@Dygz in any mmorpg you have played have you seen any member turned away because of the visual look of their armor or weapons (not in context of stats but only because of the look, not including clown looks etc)
I know some of you won't watch these short video clips (or may disregard this reply altogether) just because of who is speaking in them but I think they do a pretty good job of showing a tiny window into why cosmetic shops throw a wrench into how some people enjoy MMORPGs or multiplayer games in general. This post is also meant to be lighthearted and, if not persuasive, at least maybe a little entertaining. Whenever You Can Buy Something, That Something No Longer Matters
How many of you guys were proud of the first character that you got to max level in an MMO? Let me ask you another question... Would you feel the same way if you just knew that somebody else standing right next to you, at the same level that you are, bought it?
Whenever you can buy something... that something no longer matters. That's why I don't care about TCG mounts or store mounts in my Mount Offs. It's not impressive to me that somebody has a Swift Spectral Tiger. Wow! You have ten thousand dollars... Congratulations! That doesn't mean [poop] to me. This is My Opinion...It's Subjective
I want to make sure everybody understands this... This is my opinion. It's completely arbitrary. There is no like... this is not written on one of the tablets on the side of the [frickin'] mountain... that God wrote the Ten Commandments next to. This is my arbitrary line in the sand that I draw. It's subjective. The thing is once you abstract things enough, having a computer becomes Pay to Win. Buying the game becomes Pay to Win. So I'm not looking for an endless [Russian Nesting Dolls] of like [fricking] abstractions to obfuscate the conversation. Let's watch the video. People willingly misunderstand what I'm saying in order to try to catch me in some sort of logical fallacy.
A lot of people take sides in this argument, and feel fully vindicated in saying that Lost Ark is Pay to Win or Lost Ark is not Pay to Win. But here's the thing... Both answers are right. It all depends on how you define Pay to Win. So when you see two people or more arguing about a game like this being Pay to Win, make sure they've at least agreed upon the definition first because 99% of the time they're arguing from different platforms... and they're both right, so neither of them is gonna back down. So anyway, that's where we are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJp8pRTFVe4
Like I already said before in prior replies, I understand that some people have no qualms with a cosmetic store in AoC. And I totally respect that... But that doesn't take away the fact that some players feel the store impacts their playing experience in a negative way.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I offer an alternative. If ashes can have harmonised servers then why not add a tier for people that hate cosmetics. They pay 50 dollars a month. And it removes all cosmetics for them (not for everyone) they're not given the cosmetics. It just removes their access to them so that way they can't complain they exist and they're contributing the same to the game as the whales.
I know some of you won't watch these short video clips (or may disregard this reply altogether) just because of who is speaking in them but I think they do a pretty good job of showing a tiny window into why cosmetic shops throw a wrench into how some people enjoy MMORPGs or multiplayer games in general. This post is also meant to be lighthearted and, if not persuasive, at least maybe a little entertaining. Whenever You Can Buy Something, That Something No Longer Matters
How many of you guys were proud of the first character that you got to max level in an MMO? Let me ask you another question... Would you feel the same way if you just knew that somebody else standing right next to you, at the same level that you are, bought it?
Whenever you can buy something... that something no longer matters. That's why I don't care about TCG mounts or store mounts in my Mount Offs. It's not impressive to me that somebody has a Swift Spectral Tiger. Wow! You have ten thousand dollars... Congratulations that doesn't mean [poop] to me. This is My Opinion...It's Subjective
I want to make sure everybody understands this... This is my opinion. It's completely arbitrary. There is no like... this is not written on one of the tablets on the side of the [frickin'] mountain... that God wrote the Ten Commandments next to. This is my arbitrary line in the sand that I draw. It's subjective. The thing is once you abstract things enough, having a computer becomes Pay to Win. Buying the game becomes Pay to Win. So I'm not looking for an endless [Russian Nesting Dolls] of extra of of like [fricking] abstractions to obfuscate the conversation. Let's watch the video. People willingly misunderstand what I'm saying in order to try to catch me in some sort of logical fallacy.
A lot of people take sides in this argument, and feel fully vindicated in saying that Lost Ark is Pay to Win or Lost Ark is not Pay to Win. But here's the thing... Both answers are right. It all depends on how you define Pay to Win. So when you see two people or more arguing about a game like this being Pay to Win, make sure they've at least agreed upon the definition first because 99% of the time they're arguing from different platforms... and they're both right, so neither of them is gonna back down. So anyway, that's where we are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJp8pRTFVe4
Like I already said before in prior replies, I understand that some people have no qualms with a cosmetic store in AoC. And I totally respect that... But that doesn't take away the fact that some players feel the store impacts their playing experience in a negative way.
I enjoy his content I have no issues with him lol. I can understand hoe people feels the experience is lessoned when you can buy stuff from the shop. Im sure everyone understands that but that isn't the issue at hand.
The issue is changing your look with money being called P2W. That being the focus of the discussion and being used makes people question or combat why they are saying it. If you use a buzzword you get the strong reaction you are aiming for. Which prevents a actual discussion even more so when you triple down on it.
Can we just let this die? Everything was said. Time to let this fade away
No, we cant let this die.
We needed azhrae and her meaningless posts to give this topic a second wind. She supported the OP (who was shamelessly attacked from all these bored people for 14 pages just for being annoying for her title choice) and now this can reach another 14. Just to be a contrarian she gave this topic the fresh breath it needed right when it was about to die.
People should be embarrashed. Azhrae for her level of pretentiousness and everybody else for buckling under her fluff, not calling her out, rather tippy-toeing around pseudo-philosophical meanings of p2w.
I gotta say, the change of language by some people here when addressing the OP and when addressing the crap azhrae brought into this is striking.
This is one more of those topics that shows that gamers deserved the lip service of previous studios and the lack of communication. Why? Because people act like a circus online.
Can we just let this die? Everything was said. Time to let this fade away
This is one more of those topics that shows that gamers deserved the lip service of previous studios and the lack of communication. Why? Because people act like a circus online.
Gahd damn I have been away doing stuff but I stand by what I said earlier. Cosmetics aren't gameplay, therefore they cant be pay to win. And winning is a factor set by the games design, not by a personal goal. So personal RP "advantages" are completely irrelevant.
Both Answers Are Right... It All Depends on How You Define Pay 2 Win.
I disagree.
What matters is how Intrepid define it.
I agree with you that they have the right to do whatever they want with their game. I'm also allowed to have an opinion and it doesn't bother me how popular or unpopular it may be.
Can we just let this die? Everything was said. Time to let this fade away
No, we cant let this die.
We needed azhrae and her meaningless posts to give this topic a second wind. She supported the OP (who was shamelessly attacked from all these bored people for 14 pages just for being annoying for her title choice) and now this can reach another 14. Just to be a contrarian she gave this topic the fresh breath it needed right when it was about to die.
People should be embarrashed. Azhrae for her level of pretentiousness and everybody else for buckling under her fluff, not calling her out, rather tippy-toeing around pseudo-philosophical meanings of p2w.
I gotta say, the change of language by some people here when addressing the OP and when addressing the crap azhrae brought into this is striking.
This is one more of those topics that shows that gamers deserved the lip service of previous studios and the lack of communication. Why? Because people act like a circus online.
I called her out on it and even tried to explain but there is only so much I can do. I'm looking through the old thread trying to find out why azhrae suddenly swapped sides and how to burn this thread down like the last one.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Both Answers Are Right... It All Depends on How You Define Pay 2 Win.
I disagree.
What matters is how Intrepid define it.
I agree with you that they have the right to do whatever they want with their game. I'm also allowed to have an opinion and it doesn't bother me how popular or unpopular it may be.
You are allowed your own opinion - but only on subjective things.
You are not allowed your own opinion on objective things.
The meaning behind Intrepids statements in regards to pay to win are objective, not subjective.
People are allowed to hold the opinion that they do not like that objective reality, that is fine. However, they are not allowed to have the opinion that intrepid meant to say something that Intrepid did not say.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic.
Since you are going to insult me again....I gotta bring that fire with Natasha
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
This is the most real you have ever been, i almost want to recruit you since I can see the evil in your heart. You would make a good pvper.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Yes. We choose to embrace that your opinion is wrong. And that cosmetics are meaningless to direct power increases and that they have absolutely no pay to win aspect unless we jump through completely delusional scenarios in some made up RP cringelord scenario that would occur in a one in a million situation. And because we're not smooth-brained idiots, we've elected not to change our opinion.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Until you provide a legitimate argument, I will repeat my previous statement. Your entire argument is based on how you feel, not on how the game is designed. Your argument would be relevant if the games design for winning was based on specific cosmetics to collect or collecting them all. Your personal interests and goals mean nothing in the grand scheme of an established design of a games world mechanics if they do not align with each other.
That being said, this quoted comment by you leaves me no choice but to purchase another cosmetic purely for the sake of being petty.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Yes.
We choose to embrace that your opinion is wrong.
And because we're not smooth-brained idiots...
Glad you agree so blatantly.
Also, that’s not something you “embrace,” opinions are opinions and typically aren’t right or wrong unless you are speaking from a moral standpoint.
Lastly, I find that hard to believe considering your picture alone is someone in a cheap wig sticking a game controller up their nose while staring off into the distance mouth agape.
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
It's thanks to people like you and comments like the one you wrote that I have inspiration to make more memes, thank you sincerely
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Lmfao. You are all pathetic. You choose to ignore the blatant lie that this video game won’t have pay to win because it makes the milk you constantly suckle from Steven’s teat of promises taste sour. You all have sat on this post all day repeating the same limited and subjective opinion that cosmetics don’t affect your precious number score, so they must be meaningless in a role playing adventure game. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you have probably never tried to see life from someone else’s point of view. Just regurgitating whatever makes your reality less pitiful on discussion boards that “piss you off”. Keep throwing your money at this game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date in sight so they can give you your meaningless little forum titles and keep you soothed as they keep convincing you they need even more of it.
Comments
Especially not in Ashes.
now comes this : https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/53171/cosmetic-shop-is-p2w#latest
Whenever You Can Buy Something, That Something No Longer Matters
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxJjJLg_KLSNOV0WCTEpGsAR6ZYlEcqXJg
How many of you guys were proud of the first character that you got to max level in an MMO? Let me ask you another question... Would you feel the same way if you just knew that somebody else standing right next to you, at the same level that you are, bought it?
Whenever you can buy something... that something no longer matters. That's why I don't care about TCG mounts or store mounts in my Mount Offs. It's not impressive to me that somebody has a Swift Spectral Tiger. Wow! You have ten thousand dollars... Congratulations! That doesn't mean [poop] to me.
This is My Opinion...It's Subjective
I want to make sure everybody understands this... This is my opinion. It's completely arbitrary. There is no like... this is not written on one of the tablets on the side of the [frickin'] mountain... that God wrote the Ten Commandments next to. This is my arbitrary line in the sand that I draw. It's subjective. The thing is once you abstract things enough, having a computer becomes Pay to Win. Buying the game becomes Pay to Win. So I'm not looking for an endless [Russian Nesting Dolls] of like [fricking] abstractions to obfuscate the conversation. Let's watch the video. People willingly misunderstand what I'm saying in order to try to catch me in some sort of logical fallacy.
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxybVdbKi-Jlb5DbGc7TImb7NXXaIYvp3h
Both Answers Are Right... It All Depends on How You Define Pay 2 Win
A lot of people take sides in this argument, and feel fully vindicated in saying that Lost Ark is Pay to Win or Lost Ark is not Pay to Win. But here's the thing... Both answers are right. It all depends on how you define Pay to Win. So when you see two people or more arguing about a game like this being Pay to Win, make sure they've at least agreed upon the definition first because 99% of the time they're arguing from different platforms... and they're both right, so neither of them is gonna back down. So anyway, that's where we are.
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxHU6z0BlAMti6HshDydu_yZq0Vc-AYubm
Just a funny video but still relevant to the conversation and kinda ties everything together...
Like I already said before in prior replies, I understand that some people have no qualms with a cosmetic store in AoC. And I totally respect that... But that doesn't take away the fact that some players feel the store impacts their playing experience in a negative way.
That way it's even.
I enjoy his content I have no issues with him lol. I can understand hoe people feels the experience is lessoned when you can buy stuff from the shop. Im sure everyone understands that but that isn't the issue at hand.
The issue is changing your look with money being called P2W. That being the focus of the discussion and being used makes people question or combat why they are saying it. If you use a buzzword you get the strong reaction you are aiming for. Which prevents a actual discussion even more so when you triple down on it.
No, we cant let this die.
We needed azhrae and her meaningless posts to give this topic a second wind. She supported the OP (who was shamelessly attacked from all these bored people for 14 pages just for being annoying for her title choice) and now this can reach another 14. Just to be a contrarian she gave this topic the fresh breath it needed right when it was about to die.
People should be embarrashed. Azhrae for her level of pretentiousness and everybody else for buckling under her fluff, not calling her out, rather tippy-toeing around pseudo-philosophical meanings of p2w.
I gotta say, the change of language by some people here when addressing the OP and when addressing the crap azhrae brought into this is striking.
This is one more of those topics that shows that gamers deserved the lip service of previous studios and the lack of communication. Why? Because people act like a circus online.
What matters is how Intrepid define it.
We're trying to put in real hours here.
Say what?
I agree with you that they have the right to do whatever they want with their game. I'm also allowed to have an opinion and it doesn't bother me how popular or unpopular it may be.
I called her out on it and even tried to explain but there is only so much I can do. I'm looking through the old thread trying to find out why azhrae suddenly swapped sides and how to burn this thread down like the last one.
You are allowed your own opinion - but only on subjective things.
You are not allowed your own opinion on objective things.
The meaning behind Intrepids statements in regards to pay to win are objective, not subjective.
People are allowed to hold the opinion that they do not like that objective reality, that is fine. However, they are not allowed to have the opinion that intrepid meant to say something that Intrepid did not say.
Since you are going to insult me again....I gotta bring that fire with Natasha
This is the most real you have ever been, i almost want to recruit you since I can see the evil in your heart. You would make a good pvper.
Yes. We choose to embrace that your opinion is wrong. And that cosmetics are meaningless to direct power increases and that they have absolutely no pay to win aspect unless we jump through completely delusional scenarios in some made up RP cringelord scenario that would occur in a one in a million situation. And because we're not smooth-brained idiots, we've elected not to change our opinion.
Until you provide a legitimate argument, I will repeat my previous statement. Your entire argument is based on how you feel, not on how the game is designed. Your argument would be relevant if the games design for winning was based on specific cosmetics to collect or collecting them all. Your personal interests and goals mean nothing in the grand scheme of an established design of a games world mechanics if they do not align with each other.
That being said, this quoted comment by you leaves me no choice but to purchase another cosmetic purely for the sake of being petty.
Glad you agree so blatantly.
Also, that’s not something you “embrace,” opinions are opinions and typically aren’t right or wrong unless you are speaking from a moral standpoint.
Lastly, I find that hard to believe considering your picture alone is someone in a cheap wig sticking a game controller up their nose while staring off into the distance mouth agape.
It's thanks to people like you and comments like the one you wrote that I have inspiration to make more memes, thank you sincerely
And yet, even they don't subscribe to your terrible opinion.
So how low on the IQ level are we sinking before we agree to yours?