hand. Apart from that I would like to feel like a bard like a bard playing instruments.
For the different kinds of stories, I'm assuming there will be a "comedy" story. I just thought the "pop up book" type visual for this one could be one of those jester marionettes with a bat that they would use in puppet shows.
The class looks great! love the dances and the mobility. I think instruments definitely need to be implemented more, but I love the story teller approach you took instead of the traditional musician.
Really well done! I enjoyed the detailed description of the Bard abilities followed by real gameplay. The Dev's playing together showed off the Bard well and showed how interesting and dynamic the gameplay of a team can be.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Exploring the different build options, combining Melodies with the Dances, seeing what kind of synergies can be utilized. Can you use a quick weapon combo with the Bard weapon buff proc for strong offense? Can you spec towards stronger mana regen? Can you use mesmerizing dance with Dark Lullaby as a main combo to damage enemies while CC'd? Can you build the bard focused on healing enough to be a main healer? These are all things I'd like to experiment with.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm excited about the melody system and twisting songs. I'm hoping for deeper spec options that allow the Bard to keep more than 2 melodies active at once.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
The Everquest Bard was my favorite Bard iteration (also the first) I've played, and I'm hoping the Melody Twisting described by Bucky in the live stream will be expanded as an option in the Talent Tree.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
My least favorite ability in the showcase was Anthem of Alacrity. I LOVED the visuals, but the effect seemed quite lackluster. A 2 second cast time ability to give only one ally a 10 second haste buff seems quite weak. Ways to improve it would to be make it instant cast for the Bard, make the buff last longer, or make it a group wide buff with a longer cooldown.
My favorite mechanic is the Melody twisting using the Music Mastery talents. I'm hoping the Counterpoint talent option gets expanded to allow for more customization for bards and more options for twisting songs. I detailed some suggestions for the Music Mastery talents in this post:
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
I thought the animations were amazing! The sound effects interacting with the game soundtrack was especially impressive to me. My main critique with the visual effects is the intensity of the colors covering gameplay. There were times during the livestream (especially in dark buildings) where it seemed impossible to see what was happening through all the spell effects and bright colors. I know there are lighting changes in the works, I just hope the intensity of spell effects does not visually clutter the player experience.
On a personal note: the ability "Get off the Stage" where the Bard knocks back an enemy using their instrument, while quite funny, feels unrealistic for any real musician. What instrumentalist would ever bash somebody wearing plate mail in the head with a wooden flute? It would break, and then they'd have NO instrument! Maybe a description can be added, like "the Bard coats their instrument in magical power," which can explain away why your character is trying to break their instrument over an enemy's head?!? I'm a clarinet player and I'd be down $3000 if I did that!
Regarding marking mobs, it appears currently the marks stay on a target until the person making the mark removes it or moves it to another target. It is one thing to have the marking player be consistent with updating the marks when it comes to having the group focus on one mob. But when a mark is not updated, it's another thing for the mark to stay on the screen permanently.
Throughout the video, marks stayed on the same target, even when it was a dead mob. A marked dead mob does not seem necessary. It might be nice for a mark to disappear off a target if that target dies. It would reduce confusion of players for which mob to target, it might visually signal to the marking player to place a new mark, and it would reduce clutter on screen.
Hm, I think this bard looks more like a flashy disco mage than an actual bard with an acoustic instrument using magic. I don't know if it's only because of those big blinding skill effects and ground symbols that ruins it for me or if there is something more. Also, that sound wave circle around the bard looks way too electronic and a bit off in a medival high fantasy setting, it gives me Octavia vibes from Warframe.
The animations and movments looks really cool though.
I really wish the skill effects for all archtypes got toned down, and with that I mean a lot, and more focus on unique and interesting animations. The skill effects doesn't have to cover the entire screen, it doesn't have to be super much details with big symbols on the ground and such. Less is more.
I could barely see a thing due to all visual clutter during the fights. In my opinion, game swith this much visual skill effects looks cheap, it's like they trying to hide poorly made combat animations and visual integrations.
The spellbook looked okay, but maybe it doesn't have to be so big and don't need to be flying while out of combat or when weapons are sheathed.
My feelings exactly. The spotlights that spawned in during some of the dance abilities were particularly weird to see.
I get that they're going for a high fantasy setting where magic is common, but magic can take other forms besides a thousand variations on exploding neon plasma.
For example, why not replace the EDM hulahoops with a songbird that flutters around your character while mimicking your currently active melody? If you need it to be color coded, just make the eyes glow.
And for the dances, I'd much prefer if they just kicked up dust in interesting patterns rather than spawning in an entire pyrotechnic light show.
I know they said they want to have sliders to reduce the visual clutter from abilities, but that just seems like the wrong approach. They wouldn't even need sliders if they scaled back the use of glowing streaks in favor of dust, air distortion, blood, sparks, geometry smears, blur effects, and of course high quality animations -- which we'd actually be able to appreciate, because they're not constantly being occluded by a thousand overlapping supernovae.
Also environmental effects, like the Tank's stomp ability sending a shockwave through foliage, and creating cracks on the ground. That, combined with good animation and SFX, is really all you need to make something feel good. Save the flashbangs for truly impactful ultimate abilities, like Saga and Cataclysm.
BARD: I like the visuals but i am not the fan of the class. I dont really understand the need to introduce a class which revolves around music in a game like this. Its like when Blizzard put kung fu panda in their game..
Id rather put a cool type class such as shaman/druid/necromancer/conjuror.. you name it..
Imagine you are a deadly rogue with bloody daggers, fighting a dude who plays a flute ..its so strange..
Looks like that crazy singer from Asterix and Obelix
The spell when Dragon appears and blows the fire - IMO the character himself should just conjure the fire, there shoudnt be additional mob appearing to do the fire. Its like being a hunter and having your pet do some things. I would like to be the one that looks responsible for conjuring the spells :P
Other than that, for the game itself, the buffs/spells which have area of effects, i would not make them move with the character, but remain cast in a place where they were initially cast> the visuals which move around the character while it walks don't look good, it looks fake.
MAGE: : I wish there were more Snare/Root/Freeze/Stunn/Knock away/Wind away spells for area control, Mage should control the weather like that and be able to have more crowd control spells. The other classes as well. (i.e. Cone of cold, Frost nova, Entangling Roots, Stomp, Thunderstorm..
As for the Ball of Lighting, i view the spell as it has no purpose.. If you are fighting a player with average IQ, there is no way that the spell is going to hit him, let alone hit him for longer than .5 seconds. It serves no purpose other than it looks cool (also doesnt look like it belongs in the game)
(btw im not a hater, i LOVE the game and i cant wait to play it, im just putting my thoughts out there )
Overvall, I liked the bard and his abilities. Seems you achieve to avoid the trap of the buffbot.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
The base set of abilities are a great starter for the next levels, but I'm hoping for more diversity in the "orientation".
By orientation, I mean to be able to play a bard in a dedicated team of physical ranged DPS for example, or a dedicated team of physical melee DPS. For now, the bard seems to have mainly magical attack.
If I may draw a parallel, as a former player of Lineage 2, I used to play BladeDancer in archers parties and I was assisting my team with, of course, dances but with my bow too and some debuffs.
Sure, the BladedDancer can't be really transposed like that in AoC, but I would love to get the same feeling I had by playing a support first but an off-physical ranged DPS too.
I don't expect to see any specialization like I described before at the beginning, but more when we choose our second archetype. For instance, Bard/Ranger could modify existing skills to fit more to a ranged physical team.
Of course, everything I said also applies to fighter oriented, rogue oriented, mage oriented or, why not, tank oriented, ect... In the case of the bard, I really see the second archetype has a "path" to become an off-X (X being the second choosen archetype)
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
As said earlier, BladeDancer in L2 and of course his "twin" class, the SwordSinger in some aspect. As the bard have some AoE CC, It remind me the OverLord too in L2, which was a buffer, a CCer and an off-healer.
I liked there playstyle back in the days, but now they feel really static, that's why I saw the bard as a modern evolution of this kind of classes.
On an other topic, I found the monsters who fought Steven and the dev team maybe a little bit too easy. Monsters were higher level but except when the team pulled too much, they didn't feel to be in danger. @Tryol highlighted this concern some posts before and I agree with his feedback.
Finally, I think I need to really play the bard to give you a true feedback instead of relying only on the showcase.
As bard is without a doubt my favourite class or theme to play in almost all MMOs and roleplaying games like DnD, I really wanted to sink my teeth into this devupdate and try to provide as informative an opinion as I can. With that being said, I will potentially reference the wiki page, the livestream, or previous quotes or comments made by staff from other panels/livestreams. A lot is my own personal opinion, but I do hope that it helps to, at the very least, turn gears in developer brains to help them flesh out the image of what they perceive is Ashes of Creation’s Bard Archetype. If I can, I’ll also clip videos and give references if something comes from outside of the bard archetype showcase.
Above Question Responses:
• How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview? Overall, I really like the Bard Archetype’s preview. I feel that it is very much, for the most part, capturing the essence of what constitutes to a bard class in games. The goal of being a proactive supporter to the part and boosting the ability of others in their respective role is great. However, I feel it does have a bit too much straight up healing and supports clerics as an off-healer a bit too much. If power budget is a concern for future additions and suggestions, perhaps alleviate some this healing for support to the rest of the party.
• What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?For me, what excites me the most is being able to make my bard stand out as unique and different to other bards. Perhaps through the selection of skills and my archetype choice. I am also very excited to tomato the face of some my friends in duels.
• Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview? I will say that the archetype, outside of its dances, feels too long-range mage-like. My hope was for there to be another type of bardic theme, feats/displays/performances that involve the bard doing flashy actions with their weapon to debuff/inspire those around. This would essentially be the way they’d augment the DPS combatants respectively while your songs and heals augment the cleric. Perhaps a sword move that debuffs the enemy in various ways, and if used during flourish would become an AOE blade an flourish type of combo. https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxqs4EReCvL6yvG2077q1A1F6g_rLO6Yhc?si=VcmGLkOAQ_z9cZpw
• Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain! Bard is a classic for a lot of games, however the games that excel with the bard are the ones that encourage freedom and allow it to fulfil many different fantasies and roles. The bard is ultimately the “off-class” of every single role and depending on how its specs, can cover a party weakness. That being said, games such as FFXIV portray the bard simply as a ranged bow user with music magic, or Lost Ark and making it just a music mage which a lot of people have made comments on wanting to avoid. These are the troupes I’d like to see avoided and so pulling inspiration from DnD or DDO for the versatility of the class but modernising it would be the perfect approach.
• What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos? I think these are off to a great start and are in the right direction. I think categorising the bardic stuff into songs, melodies, dances, stories, etc is a good way to do things. I would suggest adding a few more and then perhaps making it not possible to acquire all categories. This way a players bard feels unique in how they entertain and inspire their comrades.
• Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them! I really like the direction of trying to make them fit into the ambience and setting rather than just overpowering the scene.
Comments others raised: I just want to share my opinions on a few things that others have brought up either here or during the stream.
• Bard can’t solo: This idk where people are getting the assumption from. It has life steal, heals, an attack speed buff (it was shown working on the user if targeting an enemy), butt loads of cc, and some respectful magic damage moves. Ultimately, we can’t say that bard can’t solo just looking at this preview, so I will actively test it during Alpha 2. However, a few more offensive moves would be appreciated.
• Bards giving “town buffs”: Please for the love of God, no. I respect those who enjoyed this, but it is a relic of the past in old MMORPGs that should stay as such. Ashes of Creation is very much tugging on the nostalgic souls of MMO gaming veterans, and I completely get why people may want this. But it will just lead to buffbot alts or unnecessary bloat to the skill tree of a bard. The resources should instead go to active stuff the bard is doing. You have also stated wanting to avoid buffbot gameplay. Example, Rose online cleric buff alts just sitting in towns for campfires OR following your main char around. These mechanics are either mandatory or worthless and create a slippery slope. Don’t do it, please.
• Bard feels to “mage”: This point I do agree with given the showcased skills. However, I am assuming that the intent is to add many more skills as the class is expanded upon and, with skill point restrictions, we will be able to diversify how we fight. I’ve said it before, but weapon showmanship/ feats/ performances/ maneuvers would be a great category of bard skills that can allow each bard to feel unique and avoid just being another magical backline caster support.
• Button Bloat: Considering that you have stated many times that you do not intend for every skill to be unlockable with the amount of SP and that you want players to have a large degree of diversity in how they build so every player feels unique, I feel that the amount is completely fine. Also, Bucky was only level 10, and the level cap is 50. Unless after 25 your SP goes towards your secondary archetype augmentations, we can assume there is many, many more skills to come. This is fine, nothing was out of the ordinary for an MMO and if anything looks like healthy to me.
Comments on Skills: If I don’t write about a skill, I likely have no comment or feel someone else addressed it in the comments prior.
• Melodies: I love the melodies and the latter option to alter how you use them encouraging potentially weaving of two. That being said, I think that the presented options definitely should use looking into further. Another one could be “Music Mastery: Vibrato” which extends your melody durations by X for Y seconds upon executing a full melee weapon combo. Let’s the bard have a tool for when they’re in the thick of things.
• Resonant Weapon: LOVE this but I feel a few could be changed. Cheerful should instead provide a shield not a heal to diversify things as bard right now has way too many straight up heals. It steps more on clerics territory rather than “enabling” the cleric to shine.
• Fierce Wit: Should be spirit damage not fire, to fit with the demoralising feel of being tomatoed to the face.
• Lovely Serenade: I think it should be a shield and a small heal received buff. Again, enabling the cleric to be able to time their heals to buff them to do their job rather than taking away from it entirely.
• Shielding Dance: This is the head scratcher for me that kind of brings together the point I keep making. Bard has too much direct healing. Why does shielding dance shield only at the end, and instead heal periodically? It would make more sense to apply a shield every second of its duration and a heal at the end. Bard should be trying to create openings for the allies to shine in their role. Providing healing received buffs and temporary shields to give the cleric time to shine will promote healthier moments than simply the bard being able to heal so much the cleric can sit back. We should want the people in the party to feel they are getting to do more with their stuff because of the bard, not the bard doing more so they can do less.
• Sagas: I agree with above comments that this feels kinda weak for all the necessary build up. You also have to account for the fact you have to preplan and specifically aim towards one. I think either make the theme generators faster to account for the power, or really go over the top with these and make their scale much bigger.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, I really appreciate the effort and thought put into making an identity for the Ashes of Creation Bard that is unique and fun. I really see the love, care, and passion that the developers have for the game in how the ideas come together. I have highlighted my concerns and praises above; however, if I had to pick priorities I would say:
• Bard needs physical offensive moves to fill the “dashing scoundrel” “son of a B*” theme we love and associate with bards. Sword maneuvers, etc. to prevent bard being just a music casting song mage.
• Change some of the healing skills to be more shields and healing received buffs to let clerics and player self-heals shine more rather than simply stealing their spotlight or making their job easier by taking away need. There is a different between enhancing a roles ability to perform their tasks, and just doing their task for them a bit.
• A bit more rigidity to the categories of bard skills, melodies, songs, dances, etc so that not every bard can simply do all the above but rather specialize into 2 or 3. This will be make everyone feel unique and able to entertain and tell their story in their own way. Of course this is assuming you're adding extensively more skills.
Questions for August 16th. in order of which I would appreciate answered if can only pick 1.
• How will archetype skills change depending on the weapon equipped? Since weapons don’t give active skills, do you not feel that an archetype will encounter problems if they try differing from a specific norm. For example, the ranger obviously requires a bow, but can they find ways to use skills while also wielding a lance? A fighter using lighter fast weapons instead of the meaty greatsword shown in the showcase to use their skills. Will the skills change to accommodate this, or will you have to add X skills to cover every weapon type to each archetype that logically uses a weapon to do specific skills? (fighter, ranger, rogue, tank, and bard respectively).
• At what level from 1~50 will players stop unlocking new active skills to try learning, 25, 50,etc? Will the SP used to learn skills also be then used to learn augmentations for those skills from your secondary archetype?
Thank you for all the hard work and I am sorry for the sheer bulk of a post this is, but I wanted to put some passion into my thoughts and feedback in response to the passion and hard work you all put into making this dream of a game.
I am very much looking forward to Alpha 2 and am loving most of the things that have been shown about this game in general. The graphics, atmosphere, lighting changes, and visuals in general are very immersive to me, and I know it's all still in progress. However, when you start showing abilities, it kind of takes me totally out of the immersion.
I'm going to explain why, and obviously, this is only based on my opinion, but I've seen this critique mentioned quite often.
1. Big, colorful, and contrasting VFX that literally block your vision with your own spell casting.
- One screenshot shows the bard casting a spell with a cheap little circle around the character and a big red card over his head with such contrasting colors. It completely takes me out of the immersion and even blocks vision right in front of you. Why do these spells have to be a color fiesta?
2. Here are some examples of the color fiesta and fireworks that make this fight look completely cheap in my opinion and don't add any positive aspect to the gameplay.
3. Effects in general are way too overloaded with color and don't even have any global light reflection/impact on the game, which makes it even worse in my opinion.
If I cast a colorful spell, but it only lights up my monitor without lighting up the immediate surroundings, it just looks cheap and like the game is from the year 2000, even though it's beautiful.
So, I wouldn't focus so much on colors and more on the animations and environmental impact to show the power level of a spell. The fighter class, in my opinion, does a good job showing strong force spells with massive environmental impact while keeping the color at a decent level (not all, but most of them).
4. I know that making environmentally impactful spells will also have an impact on performance, but I would rather decrease colors and color variation and instead make decent, well-animated spells that feel immersive.
I know this is all a work in progress, and except for these things, I am perfectly fine with what has been shown so far. But this actually makes me kind of sad because I don't want to be pulled out of immersion, especially in dark places where all these bright and colorful spells won't change ANYTHING about the environmental lighting.
I played Bard in Everquest 1, Everquest 2 (Dirge), Dark Age of Camelot (Albion, Minstrel), Vanguard: Saga of Heroes & ArcheAge. I play a bard mostly wherever I am given the opportunity. I am a musician in real life, also an indie game designer (I won't share my game here out of not self-marketing but it's at least shipped and completed lol, I also did all the sound and oversaw composition for this title)- so when I say that Bard game design is really near and dear to my heart, I mean it.
The AoC bard looks great, I'd say overall a 7/10. I am concerned about the Dances. They feel modern and out of place in a high fantasy setting, especially hurt by the super modern icons that look like they belong in a Dance Dance machine. I'd much have preferred the Dances to be akin to "blade" dances instead, being entirely combat focused either offensively or evasively, but combat nonetheless. I am also a little bit curious as to the lore explanation of an ability as powerful as 'gambit' - this sort of life/essence magic definitely feels more in the wheelhouse of Clerics, even though I'd love to have that in my toolkit lol.
RP Composition: I very much enjoyed the concept in ArcheAge of being able to compose your own music- it meant you could actually RP as a Bard, and I do feel like RP is in general a very neglected aspect of MMOs. Especially with names like "flUffyKittenz" running around, the immersion quickly dissipates. Sorry, tangent.
Anyway, being able to manually 'get good' at both composing and playing music in game is a super fun pseudo tradeskill for any bard. By this I mean the literal production of sounds from an instrument using a Midi sort of system.
In terms of gameplay composition: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was troubled by poor finances, and it's a pain on the MMO genre that Brad McQuaid (Designer of Everquest and Vanguard) will never be able to improve on that legacy due to his unfortunate death in 2018. But as usual, he sprinkled in MMO brilliance with the Bard. First in Everquest (1999) they pioneered songweaving, and in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes they built on that legacy very well with a system where you could place 3 itemized components to 'write' a song. So for instance you had an intro, a chorus, and a solo or an outro, and each of them had multiple different options.
Depending on how you slotted these items, your song would have differing effects. So you could compose a song, give it a name (the name would also appear on your party's status effects which was a nice personal touch), and socket it with the different song components. If you wanted a speed song, you may want to slot all sockets with Movement Speed, but you could also write a song that gave Movement Speed and Armor if you wanted to put a more defensive spin on it, or Movement and Attack Speed if you thought your party would charge into a fight. This system was really fantastic, and it's criminal we didn't get to see it fully fleshed out in a completed MMO. Here's a link to a guide on it: https://vanguard.fandom.com/wiki/Song_Composition_Guide
Then finally, in terms of Sound design- the actual sound design is amazing. I was a bit confused by how many times I heard lutes/harps for a character that had a flute equipped, but I assume all bard abilities that have music/sounds associated with it will eventually match the chosen instrument, so I assume this is just WIP? Overall, sounds great!
In conclusion, your guys' abilities look super smooth, the animations are good and the designs look fun more than anything and that's the most important thing. Sound is fantastic as well.
I would however like Bards to be kept traditional- I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but for most of us MMO grognards, nostalgia is important in keeping the dream of Ashes of Creation (and MMOs in general) alive, and if we fly too close to the sun, I do fear that we lose that magical heritage that got us all hooked on MMOs in the first place. I am all for progressing the genre, absolutely, but I do feel the dances take away from the fantasy setting, and does more harm than good.
Really loved the Bard showcase, it felt like everything a Bard should be aesthetically. As a decades long tank main, I think I can see myself switching to a Bard main.
If I were going to add a critique, I think it would be with the Flourish animation. A flourish is usually an extravagant gesture. While I love the idea of the skill, I think the animation should be a bit more showboat'y. Adding a quick forward flip or tumble leading in to the slide would add significant flair to the skill. Looking at the animations on the dances, the Flourish animation just seems lackluster for a skill that, by definition, should be anything but. Otherwise, it's perfect. ...Maybe a Talent option to break Root CC's, but nothing I'd lose sleep over like the animation.
Gambit is a great ability and reminds me of the old WoW Paladin Divine Intervention skill, where through extreme sacrifice you can save an absolute clusterf of a situation.
Another thing, not sure of the Bard/Tank class being called Siren concept. Withholding judgment until I hear the rationalization of the concept. For me, a Bard/Tank sounds like it would be more of a Bannerman or Flagbearer - someone to rally the troops.
Anyway, looking forward to more updates, especially the roadmap in August. And of course, Alpha 2. Oh, and the Character Creation tools. Oh, and... well, there's a lot to look forward to!
Edit: Oh, and Saga is AMAZING. Can't wait to see the final animation, the mocked up version was incredible!
Really need to stress that Dünir should have movement animations showing extremely heavy/sturdy/muscled bodies, not dexterous/agile/nimble. Front flips should be entirely off the table.
How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview?
On a personal note: the ability "Get off the Stage" where the Bard knocks back an enemy using their instrument, while quite funny, feels unrealistic for any real musician. What instrumentalist would ever bash somebody wearing plate mail in the head with a wooden flute? It would break, and then they'd have NO instrument! Maybe a description can be added, like "the Bard coats their instrument in magical power," which can explain away why your character is trying to break their instrument over an enemy's head?!? I'm a clarinet player and I'd be down $3000 if I did that!
You've never fantasized about using your instrument as a weapon? I hope they add a visual weapon breaking effect to "Get off the Stage" and then you just pull out another one, kind of like a certain taunt from TF2
Questing feedback.
The way the quest works in the preview is you there are a few pages of big walls of txt and I think this has a few issues.
1) it takes way to long to read it all and it makes you feel pressured to skip it for the group. this even happens in the stream he starts to read it then clicks though to get moving I like lore but most of my friends don't and this will happen to me often. IMO anything more then 10-15 sec to read will make me feel like I have rush.
2)I have a bad memory and quest txt is a one time thing so if I forget what was said I'm out of luck.
How I would address this is the NPC would have a few txt options 1 is the quest very simple and short "we are overrun by x kill y collect z" then another options are for what's happening right now that you can come back to and read later if needed with much more detail and a 3rd option for the history and lore of the place. I hate that this is the case but in group content you simply don't have time to sit and read about the lore of the area.
Bard feels like a great "fine control / max skill combo" class. The frost spell that procs Frozen means good arena synergy with Frost / Lightning mage and kiting potential for 2v2 arena. The Haste spell ( Power Infusion from WoW basically) in conjunction with soft CCs ensures fine synergy with burst builds by speeding up animations. This for me is a great touch when it comes to arena pvp, in both spectacle and gameplay, where CC and burst win a fight. What could be improved is adding a buff (name it "Call and Response") that gives an extra attack / spell to allies that time casting to a bard's ability use. For mass pvp it is what the bard is, a good bait. Weasel that can escape and kite into an smbush.
For PVE it is as advertised, a mana battery and an AMAZING heal potential when it comes to melee healing/mana builds, but this will be tested when the time comes. Just alliws us to deal magic dsmsge with some melee weapons. The tank buff spells slso make for a great dedicated "Warsinger" build that buffs the tanks in s raid by acting as extrs mitigation cooldownd. The "dps" spells were fine.
I got to say, I play with music off when it comes to MMOs so I can listen to sound cues, but one thing I have to mention, some of the Bard spells had a very sharp compression ratio which might be a youtube encoding issue but had to mention it, way too boomy.
Lastly, Steven, my man, add an Arcanoelectric Guitar. Verra needs to learn about Rock n' Roll. Make it look like a Les Paul for bonus style points.
Loved everything about the bard! You guys NAILED it! (And my entire community got hyped about this stream!)
I see a lot of people not being a huge fan of the book - I just wanna voice that I loved it. Perhaps it could be scaled down just slightly, but I did not find it "out of place" or "cartoony" in a bad way!
WOW this update blew me away!
I have not had my eyes on the bard class at all until now. The reason why I have not had my eyes on a bard class is that I thought it might be another class with a stupid ukulele that is mediocre in everything he does.
I have been interested to play healer (cleric) and some kind of melee dps. Now im thinking bard might be the better option for my healing cravings. The bard seems so fun to play and so unique. So I really hope Soulweaver [bard + cleric] is going to make a viable healer aswell, just different.
So to answer what excites me about playing bard is kind of the same reason why I would play healer. To keep my party alive with healing and supporting them in making the killing process as easy as possible while I hang closely behind them.
Top things about the Bard.
1. Unique class that has a clear vision what it is. Everything from armor, spells, spellname, visual effects and so on is so on point and makes sense.
2. So many satisfying abilities and sounds. Top ones i think was discordance and lovely serenade how they timed perfectly visually with the audio.
3. Floating book. Really unique and interesting. Was surprised how much I liked that book.
Not much else to say than congratulate the devs on catching the essence of what a bard class could be, bravo!
First some feedback regarding the theme/saga mechanic.
Assuming that you will be capped at 3 themes (which could be wrong of course, but i think this feedback would be good regardless), I feel like there should be a way to discard individual themes for a penalty or consume individual themes in some way.
I think this is important because that way, youre not locked into having to use a certain saga you may not want to use anymore to reset your themes. I can think of many scenarios where youre building up to use a certain saga, but conditions change and youd much rather use a different saga instead. If you could discard or use the themes individually, I think it opens up a lot more decision making and gameplay depth for the bard.
Another thing i think would be better is if the mana regeneration melody would instead decrease mana cost. Even though the overall effect might be similar/the same, I think that it would be more fitting for the bard as it would be a buff rather than some generic resource regeneration thing that you can get from many other sources.
I also wanna say that the animations and spell effects of this archtype were the best ive seen so far! The only thing id personally change is to remove the spotlights from the dance vfx, i think that they dont really add anything but clutter. Regarding the other spell effects though, i still think that especially the cleric vfx are just way way too bright. I dont really understand why every spell has to be some type of bright neon color, it just looks really weird IMO.
The spellbook weapon was also great in my opinion, love the aesthetic of it floating in front of you!
Excited and intrigued, it made me curious about playing this. I like the concept of support, I'm curious as how to effective a bard could be to off-heal, or heal in a duo/trio scenario, or against various elites.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
How the Bard can integrate and combo with various other Archetypes, such as the status effects. As I likely won't play Cleric, I'm interested in how it'll hold up as a pseudo healer in certain situations (questing for example). The 'twisting' element of having multiple songs up is great. I like the positional requirements of some abilities, such as proximity or the 'cone' of the saga ability.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm excited about the potential synergies with other Archetypes. I'm concerned or curious to see how a Bard feels in solo play.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
Only Augmentation Evoker in retail WoW. It's balancing in PVE has been an issue since inception. I like the combos, that seems like a great idea between selecting an appropriate ability in the moment, whilst working toward the a Saga, or vice versa, going for a Saga and choosing the required abilities. I think that coice seems fun.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
The instrument animations were good, albeit quite subtle (not a criticism). They were overshadowed by the spell book, and the size/position of the spell book. I had to rewatch the video and actually pay attention to the flute animations to review them. I'm indifferent about the animations, I think they are fine.
The VFX of the bard are good, I'm not crazy on the florescent colors of some abilities, I'd consider toning these down to more 'pastels'. I recognize there is a balance of these needing to be readily identifiable visually, however I don't want them disrupting the visual theme (fidelity?) of Verra.
First some feedback regarding the theme/saga mechanic.
Assuming that you will be capped at 3 themes (which could be wrong of course, but i think this feedback would be good regardless), I feel like there should be a way to discard individual themes for a penalty or consume individual themes in some way.
I think this is important because that way, youre not locked into having to use a certain saga you may not want to use anymore to reset your themes. I can think of many scenarios where youre building up to use a certain saga, but conditions change and youd much rather use a different saga instead. If you could discard or use the themes individually, I think it opens up a lot more decision making and gameplay depth for the bard.
Seconding this, a 'Plot Twist' type mechanic would be one of the few things I can think where you actually have a real choice if to spec into it or not without directly altering your overall supportive capability. It might not get all the way to the level of 'in my style I never need this' choice, but I don't think with the current implementation that it is in the realm of 'good Bards should never need to spec this' either.
I generally felt good about it. The effects look very good, though they appear to be a bit outside of the "grounded/ more believable" style that was discussed regarding other designs. I felt the same but more strongly about the spellbook and its animations. I can use a book weapon as comically large as my body but I can't use a sword with the same-ish size because it wouldn't be "grounded"? There's a mismatch here.
I'm excited about it because it looks very fluid to play, but I'm not excited about how easy it looks to play. It seems like the skill floor is the actual ground, and there aren't many abilities that require much skill expression (especially in PvE). In PvP games with enchanters like this, their greatest weakness is ALWAYS that they are easy to catch out and pick off if they have bad positioning, but the bard's movement ability is so broken that dying before the rest of their team will likely never be an issue. For example, if a rogue were to have a similar ability it would be much more balanced, as a rogue is risking it all to put themselves in the most dangerous place possible: the middle of the enemy team. Using it as an escape would remove your ability to do your job as an assassin. The bard will just use it to flee to the safest place possible: the middle of their team! In a broken fashion, this is also where the majority of their skills are most valuable. No risk/reward. This trivializes their positioning, especially with multiple charges and a relatively short cooldown. It's so strong with this kit that even if the movement ability had only two uses per fight, it would still be good.
The entire team gets enormous benefits from the bard, and the majority of those benefits seem to come from about 6 APM. The class appears to be incredibly easy to get into and has a very gentle learning curve beyond that. The gambit seems to be the only risky ability which doesn't almost automatically get great value.
The best part about playing the bard will be that everyone will be happy to have you even if they already have another bard, and because it's hard to mess up playing it. I do think it looks fun, but is severely lacking in the risk/reward department and skill expression.
I like the direction of the bard but there were a few things nagging me at the back of my head. Bards are a bit of a trope of being the worst of all roles.
1.) The animations are well done but I felt that I found the animations to be a bit... Modernized and not grounded in Fantasy and they looked out of place for a fantasy setting and didn't match the music except for the first one showcased with the shield. The rest seemed like they belonged in a hip-hop video or moshpit.
2.) When I see a showcase for a class, I'm always critical of the role the class performs or their identity. The whole time I was watch this showcase, I was asking myself what could this class do aid the party accomplish a goal that another class couldn't. What problem does this class solve? Would the outcome have been different if there was another mage in the party, or another cleric. What did this class bring to the party that wouldn't have been outclassed by a specialized class? And to be honest, I didn't see much.
Comments
- **Group Contribution:**
- Will the bard's contributions be significant compared to other classes? If a group has 12 spots and one spot is still free, why should I choose a bard over another healer or DPS class? As a bard, I don't want to feel like the fifth wheel in a group.
Spell Variety
- **Redundant Spells:**
- Why should I fill my bar with multiple tunes and dances when we're likely to use the same three or four spells due to mana constraints? Even during the battle demo, you used the same few spells repeatedly.
- Consider replacing some spells with area-of-effect DPS dots or burst spells.
Humor
- **Entertainment Factor:**
- I miss the sarcasm/humor and entertainment factor of being a bard. It would be great to see more of that reflected in the animations and spells.
Mobility/Survivability
- **Agility Playstyle:**
- The bard would benefit from having a fast and high-mobility/agility playstyle.
Spell Suggestions
- **Duplication Spell:**
- Adding a spell to create duplicates to confuse enemies would be interesting.
- **Spell Stealing:**
- It would be cool if the bard could steal spells from opponents.
- Make them dance spell: instead of stunning them, make them dance. :-) Like the Piper scene from Shrek!
Other:
Highlight the Instruments: Ensure that there is adequate focus on the various musical instruments. It shouldn’t just be about the book; explore the different types of instruments, their unique appearances, and skin designs.
Balance the Sound Levels: The volume of the instruments was too low, especially in contrast to the loud roar of the tank. Adjust the sound levels to create a better balance, allowing the instruments to be heard clearly.
The Book
- **Design Feedback:**
- I like the floating book, but the blue accents are a bit too large for my taste. Consider looking at the Tomorrowland Book of Wisdom for inspiration.
- It would also be cool to have animations on the pages themselves. (See Tomorrowland Book video for reference.)
Video:
---
Great: This showcase was probably the most well-structured (overall) showcase. I like the description/role/bg of the archetype. I like the skill overviews. I love the gameplay demo (thank you Steven for allowing Bucky to pilot).
Could use work: While I understand lighting is a work in progress- I felt a lot of the showcase gameplay inside the structure environments were so dark I couldn't tell what was happening, It was hard to locate the targets (friendly or foe). I have attached an image to show what a simple UI addition (outline/highlight) could do to benefit the user and make it more user-friendly to identify hostile and friendly targets in darker areas, that are currently focused/selected. We have seen this in many modern games, and think this would help with better game experience.
Hostile:
Friendly:
Maybe expand this to all selectable characters?
Obviously, these are very crude proof-of-concept. Still, I believe the UI & engineering team could modify this simple UI enhancement to make the gameplay more readable, and thus accessible for everyone. You would have agency on what colors you'd like to use for different targets like: hostile, friendly, party, raid, boss, etc.
Thanks,
-G
I liked it, it looked like a good class.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
The buffs seemed pretty good.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
Yes. Less rainbows and pink fireballs. The damage also seemed a little low, it should be lower then other classes but still able to solo.
I also noticed that all abilities will scale with magical power, concerned about the viability of using martial weapons as a bard.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Yes, I’ve played support classes in other games. Nothing really to expand on here.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
Combos looked good, the sleep looked a little too long. I’d suggest different timers, one for against players and one for against mobs.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
I prefer martial weapons.
**Subject: Feedback on Bard Archetype Showcase**
Dear Ashes of Creation Development Team,
I recently had the opportunity to review the Bard archetype showcase and wanted to share my thoughts on what I feel is missing from the archetype. While the ability to choose a main instrument is a great feature for players who want to hear instrumental sounds during combat, I believe the archetype would benefit significantly from a focus on vocal hymns and melodies.
**Key Points of Feedback:**
1. **Vocal Hymns and Melodies:**
- For players who envision their bards as singers, it is important to hear their characters sing. Currently, abilities meant to represent sung songs use a harp sound, which lacks the emotional impact and passion that vocal performances can bring.
- I suggest implementing an option for vocal performances, allowing players to select a singing voice for their bard. This would add a layer of personalization and immersion, making the bard archetype feel more dynamic and expressive.
2. **Sound Toggle Feature:**
- To address concerns about music playing for all players, consider adding a toggle option that allows players to turn bard music on and off. This way, those who enjoy hearing their bard's music can do so, while others who prefer silence can opt out.
- Party members could have the option to hear their party's bard music if they have the toggle turned on. This feature would enhance gameplay.
3. **Voice and Music Customization:**
- Upon creating a bard, players could choose a voice selection and a singing voice selection. These choices could be tied to racial music themes and even allow for duets if there are multiple bards in a party.
- Imagine the richness this would bring to the game: a Dünir dwarf singing an epic ballad akin to "Misty Mountain Cold" from The Hobbit or a Niküa dwarf performing a rhythmic song similar to "You're Welcome" from Moana. Each race could have multiple vocal options and unique songs that players can learn from class teachers or discover while exploring ancient civilizations.
4. **Musical Inspirations and Examples:**
- Incorporating a variety of musical styles, such as dark opera (e.g., Diva's song from "Blood+"), "Diva's Song" from "The Fifth Element," and "Dark Waltz" by Hayley Westenra, would greatly enrich the bard's repertoire. The Ashes of Creation team could use this opportunity to create their own music, making the world more engaging and rich with lore. Unique, racially themed music would deepen the immersion and connection players feel towards their characters and the game's world.
In conclusion, adding vocal performances and more music customization options to the Bard archetype would greatly enhance the player experience. It would allow for deeper emotional connections to the characters and provide a richer, more immersive gameplay experience. Thank you for considering this feedback, and I look forward to seeing how the Bard archetype evolves.
Sincerely,
Kevin (Kalnazzar Wrin)
It was very exciting. I'm now condifent that Bard will be my first choice. Anyway I have some comments.
- The mana regeneration seemed a bit low, even out of combat. It felt irrelevant for me. I would like to be a bit higher. In comparation, the rest of melodies seems to have more impact.
- I like the idea of using "Tarot" cards, but I would love to see more skills related with them. In Ragnarok Online Bard Job had an ability where you could draw a card and randomly apply one effect to your enemy (or to yourself). It could be good or bad, but it was supper funny to have a random skill with a higher impact.
- I love that Bard is more focus on regenartion over time and not big heals.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?- To feel that my class is necessary and not only for buffing allies. I think you're doing great with that.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?- I missed some more damage/debuff abilities. I would like the class to be a bit more independent (of course being better in group compositions). I think auras/dances won't be effective in solo playing and I don't like the idea of always needing people in the group.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!https://discord.gg/MZwMe38qSG
DPS: I would love to see a mix of AoE dots and ST ranged attacks that are centered around 20% doing less damage then other DPS specs that also do debuffs. Slow attack speed and casting speed. Snares and roots. Crippling effects that lower melee damages and other skills that will debuff spells damage.
Main Healer spec: This would not do that same volume of damage as a Cleric but would have solid ST heals but their skills would be more about HOT songs that also add better damage buffers, also increasing things like Stats like Str, Sta, Dex and other things like that. Maybe even a song that helps with mitigation of damage. With a raid, such a bard would be needed along with a cleric.
The class looks great! love the dances and the mobility. I think instruments definitely need to be implemented more, but I love the story teller approach you took instead of the traditional musician.
Really well done! I enjoyed the detailed description of the Bard abilities followed by real gameplay. The Dev's playing together showed off the Bard well and showed how interesting and dynamic the gameplay of a team can be.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
Exploring the different build options, combining Melodies with the Dances, seeing what kind of synergies can be utilized. Can you use a quick weapon combo with the Bard weapon buff proc for strong offense? Can you spec towards stronger mana regen? Can you use mesmerizing dance with Dark Lullaby as a main combo to damage enemies while CC'd? Can you build the bard focused on healing enough to be a main healer? These are all things I'd like to experiment with.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm excited about the melody system and twisting songs. I'm hoping for deeper spec options that allow the Bard to keep more than 2 melodies active at once.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
The Everquest Bard was my favorite Bard iteration (also the first) I've played, and I'm hoping the Melody Twisting described by Bucky in the live stream will be expanded as an option in the Talent Tree.
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
My least favorite ability in the showcase was Anthem of Alacrity. I LOVED the visuals, but the effect seemed quite lackluster. A 2 second cast time ability to give only one ally a 10 second haste buff seems quite weak. Ways to improve it would to be make it instant cast for the Bard, make the buff last longer, or make it a group wide buff with a longer cooldown.
My favorite mechanic is the Melody twisting using the Music Mastery talents. I'm hoping the Counterpoint talent option gets expanded to allow for more customization for bards and more options for twisting songs. I detailed some suggestions for the Music Mastery talents in this post:
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59827/bard-feedback-music-mastery-song-twisting-functionality-suggestions#latest
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
I thought the animations were amazing! The sound effects interacting with the game soundtrack was especially impressive to me. My main critique with the visual effects is the intensity of the colors covering gameplay. There were times during the livestream (especially in dark buildings) where it seemed impossible to see what was happening through all the spell effects and bright colors. I know there are lighting changes in the works, I just hope the intensity of spell effects does not visually clutter the player experience.
On a personal note: the ability "Get off the Stage" where the Bard knocks back an enemy using their instrument, while quite funny, feels unrealistic for any real musician. What instrumentalist would ever bash somebody wearing plate mail in the head with a wooden flute? It would break, and then they'd have NO instrument! Maybe a description can be added, like "the Bard coats their instrument in magical power," which can explain away why your character is trying to break their instrument over an enemy's head?!? I'm a clarinet player and I'd be down $3000 if I did that!
Throughout the video, marks stayed on the same target, even when it was a dead mob. A marked dead mob does not seem necessary. It might be nice for a mark to disappear off a target if that target dies. It would reduce confusion of players for which mob to target, it might visually signal to the marking player to place a new mark, and it would reduce clutter on screen.
I get that they're going for a high fantasy setting where magic is common, but magic can take other forms besides a thousand variations on exploding neon plasma.
For example, why not replace the EDM hulahoops with a songbird that flutters around your character while mimicking your currently active melody? If you need it to be color coded, just make the eyes glow.
And for the dances, I'd much prefer if they just kicked up dust in interesting patterns rather than spawning in an entire pyrotechnic light show.
I know they said they want to have sliders to reduce the visual clutter from abilities, but that just seems like the wrong approach. They wouldn't even need sliders if they scaled back the use of glowing streaks in favor of dust, air distortion, blood, sparks, geometry smears, blur effects, and of course high quality animations -- which we'd actually be able to appreciate, because they're not constantly being occluded by a thousand overlapping supernovae.
Also environmental effects, like the Tank's stomp ability sending a shockwave through foliage, and creating cracks on the ground. That, combined with good animation and SFX, is really all you need to make something feel good. Save the flashbangs for truly impactful ultimate abilities, like Saga and Cataclysm.
Id rather put a cool type class such as shaman/druid/necromancer/conjuror.. you name it..
Imagine you are a deadly rogue with bloody daggers, fighting a dude who plays a flute ..its so strange..
Looks like that crazy singer from Asterix and Obelix
The spell when Dragon appears and blows the fire - IMO the character himself should just conjure the fire, there shoudnt be additional mob appearing to do the fire. Its like being a hunter and having your pet do some things. I would like to be the one that looks responsible for conjuring the spells :P
Other than that, for the game itself, the buffs/spells which have area of effects, i would not make them move with the character, but remain cast in a place where they were initially cast> the visuals which move around the character while it walks don't look good, it looks fake.
MAGE: : I wish there were more Snare/Root/Freeze/Stunn/Knock away/Wind away spells for area control, Mage should control the weather like that and be able to have more crowd control spells. The other classes as well. (i.e. Cone of cold, Frost nova, Entangling Roots, Stomp, Thunderstorm..
As for the Ball of Lighting, i view the spell as it has no purpose.. If you are fighting a player with average IQ, there is no way that the spell is going to hit him, let alone hit him for longer than .5 seconds. It serves no purpose other than it looks cool (also doesnt look like it belongs in the game)
(btw im not a hater, i LOVE the game and i cant wait to play it, im just putting my thoughts out there
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
The base set of abilities are a great starter for the next levels, but I'm hoping for more diversity in the "orientation".
By orientation, I mean to be able to play a bard in a dedicated team of physical ranged DPS for example, or a dedicated team of physical melee DPS. For now, the bard seems to have mainly magical attack.
If I may draw a parallel, as a former player of Lineage 2, I used to play BladeDancer in archers parties and I was assisting my team with, of course, dances but with my bow too and some debuffs.
Sure, the BladedDancer can't be really transposed like that in AoC, but I would love to get the same feeling I had by playing a support first but an off-physical ranged DPS too.
I don't expect to see any specialization like I described before at the beginning, but more when we choose our second archetype. For instance, Bard/Ranger could modify existing skills to fit more to a ranged physical team.
Of course, everything I said also applies to fighter oriented, rogue oriented, mage oriented or, why not, tank oriented, ect... In the case of the bard, I really see the second archetype has a "path" to become an off-X (X being the second choosen archetype)
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
As said earlier, BladeDancer in L2 and of course his "twin" class, the SwordSinger in some aspect. As the bard have some AoE CC, It remind me the OverLord too in L2, which was a buffer, a CCer and an off-healer.
I liked there playstyle back in the days, but now they feel really static, that's why I saw the bard as a modern evolution of this kind of classes.
On an other topic, I found the monsters who fought Steven and the dev team maybe a little bit too easy. Monsters were higher level but except when the team pulled too much, they didn't feel to be in danger.
@Tryol highlighted this concern some posts before and I agree with his feedback.
Finally, I think I need to really play the bard to give you a true feedback instead of relying only on the showcase.
As bard is without a doubt my favourite class or theme to play in almost all MMOs and roleplaying games like DnD, I really wanted to sink my teeth into this devupdate and try to provide as informative an opinion as I can. With that being said, I will potentially reference the wiki page, the livestream, or previous quotes or comments made by staff from other panels/livestreams. A lot is my own personal opinion, but I do hope that it helps to, at the very least, turn gears in developer brains to help them flesh out the image of what they perceive is Ashes of Creation’s Bard Archetype. If I can, I’ll also clip videos and give references if something comes from outside of the bard archetype showcase.
Above Question Responses:
• How do you feel about the Bard Archetype Preview? Overall, I really like the Bard Archetype’s preview. I feel that it is very much, for the most part, capturing the essence of what constitutes to a bard class in games. The goal of being a proactive supporter to the part and boosting the ability of others in their respective role is great. However, I feel it does have a bit too much straight up healing and supports clerics as an off-healer a bit too much. If power budget is a concern for future additions and suggestions, perhaps alleviate some this healing for support to the rest of the party.
• What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?For me, what excites me the most is being able to make my bard stand out as unique and different to other bards. Perhaps through the selection of skills and my archetype choice. I am also very excited to tomato the face of some my friends in duels.
• Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview? I will say that the archetype, outside of its dances, feels too long-range mage-like. My hope was for there to be another type of bardic theme, feats/displays/performances that involve the bard doing flashy actions with their weapon to debuff/inspire those around. This would essentially be the way they’d augment the DPS combatants respectively while your songs and heals augment the cleric. Perhaps a sword move that debuffs the enemy in various ways, and if used during flourish would become an AOE blade an flourish type of combo. https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxqs4EReCvL6yvG2077q1A1F6g_rLO6Yhc?si=VcmGLkOAQ_z9cZpw
• Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain! Bard is a classic for a lot of games, however the games that excel with the bard are the ones that encourage freedom and allow it to fulfil many different fantasies and roles. The bard is ultimately the “off-class” of every single role and depending on how its specs, can cover a party weakness. That being said, games such as FFXIV portray the bard simply as a ranged bow user with music magic, or Lost Ark and making it just a music mage which a lot of people have made comments on wanting to avoid. These are the troupes I’d like to see avoided and so pulling inspiration from DnD or DDO for the versatility of the class but modernising it would be the perfect approach.
• What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos? I think these are off to a great start and are in the right direction. I think categorising the bardic stuff into songs, melodies, dances, stories, etc is a good way to do things. I would suggest adding a few more and then perhaps making it not possible to acquire all categories. This way a players bard feels unique in how they entertain and inspire their comrades.
• Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them! I really like the direction of trying to make them fit into the ambience and setting rather than just overpowering the scene.
Comments others raised: I just want to share my opinions on a few things that others have brought up either here or during the stream.
• Bard can’t solo: This idk where people are getting the assumption from. It has life steal, heals, an attack speed buff (it was shown working on the user if targeting an enemy), butt loads of cc, and some respectful magic damage moves. Ultimately, we can’t say that bard can’t solo just looking at this preview, so I will actively test it during Alpha 2. However, a few more offensive moves would be appreciated.
• Bards giving “town buffs”: Please for the love of God, no. I respect those who enjoyed this, but it is a relic of the past in old MMORPGs that should stay as such. Ashes of Creation is very much tugging on the nostalgic souls of MMO gaming veterans, and I completely get why people may want this. But it will just lead to buffbot alts or unnecessary bloat to the skill tree of a bard. The resources should instead go to active stuff the bard is doing. You have also stated wanting to avoid buffbot gameplay. Example, Rose online cleric buff alts just sitting in towns for campfires OR following your main char around. These mechanics are either mandatory or worthless and create a slippery slope. Don’t do it, please.
• Bard feels to “mage”: This point I do agree with given the showcased skills. However, I am assuming that the intent is to add many more skills as the class is expanded upon and, with skill point restrictions, we will be able to diversify how we fight. I’ve said it before, but weapon showmanship/ feats/ performances/ maneuvers would be a great category of bard skills that can allow each bard to feel unique and avoid just being another magical backline caster support.
• Button Bloat: Considering that you have stated many times that you do not intend for every skill to be unlockable with the amount of SP and that you want players to have a large degree of diversity in how they build so every player feels unique, I feel that the amount is completely fine. Also, Bucky was only level 10, and the level cap is 50. Unless after 25 your SP goes towards your secondary archetype augmentations, we can assume there is many, many more skills to come. This is fine, nothing was out of the ordinary for an MMO and if anything looks like healthy to me.
Comments on Skills: If I don’t write about a skill, I likely have no comment or feel someone else addressed it in the comments prior.
• Melodies: I love the melodies and the latter option to alter how you use them encouraging potentially weaving of two. That being said, I think that the presented options definitely should use looking into further. Another one could be “Music Mastery: Vibrato” which extends your melody durations by X for Y seconds upon executing a full melee weapon combo. Let’s the bard have a tool for when they’re in the thick of things.
• Resonant Weapon: LOVE this but I feel a few could be changed. Cheerful should instead provide a shield not a heal to diversify things as bard right now has way too many straight up heals. It steps more on clerics territory rather than “enabling” the cleric to shine.
• Fierce Wit: Should be spirit damage not fire, to fit with the demoralising feel of being tomatoed to the face.
• Lovely Serenade: I think it should be a shield and a small heal received buff. Again, enabling the cleric to be able to time their heals to buff them to do their job rather than taking away from it entirely.
• Shielding Dance: This is the head scratcher for me that kind of brings together the point I keep making. Bard has too much direct healing. Why does shielding dance shield only at the end, and instead heal periodically? It would make more sense to apply a shield every second of its duration and a heal at the end. Bard should be trying to create openings for the allies to shine in their role. Providing healing received buffs and temporary shields to give the cleric time to shine will promote healthier moments than simply the bard being able to heal so much the cleric can sit back. We should want the people in the party to feel they are getting to do more with their stuff because of the bard, not the bard doing more so they can do less.
• Sagas: I agree with above comments that this feels kinda weak for all the necessary build up. You also have to account for the fact you have to preplan and specifically aim towards one. I think either make the theme generators faster to account for the power, or really go over the top with these and make their scale much bigger.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, I really appreciate the effort and thought put into making an identity for the Ashes of Creation Bard that is unique and fun. I really see the love, care, and passion that the developers have for the game in how the ideas come together. I have highlighted my concerns and praises above; however, if I had to pick priorities I would say:
• Bard needs physical offensive moves to fill the “dashing scoundrel” “son of a B*” theme we love and associate with bards. Sword maneuvers, etc. to prevent bard being just a music casting song mage.
• Change some of the healing skills to be more shields and healing received buffs to let clerics and player self-heals shine more rather than simply stealing their spotlight or making their job easier by taking away need. There is a different between enhancing a roles ability to perform their tasks, and just doing their task for them a bit.
• A bit more rigidity to the categories of bard skills, melodies, songs, dances, etc so that not every bard can simply do all the above but rather specialize into 2 or 3. This will be make everyone feel unique and able to entertain and tell their story in their own way. Of course this is assuming you're adding extensively more skills.
Questions for August 16th. in order of which I would appreciate answered if can only pick 1.
• How will archetype skills change depending on the weapon equipped? Since weapons don’t give active skills, do you not feel that an archetype will encounter problems if they try differing from a specific norm. For example, the ranger obviously requires a bow, but can they find ways to use skills while also wielding a lance? A fighter using lighter fast weapons instead of the meaty greatsword shown in the showcase to use their skills. Will the skills change to accommodate this, or will you have to add X skills to cover every weapon type to each archetype that logically uses a weapon to do specific skills? (fighter, ranger, rogue, tank, and bard respectively).
• At what level from 1~50 will players stop unlocking new active skills to try learning, 25, 50,etc? Will the SP used to learn skills also be then used to learn augmentations for those skills from your secondary archetype?
Thank you for all the hard work and I am sorry for the sheer bulk of a post this is, but I wanted to put some passion into my thoughts and feedback in response to the passion and hard work you all put into making this dream of a game.
I'm going to explain why, and obviously, this is only based on my opinion, but I've seen this critique mentioned quite often.
1. Big, colorful, and contrasting VFX that literally block your vision with your own spell casting.
- One screenshot shows the bard casting a spell with a cheap little circle around the character and a big red card over his head with such contrasting colors. It completely takes me out of the immersion and even blocks vision right in front of you. Why do these spells have to be a color fiesta?
2. Here are some examples of the color fiesta and fireworks that make this fight look completely cheap in my opinion and don't add any positive aspect to the gameplay.
3. Effects in general are way too overloaded with color and don't even have any global light reflection/impact on the game, which makes it even worse in my opinion.
If I cast a colorful spell, but it only lights up my monitor without lighting up the immediate surroundings, it just looks cheap and like the game is from the year 2000, even though it's beautiful.
So, I wouldn't focus so much on colors and more on the animations and environmental impact to show the power level of a spell. The fighter class, in my opinion, does a good job showing strong force spells with massive environmental impact while keeping the color at a decent level (not all, but most of them).
4. I know that making environmentally impactful spells will also have an impact on performance, but I would rather decrease colors and color variation and instead make decent, well-animated spells that feel immersive.
I know this is all a work in progress, and except for these things, I am perfectly fine with what has been shown so far. But this actually makes me kind of sad because I don't want to be pulled out of immersion, especially in dark places where all these bright and colorful spells won't change ANYTHING about the environmental lighting.
The AoC bard looks great, I'd say overall a 7/10. I am concerned about the Dances. They feel modern and out of place in a high fantasy setting, especially hurt by the super modern icons that look like they belong in a Dance Dance machine. I'd much have preferred the Dances to be akin to "blade" dances instead, being entirely combat focused either offensively or evasively, but combat nonetheless. I am also a little bit curious as to the lore explanation of an ability as powerful as 'gambit' - this sort of life/essence magic definitely feels more in the wheelhouse of Clerics, even though I'd love to have that in my toolkit lol.
RP Composition: I very much enjoyed the concept in ArcheAge of being able to compose your own music- it meant you could actually RP as a Bard, and I do feel like RP is in general a very neglected aspect of MMOs. Especially with names like "flUffyKittenz" running around, the immersion quickly dissipates. Sorry, tangent.
Anyway, being able to manually 'get good' at both composing and playing music in game is a super fun pseudo tradeskill for any bard. By this I mean the literal production of sounds from an instrument using a Midi sort of system.
In terms of gameplay composition: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was troubled by poor finances, and it's a pain on the MMO genre that Brad McQuaid (Designer of Everquest and Vanguard) will never be able to improve on that legacy due to his unfortunate death in 2018. But as usual, he sprinkled in MMO brilliance with the Bard. First in Everquest (1999) they pioneered songweaving, and in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes they built on that legacy very well with a system where you could place 3 itemized components to 'write' a song. So for instance you had an intro, a chorus, and a solo or an outro, and each of them had multiple different options.
Depending on how you slotted these items, your song would have differing effects. So you could compose a song, give it a name (the name would also appear on your party's status effects which was a nice personal touch), and socket it with the different song components. If you wanted a speed song, you may want to slot all sockets with Movement Speed, but you could also write a song that gave Movement Speed and Armor if you wanted to put a more defensive spin on it, or Movement and Attack Speed if you thought your party would charge into a fight. This system was really fantastic, and it's criminal we didn't get to see it fully fleshed out in a completed MMO. Here's a link to a guide on it: https://vanguard.fandom.com/wiki/Song_Composition_Guide
Then finally, in terms of Sound design- the actual sound design is amazing. I was a bit confused by how many times I heard lutes/harps for a character that had a flute equipped, but I assume all bard abilities that have music/sounds associated with it will eventually match the chosen instrument, so I assume this is just WIP? Overall, sounds great!
In conclusion, your guys' abilities look super smooth, the animations are good and the designs look fun more than anything and that's the most important thing. Sound is fantastic as well.
I would however like Bards to be kept traditional- I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but for most of us MMO grognards, nostalgia is important in keeping the dream of Ashes of Creation (and MMOs in general) alive, and if we fly too close to the sun, I do fear that we lose that magical heritage that got us all hooked on MMOs in the first place. I am all for progressing the genre, absolutely, but I do feel the dances take away from the fantasy setting, and does more harm than good.
If I were going to add a critique, I think it would be with the Flourish animation. A flourish is usually an extravagant gesture. While I love the idea of the skill, I think the animation should be a bit more showboat'y. Adding a quick forward flip or tumble leading in to the slide would add significant flair to the skill. Looking at the animations on the dances, the Flourish animation just seems lackluster for a skill that, by definition, should be anything but. Otherwise, it's perfect. ...Maybe a Talent option to break Root CC's, but nothing I'd lose sleep over like the animation.
Gambit is a great ability and reminds me of the old WoW Paladin Divine Intervention skill, where through extreme sacrifice you can save an absolute clusterf of a situation.
Another thing, not sure of the Bard/Tank class being called Siren concept. Withholding judgment until I hear the rationalization of the concept. For me, a Bard/Tank sounds like it would be more of a Bannerman or Flagbearer - someone to rally the troops.
Anyway, looking forward to more updates, especially the roadmap in August. And of course, Alpha 2. Oh, and the Character Creation tools. Oh, and... well, there's a lot to look forward to!
Edit: Oh, and Saga is AMAZING. Can't wait to see the final animation, the mocked up version was incredible!
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You've never fantasized about using your instrument as a weapon? I hope they add a visual weapon breaking effect to "Get off the Stage" and then you just pull out another one, kind of like a certain taunt from TF2
I think a certain level of humor in the bards abilities is good.
The way the quest works in the preview is you there are a few pages of big walls of txt and I think this has a few issues.
1) it takes way to long to read it all and it makes you feel pressured to skip it for the group. this even happens in the stream he starts to read it then clicks though to get moving I like lore but most of my friends don't and this will happen to me often. IMO anything more then 10-15 sec to read will make me feel like I have rush.
2)I have a bad memory and quest txt is a one time thing so if I forget what was said I'm out of luck.
How I would address this is the NPC would have a few txt options 1 is the quest very simple and short "we are overrun by x kill y collect z" then another options are for what's happening right now that you can come back to and read later if needed with much more detail and a 3rd option for the history and lore of the place. I hate that this is the case but in group content you simply don't have time to sit and read about the lore of the area.
For PVE it is as advertised, a mana battery and an AMAZING heal potential when it comes to melee healing/mana builds, but this will be tested when the time comes. Just alliws us to deal magic dsmsge with some melee weapons. The tank buff spells slso make for a great dedicated "Warsinger" build that buffs the tanks in s raid by acting as extrs mitigation cooldownd. The "dps" spells were fine.
I got to say, I play with music off when it comes to MMOs so I can listen to sound cues, but one thing I have to mention, some of the Bard spells had a very sharp compression ratio which might be a youtube encoding issue but had to mention it, way too boomy.
Lastly, Steven, my man, add an Arcanoelectric Guitar. Verra needs to learn about Rock n' Roll. Make it look like a Les Paul for bonus style points.
I see a lot of people not being a huge fan of the book - I just wanna voice that I loved it. Perhaps it could be scaled down just slightly, but I did not find it "out of place" or "cartoony" in a bad way!
I have not had my eyes on the bard class at all until now. The reason why I have not had my eyes on a bard class is that I thought it might be another class with a stupid ukulele that is mediocre in everything he does.
I have been interested to play healer (cleric) and some kind of melee dps. Now im thinking bard might be the better option for my healing cravings. The bard seems so fun to play and so unique. So I really hope Soulweaver [bard + cleric] is going to make a viable healer aswell, just different.
So to answer what excites me about playing bard is kind of the same reason why I would play healer. To keep my party alive with healing and supporting them in making the killing process as easy as possible while I hang closely behind them.
Top things about the Bard.
1. Unique class that has a clear vision what it is. Everything from armor, spells, spellname, visual effects and so on is so on point and makes sense.
2. So many satisfying abilities and sounds. Top ones i think was discordance and lovely serenade how they timed perfectly visually with the audio.
3. Floating book. Really unique and interesting. Was surprised how much I liked that book.
Not much else to say than congratulate the devs on catching the essence of what a bard class could be, bravo!
First some feedback regarding the theme/saga mechanic.
Assuming that you will be capped at 3 themes (which could be wrong of course, but i think this feedback would be good regardless), I feel like there should be a way to discard individual themes for a penalty or consume individual themes in some way.
I think this is important because that way, youre not locked into having to use a certain saga you may not want to use anymore to reset your themes. I can think of many scenarios where youre building up to use a certain saga, but conditions change and youd much rather use a different saga instead. If you could discard or use the themes individually, I think it opens up a lot more decision making and gameplay depth for the bard.
Another thing i think would be better is if the mana regeneration melody would instead decrease mana cost. Even though the overall effect might be similar/the same, I think that it would be more fitting for the bard as it would be a buff rather than some generic resource regeneration thing that you can get from many other sources.
I also wanna say that the animations and spell effects of this archtype were the best ive seen so far! The only thing id personally change is to remove the spotlights from the dance vfx, i think that they dont really add anything but clutter. Regarding the other spell effects though, i still think that especially the cleric vfx are just way way too bright. I dont really understand why every spell has to be some type of bright neon color, it just looks really weird IMO.
The spellbook weapon was also great in my opinion, love the aesthetic of it floating in front of you!
Excited and intrigued, it made me curious about playing this. I like the concept of support, I'm curious as how to effective a bard could be to off-heal, or heal in a duo/trio scenario, or against various elites.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Bard Archetype?
How the Bard can integrate and combo with various other Archetypes, such as the status effects. As I likely won't play Cleric, I'm interested in how it'll hold up as a pseudo healer in certain situations (questing for example). The 'twisting' element of having multiple songs up is great. I like the positional requirements of some abilities, such as proximity or the 'cone' of the saga ability.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Bard Archetype Preview?
I'm excited about the potential synergies with other Archetypes. I'm concerned or curious to see how a Bard feels in solo play.
Are there similar Archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
What are your thoughts on the Bard abilities, mechanics, and combos?
Only Augmentation Evoker in retail WoW. It's balancing in PVE has been an issue since inception. I like the combos, that seems like a great idea between selecting an appropriate ability in the moment, whilst working toward the a Saga, or vice versa, going for a Saga and choosing the required abilities. I think that coice seems fun.
Do you have opinions on the instrument animations, Bard VFX, and Bard SFX? If so, please share them!
The instrument animations were good, albeit quite subtle (not a criticism). They were overshadowed by the spell book, and the size/position of the spell book. I had to rewatch the video and actually pay attention to the flute animations to review them. I'm indifferent about the animations, I think they are fine.
The VFX of the bard are good, I'm not crazy on the florescent colors of some abilities, I'd consider toning these down to more 'pastels'. I recognize there is a balance of these needing to be readily identifiable visually, however I don't want them disrupting the visual theme (fidelity?) of Verra.
Seconding this, a 'Plot Twist' type mechanic would be one of the few things I can think where you actually have a real choice if to spec into it or not without directly altering your overall supportive capability. It might not get all the way to the level of 'in my style I never need this' choice, but I don't think with the current implementation that it is in the realm of 'good Bards should never need to spec this' either.
I'm excited about it because it looks very fluid to play, but I'm not excited about how easy it looks to play. It seems like the skill floor is the actual ground, and there aren't many abilities that require much skill expression (especially in PvE). In PvP games with enchanters like this, their greatest weakness is ALWAYS that they are easy to catch out and pick off if they have bad positioning, but the bard's movement ability is so broken that dying before the rest of their team will likely never be an issue. For example, if a rogue were to have a similar ability it would be much more balanced, as a rogue is risking it all to put themselves in the most dangerous place possible: the middle of the enemy team. Using it as an escape would remove your ability to do your job as an assassin. The bard will just use it to flee to the safest place possible: the middle of their team! In a broken fashion, this is also where the majority of their skills are most valuable. No risk/reward. This trivializes their positioning, especially with multiple charges and a relatively short cooldown. It's so strong with this kit that even if the movement ability had only two uses per fight, it would still be good.
The entire team gets enormous benefits from the bard, and the majority of those benefits seem to come from about 6 APM. The class appears to be incredibly easy to get into and has a very gentle learning curve beyond that. The gambit seems to be the only risky ability which doesn't almost automatically get great value.
The best part about playing the bard will be that everyone will be happy to have you even if they already have another bard, and because it's hard to mess up playing it. I do think it looks fun, but is severely lacking in the risk/reward department and skill expression.
I like the direction of the bard but there were a few things nagging me at the back of my head. Bards are a bit of a trope of being the worst of all roles.
1.) The animations are well done but I felt that I found the animations to be a bit... Modernized and not grounded in Fantasy and they looked out of place for a fantasy setting and didn't match the music except for the first one showcased with the shield. The rest seemed like they belonged in a hip-hop video or moshpit.
2.) When I see a showcase for a class, I'm always critical of the role the class performs or their identity. The whole time I was watch this showcase, I was asking myself what could this class do aid the party accomplish a goal that another class couldn't. What problem does this class solve? Would the outcome have been different if there was another mage in the party, or another cleric. What did this class bring to the party that wouldn't have been outclassed by a specialized class? And to be honest, I didn't see much.