"Random PvP interactions in the world rarely happen in retail WoW, they've added measures which make this less likely recently but up until then everyone would be flying rather than running around in the open world and completely avoid eachother. It's a fact and it shows, I shouldn't have to explain that if you play both or have followed the game for many expansions."
This literally has nothing to do with flying mounts, people were still raiding cities and doing world pvp even after TBC (hello, uh Wintergrasp, Tol Barad????). The reason PvP action in the game has become severely lessened, is ever since Legion the game has become more casual and PvE/leveling/raiding/and question in general are being pushed forcefully, while PvP has been completely gutted and is a shadow of itself former self, if anything like it at all and thereby PvP as a WHOLE is affected.
Alot of WoWs playerbase nowadays are PvEers/questers/raiders, because alot of the hardcore PvPers/ PvE/PvPer population ( like myself) stopped playing seriously after legion completely ruined PvP (go read the forums to see what im talking about). Another thing is heirlooms also ruined PvP, because your normal player who is leveling his first main isnt completely outfitted with heirlooms like everyones alt is nowaydays, is going to join a bg with his dungeon green and blues that he grinded for hours to get, only to get rekt by some dudes alt whose main just bought all the heirlooms for. Its completely demoralizing and just a waste of time. There is a reason why twinks dont exist anymore. Actually, i dont think YOU have played WoW in any serious capacity, if you are actually telling me that out of all the bad things that have hampered PvP over the years, flying mounts are to blame... -_-
"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"
Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.
"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."
How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.
Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air.
Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.
People can flee with ease, fly over most players and avoid literally any interaction you can think of with the opposite faction unless you use the new net-o-matic.
"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"
Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.
I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally.
"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."
How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.
You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods.
What are the benefits of flying apart from convenience in the face of laziness?
Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.
I didn't say they weren't.
I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.
If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.
FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
Yeah because players are selfish and don’t care if that feature messes up a good chunk of the game’s spirit so long as they save a few minutes of travel time.
Also, WoW Classic is far from niche. If anything it has established that players ENJOY and will pay for a more traditional MMO experience.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic.
This is where you're wrong, well, one of several places you are wrong.
I hate anything WoW.
The game is an atrocity. A blight on the MMO genre. The McDonalds of online gaming - though is probably responsible for more overweight people.
But you are actually the first person I have ever heard say that they think flight in WoW was a good feature. I've heard dozens of people say it was the first step over the slipery slope for WoW.
In fact, I've argued against these people, a number of times, even on this games forums - that flight in games can be good, it is just that the way WoW did it was lazy (as is the case for most things in that game). I'm personally all for flying mounts in games - if they are done right.
That isn't the point here. The point here is that Intrepid want the ability to fly to be a reward that only 10 - 20 players on a server at any point in time are able to do.
It isn't about the type of mount, it isn't about the strength of the mount, it is about the ability to fly being one of the key rewards for the leader of a guild that owns a castle, or the mayor of a metropolis level node, or the player that loots the legendary egg. They have even given some of their reasons (one of which being the economy).
World of Warcraft is a prime example of the very reason AoC even exists. WoW has become the antithesis of the MMO genre and what a traditional MMO was.
Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.
I didn't say they weren't.
I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.
If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.
FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
Not entirely aware, trust me.
AoC is an MMO for MMO fans. A traditional MMO that takes the game back to the basics BEFORE World of Warcraft bastardized it. I am not saying WoW is a bad game, but it is a bad MMORPG.
The AoC community is not the "classic WoW" community, we are mostly, in fact .. far older than that. Classic WoW to most of us was already an abomination as far as MMOs go. To a traditional MMO player, classic WoW is a lot like what retail WoW is to a classic WoW player, if that makes sense.. Only in our case, the difference is much more severe and emotional, because we've been starved for content for many years now, in some cases waiting 15+ years for a 'real' MMO to show up again.
This game could be described as the opposite of WoW, in many ways. A lot of us here loathe WoW and consider it absolutely repulsive and a very powerful example of what not to do.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
How do you possibly think that the majority of retail players agree with you. It's actually bewildering to me, I for one don't agree with you at all and many other people I've spoken to who have played for a long time agree with me and those who don't are the more casual player base who don't partake in PvP or difficult PvE but I am more than willing to acknowledge there are some players who love flying who do both but they are DEFINITELY not the majority here.
noaani hates the wow at all even classic. Personally me, I like the retail more than the classic and I hate the flying mounts. So now you encountered one.
Actually I hate flying mounts as it was implemented. If it would be just glide, it would be OK. If there would be something like 'stamina' what allow you temporal short term flying would be also OK. But the 310% extra speed (+buffs) with unlimited time definitely bad decision. (I use it, because it also have some positive effect but in total it is a bad thing.)
You may just be too young to understand. If you haven't experienced MMOs during their good years, a lot of this stuff might sound strange to you, because your concept of an MMO is World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft, and I'm being quite genuine and honest with you here, is a very bad example of the MMO genre.
It became popular and shaped the 'new' genre, yes. Almost every game is modeled after it now (and we hate that) but it is so very radically different from a traditional MMO.
If you read up on game design and development history, the gaming industry and MMOs, you may begin to understand what is going on here and why this project is so important to fans of the MMORPG genre.
It is quite literally, for a lot of us, our last hope... and a type of hope I've never seen before. Never has one of us (Steven) been the one in control. Entirely, all up to him, and so far (seemingly at least) he is a traditionalist, one of us, and sees exactly what we see when we look back on all the horrible things that have gone wrong with the genre since WoW was released.
People here are very excited and very hopefuly, and you're sure to ruffle quite a lot of feathers by coming in here and suggesting something so radical as flying mounts for everyone. The only thing I can imagine being worse is if someone started suggesting dungeon-finder, lol.
"Random PvP interactions in the world rarely happen in retail WoW, they've added measures which make this less likely recently but up until then everyone would be flying rather than running around in the open world and completely avoid eachother. It's a fact and it shows, I shouldn't have to explain that if you play both or have followed the game for many expansions."
This literally has nothing to do with flying mounts, people were still raiding cities and doing world pvp even after TBC (hello, uh Wintergrasp, Tol Barad????). The reason PvP action in the game has become severely lessened, is ever since Legion the game has become more casual and PvE/leveling/raiding/and question in general are being pushed forcefully, while PvP has been completely gutted and is a shadow of itself former self, if anything like it at all and thereby PvP as a WHOLE is affected.
Alot of WoWs playerbase nowadays are PvEers/questers/raiders, because alot of the hardcore PvPers/ PvE/PvPer population ( like myself) stopped playing seriously after legion completely ruined PvP (go read the forums to see what im talking about). Another thing is heirlooms also ruined PvP, because your normal player who is leveling his first main isnt completely outfitted with heirlooms like everyones alt is nowaydays, is going to join a bg with his dungeon green and blues that he grinded for hours to get, only to get rekt by some dudes alt whose main just bought all the heirlooms for. Its completely demoralizing and just a waste of time. There is a reason why twinks dont exist anymore. Actually, i dont think YOU have played WoW in any serious capacity, if you are actually telling me that out of all the bad things that have hampered PvP over the years, flying mounts are to blame... -_-
"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"
Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.
"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."
How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.
Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air.
Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.
People can flee with ease, fly over most players and avoid literally any interaction you can think of with the opposite faction unless you use the new net-o-matic.
"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"
Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.
I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally.
"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."
How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.
You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods.
What are the benefits of flying apart from convenience in the face of laziness?
"Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air."
Fine i wont use those two, ill just go further back, TBC lets say? All the regions in outland had world pvp zones and facilitated world pvp that was NOT instanced. Pre-cap doesn't matter anymore because leveling has become too easy and players get more experience from the same mobs they would've gotten back then, also this is exaggerated by heirlooms which provide players with an exp boost, and now its even made worse because mobs are scaled towards players level in the current expansion. WHAT THE HELL DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH FLYING MOUNTS????!!!!!!
"Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore."
Refer to my comment above, flying has nothing to do with open world pvp -_-...
Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.
Nowadays i dont experience ANY world pvp before and after i get my flying mount lmao. No one open world PvP anymore, because this current playerbase doesn't even have the PvP mindset to begin with. Most of them are PvErs,questers,and raiders. Literally the pvp community is a MINORITY in the current playerbase of retail WoW.
"I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally."
What path of least resistance would there be, what are the high risk, and high populated zones? Do you know if there are any? What does a high populated zones even mean? How do you know any of this already (being that you havent played the game at full launch and release when the game will have its majority player base, no one has btw) Being in a zone that is populated by enemy players is already risky enough to begin with, whether it has a normal or high populace. And flying horizontally is not as risk free as compared to flying upwards vertically, all it takes is to be able to trail after a target at the same speed and keep them in your range. Whereas flying vertically indefinitely would eventually render ones target completely out of range, even if said target was flying directly over them. This is where the invisible wall ceiling comes into play.
"You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods."
Because with the caravan system, its riskier sure, but you turn a better profit since caravans hold 100x more carrying space that personal inventory space. Someone actually transporting their goods through their own personal inventory might be technically "safer" (again one still has to look out for hostile players willing to attack them while they are flying) but it is financially HIGHLY inefficient and inferior in terms of profit compared to the caravan system. No SERIOUS trader would ever do it, it would be a complete loss of profit and time on their part.
"Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time." – Jeffrey Bard
"At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities." – Steven Sharif
These are some quotes that may help you understand the direction of this game and the creators vision.
The good news is, if you ever unlock a flying mount you will keep the skin and be able to use it as a non-flying mount (probably), at least, that's what I recall them saying in a video one time. Maybe.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
"Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time." – Jeffrey Bard
"At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities." – Steven Sharif
These are some quotes that may help you understand the direction of this game and the creators vision.
The good news is, if you ever unlock a flying mount you will keep the skin and be able to use it as a non-flying mount (probably), at least, that's what I recall them saying in a video one time. Maybe.
Thank You, for actually providing me with quotes.
Wait, you didn't even look at the mount section in the wiki? because both of those quotes are there.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
Actually, I kind of believe that...
I was being sarcastic but im sure that it something that just "flew" over your head. Pun intended.
It's true. Flying mounts are one of WoW's biggest mistakes.
The developers themselves have acknowledged this mistake and try constantly and desperately to correct it by limiting flying with path-finder and totally locking it in certain high-level areas.
It's not really something that can be undone once it's done. There are endless articles on MMO websites about why and how exactly it is detrimental to the health and design of WoW.
But the entire discussion is pretty pointless, because we already know the stance of the developers and their reasons. They promised us the opposite of your suggestion and that makes it a pretty contentious sort of suggestion to make on the forum of the game that has promised not to do the thing you want them to do. Sorry!
It's true. Flying mounts are one of WoW's biggest mistakes.
The developers themselves have acknowledged this mistake and try constantly and desperately to correct it by limiting flying with path-finder and totally locking it in certain high-level areas.
It's not really something that can be undone once it's done. There are endless articles on MMO websites about why and how exactly it is detrimental to the health and design of WoW.
But the entire discussion is pretty pointless, because we already know the stance of the developers and their reasons. They promised us the opposite of your suggestion and that makes it a pretty contentious sort of suggestion to make on the forum of the game that has promised not to do the thing you want them to do. Sorry!
One can still try, the game is still in alpha, and im sure there will be additions/removals for things were that promised and not promised in the final release, there always is, in every kickstarted/crowfunded game like this.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
Actually, I kind of believe that...
I was being sarcastic but im sure that it something that just "flew" over your head. Pun intended.
See, now this makes no sense.
There are two options.
Either you were being obviously sarcastic and saying that you don't think that WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant", which is my take from your post. If this is true, you are saying that you do not think WoW players are "uninformed and ignorant". However, in the context of the post, you are trying to imply that all WoW retail players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Or, you were being subvertly sarcastic over top of your obvious sarcasm (I'm not sure if sarcasm works in the same manner as a double-negative). If this is the case, you DO think that WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant".
So really, either I was right and nothing went over my head, and you do not think WoW classic players are "uninformed and ignorant", or I was wrong, you just invented double-negative sarcasm, and you think all WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant".
The funny thing is, regardless of which way the above goes, you are still attempting to imply that all WoW retail players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
Actually, I kind of believe that...
I was being sarcastic but im sure that it something that just "flew" over your head. Pun intended.
See, now this makes no sense.
There are two options.
Either you were being obviously sarcastic and saying that you don't think that WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant", which is my take from your post. If this is true, you are saying that you do not think WoW players are "uninformed and ignorant". However, in the context of the post, you are trying to imply that all WoW retail players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Or, you were being subvertly sarcastic over top of your obvious sarcasm (I'm not sure if sarcasm works in the same manner as a double-negative). If this is the case, you DO think that WoW classic players are "uninformed and ignorant".
So really, either I was right and nothing went over my head, and you do not think WoW classic players are "uninformed and ignorant", or I was wrong, you just invented double-negative sarcasm, and you think all WoW classic players are "uninformed and ignorant".
The funny thing is, regardless of which way the above goes, you are still attempting to imply that all WoW classic players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Wow classic players dislike anything after classic in general, flying mounts are only one of those features. What was their motto again...? Oh thats right "NO CHANGES".
That being said, you were the one that believed that every retail player was a "sheeple", your words not mine.
That being said, you were the one that believed that every retail player was a "sheeple", your words not mine.
And they are. I fully stand by the statement.
It's worth noting though, you are the one that is trying to say they all have the same opinon on flying mounts. Not sure about you, but I would consider any group of several million people that all have the same opinion on something like that to all be sheeple.
I mean, they somehow all believe that WoW is good, of course they aren't thinking for themselves.
WHAT THE HELL DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH FLYING MOUNTS????!!!!!!
Are you asking yourself that before you write down your points? I think you should be.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The devs have said no and that's it. quite simply really
Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time.– Jeffrey Bard
At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities. – Steven Sharif
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
The devs have said no and that's it. quite simply really
Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time.– Jeffrey Bard
At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities. – Steven Sharif
I like the limitation of the flying mount system. I appreciate we can get Legendary Mounts which could fly. It would be nice to be a Mayor or King, but, in normal circumstances I'd love to be a Bounty Hunter just hunting bounties on a Legendary Flying Mount. I understand they won't be permanent and I'm fine with that.
The rush I'd get if I got a legendary flying mount would be so awesome I can't really describe it.
Nah, there should be some kind of ultra rare chase item at the endgame that has limited supply. I also assume that flying mounts break a lot of the ways their pvp system is designed to encourage people to interact so keeping them low is likely a necessity.
That being said, you were the one that believed that every retail player was a "sheeple", your words not mine.
And they are. I fully stand by the statement.
It's worth noting though, you are the one that is trying to say they all have the same opinon on flying mounts. Not sure about you, but I would consider any group of several million people that all have the same opinion on something like that to all be sheeple.
I mean, they somehow all believe that WoW is good, of course they aren't thinking for themselves.
"It's worth noting though, you are the one that is trying to say they all have the same opinon on flying mounts. Not sure about you, but I would consider any group of several million people that all have the same opinion on something like that to all be sheeple."
Yes, by not wanting anything after classic, classic WoW players are by proxy, not in favor of flying mounts which came out after vanilla. By your own logic, classic WoW players are "sheeple" as well?
"I mean, they somehow all believe that WoW is good, of course they aren't thinking for themselves."
Im sure not everyone that plays WoW necessarily likes it, some people just play it cause their really isnt a better MMOrpg out there for them, that can match up to WoW. Tons of WoW players are waiting for an MMOrpg that can beat WoW, including this one.
I like the limitation of the flying mount system. I appreciate we can get Legendary Mounts which could fly. It would be nice to be a Mayor or King, but, in normal circumstances I'd love to be a Bounty Hunter just hunting bounties on a Legendary Flying Mount. I understand they won't be permanent and I'm fine with that.
The rush I'd get if I got a legendary flying mount would be so awesome I can't really describe it.
Except for us nobodies with no outside fanbase, we will never be voted into positions of power to be able to get said mounts and only big streamers with hundreds of thousands of subscribers will, who will use their influence to constantly remain in power and never "dirty peasants" have a go at it.
Comments
Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air.
Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.
People can flee with ease, fly over most players and avoid literally any interaction you can think of with the opposite faction unless you use the new net-o-matic.
I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally.
You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods.
What are the benefits of flying apart from convenience in the face of laziness?
Yeah because players are selfish and don’t care if that feature messes up a good chunk of the game’s spirit so long as they save a few minutes of travel time.
Also, WoW Classic is far from niche. If anything it has established that players ENJOY and will pay for a more traditional MMO experience.
I hate anything WoW.
The game is an atrocity. A blight on the MMO genre. The McDonalds of online gaming - though is probably responsible for more overweight people.
But you are actually the first person I have ever heard say that they think flight in WoW was a good feature. I've heard dozens of people say it was the first step over the slipery slope for WoW.
In fact, I've argued against these people, a number of times, even on this games forums - that flight in games can be good, it is just that the way WoW did it was lazy (as is the case for most things in that game). I'm personally all for flying mounts in games - if they are done right.
That isn't the point here. The point here is that Intrepid want the ability to fly to be a reward that only 10 - 20 players on a server at any point in time are able to do.
It isn't about the type of mount, it isn't about the strength of the mount, it is about the ability to fly being one of the key rewards for the leader of a guild that owns a castle, or the mayor of a metropolis level node, or the player that loots the legendary egg. They have even given some of their reasons (one of which being the economy).
Not entirely aware, trust me.
AoC is an MMO for MMO fans. A traditional MMO that takes the game back to the basics BEFORE World of Warcraft bastardized it. I am not saying WoW is a bad game, but it is a bad MMORPG.
The AoC community is not the "classic WoW" community, we are mostly, in fact .. far older than that. Classic WoW to most of us was already an abomination as far as MMOs go. To a traditional MMO player, classic WoW is a lot like what retail WoW is to a classic WoW player, if that makes sense.. Only in our case, the difference is much more severe and emotional, because we've been starved for content for many years now, in some cases waiting 15+ years for a 'real' MMO to show up again.
This game could be described as the opposite of WoW, in many ways. A lot of us here loathe WoW and consider it absolutely repulsive and a very powerful example of what not to do.
This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.
Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.
Are you saying that every retail WoW player is such a sheeple that they all have the exact same opinion as each other?
Actually, I kind of believe that...
How do you possibly think that the majority of retail players agree with you. It's actually bewildering to me, I for one don't agree with you at all and many other people I've spoken to who have played for a long time agree with me and those who don't are the more casual player base who don't partake in PvP or difficult PvE but I am more than willing to acknowledge there are some players who love flying who do both but they are DEFINITELY not the majority here.
noaani hates the wow at all even classic. Personally me, I like the retail more than the classic and I hate the flying mounts. So now you encountered one.
Actually I hate flying mounts as it was implemented. If it would be just glide, it would be OK. If there would be something like 'stamina' what allow you temporal short term flying would be also OK. But the 310% extra speed (+buffs) with unlimited time definitely bad decision. (I use it, because it also have some positive effect but in total it is a bad thing.)
It became popular and shaped the 'new' genre, yes. Almost every game is modeled after it now (and we hate that) but it is so very radically different from a traditional MMO.
If you read up on game design and development history, the gaming industry and MMOs, you may begin to understand what is going on here and why this project is so important to fans of the MMORPG genre.
It is quite literally, for a lot of us, our last hope... and a type of hope I've never seen before. Never has one of us (Steven) been the one in control. Entirely, all up to him, and so far (seemingly at least) he is a traditionalist, one of us, and sees exactly what we see when we look back on all the horrible things that have gone wrong with the genre since WoW was released.
People here are very excited and very hopefuly, and you're sure to ruffle quite a lot of feathers by coming in here and suggesting something so radical as flying mounts for everyone. The only thing I can imagine being worse is if someone started suggesting dungeon-finder, lol.
Agreed. Think about the massive profits you can make getting flying mounts ready for some spoiled mayor!
"Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air."
Fine i wont use those two, ill just go further back, TBC lets say? All the regions in outland had world pvp zones and facilitated world pvp that was NOT instanced. Pre-cap doesn't matter anymore because leveling has become too easy and players get more experience from the same mobs they would've gotten back then, also this is exaggerated by heirlooms which provide players with an exp boost, and now its even made worse because mobs are scaled towards players level in the current expansion. WHAT THE HELL DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH FLYING MOUNTS????!!!!!!
"Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore."
Refer to my comment above, flying has nothing to do with open world pvp -_-...
Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.
Nowadays i dont experience ANY world pvp before and after i get my flying mount lmao. No one open world PvP anymore, because this current playerbase doesn't even have the PvP mindset to begin with. Most of them are PvErs,questers,and raiders. Literally the pvp community is a MINORITY in the current playerbase of retail WoW.
"I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally."
What path of least resistance would there be, what are the high risk, and high populated zones? Do you know if there are any? What does a high populated zones even mean? How do you know any of this already (being that you havent played the game at full launch and release when the game will have its majority player base, no one has btw) Being in a zone that is populated by enemy players is already risky enough to begin with, whether it has a normal or high populace. And flying horizontally is not as risk free as compared to flying upwards vertically, all it takes is to be able to trail after a target at the same speed and keep them in your range. Whereas flying vertically indefinitely would eventually render ones target completely out of range, even if said target was flying directly over them. This is where the invisible wall ceiling comes into play.
"You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods."
Because with the caravan system, its riskier sure, but you turn a better profit since caravans hold 100x more carrying space that personal inventory space. Someone actually transporting their goods through their own personal inventory might be technically "safer" (again one still has to look out for hostile players willing to attack them while they are flying) but it is financially HIGHLY inefficient and inferior in terms of profit compared to the caravan system. No SERIOUS trader would ever do it, it would be a complete loss of profit and time on their part.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans
"
Thank You, for actually providing me with quotes.
Wait, you didn't even look at the mount section in the wiki? because both of those quotes are there.
I was being sarcastic but im sure that it something that just "flew" over your head. Pun intended.
One can still try, the game is still in alpha, and im sure there will be additions/removals for things were that promised and not promised in the final release, there always is, in every kickstarted/crowfunded game like this.
There are two options.
Either you were being obviously sarcastic and saying that you don't think that WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant", which is my take from your post. If this is true, you are saying that you do not think WoW players are "uninformed and ignorant". However, in the context of the post, you are trying to imply that all WoW retail players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Or, you were being subvertly sarcastic over top of your obvious sarcasm (I'm not sure if sarcasm works in the same manner as a double-negative). If this is the case, you DO think that WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant".
So really, either I was right and nothing went over my head, and you do not think WoW classic players are "uninformed and ignorant", or I was wrong, you just invented double-negative sarcasm, and you think all WoW retail players are "uninformed and ignorant".
The funny thing is, regardless of which way the above goes, you are still attempting to imply that all WoW retail players have the same opinion on flying mounts.
Wow classic players dislike anything after classic in general, flying mounts are only one of those features. What was their motto again...? Oh thats right "NO CHANGES".
That being said, you were the one that believed that every retail player was a "sheeple", your words not mine.
It's worth noting though, you are the one that is trying to say they all have the same opinon on flying mounts. Not sure about you, but I would consider any group of several million people that all have the same opinion on something like that to all be sheeple.
I mean, they somehow all believe that WoW is good, of course they aren't thinking for themselves.
Are you asking yourself that before you write down your points? I think you should be.
Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time.– Jeffrey Bard
At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities. – Steven Sharif
This ^^
The rush I'd get if I got a legendary flying mount would be so awesome I can't really describe it.
Probably streaming EverQuest...
"It's worth noting though, you are the one that is trying to say they all have the same opinon on flying mounts. Not sure about you, but I would consider any group of several million people that all have the same opinion on something like that to all be sheeple."
Yes, by not wanting anything after classic, classic WoW players are by proxy, not in favor of flying mounts which came out after vanilla. By your own logic, classic WoW players are "sheeple" as well?
"I mean, they somehow all believe that WoW is good, of course they aren't thinking for themselves."
Im sure not everyone that plays WoW necessarily likes it, some people just play it cause their really isnt a better MMOrpg out there for them, that can match up to WoW. Tons of WoW players are waiting for an MMOrpg that can beat WoW, including this one.
Except for us nobodies with no outside fanbase, we will never be voted into positions of power to be able to get said mounts and only big streamers with hundreds of thousands of subscribers will, who will use their influence to constantly remain in power and never "dirty peasants" have a go at it.