Asger’s accusations were far more than what you explained and I didn’t ask for an explanation from you I asked for a specific example where I made a claim he accused me of making, which he couldn’t provide.
Well, if your intention wasn't to change the monetization then you can disregard Agerr's accusations of selfishness and just go back to arguing about the semantics of p2w and the rarity of situations where even your definition of it applies to Ashes
Oh, and considering Azherae pretty much did your job for you, I thought you'd be fine with me doing Asgerr's job for him
Did my job for me? XD he shared his opinions on his own accord and even said in some aspects he disagreed with me… and no, you didn’t do his job for him you too didn’t provide a specific example to the accusation he made so guess you failed him.
I was simply pointing out that’s their current model is in fact p2w.
So if you buy a costume what do you win? Because as a kickstarter I want to get in on this action.
Is there a title for Ultimate RP nerd with a trophy saying #1 North America and $1,000,000?
Is there a leaderboard?
Ingame titles or achievements?
What am I winning?
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
Cosmetics shops aren't p2w in a way that really matters. If we can see info about a player and decide to PvP with them based on that info that isn't just their outfit then cosmetics won't matter. If you can't see that info then you shouldn't have cosmetics in the game at all. These are pretty apparent scenarios to come across in the course of development.
“In a way that really matters” = “pvp” nice opinion but that is subjective in a role playing game with many progression paths and doesn’t apply to everyone.
Asger’s accusations were far more than what you explained and I didn’t ask for an explanation from you I asked for a specific example where I made a claim he accused me of making, which he couldn’t provide.
Well, if your intention wasn't to change the monetization then you can disregard Agerr's accusations of selfishness and just go back to arguing about the semantics of p2w and the rarity of situations where even your definition of it applies to Ashes
Oh, and considering Azherae pretty much did your job for you, I thought you'd be fine with me doing Asgerr's job for him
I'll continue, too.
That situation isn't rare.
It's not common but it's not rare either.
Roleplayer Hierarchy is a thing. Writers are very dedicated/insane.
I have personally experienced a similar (not cosmetic related directly) situation REPEATEDLY while writing 100+ 'episodes' of 'The equivalent of one of those Card Game based TV shows' using a specific TCG's community.
"I'm sorry, I need to write the duel for the next episode and your deck isn't interesting enough to be featured, it's just the standard Meta deck."
"What? Gimme a while, I can change! I can come up with a cooler deck!"
"I'll give you a day."
The next day, it's the same style but with more 'unique' cards that are functionally weaker, so they don't get the spot. Their skill didn't matter. Their ability to play the deck didn't matter. The requirement of the storyline was 'interesting' and they couldn't provide it, so they 'lost the chance'. There was only one slot in the storyline.
This was many years ago, I still write, a LOT. I've become better at 'creating ways out of that situation'. But consider why I would bother to specifically learn and study 'writing techniques to circumvent this problem' if it were particularly rare.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
None of what you said constitutes winning. You just cried about immersion. So where's the winning part?
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
None of what you said constitutes winning. You just cried about immersion. So where's the winning part?
I brought up immersion one time and not in relation to winning. Dig a littler deeper…
Did my job for me? XD he shared his opinions on his own accord and even said in some aspects he disagreed with me…
We collectively spent 10 pages talking about random shit that didn't bring any of the sides anywhere near each other. Then Azherae came into the thread and gave a direct example of why your point can be considered valid. Now, obviously, several other participants of this discussion still didn't agree with Azherae's example or maybe just didn't understand it correctly, but one Azherae's post was worth more than 10 pages of your answer's to people's counterarguments. So yes, imo she did do your job. That is assuming that you tried to show why the cosmetic store can be seen as p2w (which you yourself claim to be the pure reason for making this thread in the first place).
and no, you didn’t do his job for him you too didn’t provide a specific example to the accusation he made so guess you failed him.
There can be no direct example, as I've said, because that accusation was made based on a perceived assumption. You said that the assumption was wrong, which is why I said that the accusation can be disregarded (that is, imo of course).
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
People are hoping you can explain it some other way that will help them see your pov.
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
People are hoping you can explain it some other way that will help them see your pov.
She came in here saying “another shit iridianny take, let’s leave” and a few other insults before anything else… I really don’t owe her any explanation or anything else for that matter.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I see your point, but how often would this kind of situation happen exactly in relation to some particular store cosmetic. I guess I should've made that more explicit in that post.
I understand how and why the story might require a very specific look from a participant. But I'm not sure whether AoC's cosmetic store will have such an incredible and unique variety of items that the situation your described in your original post would happen often enough for it to be statistically significant.
And if you do think this might happen often enough, could you tell me what you're basing that assumption on?
Okay so he’s better at arguing? Cool. Never claimed to be good at it myself nor do I enjoy it.
Not really arguing. Simply presenting her pov better. You just said that the shop is p2w for your preferred gameplay. Then the whole thread went into semantics of what's p2w or what's winning or whose gameplay is more valid blahblahblah.
But nowhere in those blahs did you provide a concrete example that would support your pov. Pretty much all your arguments came down to subjective perceptions of the cosmetics, while Azherae provided an objective example that proved your point. And considering that a ton of "blahs" were around subjectivity vs objectivity, presenting an objective point would've really helped out your case. Even if all the other participants of the discussion still couldn't get that objective point through their thicc skulls. But that's more on them than on the point itself.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2022
The title is kinda like when someone says, "Shit is bad, so if you say something is 'good as shit' you must mean it's really awful."
The meaning of P2W is more than just the sum of its parts. It's a very specific concept which cannot be reasonably applied to cosmetics.
I see your point, but how often would this kind of situation happen exactly in relation to some particular store cosmetic. I guess I should've made that more explicit in that post.
I understand how and why the story might require a very specific look from a participant. But I'm not sure whether AoC's cosmetic store will have such an incredible and unique variety of items that the situation your described in your original post would happen often enough for it to be statistically significant.
And if you do think this might happen often enough, could you tell me what you're basing that assumption on?
Okay so he’s better at arguing? Cool. Never claimed to be good at it myself nor do I enjoy it.
Not really arguing. Simply presenting her pov better. You just said that the shop is p2w for your preferred gameplay. Then the whole thread went into semantics of what's p2w or what's winning or whose gameplay is more valid blahblahblah.
But nowhere in those blahs did you provide a concrete example that would support your pov. Pretty much all your arguments came down to subjective perceptions of the cosmetics, while Azherae provided an objective example that proved your point. And considering that a ton of "blahs" were around subjectivity vs objectivity, presenting an objective point would've really helped out your case. Even if all the other participants of the discussion still couldn't get that objective point through their thicc skulls. But that's more on them than on the point itself.
Goes both ways, you can't acknowledge her points and ignore counter points against that with roleplaying and its purpose.
@nikr yes, but if you think he is so great bc he was able to understand my topic and you weren't... maybe that means he's just better at simplifying things for people who need that... im not. Which is why expressed my appreciation for him.
I see your point, but how often would this kind of situation happen exactly in relation to some particular store cosmetic. I guess I should've made that more explicit in that post.
I understand how and why the story might require a very specific look from a participant. But I'm not sure whether AoC's cosmetic store will have such an incredible and unique variety of items that the situation your described in your original post would happen often enough for it to be statistically significant.
And if you do think this might happen often enough, could you tell me what you're basing that assumption on?
Okay so he’s better at arguing? Cool. Never claimed to be good at it myself nor do I enjoy it.
Not really arguing. Simply presenting her pov better. You just said that the shop is p2w for your preferred gameplay. Then the whole thread went into semantics of what's p2w or what's winning or whose gameplay is more valid blahblahblah.
But nowhere in those blahs did you provide a concrete example that would support your pov. Pretty much all your arguments came down to subjective perceptions of the cosmetics, while Azherae provided an objective example that proved your point. And considering that a ton of "blahs" were around subjectivity vs objectivity, presenting an objective point would've really helped out your case. Even if all the other participants of the discussion still couldn't get that objective point through their thicc skulls. But that's more on them than on the point itself.
On that point, Iridianny and I entirely disagree and we disagreed in the last thread too.
It's still undefined somewhat by Intrepid. In the recent months of cosmetics, I've been on the fence quite a lot relative to whether or not Iridianny was right at the time, and I still am.
That Vaelune Negotiator set (see below) for example. I can absolutely see a reality in which there is no equivalent of this set earnable in game for some reason (I would not expect this from Intrepid, but I have to accept that it is possible).
I can also see a possibility of this set, particularly given its lore, being very unique (among players).
If and only if this set is, for some reason, unique, nothing like it in game available to players, strong representation of an NPC role, etc, I'm absolutely calling it. There is nothing quite like this for the purpose and feeling it's supposed to convey, in RolePlay.
On the other extreme, if the only real difference from the ingame earned one is 'The store one is white and has normal shoes and less frills' then the reaction of 'Who even cares, it means nothing even to RolePlayers', I can see myself saying.
But I can tell you as a roleplayer, if you must 'reach the top rank in the Vaelune Negotiator Social Organization' to get the equivalent of this, and for that you have to travel to and live somewhere in the desert for a month of gameplay running around doing quests, I'm going to very much wish that I'd bought this skin, and I'm not going to feel justified 'taking the Vaelune Negotiator spot' in a story over someone who did, until I get it.
I get that people 'don't see how this can be so important to us', I really do. I also absolutely understand how 'But that's not P2W' is a valid take, but depending on your perception of the core gameplay of Ashes, it can at least be a big deal to someone like me, and everything Iridianny has ever seriously said on these forums indicates that she nearly as much if not more time specifically coordinating RP than I do.
So, I said to her then "you don't know that you should be complaining about this, wait and see".
And I say to others now "you don't know that she shouldn't be complaining about this, wait and see".
Goes both ways, you can't acknowledge her points and ignore counter points against that with roleplaying and its purpose.
Mag, the main point of Azherae's example was that there are in fact cases where cosmetic stores can be seen as p2w. They can be seen as p2w within the gameplay style of the people in said example. Those people are a minority (imo a real small one, relatively speaking), but for their gameplay the store is indeed p2w.
And as Iridianny herself said, she doesn't see "a potion that'll give you max lvl" as p2w, while to any self-respecting hardcore player that would be blasphemous. It's a matter of povs.
And as for the example itself, as Azherae said, you might've not come across people that RP in that particular way, but apparently there are some. You could argue that their opinion could be disregarded because they're a minority of a minority or that the RP playstyle itself is not something that should accounted for when talking about p2w of something, but the fact remains that there is an objective example where Iridianny's point is true. That is, a store-bought cosmetic led to someone being directly better than someone else.
If this was about being a big deal I don't think anyone would be saying much. It is different when you are saying pay to win as if you have some edge over other players or content in the game. It be simply you gaining a outfit faster. If here is not many outfits you can gain in the game that you can raise other questions. Issue with this thread rather than creating a good discussion and perhaps questioning how much available outfits will players have in game to gain and make. They went for the most extreme toxic example knowing almost everyone would not agree with it to push the thread.
Multiple accounts and multi-boxing on separate computers is not currently considered pay-to-win.[5][9][10]
My definition of pay-to-win is really anything that affects the in-game economy, the in-game action pool, your abilities and/or skills... In my opinion the inventory slots and the XP potions would be considered pay-to-win.[6] – Steven Sharif
We can just use the definition of the man himself.
We don't have to wonder, we don't even have to check relative to the conventions, we can just say:
In Ashes, getting additional inventory slots would be P2W because they affect the economy.
In Ashes, getting the additional inventory slots of your second character on another computer is not currently considered Pay To Win because... reasons.
I doubt that cosmetics will generally if ever affect economic situations (as defined by MMO cash flows) for RolePlayers, so they are not P2W, given the definition of winning we have.
That definition of winning does not currently include "MultiBoxing your Freehold Crafting Alt to produce goods or armor for you without explicit risk to that character."
If I appear to be 'being facetious', it's because of the same thing. I don't understand why MultiBoxing isn't considered P2W. To me, it totally is, and I'm also okay with it.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And I say to others now "you don't know that she shouldn't be complaining about this, wait and see".
Yes, I agree with this. I definitely hope Intrepid doesn't go down this route, but the possibility is definitely there.
I'd personally prefer if Intrepid went down the path of "you can get a particularly-looking cosmetic really easily, but if you put in a lot of work, there's gonna be way more intricacies and coloring options added to a very similar version of that cosmetic". Would this kind of approach seem fair to you and would it potentially diminish or completely remove the potential p2wness of the store?
yes, but if you think he is so great bc he was able to understand my topic and you weren't... maybe that means he's just better at simplifying things for people who need that... im not. Which is why expressed my appreciation for him.
I understood where you were coming from, but not the reason why, because even after asking you for an example multiple times I still didn't get a single one, while Azherae managed to present a concrete and direct example of the thing that made me understand why an RPer would see the shop as p2w. But imo it was definitely not a simplification. I'd say it was quite the opposite.
Do you understand that your thread holds no real value at all? @Iridianny
I'm afraid you might come to realise that the premise of your thread requires you to wear a cosmetic P2W set consisting of a huge pair of shoes, a colorful wig, and a red round nose to be properly discussed.
I think saying that the OP's thread "holds no real value" is a little disingenuous. If it truly holds no value, the thread would not have close to 200 replies in a couple days.
Visual progression is very important for many people that delve into MMOs. For others, visual progression isn't as important... and that's okay as well! We all have our opinions. If this topic has been talked about numerous times and no one actually cares about cosmetics being "P2W"... just let these type of threads/topics die. But clearly this is an important issue for some and I think is worth engaging in conversation (no matter how many times it has been brought up).
I think you might have missed my follow up post where i say it holds comical value.
As for the posts in this thread, the absolute majority completely disregards OP's premise due to how ludicrous it is to assume 0 Stats cosmetics are P2W considering the most fully fledged definition of the term, the amount of replies are irrelevant, most people are either uselessly trying to reason with the unreasonable OP's view while OP assumptions gets more and more unreasonable or rightfully mocking it.
The premise of the post is so outrageously disingenuous that it tries to make unreasonable relativisations of a well-stabilished term in an effort to push a meaningless personal definition to fit hteir purpose.
I refuse to take OP or their thread seriously.
Please, understand that it is reasonable to consider visual progression important and to say that cosmetic shop damages it, even if as a small minority that refuses to accept it as a necessary evil for reasonable monetization of an MMORPG, but calling cosmetic shops P2W is a pathetic joke that only diminishes the meaning of the term.
At the end of the day, the one trying to go against the flow of the cascade is OP, i find it comical to watch they struggle using such pitiful excuses of "arguments"(if i can even call them that). I don't want this thread to die.
If I appear to be 'being facetious', it's because of the same thing. I don't understand why MultiBoxing isn't considered P2W. To me, it totally is, and I'm also okay with it.
I'd mainly chuck it up to the problems that would arise if multiboxing was seen as direct p2w. If people start yelling at Intrepid to somehow limit multi-pc-multiboxing, Intrepid would have to either take the reputation hit (though I doubt it'd be big) or a potential lawsuit from some big american family that has 5 people all leaving in one house and wanting to play the game together, but not able to because Intrepid listened to the yelling and blocked multiple PC on one network from accessing the game.
It's a slippery slope of sorts. Or at least that's how I see it and that's my reasoning for those definitions.
And I say to others now "you don't know that she shouldn't be complaining about this, wait and see".
Yes, I agree with this. I definitely hope Intrepid doesn't go down this route, but the possibility is definitely there.
I'd personally prefer if Intrepid went down the path of "you can get a particularly-looking cosmetic really easily, but if you put in a lot of work, there's gonna be way more intricacies and coloring options added to a very similar version of that cosmetic". Would this kind of approach seem fair to you and would it potentially diminish or completely remove the potential p2wness of the store?
This is already what they have offered, and I've been fine with it from the beginning, yes.
You supposedly cannot dye storebought cosmetics, nor wear them in parts, it's a 'full transmog'.
This is the exact point where the disagreement appears between she and I.
"If they keep their promise, the only way this can really be important is if you feel you must have literally every skin."
I believe my previous responses in the last thread (Monetization) were just 'why are you here complaining that you don't trust Intrepid, to a bunch of people who do?'
We're always trusting Intrepid not to allow P2W, within the definition above. But it's still just trust, from my side. Steven says 'I understand that cosmetics are important, so we will make sure to put equal and better cosmetics earnable in game' because he wants to convey the 'you don't have to Pay to Win at looking good'.
RolePlayers just have additional requirements beyond 'just looking good' that haven't been directly addressed yet as far as I know. But Steven absolutely knows that 'Cosmetics only in the Shop and the game ones all looking lame' will bring out the pitchforks, P2W or not. So he asks us to trust.
I'm trustin'.
Looking forward to my Vaelune Negotiator-esque outfit.
Literally already won the game too because of it. Don't even have to play now
Alright everyone ashes of creation is already over , its solved. GG. Congrats to okeydoke who won. It was great knowing everyone. I hope to see you all at the next MMORPG.
Comments
Did my job for me? XD he shared his opinions on his own accord and even said in some aspects he disagreed with me… and no, you didn’t do his job for him you too didn’t provide a specific example to the accusation he made so guess you failed him.
Dude, read just a few of my posts, don’t just comment the same crap other people who didn’t read anything did… I explained the premise of that form of winning and so did a few others numerous times.
“In a way that really matters” = “pvp” nice opinion but that is subjective in a role playing game with many progression paths and doesn’t apply to everyone.
I'll continue, too.
That situation isn't rare.
It's not common but it's not rare either.
Roleplayer Hierarchy is a thing. Writers are very dedicated/insane.
I have personally experienced a similar (not cosmetic related directly) situation REPEATEDLY while writing 100+ 'episodes' of 'The equivalent of one of those Card Game based TV shows' using a specific TCG's community.
"I'm sorry, I need to write the duel for the next episode and your deck isn't interesting enough to be featured, it's just the standard Meta deck."
"What? Gimme a while, I can change! I can come up with a cooler deck!"
"I'll give you a day."
The next day, it's the same style but with more 'unique' cards that are functionally weaker, so they don't get the spot. Their skill didn't matter. Their ability to play the deck didn't matter. The requirement of the storyline was 'interesting' and they couldn't provide it, so they 'lost the chance'. There was only one slot in the storyline.
This was many years ago, I still write, a LOT. I've become better at 'creating ways out of that situation'. But consider why I would bother to specifically learn and study 'writing techniques to circumvent this problem' if it were particularly rare.
None of what you said constitutes winning. You just cried about immersion. So where's the winning part?
I brought up immersion one time and not in relation to winning. Dig a littler deeper…
She came in here saying “another shit iridianny take, let’s leave” and a few other insults before anything else… I really don’t owe her any explanation or anything else for that matter.
I understand how and why the story might require a very specific look from a participant. But I'm not sure whether AoC's cosmetic store will have such an incredible and unique variety of items that the situation your described in your original post would happen often enough for it to be statistically significant.
And if you do think this might happen often enough, could you tell me what you're basing that assumption on?
Not really arguing. Simply presenting her pov better. You just said that the shop is p2w for your preferred gameplay. Then the whole thread went into semantics of what's p2w or what's winning or whose gameplay is more valid blahblahblah.
But nowhere in those blahs did you provide a concrete example that would support your pov. Pretty much all your arguments came down to subjective perceptions of the cosmetics, while Azherae provided an objective example that proved your point. And considering that a ton of "blahs" were around subjectivity vs objectivity, presenting an objective point would've really helped out your case. Even if all the other participants of the discussion still couldn't get that objective point through their thicc skulls. But that's more on them than on the point itself.
The meaning of P2W is more than just the sum of its parts. It's a very specific concept which cannot be reasonably applied to cosmetics.
Goes both ways, you can't acknowledge her points and ignore counter points against that with roleplaying and its purpose.
On that point, Iridianny and I entirely disagree and we disagreed in the last thread too.
It's still undefined somewhat by Intrepid. In the recent months of cosmetics, I've been on the fence quite a lot relative to whether or not Iridianny was right at the time, and I still am.
That Vaelune Negotiator set (see below) for example. I can absolutely see a reality in which there is no equivalent of this set earnable in game for some reason (I would not expect this from Intrepid, but I have to accept that it is possible).
I can also see a possibility of this set, particularly given its lore, being very unique (among players).
If and only if this set is, for some reason, unique, nothing like it in game available to players, strong representation of an NPC role, etc, I'm absolutely calling it. There is nothing quite like this for the purpose and feeling it's supposed to convey, in RolePlay.
On the other extreme, if the only real difference from the ingame earned one is 'The store one is white and has normal shoes and less frills' then the reaction of 'Who even cares, it means nothing even to RolePlayers', I can see myself saying.
But I can tell you as a roleplayer, if you must 'reach the top rank in the Vaelune Negotiator Social Organization' to get the equivalent of this, and for that you have to travel to and live somewhere in the desert for a month of gameplay running around doing quests, I'm going to very much wish that I'd bought this skin, and I'm not going to feel justified 'taking the Vaelune Negotiator spot' in a story over someone who did, until I get it.
I get that people 'don't see how this can be so important to us', I really do. I also absolutely understand how 'But that's not P2W' is a valid take, but depending on your perception of the core gameplay of Ashes, it can at least be a big deal to someone like me, and everything Iridianny has ever seriously said on these forums indicates that she nearly as much if not more time specifically coordinating RP than I do.
So, I said to her then "you don't know that you should be complaining about this, wait and see".
And I say to others now "you don't know that she shouldn't be complaining about this, wait and see".
And as Iridianny herself said, she doesn't see "a potion that'll give you max lvl" as p2w, while to any self-respecting hardcore player that would be blasphemous. It's a matter of povs.
And as for the example itself, as Azherae said, you might've not come across people that RP in that particular way, but apparently there are some. You could argue that their opinion could be disregarded because they're a minority of a minority or that the RP playstyle itself is not something that should accounted for when talking about p2w of something, but the fact remains that there is an objective example where Iridianny's point is true. That is, a store-bought cosmetic led to someone being directly better than someone else.
My definition of pay-to-win is really anything that affects the in-game economy, the in-game action pool, your abilities and/or skills... In my opinion the inventory slots and the XP potions would be considered pay-to-win.[6] – Steven Sharif
We can just use the definition of the man himself.
We don't have to wonder, we don't even have to check relative to the conventions, we can just say:
In Ashes, getting additional inventory slots would be P2W because they affect the economy.
In Ashes, getting the additional inventory slots of your second character on another computer is not currently considered Pay To Win because... reasons.
I doubt that cosmetics will generally if ever affect economic situations (as defined by MMO cash flows) for RolePlayers, so they are not P2W, given the definition of winning we have.
That definition of winning does not currently include "MultiBoxing your Freehold Crafting Alt to produce goods or armor for you without explicit risk to that character."
If I appear to be 'being facetious', it's because of the same thing. I don't understand why MultiBoxing isn't considered P2W. To me, it totally is, and I'm also okay with it.
I'd personally prefer if Intrepid went down the path of "you can get a particularly-looking cosmetic really easily, but if you put in a lot of work, there's gonna be way more intricacies and coloring options added to a very similar version of that cosmetic". Would this kind of approach seem fair to you and would it potentially diminish or completely remove the potential p2wness of the store?
You didn't buy that skin? That's one of the best costumes Intrepid has put out in awhile. I bought it.
Literally already won the game too because of it. Don't even have to play now
I think you might have missed my follow up post where i say it holds comical value.
As for the posts in this thread, the absolute majority completely disregards OP's premise due to how ludicrous it is to assume 0 Stats cosmetics are P2W considering the most fully fledged definition of the term, the amount of replies are irrelevant, most people are either uselessly trying to reason with the unreasonable OP's view while OP assumptions gets more and more unreasonable or rightfully mocking it.
The premise of the post is so outrageously disingenuous that it tries to make unreasonable relativisations of a well-stabilished term in an effort to push a meaningless personal definition to fit hteir purpose.
I refuse to take OP or their thread seriously.
Please, understand that it is reasonable to consider visual progression important and to say that cosmetic shop damages it, even if as a small minority that refuses to accept it as a necessary evil for reasonable monetization of an MMORPG, but calling cosmetic shops P2W is a pathetic joke that only diminishes the meaning of the term.
At the end of the day, the one trying to go against the flow of the cascade is OP, i find it comical to watch they struggle using such pitiful excuses of "arguments"(if i can even call them that). I don't want this thread to die.
Aren't we all sinners?
It's a slippery slope of sorts. Or at least that's how I see it and that's my reasoning for those definitions.
This is already what they have offered, and I've been fine with it from the beginning, yes.
You supposedly cannot dye storebought cosmetics, nor wear them in parts, it's a 'full transmog'.
This is the exact point where the disagreement appears between she and I.
"If they keep their promise, the only way this can really be important is if you feel you must have literally every skin."
I believe my previous responses in the last thread (Monetization) were just 'why are you here complaining that you don't trust Intrepid, to a bunch of people who do?'
We're always trusting Intrepid not to allow P2W, within the definition above. But it's still just trust, from my side. Steven says 'I understand that cosmetics are important, so we will make sure to put equal and better cosmetics earnable in game' because he wants to convey the 'you don't have to Pay to Win at looking good'.
RolePlayers just have additional requirements beyond 'just looking good' that haven't been directly addressed yet as far as I know. But Steven absolutely knows that 'Cosmetics only in the Shop and the game ones all looking lame' will bring out the pitchforks, P2W or not. So he asks us to trust.
I'm trustin'.
Looking forward to my Vaelune Negotiator-esque outfit.
The sad part is, there is, as I noted, a situation in which this is true.
Promise me you won't take the Negotiator spot in our longstanding future Highlands RP group with your monetary advantage?
Alright everyone ashes of creation is already over , its solved. GG. Congrats to okeydoke who won. It was great knowing everyone. I hope to see you all at the next MMORPG.