Great update overall, I speed and pacing of things were really good (I see some people asking for things to be slower to the point of 2 arrows, can't say i agree with that.). Buff gameplay seems interesting as well, based on how glass cannon the class is pushing the mobility to have a bit more distance could be good (just distance not frequency of how often skills are used). Looking forward to seeing more of the overall class working in action towards Alpha 2.
Really liked the current direction. Combat is starting to look like it's getting good. Only have a few pieces of feedback.
First small thing is something some people will roll their eyes at, but yeah, for an archetype like Ranger I really would like a few more skillshots.
Next is the short bow basic attack did seem a tad too fast. Also, the animation for Barrage seemed a bit scuffed because of how fast it fires, the player character's hand animation seems like it can't keep up with the firing.
The main bit of feedback is regarding Hunts and Marks though. Currently, Marks and Hunts feel quite bland and don't seem like it's a Rangers identity. For example, Steven spoke about Fighter and their Momentum mechanic and how the more damage they deal/take, the more powerful they become. That sounds like something that is Fighter-esque. But with Ranger, it just seems like a basic "click button and apply buff to self/debuff to enemy.", if you hadn't told me what archetype it belonged to, I might have said Bard since they're just regular buffs/debuffs.
In League, there's a character called Kindred where you select a target to "Hunt" and when you kill them, you gain power. Why not have something where you mark a target, and once you deal a certain amount of damage or CC them for a certain amount of time or some other metric, you get a buff, and then the mark on that target goes on cooldown so you can't remark the same target over and over but need to "chain" hunts/marks together to stack the hunt buff?
Just a suggestion, I'm not a game designer but the current implementation of Marks/Hunts don't seem like they're a mechanic that defines the Ranger archetype as a whole, they just seem like a regular buff/debuff that any archetype could have.
Fantastic work with the Ranger archetype!
As a 15+ years dedicated ranger/hunter, I am absolutely pleased with the current direction
That said, I checked back on my older post about "a vision for Ranger" and both the positive and negative points still last.
Highlights & positives:
burst potential / burst-capable archetype - hopefully some short-duration stealth will be a part of the base Ranger toolkit as well for ambushes
pace of fire with a shortbow - I think this is a part where it does not need to be realistic, afterall, it is a fantasy world (moreover, a game)
magical/colorful shots (with a curve trajectory) in the base Ranger toolkit - living in a world full of magic and magical foes, plain physical arrows would be underwhelming even for a base Ranger
Disengage ability, including its directionality
different ammunitions
marks and hunts (though we could just directly call them "aspects")
Disengage
the option to dictate the direction of jump is brilliant - THANK YOU (long needed in other games)
though a separate animation for forward/side jumps would be appreciated
it does not make any sense to limit Disengage to a backward jump - everyone would be using it for forward jumps anyway, it does not require that much of a skill, so the limitation to jump only backwards would be just a stupid obstacle
it would be great to have it off global cooldown - to be able to cast abilities (like Barrage or any instant ability) already while disengaging to make the combat "agile" (feels great in WoW), or in other words, for Disengage to not break channeling abilities (like Barrage)
Negatives & feedback:
melee abilities completely missing in the base Ranger toolkit
I am aware that the game offers a lot of customization via secondary archetypes, weapon switching etc., but that all sounds like mutually exclusive choices, or at the very least trade-offs. Either you go ranged with a bow, or you go melee with a sword. Or you might create the desire mix, but ineffective, because it was not an intented playstyle.
I would rather like to see (and absolutely love) a symbiosis of ranged and melee abilities in a single base Ranger package by default. Because it is a natural necessity for a ranger to be able to sometimes deal with enemies up close. And it should not require a trade-off for any ranged abilities.
For me, even in terms of ranged Ranger, the ideal base toolkit is about 90% of ranged/bow combat abilities and 10% melee combat abilities. The melee abilities might be only few and usable sparsely, but always more effective than using ranged abilities in melee. After that point, it is an individual choice to spec further into melee.
A great example would be vanilla WoW, where Hunters were, without a doubt, ranged archers, but they still had a melee attack (Raptor Strike) and a melee CC (Wing Clip).
Fantasy-wise, this is a natural and inherent part of all archers/shooters, from Legolas (esp. in Hobbit trilogy) through Hawkeye and Green Arrow to Mandalorian, and many more, to pull out a sword or daggers and fight, while still being considered 100% archers.
Even as a ranged Ranger, I am looking for a level of symbiosis between the ranged and melee combat. It doesn't mean I want to be a melee ranger. It's just to spice the ranged combat up (and make it more realistic). To achieve that, melee abilities should be a default part of the base Ranger toolkit. At very least, it makes more sense to start like this and allow to specialize for fully-ranged (as something extra), than the other way around.
To summarize: The elementary ability for rangers to do something in melee should be a default state and require zero sacrifice or trade-off in terms of ranged abilities, talent points or even the choice of a secondary archetype. Such abilities should be the best option to press when engaged in melee, but without specializing further into them, they would have (very) limited usage (in terms of CDs).
quivers!
Personally, it is always immersion-breaking to see a ranger shooting without a quiver. It is part of the weapon. It should absolutely be there already for the cosmetic/fantasy purpose.
Utility (ideas/expectations):
based on vision (far sight, stealth detection, tracking (on mini-map))
movement speed buffs (incl. allies)
in addition to animal aspects, air element (wind) could be used as well (e.g. a bursting shot leaving a trail of wind as a speed buff for allies)
damage output increase (incl. allies) - maybe an aura when close to a Ranger
in general, I would like every archetype to have at least 1 active group utility skill and some archetypes more skills (rather than most archetypes 0 skills and some more) - being able to press some button to help the group mid-fight is one of the coolest feelings and should not require a support role - it's understandable that Rangers are on the "poor side" of the group utility specter among the archetypes, but they should still be able to positively influence allies, not just negatively influence enemies, because it feels good
Bow wielding & postures:
I would absolutely love if there would be multiple variants of bow wielding & postures to choose from (available to all races) - from horizontal to vertical bow wielding, from upright to legs apart, from a stoic posture to a dynamic posture - it happens often that you find a cool race but it's bow wielding & postures does not resonate with you
Animal companions
I hope that Rangers (as primary archetypes) would have some inherent option ("affinity") to utilize animal companions (if they choose so), without the need to select a specific secondary archetype
I hope that Rangers (as primary archetypes) would have some inherent option ("affinity") to utilize animal companions (if they choose so), without the need to select a specific secondary archetype
Thanks for the great update!
Any and all archetypes can utilize combat pets as part of their kit if they wish! But it comes at the cost of personal power as it takes up an item slot! :] Read more here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_pets
* High Mobility (to be able to move freely through difficult terrain, faster moment option)
* High Perception (to be able to track creatures/resources and hidden things, Night Vision)
* Wilderness Attunement (various passive bonus when out in the open, maybe with terrain specialization via talent points, maybe some wild creatures won´t attack the ranger or they could have a lower threat range)
* Some bonus for using a battle pet.
* Alpha Striker (High burst damage potential vs a single target, not so good with AoE)
* Traps
* Various types of arrows (a different arrowhead for different types of creatures)
* Camouflage
* Poison Resistance/Use
I was going over the abilities still have something to say about
The Big Bear Trap I would actually like to retract the part about the bear trap being to big as it turns I forgot about the inner circle and outer circle game mechanic. So if you get hit by trap inner or outer circle then you get stunned but if you get hit the inner circle of a bear trap then get hit with additional effect. Very common game mechanic in League of Legends. So rewerds rangers that are highly accurate and still pretty good for rangers that sometimes have trouble landing traps. So huge win for rangers in my opinion.
Air Strike (mage Dragon strike better name or Pheonix Strike) I really like aerial moves like a ton. Think it is another huge win for rangers. The way it gets targeted not clear to me. Do you just jump and at the apex of the jump that is the pint used to determine the loacation of area of effects? Fun factor on this one is like a 10 out of 10
Call of the Wild This makes the Ranger more slippery harder to close in on. Just when you think you had him, he got away type of thing. another huge win.
As far the marks like hunt fo the bear and hunte of the tiger and hunt of the raven. I actually personally like this style of paly think is does add some roleplaying value. Do not remember from the video but there should be some in game mark on the target even if only ranger and allies can see it that denotes what mark they have. Since classes in Ashes of Creation do not have a riculous amout of abilities then this open up more opportunity for mini games so Imbue ammo and marks are really good. Guess there could be other mini games but this are fine.
Rein of Death looks really good talking about partical effect .
Sorry think I am going to go back and rewatch video to catch game mechanics to finish post. I do have some not so positive things to say but right now just really excited about the class. Plus class not done yet so....Great Work on this one. The effort is pretty obvious to me.
Movement is still janky and unrealistic in forms of directional changes. No variation in directional dodges - same exact movement in all directions, again unrealistic. Toons don't leave even rudimentary foot prints in snow - environment and toons are not merged into one world system.
Particle effects are rubbish - no snow is churned up, thrown about or disturbed by the explosive particles. The particles are just extra/excessive to a natural scenario which would be far superior. The mark and hunt animations are all the same - a massive lost opportunity to create something exceptional. Furthermore, more marks and hunts are not required - the current amount shown is more than enough.
No ability for targeted players to dodge projectiles. Tab target is overpowered and should not be so accurate - rapid fire looks ridiculous especially since all the projectiles hit whilst the target bounced left and right. Homing arrows are just a stupid idea because amassed Rangers will just be too difficult to stop whilst every shot homes in on the targets. Another ridiculous effect is when rapid fire still operates after a kill but emits no projectiles - it is completely immersion breaking.
I do like how neverwinter has shaped the ranger though.
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TriforCeMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited January 15
This ranger looks like absolute perfection. The best ranger or best class I’ve ever played in an mmo was the ranger in Aion. AoC’s ranger looks even better and has evolved.
Love how organic combat looks and appears to feel - the combat cadence looks like absolute perfection. Love the mobility, and multiple global cooldowns. Combat looks like it is very engaging - well done! Can’t wait to see how subclasses play out. Definitely going to be playing a ranger.
I’d love to see a subclass that offers more CC, the snare ammo is great, but I’d like to see a subclass offer much more like stuns, sleep arrow etc.
Here is some feedback I thought of based from those discussed during the office hours.
Hunts/Marks:
Issue: Some Community Members did not feel like this was a "unique" mechanic like the momentum for fighters, or the elemental stacks from mages.
Idea: Let the rangers have a resource they build up, similar to a rage mechanic. Here are a few different ideas about this concept:
1) Whenever a ranger deals damage to a target, they start to build up a "Familiarity" meter. This can be done based off of damage done, number of hits done, number of crits, possibly the ability to gain it based off of distance to target [If you do a melee ranger, staying close builds familiarity, but if you choose range, distance builds it). Once you reach key milestones in this meter (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%) you can then activate a "spirit animal" to give you a buff. Raven gives you 10%, 15%, 25%, 35% armor penetration based on the threshold in which you saved your familiarity points for.
This could allow you to say stack up a Raven up to 100% and then consume it all to give 35% armor penetration. Then while that is active, you could maybe get to a quick 25% familiarity and active Tiger for a short burst of Armor Penetration + extra crit chance.
2) You attune yourself to an animal of your choosing, and based off of that animal of your choosing that determines how you obtain familiarity to the target. IF you go with a high crit chance, maybe you go with Tiger to gain it. Or, if you know you are going against a squishy physical defense build, you activate the stance that gains more familiarity based off of that to get quicker bonuses.
What is a Ranger?
Pathfinder Rangers had interesting concepts where you have favored terrains and monsters. It would be interesting if that was possibly done as well where you can "attune" to a terrain/monster to gain bonuses. You can then use skill tree points to adjust how these work.
Default: you can only attune to one of each initially based off your "Studying" performed on that monster/location. This cooldown could be 6 hours to start (1-day in Vera). The cooldown could be decreased or the number of studies you can be knowledgeable of could increase by skill tree point distribution.
Bonuses: Monsters - You could possibly make it specific to Defense Penetration, Extra Damage, Extra Crit, +% to apply negative status conditions, +% to defenses against the monsters, ability to apply unique debuffs to the monster (instead of normally "bleed" it could be upgraded to "Gaping wound" that does more/extra to the monster and replaces all bleed modifiers).
Terrain: You and your party can move quicker in that terrain. Any natural disasters/traps deal reduced damage. Negative status affects caused by the terrain have shorter durations, reduced affect. Faster regen when "camping" or possibly faster regen while out of combat in general to help reduce the need to camp "like a passive foraging ability". Increase duration of food buffs, or unique food buffs.
I've come here after the Office Hours discussion. Just want to chime in on the Class Fantasy for the Ranger. I won't say the Ranger should be this or should be that because the class identity is different for everyone, so I will instead say what I hope to see possible for the class.
I hope to be able to embody the stealth sniper. The ambusher in the trees or hills. Traps laid, hidden away by terrain or skilled camouflage, held breath awaiting my prey. I hope that if not accomplished in the base Archetype of Ranger, then this may see fruition in the "Scout" (Ranger-Rogue) or some other appropriate secondary class selection. I'd like to see this combat maybe more about timing and precise shots and less about the rapid fire machine gun type fighting that the class update seemed to have a lot of.
First off, brilliant stream, I think it's my favorite one so far! The ranger archetype is looking good so far however there are a few things that I think could be improved on.
With the Marks and Hunts being the resource for the Ranger, these abilities need to feel impact and something that the other classes are unable to replicate, while being malleable enough to be affected by augmentations.
Hunts
Currently, you activate you Hunt and you get a buff. That doesn't feel like a class ability, that just feels like a buff any class could have if you changed the name. Hunts need to feel like they have a constant effect on the Ranger and have more innate complexity than regular abilities. I think Hunts should be more like Stances that can be activated for a greater effect, however loose their passive effect once they go on cooldown (like an animal going into a frenzy and needing a rest afterwards). For example:
Tiger:
- Stance: While attuned to Tiger stance you gain increased critical chance
- Hunt: You unleash the ferocity of the Tiger greatly increasing movement speed and attack speed for all weapon attacks. You can not go into Tiger stance while the Tiger Hunt is on cooldown.
Eagle:
- Stance: While attuned to Eagle you gain increased physical penetration
- Hunt: You unleash the wrath of eagle, increasing the maximum range with bows and dealing increased damage to lower health enemies. You can not go into Eagle stance while the Eagle Hunt is on cooldown.
Bear:
- Stance: While attuned to Bear you gain increased damage physical mitigation
- Hunt: You unleash the brutality of the Bear, greatly reducing damage you take while increasing damage dealt with melee weapon attacks. You can not go into Bear stance while the Bear Hunt is on cooldown.
Marks
Marks suffer from the same issue of just feeling like a debuff. I think they need to synergise with Hunts in a much more meaningful way. For example:
Mark of the Tiger/Eagle/Bear: Mark a target, increasing your chance to critically hit against them (Tiger), dealing increased physical penetration (Eagle), dealing bonus damage (Bear). If you kill your marked target or deal a certain amount of damage to the target, you can empower your next Hunt of the Tiger/Eagle/Bear (depending on the type of mark used).
Shortbow
Like other comments, the shortbow feels like a rapid fire machine gun. While I think the shortbow needs to be fast firing to maintain it's identity, I think this needs to be tackled in a different way. A good way to do this would be the bow from Monster Hunter World.
Currently the shortbow works as follows: 'Attack 1' fires once, 'Attack 2' fires two single shots, 'Attack 3' fires 3 single shots. Instead have 'Attack 2' fire two shots at once and have 'Attack 3' fire 3 shots at once. This keeps the same rapid fire aspect of putting arrows down range but loses the robotic aspect of making your arm work overtime.
I hope these criticisms come across as constructive because the ground work for the ranger is superb. Can't wait to see how this archetype evolves along with see how others are released.
1. General Ranger Archetype Discussion - How do you feel about the direction the Ranger archetype is moving in, based on what was shared during the December 2023 Development Update?
Likes:
* Like the direction and presentation style
* Like the fluidity of the combat and level of vfx
Concerns:
* Worried about kiting capabilities and how unfun that can be to play against
2. Ranger Ability Discussion - What do you like, and what concerns do you have about the look and feel of the abilities shared for the Ranger Archetype? As a note, we’re not looking for balance feedback at this time.
Likes:
* Abilities like Thundering Shot and Scatter Shot that have different use cases based on certain conditions (like holding the cast or distance that the ability is casted from)
Concerns:
* Worried about 8+ abilities (out of 35-40 of an archtypes ability count) dedicated to hunts/marks
3. Marks and Hunts - How do you feel about Ranger Marks and Hunts, and the interactions between them? What are your thoughts on this as a Ranger specific archetype mechanic?
Concerns:
* Doesnt feel like a resource unlike other archtypes (courage, momentum, divine power). Think uniformity of archtypes having a unique resource is somewhat important
* Worried about 8+ abilities (out of 35-40 of an archtypes ability count) dedicated to hunts/marks
Feedback: My attempt at a ranger resource
Ranger Resource: Spirit of the Hunt
* Generate 25 stacks every time an non-basic attack is landed
* At 100 stacks, ability to use a Hunt
* Successful completion of a Hunt refunds 50% of the cost (50 stacks)
* Lose (5 + # of active Hunt buffs) stacks every second after the last ability landed
* Lose all Hunt buffs at 0 stacks
Hunts:
Hunt of the Gryphon: (this is a fantasy game why are we hunting tigers)
Do X amount of damage Y seconds following the use of a movement ability
Reward: +Z1 Movement Speed, +Z2 Accuracy
Hunt of the War Beast:
Do X amount of damage using abilities with penetration effects
Reward: +Z1 Health, +Z2 Resistances
Hunt of the Charger:
Do X amount of damage on a CC'ed target
Reward: whatever, you get the idea
The basic loop is mark target -> fulfill marks condition -> get rewarded
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TriforCeMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Hunts/Marks:[/i][/b]
Issue: Some Community Members did not feel like this was a "unique" mechanic like the momentum for fighters, or the elemental stacks from mages.
Idea: Let the rangers have a resource they build up, similar to a rage mechanic. Here are a few different ideas about this concept:
1) Whenever a ranger deals damage to a target, they start to build up a "Familiarity" meter. This can be done based off of damage done, number of hits done, number of crits, possibly the ability to gain it based off of distance to target [If you do a melee ranger, staying close builds familiarity, but if you choose range, distance builds it). Once you reach key milestones in this meter (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%) you can then activate a "spirit animal" to give you a buff. Raven gives you 10%, 15%, 25%, 35% armor penetration based on the threshold in which you saved your familiarity points for.
This could allow you to say stack up a Raven up to 100% and then consume it all to give 35% armor penetration. Then while that is active, you could maybe get to a quick 25% familiarity and active Tiger for a short burst of Armor Penetration + extra crit chance.
Gonna disagree here, love their current setup for marks, to weave the ability in & time it right to maximize its use; I don’t want to build up an ability especially if tabbing between different targets of different armor types; what you suggested would handicap them vs. the freedom they currently have. Please keep the current mark system. More freedom / choice is always better.
Hunts/Marks:[/i][/b]
Issue: Some Community Members did not feel like this was a "unique" mechanic like the momentum for fighters, or the elemental stacks from mages.
Idea: Let the rangers have a resource they build up, similar to a rage mechanic. Here are a few different ideas about this concept:
1) Whenever a ranger deals damage to a target, they start to build up a "Familiarity" meter. This can be done based off of damage done, number of hits done, number of crits, possibly the ability to gain it based off of distance to target [If you do a melee ranger, staying close builds familiarity, but if you choose range, distance builds it). Once you reach key milestones in this meter (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%) you can then activate a "spirit animal" to give you a buff. Raven gives you 10%, 15%, 25%, 35% armor penetration based on the threshold in which you saved your familiarity points for.
This could allow you to say stack up a Raven up to 100% and then consume it all to give 35% armor penetration. Then while that is active, you could maybe get to a quick 25% familiarity and active Tiger for a short burst of Armor Penetration + extra crit chance.
Gonna disagree here, love their current setup for marks to weave the ability it and time it right to maximize its use; I don’t want to build up an ability especially if tabbing between different targets of different armor types; what you suggested would handicap them vs. the freedom they currently have. Please keep the current mark system. More freedom / choice is always better.
I appreciate the feedback! Did you happen to have any thoughts about the "attuning" portion where you can select monster types/terrain types to gain advantages with for yourself/party?
Well was looking at the Elders Scrolls Warden Game Play and also at the Black Desrt Online archer game play and well the particle effects were really good and then went and watched the Ashes of Creation Ranger Update Video seemed to me like Ashes was not on par with ESO and well BDO paritcles effects look nice. The particles effects for BDO are golden (kind of biased to golden particle effects but after a while looks kind fo repetative).
Looks like Ashes of Creation is going for a nature based hunter. >One of the things that youhave to look at first is the role playing value of a class to before determining the all of the abilities. Looks to me that Rangers in AoC are more like the Wardens of ESO. Ranger druid in my opinion. Lets go over the color scheme of the abilities Green looks nature bases. Red for head shot looks fury based and one golden ability.
First of all if you wnat to go Green pariticles effects. the Names of ability should reflect it. Like Snipe Shot
Could be called Natures wrath, or Natures Fury or Nature something or Force of Nature (name of item in LoL). Not Snipe Shot.
Scatter also green could be called Bramble Shot. Ability that shoots out array of thorns. There is a golden ability called rain of death that could be renamed to Pheonixian Fury or something like that. Ashes of Creation has Golden Pheonix as logo so kind of makes sense. So green is nature based, gold is drawing on th power of the pheonix. Think Scatter shot could be changed to a golden colored partical effect matching rain of death and renamed with a name that is a reference to a pheonix.
Next thing I want to mention is if you are going to go with the nature green theme then there should be a particle effect left on the hunter or a particle effect on the hunter during cast time like for snipe and have it kind of linger to show that the ranger is channeling nature based energy. The ESO Warden class does this when the archer casts a spell. Leaves glowing hands on Warden (ESO archer class).
Seen some pretty negative posts about particles effects, but if you are going to keep current ones then one way for people to be more accepting of them is for it to makes sense. In other words you should try to sell it in a sense. Should be part of the class discription plus name of abilities should reflect it.
Now lets talk about what type of damage a hunter does. So Green Nature ablities should do Nature dmg,
Golden Abilities should do Pheonixian power dmg and ranger should also do physical dmg. So what is the difference. Well physical dmg can be mitigated by armour. Armour dmg should not mitigated nature dmg.
Maybe Pheonixian Power does full. Maybe Magic Resistance can mitigate nature dmg? Some system like this that is appropriate for the game. So you have to actually put in game not just pick green cause it is a Ranger or gold cause it looks nice.
Some of the particles looked to present. The barrage particle effect looks like a solid lines more spell like than green arrows blurring throught the air. Think this particle effect needs the most help. But Rapid Fire ability really nice effect on rangers but not a neccesity.
Particle effect for snipe looks alright. you have green and white mixed together.
Particle effect for Air strike looks really decent but the spell description says three projectiles.(which could be removed) I had to watch video at .25 speed to see the three lines that represent the projectiles and leave a trail. Lines need to be little thicker so the get noticed. Plus happens so fast you hardly notice it. So maybe lines could linger a bit after being shot. Maybe the name of the abilit Air Strike Could Be changed to Nature Grasp (name of keystone in League of Legends.
Particle effect for Scatter shot well think solid green is not very pleasing to me personally. But suggest a two tone particle effect. Green and White or some other color. But best solution in my opinion is to make it golden so you could have two Pheonixian abilities. And as already mentioned name of abilities changed to a name that references a pheonix.
Particle effect of Thundering shot. (again think name should be changed to soemthing else like Odins Wrath) Really hard for me to come up with names so using really generic ones sorry. On this one think the curve is to high it makes a semicircle looks like shooting a basket ball shot not coming from a bow. Does not look the natural path of an arrow.
Particle effect for Imbue ammo and color differences look decent.
Particle effect for Piercing shot. Think maybe animation should be called dragon shot or somthing like it but piercing shot is decent name. But really this particle effect needs help. In a very old game called Kings Field there was a spell that shot a long slender serpent like dragon (just head and body) and it wrapped around the target and freezed (dome of ice) and after about three seconds it would kind of extend and squeeze target then break the ice into peices and doing addition dmg this was around 1994 perion were consules were just using polygons. WoW used to have an ability called power shot were toon would shoot golden eagle which would knock back every one in its path. They removed from game. Another thing they removed is glaives thought they were pretty cool but got removed so maye similar effects are options.
Noticed that that are no actuall marks on the target denoting what mark is on them that is reall important, but could make current applied mark Glow on Graphical Unite Interface for the abilities. Not sure if only ranger would see it or ranger and allies. Plus target might want to know that they have been marked. Not sure how well this would go in 100 vs 100 pvp games. But might have option to turn on and off. Pariticle effects for marks looked pretty good but If I remember correctly all green but look good.
Think devs should showcase different color options for particle effects Over the Ability Barrage and Piercing Shot in my opinion need the most help.
Still have bit more to say but as far as particles effects think that is all.
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TriforCeMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited January 19
“I appreciate the feedback! Did you happen to have any thoughts about the "attuning" portion where you can select monster types/terrain types to gain advantages with for yourself/party?”
Missed that part, but instead of ammo types I’d rather just see single cast abilities that sleep, stagger, snare, or bleed on hit instead of 10 shots etc; with these being areas to specialize in via subclasses. The ammo engagement component is neat, but in a PvP setting a single hotkey ability would be much more preferred, especially in mass PvP wars. I’m also extremely partial though to the ranger class from Aion; really hoping they have a hardcore CC spec ranger via subclasses.
Are you referring to hunt augments? They sound like flavor perks; I’m all for more customization.
First up, great livestream.
Here are some of my thoughts.
Scatter Shot
Awesome ability. I like how you can put additional points into passives to change the skill exactly like it fits best to your playstyle. Example:
You want to be a pure AoE ranger; you take the base skill and the multi-scatter shot upgrade to get a 2-charge AoE ability.
or
You want to be a more versatile ranger, so you take the base skill with the concentrated scatter shot upgrade to have an ability that can be AoE or single target depending on your situation. And if you want to go the extra mile, you can take the multi-shot upgrade as well, giving it 2 charges. This takes 3 skill points just for 1 ability, though, and this should, in my opinion, lead to you maybe not being able to take some other skill because of skill point rarity.
In general
You shouldn't have so many skill points that everybody just takes every ability and all upgrades. It should be a choice on where you want to spend your precious skill points to maximize the effect of your build and your skill points because this will allow for every ranger to be unique and different from another ranger and allow people to specialize in certain aspects of the game while others can play the same class but be specialized in another aspect of the game.
Hunt and Mark System
Whoever came up with that system knows what he's doing. Great system I haven't seen implemented in a ranger class before. Just a great idea that further allows one ranger to be different from another ranger. Again, I personally hope different people will take different hunts and marks that fit their personal playstyle and build instead of us having so many skill points that every ranger runs every mark and hunt.
I haven't completely made up my mind about the placement in the skill tree, though.
At the moment, it looks like if you want, for example, to use the snipe skill, you will need to put a skill into Hunt of the Tiger and Mark of the Tiger before you can access the snipe ability. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here, but I probably wouldn't be a huge fan of that. I have to test it in alpha 2 before I can be certain, but I think if someone wants to use the snipe skill but doesn't want to use the tiger hunt and mark, that should be possible without basically wasting two precious skill points that could be used better elsewhere.
I like how there's the option to combine different marks and hunts instead of the same of both being obviously better than mixing. Example
Hunt of the Raven for increased physical pen combined with Mark of the Bear, which reduces their mitigation by 25%, to basically become a walking anti-tank gun ranger.
Imbue Ammo System
Interacts nicely with the Hunt and Mark System. Basically the same concern as with Hunt and Mark; I think you should be able to choose which ammo type you want without being forced to put skill points into other skills that you may not want. Other than that, a great addition to the ranger, which again allows each ranger to be unique and different from another ranger.
Snipe
Like the skill, like the optional upgrade for the skill, and I like that you can change the target while charging the skill in action combat mode. Not much to say here, good ability.
Bear Trap
Great ability, great optional upgrades; nothing to complain about for me. Will have to test in alpha 2 because maybe having 3 charges as well as double damage will be a little bit too strong.
Headshot
I like how you can upgrade this into either an execute or a spammable, depending on what upgrades you choose (or both if you want to spend a lot of skill points). I want to emphasize again that I hope we don't get so many skill points that everybody will take both upgrades because they have enough skill points anyway, so that it actually becomes a choice in playstyle.
Disengage
I think it's super cool that with the omnidirectional upgrade, this can actually be used as a gap-closer, allowing you to effectively play a close-ranged ranger if you build for it properly and that's what you want to do. Giving players options like that is great, I think, even if most people probably won't play a close-range ranger. Just having the option is nice.
Call of the Wild
Good "get out of jail" skill.
Air Strike
I don't think I have to say it, but obviously, this skill is super cool. I like how this and Disengage as well can be used as utility to get to cliffs to set up an ambush potentially. Really cool stuff.
Thundering Shot
I feel like this should be an augmented version of a ranger skill. Not a huge fan of bringing the lightning element into the base ranger archetype. I feel like this should be a basic/nature type skill, and going mage as a second archetype can potentially augment this into being the lightning type it is now.
Raining Death
Great skill.
Vine Field
Also, a great skill with a cool optional upgrade.
Barrage
Cool skill, I like how it interacts with the basic attack combo.
Camouflage Passive
I really like this; I think it gives a lot of flavor and combines well with some of the skills that have more damage while far away.
Lightning Reload
I really like the skill, but I'm again not a huge fan of giving it the lightning element. Keep the lightning element for the mages out there.
Piercing Shot
Great ability; I like how it actually pierces instead of being single target only.
Basic Attacks
I really like how you can expand your basic weapon combo and thus specialize in different weapons. Great idea.
Stats
I rly like how armor pen scales with opponent armor. This way it is actually a tank counter stat and not just something that makes you do true dmg low armor enemys while having almost no effect on a high armor one.
Very nice to see ppl using their brain to the full capacity when creating a game !
Overall im rly happy with what i saw and super hyped for testing stuff out in alpha 2
In my previous i was talking about particles effects and wanted to say somathing about head shot. The particle effect for head shot looks decent, just it is a really prominent particle effect think should have different name like fury strike.
If it were up to me I would make more golden abilities at least three already have one so need two more. Think peircing should , scatter shot. and head shot would be good candidates to change to golden aura. Only need to pick 2 of aforementioned abilities to have a total of three. So Ranger would have nature based spells. Pheonix based spells and physical dmg spells. Plus Ranger could choose which one to empower or upgrade to adopt style of play.
On the ability rain of death I would put the Ashes of Creation logo right on the ground.
Not every time it would be a special ability proc so when ability is cast it has a chance to proc a better version of spell denoted by Ashes of Creation LoGo. Piercing would become small golden pheonix particle effect.
Nature abilities like snipe would give a small heal that is for mostly for role playing purposes. Like 2 percetn heal over 4 seconds. So when you cast nature ability you get small heal denoting that you are in fact channeling nature energy. Really a lifebloom partical effect on the ground could be included.(small wild flowers blooming )
Another thing rangers should go through some type of process to learn how to channel nature dmg and Pheonix power (quest or could be something simple like a trainer endowing you with that abiltiy, Ranger should be engulfed with nature energy)
Now as far as actual game mechanics I only have one suggesstion for right now. will have to go back and read abilities carefully to finish post. The game mechanics I would implement concerns the ability Piercing shot. I would make make so the more targets you hit or have lined up then the more dmg you do. First target would take normal dmg but final target would take additional dmg. Name of this ability could be changed to Pheonixian Power Strike ot just Pheonix Strike.
If you guys wanted to go over the top with particle effects I would go with a Particle effect that Procs. So lets say Piercing shot. lets say it has a certain proc lets say 7 percent chance to do something well if that happens then you get golden Pheonix particle effect instead of normal. This type if things were sometimes something special happens keeps the class fresh.
As far game play goes looks really good to me and as far as rest of the abilities all look pretty good. But will go back and read carefully to see if i missed anything.
There are three mini games Imbuing ammo. Spirits (buffs), and Marks. Think these should be more like a choice of three from a set of 5 to 7 abilities per mini game.
And ranger should have choice through skill tree to empower one of the three mini game.
i think auto attacks should be slower , like the first preview speed for the short bow but even a bit slower with less arrows and gets faster the higher lvl you are but not to the point it was shown on stream .
thundering shot : it makes no sense for an archer to just use thunder element , it can be more than fine as an augment for mage second class however i suggest to change the basic one into a shockwave/sonic arrow , same effect instead of a thunder its just the archer doing an animation to shoot a strong fast very heavy arrow i guess , explosion happens same way as thunder one for long range , lvld up the short range one knocks back the enemy for some distance and 3rd upgrade can be something else , maybe adds shock or whatever effect to enemies hit like the "chilled,burnt..etc mage ones"
the different types of arrows seem too many and too strong with barely any cooldown , i suggest they make them a low percentage per arrow that stacks up until it triggered its effect and this changes with the type of bow for long bow its bigger % but less arrows.
Scattershot is great i hope the aoe cone thing actually gets smaller and not have like just 1 big and one focused one but an actual cone that u can choose the size of.
the marks and hunts are cool and all , i like how u can cast marks during other skills but it kinda seem like its underwhelming for a ranger unique mechanic , unlike the mage passive combo with the elements and its pure mana skills and weapon attack taking the last element that was used or the simpler but pretty good cleric resource that let u insta cast spells , maybe when there is more type of buffs and hunts that are more in detail it might be different , hopefully they get it as good as other classes
In my Previous post I was talking about Nature dmg based ability and Golden Powered abilities (Pheonix Power) ; just as an after thought If the lore of the a pheonnix was like : Orignally this legendary creatures came from the stars then it they would be more like Sun Pheonixs which would be represented by golden abilities. Plus could have abilities names like Nova Strike If it was decided to have two more golden abilities.
I forgot to mention something about disengage. Player should be able to turn character in the air and be able to land in whichever direction he chooses. Works really well with free camera mode. For Example if jump back then I could manually turn my toon in the air and do a 180 landing facing away from my target ready to run if I want. May seem like that would take a lot of skill but after many hours of play becomes kind of easy. Think doing 180s in the air or 360s in the air moves your mouse to the left or right significantly to the point were mouse hits key board, and have to lift mouse and move to center of mouse pad.
This problem can be increasing sensitivey to the functiont that is related to turning your too most of the time this would be Camera Look sensitivity X axis but not Y axis.
If you have x and y axis sensitivity are combined and not done seperately. Then when
the x axis sensitivity will go up which is what you want for 360s or 180) but when it comes to camera look y axis (up and down. we are only looking up and down by slightly over 90. If you want to look straight up it is only a 90 degree camera rotation.
Basically a 4 to 1 ratio 360s vs looking staight up 90. So if x and y sensitivity for camera look are combined then what happesn you can do 360 without having to move your mouse to the right ot left to much, however it becomes difficult to keep camera steady on the horizon. So if you move the camera up by a little bit then you will be looking straight up cause of 4 to 1 ration.
Did another pass on abilities and do have much to say about them as far as game mechanics.
Really Ranger looks really good for Alpha two. As far as game mechanics only had a few suggestions rest of it just particles effects and lore. I want to remphasize that the effort in creating Ranger really shows so huge win for the team working on this class.
Oh I forgot to mention golden particle effect for lets say mark of the pheonix would be really cool.
Here's some feedback that I've consolidated from interested players.
-Players were positive about the Ranger update, considering it a big improvement over previous showcases.
Members noted that the skill variety, including AoE and single-target abilities, long and short-range attacks, traps, and mobility options, was well-appreciated.
-Visual effects, especially for the Snipe ability, are praised as impactful and appealing.
- The mobility and jumping mechanics of the Ranger were well-received, which aligns nicely with the fantasy idea of a Ranger as a nimble and agile ranged class.
-Players expressed enthusiasm about the potential for strategic positioning in combat, utilizing the terrain to gain maximum advantage.
-Some players were worried about the potential imbalance or annoyance of Bear Traps in large-scale PvP scenarios and suggest making them destructible and smaller in size.
- Players thought it would be useful to have distinct windup animations for abilities to enhance skill-based gameplay, counterplay and greater immersion.
- Concerns remain about the potential dominance of ranged/mage classes in combat and the need for effective countermeasures from melee classes.
- Players appreciated the ability to make choices in the talent tree, creating a more personalized and unique character. There is a lot of opportunity here to make meaningful trees with cross-over points that really differentiate players and gameplay.
- A player thought the perceived skill ceiling in combat was low, particularly in comparison to games with more action-oriented combat like BDO and ESO.
- Some players would like more complexity in combat, emphasizing the importance of skill, timing, positioning, and class knowledge.
- A suggestion is made to make the combat animations look more realistic and less "fake," particularly regarding the way the character uses the bow. It's unrealistic to shoot a bow from the hip and actually see the arrow travel meaningfully or have any power to do damage. Pulling a long bow is not easy and isn't common to do so quickly/repetitively.
- Players wondered why the Ranger didn't have a quiver.
- It was suggested to adjust the speed of barrage shots with concern expressed about color choices for abilities.
- Some players felt that the DPS "machine gun" skills took away from immersion; proposals for adjustments to reflect a more natural arrow flight trajectory for a more authentic archer experience.
- Some players found the lack of footprints in the snow was off-putting. Also, other games have incorporated body-impact reactions upon being hit with range weapons that also increases immersion.
- Some players found that the visual effects, while appreciated, gave the impression that the base Ranger as a primary archetype was a magical-based class. Perhaps some of these effects would be better utilized for those Rangers with magical secondary archetypes to provide visual differentiation of class primary/secondary combinations.
- Myself and a few others were a bit disappointed that it seems that the Ranger is entirely dependent on the Bow. Our view of a Ranger from fantasy includes a degree of flexibility and skill with a variety of weapons - Yes, a bow for range, but in close quarters Rangers are often skilled with blades (particularly dual wield), staffs, daggers, and even two-handed swords. It would be preferred if the Ranger had the skills that supported broader gameplay.
Allow falconers to use different types of Falcons intrinsic to their area.
Have a falcon either nesting or flying every 500 yards, or 2 of them 1000 yards with other flying creatures also in the air.
Have the falcons route for a nearby tree before flying into the air. Make them take off like other falcons and act like other falcons; or at least allow the player to make them blend in with skill.
This will keep the falconers from getting one-shotted while surveying the area because their falcon just gave away their locations.
I was super excited for this class before I realized.
Be pretty cool for rnagers, if there were single handed crossbows in the game. So hunter could go shield crossbow or double crossbows. One in each hand. Previously I stated about having sheild bows as cosmetic items but think actual shield bow would be pretty cool.
Comments
First small thing is something some people will roll their eyes at, but yeah, for an archetype like Ranger I really would like a few more skillshots.
Next is the short bow basic attack did seem a tad too fast. Also, the animation for Barrage seemed a bit scuffed because of how fast it fires, the player character's hand animation seems like it can't keep up with the firing.
The main bit of feedback is regarding Hunts and Marks though. Currently, Marks and Hunts feel quite bland and don't seem like it's a Rangers identity. For example, Steven spoke about Fighter and their Momentum mechanic and how the more damage they deal/take, the more powerful they become. That sounds like something that is Fighter-esque. But with Ranger, it just seems like a basic "click button and apply buff to self/debuff to enemy.", if you hadn't told me what archetype it belonged to, I might have said Bard since they're just regular buffs/debuffs.
In League, there's a character called Kindred where you select a target to "Hunt" and when you kill them, you gain power. Why not have something where you mark a target, and once you deal a certain amount of damage or CC them for a certain amount of time or some other metric, you get a buff, and then the mark on that target goes on cooldown so you can't remark the same target over and over but need to "chain" hunts/marks together to stack the hunt buff?
Just a suggestion, I'm not a game designer but the current implementation of Marks/Hunts don't seem like they're a mechanic that defines the Ranger archetype as a whole, they just seem like a regular buff/debuff that any archetype could have.
As a 15+ years dedicated ranger/hunter, I am absolutely pleased with the current direction
That said, I checked back on my older post about "a vision for Ranger" and both the positive and negative points still last.
Highlights & positives:
Disengage
Negatives & feedback:
Utility (ideas/expectations):
Bow wielding & postures:
Animal companions
Thanks for the great update!
Any and all archetypes can utilize combat pets as part of their kit if they wish! But it comes at the cost of personal power as it takes up an item slot! :] Read more here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_pets
* High Mobility (to be able to move freely through difficult terrain, faster moment option)
* High Perception (to be able to track creatures/resources and hidden things, Night Vision)
* Wilderness Attunement (various passive bonus when out in the open, maybe with terrain specialization via talent points, maybe some wild creatures won´t attack the ranger or they could have a lower threat range)
* Some bonus for using a battle pet.
* Alpha Striker (High burst damage potential vs a single target, not so good with AoE)
* Traps
* Various types of arrows (a different arrowhead for different types of creatures)
* Camouflage
* Poison Resistance/Use
The Big Bear Trap I would actually like to retract the part about the bear trap being to big as it turns I forgot about the inner circle and outer circle game mechanic. So if you get hit by trap inner or outer circle then you get stunned but if you get hit the inner circle of a bear trap then get hit with additional effect. Very common game mechanic in League of Legends. So rewerds rangers that are highly accurate and still pretty good for rangers that sometimes have trouble landing traps. So huge win for rangers in my opinion.
Air Strike (mage Dragon strike better name or Pheonix Strike) I really like aerial moves like a ton. Think it is another huge win for rangers. The way it gets targeted not clear to me. Do you just jump and at the apex of the jump that is the pint used to determine the loacation of area of effects? Fun factor on this one is like a 10 out of 10
Call of the Wild This makes the Ranger more slippery harder to close in on. Just when you think you had him, he got away type of thing. another huge win.
As far the marks like hunt fo the bear and hunte of the tiger and hunt of the raven. I actually personally like this style of paly think is does add some roleplaying value. Do not remember from the video but there should be some in game mark on the target even if only ranger and allies can see it that denotes what mark they have. Since classes in Ashes of Creation do not have a riculous amout of abilities then this open up more opportunity for mini games so Imbue ammo and marks are really good. Guess there could be other mini games but this are fine.
Rein of Death looks really good talking about partical effect .
Sorry think I am going to go back and rewatch video to catch game mechanics to finish post. I do have some not so positive things to say but right now just really excited about the class. Plus class not done yet so....Great Work on this one.
Particle effects are rubbish - no snow is churned up, thrown about or disturbed by the explosive particles. The particles are just extra/excessive to a natural scenario which would be far superior. The mark and hunt animations are all the same - a massive lost opportunity to create something exceptional. Furthermore, more marks and hunts are not required - the current amount shown is more than enough.
No ability for targeted players to dodge projectiles. Tab target is overpowered and should not be so accurate - rapid fire looks ridiculous especially since all the projectiles hit whilst the target bounced left and right. Homing arrows are just a stupid idea because amassed Rangers will just be too difficult to stop whilst every shot homes in on the targets. Another ridiculous effect is when rapid fire still operates after a kill but emits no projectiles - it is completely immersion breaking.
I do like how neverwinter has shaped the ranger though.
Love how organic combat looks and appears to feel - the combat cadence looks like absolute perfection. Love the mobility, and multiple global cooldowns. Combat looks like it is very engaging - well done! Can’t wait to see how subclasses play out. Definitely going to be playing a ranger.
I’d love to see a subclass that offers more CC, the snare ammo is great, but I’d like to see a subclass offer much more like stuns, sleep arrow etc.
Here is some feedback I thought of based from those discussed during the office hours.
Hunts/Marks:
Issue: Some Community Members did not feel like this was a "unique" mechanic like the momentum for fighters, or the elemental stacks from mages.
Idea: Let the rangers have a resource they build up, similar to a rage mechanic. Here are a few different ideas about this concept:
1) Whenever a ranger deals damage to a target, they start to build up a "Familiarity" meter. This can be done based off of damage done, number of hits done, number of crits, possibly the ability to gain it based off of distance to target [If you do a melee ranger, staying close builds familiarity, but if you choose range, distance builds it). Once you reach key milestones in this meter (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%) you can then activate a "spirit animal" to give you a buff. Raven gives you 10%, 15%, 25%, 35% armor penetration based on the threshold in which you saved your familiarity points for.
This could allow you to say stack up a Raven up to 100% and then consume it all to give 35% armor penetration. Then while that is active, you could maybe get to a quick 25% familiarity and active Tiger for a short burst of Armor Penetration + extra crit chance.
2) You attune yourself to an animal of your choosing, and based off of that animal of your choosing that determines how you obtain familiarity to the target. IF you go with a high crit chance, maybe you go with Tiger to gain it. Or, if you know you are going against a squishy physical defense build, you activate the stance that gains more familiarity based off of that to get quicker bonuses.
What is a Ranger?
Pathfinder Rangers had interesting concepts where you have favored terrains and monsters. It would be interesting if that was possibly done as well where you can "attune" to a terrain/monster to gain bonuses. You can then use skill tree points to adjust how these work.
Example:
Terrain Options:
Mountains, Deserts, Jungles, Woods, Hills, rivers, ruins, caves
Monster Options:
Arachnids, Humans, Dragons, Goblinoids
Default: you can only attune to one of each initially based off your "Studying" performed on that monster/location. This cooldown could be 6 hours to start (1-day in Vera). The cooldown could be decreased or the number of studies you can be knowledgeable of could increase by skill tree point distribution.
Bonuses: Monsters - You could possibly make it specific to Defense Penetration, Extra Damage, Extra Crit, +% to apply negative status conditions, +% to defenses against the monsters, ability to apply unique debuffs to the monster (instead of normally "bleed" it could be upgraded to "Gaping wound" that does more/extra to the monster and replaces all bleed modifiers).
Terrain: You and your party can move quicker in that terrain. Any natural disasters/traps deal reduced damage. Negative status affects caused by the terrain have shorter durations, reduced affect. Faster regen when "camping" or possibly faster regen while out of combat in general to help reduce the need to camp "like a passive foraging ability". Increase duration of food buffs, or unique food buffs.
I hope to be able to embody the stealth sniper. The ambusher in the trees or hills. Traps laid, hidden away by terrain or skilled camouflage, held breath awaiting my prey. I hope that if not accomplished in the base Archetype of Ranger, then this may see fruition in the "Scout" (Ranger-Rogue) or some other appropriate secondary class selection. I'd like to see this combat maybe more about timing and precise shots and less about the rapid fire machine gun type fighting that the class update seemed to have a lot of.
With the Marks and Hunts being the resource for the Ranger, these abilities need to feel impact and something that the other classes are unable to replicate, while being malleable enough to be affected by augmentations.
Hunts
Currently, you activate you Hunt and you get a buff. That doesn't feel like a class ability, that just feels like a buff any class could have if you changed the name. Hunts need to feel like they have a constant effect on the Ranger and have more innate complexity than regular abilities. I think Hunts should be more like Stances that can be activated for a greater effect, however loose their passive effect once they go on cooldown (like an animal going into a frenzy and needing a rest afterwards). For example:
Tiger:
- Stance: While attuned to Tiger stance you gain increased critical chance
- Hunt: You unleash the ferocity of the Tiger greatly increasing movement speed and attack speed for all weapon attacks. You can not go into Tiger stance while the Tiger Hunt is on cooldown.
Eagle:
- Stance: While attuned to Eagle you gain increased physical penetration
- Hunt: You unleash the wrath of eagle, increasing the maximum range with bows and dealing increased damage to lower health enemies. You can not go into Eagle stance while the Eagle Hunt is on cooldown.
Bear:
- Stance: While attuned to Bear you gain increased damage physical mitigation
- Hunt: You unleash the brutality of the Bear, greatly reducing damage you take while increasing damage dealt with melee weapon attacks. You can not go into Bear stance while the Bear Hunt is on cooldown.
Marks
Marks suffer from the same issue of just feeling like a debuff. I think they need to synergise with Hunts in a much more meaningful way. For example:
Mark of the Tiger/Eagle/Bear: Mark a target, increasing your chance to critically hit against them (Tiger), dealing increased physical penetration (Eagle), dealing bonus damage (Bear). If you kill your marked target or deal a certain amount of damage to the target, you can empower your next Hunt of the Tiger/Eagle/Bear (depending on the type of mark used).
Shortbow
Like other comments, the shortbow feels like a rapid fire machine gun. While I think the shortbow needs to be fast firing to maintain it's identity, I think this needs to be tackled in a different way. A good way to do this would be the bow from Monster Hunter World.
Currently the shortbow works as follows: 'Attack 1' fires once, 'Attack 2' fires two single shots, 'Attack 3' fires 3 single shots. Instead have 'Attack 2' fire two shots at once and have 'Attack 3' fire 3 shots at once. This keeps the same rapid fire aspect of putting arrows down range but loses the robotic aspect of making your arm work overtime.
I hope these criticisms come across as constructive because the ground work for the ranger is superb. Can't wait to see how this archetype evolves along with see how others are released.
Likes:
* Like the direction and presentation style
* Like the fluidity of the combat and level of vfx
Concerns:
* Worried about kiting capabilities and how unfun that can be to play against
2. Ranger Ability Discussion - What do you like, and what concerns do you have about the look and feel of the abilities shared for the Ranger Archetype? As a note, we’re not looking for balance feedback at this time.
Likes:
* Abilities like Thundering Shot and Scatter Shot that have different use cases based on certain conditions (like holding the cast or distance that the ability is casted from)
Concerns:
* Worried about 8+ abilities (out of 35-40 of an archtypes ability count) dedicated to hunts/marks
3. Marks and Hunts - How do you feel about Ranger Marks and Hunts, and the interactions between them? What are your thoughts on this as a Ranger specific archetype mechanic?
Concerns:
* Doesnt feel like a resource unlike other archtypes (courage, momentum, divine power). Think uniformity of archtypes having a unique resource is somewhat important
* Worried about 8+ abilities (out of 35-40 of an archtypes ability count) dedicated to hunts/marks
Feedback: My attempt at a ranger resource
Ranger Resource: Spirit of the Hunt
* Generate 25 stacks every time an non-basic attack is landed
* At 100 stacks, ability to use a Hunt
* Successful completion of a Hunt refunds 50% of the cost (50 stacks)
* Lose (5 + # of active Hunt buffs) stacks every second after the last ability landed
* Lose all Hunt buffs at 0 stacks
Hunts:
Hunt of the Gryphon: (this is a fantasy game why are we hunting tigers)
Do X amount of damage Y seconds following the use of a movement ability
Reward: +Z1 Movement Speed, +Z2 Accuracy
Hunt of the War Beast:
Do X amount of damage using abilities with penetration effects
Reward: +Z1 Health, +Z2 Resistances
Hunt of the Charger:
Do X amount of damage on a CC'ed target
Reward: whatever, you get the idea
The basic loop is mark target -> fulfill marks condition -> get rewarded
Gonna disagree here, love their current setup for marks, to weave the ability in & time it right to maximize its use; I don’t want to build up an ability especially if tabbing between different targets of different armor types; what you suggested would handicap them vs. the freedom they currently have. Please keep the current mark system. More freedom / choice is always better.
I appreciate the feedback! Did you happen to have any thoughts about the "attuning" portion where you can select monster types/terrain types to gain advantages with for yourself/party?
Looks like Ashes of Creation is going for a nature based hunter. >One of the things that youhave to look at first is the role playing value of a class to before determining the all of the abilities. Looks to me that Rangers in AoC are more like the Wardens of ESO. Ranger druid in my opinion. Lets go over the color scheme of the abilities Green looks nature bases. Red for head shot looks fury based and one golden ability.
First of all if you wnat to go Green pariticles effects. the Names of ability should reflect it. Like Snipe Shot
Could be called Natures wrath, or Natures Fury or Nature something or Force of Nature (name of item in LoL). Not Snipe Shot.
Scatter also green could be called Bramble Shot. Ability that shoots out array of thorns. There is a golden ability called rain of death that could be renamed to Pheonixian Fury or something like that. Ashes of Creation has Golden Pheonix as logo so kind of makes sense. So green is nature based, gold is drawing on th power of the pheonix. Think Scatter shot could be changed to a golden colored partical effect matching rain of death and renamed with a name that is a reference to a pheonix.
Next thing I want to mention is if you are going to go with the nature green theme then there should be a particle effect left on the hunter or a particle effect on the hunter during cast time like for snipe and have it kind of linger to show that the ranger is channeling nature based energy. The ESO Warden class does this when the archer casts a spell. Leaves glowing hands on Warden (ESO archer class).
Seen some pretty negative posts about particles effects, but if you are going to keep current ones then one way for people to be more accepting of them is for it to makes sense. In other words you should try to sell it in a sense. Should be part of the class discription plus name of abilities should reflect it.
Now lets talk about what type of damage a hunter does. So Green Nature ablities should do Nature dmg,
Golden Abilities should do Pheonixian power dmg and ranger should also do physical dmg. So what is the difference. Well physical dmg can be mitigated by armour. Armour dmg should not mitigated nature dmg.
Maybe Pheonixian Power does full. Maybe Magic Resistance can mitigate nature dmg? Some system like this that is appropriate for the game. So you have to actually put in game not just pick green cause it is a Ranger or gold cause it looks nice.
Some of the particles looked to present. The barrage particle effect looks like a solid lines more spell like than green arrows blurring throught the air. Think this particle effect needs the most help. But Rapid Fire ability really nice effect on rangers but not a neccesity.
Particle effect for snipe looks alright. you have green and white mixed together.
Particle effect for Air strike looks really decent but the spell description says three projectiles.(which could be removed) I had to watch video at .25 speed to see the three lines that represent the projectiles and leave a trail. Lines need to be little thicker so the get noticed. Plus happens so fast you hardly notice it. So maybe lines could linger a bit after being shot. Maybe the name of the abilit Air Strike Could Be changed to Nature Grasp (name of keystone in League of Legends.
Particle effect for Scatter shot well think solid green is not very pleasing to me personally. But suggest a two tone particle effect. Green and White or some other color. But best solution in my opinion is to make it golden so you could have two Pheonixian abilities. And as already mentioned name of abilities changed to a name that references a pheonix.
Particle effect of Thundering shot. (again think name should be changed to soemthing else like Odins Wrath) Really hard for me to come up with names so using really generic ones sorry. On this one think the curve is to high it makes a semicircle looks like shooting a basket ball shot not coming from a bow. Does not look the natural path of an arrow.
Particle effect for Imbue ammo and color differences look decent.
Particle effect for Piercing shot. Think maybe animation should be called dragon shot or somthing like it but piercing shot is decent name. But really this particle effect needs help. In a very old game called Kings Field there was a spell that shot a long slender serpent like dragon (just head and body) and it wrapped around the target and freezed (dome of ice) and after about three seconds it would kind of extend and squeeze target then break the ice into peices and doing addition dmg this was around 1994 perion were consules were just using polygons. WoW used to have an ability called power shot were toon would shoot golden eagle which would knock back every one in its path. They removed from game. Another thing they removed is glaives thought they were pretty cool but got removed so maye similar effects are options.
Noticed that that are no actuall marks on the target denoting what mark is on them that is reall important, but could make current applied mark Glow on Graphical Unite Interface for the abilities. Not sure if only ranger would see it or ranger and allies. Plus target might want to know that they have been marked. Not sure how well this would go in 100 vs 100 pvp games. But might have option to turn on and off. Pariticle effects for marks looked pretty good but If I remember correctly all green but look good.
Think devs should showcase different color options for particle effects Over the Ability Barrage and Piercing Shot in my opinion need the most help.
Still have bit more to say but as far as particles effects think that is all.
Missed that part, but instead of ammo types I’d rather just see single cast abilities that sleep, stagger, snare, or bleed on hit instead of 10 shots etc; with these being areas to specialize in via subclasses. The ammo engagement component is neat, but in a PvP setting a single hotkey ability would be much more preferred, especially in mass PvP wars. I’m also extremely partial though to the ranger class from Aion; really hoping they have a hardcore CC spec ranger via subclasses.
Are you referring to hunt augments? They sound like flavor perks; I’m all for more customization.
Here are some of my thoughts.
Scatter Shot
Awesome ability. I like how you can put additional points into passives to change the skill exactly like it fits best to your playstyle.
Example:
You want to be a pure AoE ranger; you take the base skill and the multi-scatter shot upgrade to get a 2-charge AoE ability.
or
You want to be a more versatile ranger, so you take the base skill with the concentrated scatter shot upgrade to have an ability that can be AoE or single target depending on your situation. And if you want to go the extra mile, you can take the multi-shot upgrade as well, giving it 2 charges. This takes 3 skill points just for 1 ability, though, and this should, in my opinion, lead to you maybe not being able to take some other skill because of skill point rarity.
In general
You shouldn't have so many skill points that everybody just takes every ability and all upgrades. It should be a choice on where you want to spend your precious skill points to maximize the effect of your build and your skill points because this will allow for every ranger to be unique and different from another ranger and allow people to specialize in certain aspects of the game while others can play the same class but be specialized in another aspect of the game.
Hunt and Mark System
Whoever came up with that system knows what he's doing. Great system I haven't seen implemented in a ranger class before. Just a great idea that further allows one ranger to be different from another ranger. Again, I personally hope different people will take different hunts and marks that fit their personal playstyle and build instead of us having so many skill points that every ranger runs every mark and hunt.
I haven't completely made up my mind about the placement in the skill tree, though.
At the moment, it looks like if you want, for example, to use the snipe skill, you will need to put a skill into Hunt of the Tiger and Mark of the Tiger before you can access the snipe ability. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here, but I probably wouldn't be a huge fan of that. I have to test it in alpha 2 before I can be certain, but I think if someone wants to use the snipe skill but doesn't want to use the tiger hunt and mark, that should be possible without basically wasting two precious skill points that could be used better elsewhere.
I like how there's the option to combine different marks and hunts instead of the same of both being obviously better than mixing.
Example
Hunt of the Raven for increased physical pen combined with Mark of the Bear, which reduces their mitigation by 25%, to basically become a walking anti-tank gun ranger.
Imbue Ammo System
Interacts nicely with the Hunt and Mark System. Basically the same concern as with Hunt and Mark; I think you should be able to choose which ammo type you want without being forced to put skill points into other skills that you may not want. Other than that, a great addition to the ranger, which again allows each ranger to be unique and different from another ranger.
Snipe
Like the skill, like the optional upgrade for the skill, and I like that you can change the target while charging the skill in action combat mode. Not much to say here, good ability.
Bear Trap
Great ability, great optional upgrades; nothing to complain about for me. Will have to test in alpha 2 because maybe having 3 charges as well as double damage will be a little bit too strong.
Headshot
I like how you can upgrade this into either an execute or a spammable, depending on what upgrades you choose (or both if you want to spend a lot of skill points). I want to emphasize again that I hope we don't get so many skill points that everybody will take both upgrades because they have enough skill points anyway, so that it actually becomes a choice in playstyle.
Disengage
I think it's super cool that with the omnidirectional upgrade, this can actually be used as a gap-closer, allowing you to effectively play a close-ranged ranger if you build for it properly and that's what you want to do. Giving players options like that is great, I think, even if most people probably won't play a close-range ranger. Just having the option is nice.
Call of the Wild
Good "get out of jail" skill.
Air Strike
I don't think I have to say it, but obviously, this skill is super cool. I like how this and Disengage as well can be used as utility to get to cliffs to set up an ambush potentially. Really cool stuff.
Thundering Shot
I feel like this should be an augmented version of a ranger skill. Not a huge fan of bringing the lightning element into the base ranger archetype. I feel like this should be a basic/nature type skill, and going mage as a second archetype can potentially augment this into being the lightning type it is now.
Raining Death
Great skill.
Vine Field
Also, a great skill with a cool optional upgrade.
Barrage
Cool skill, I like how it interacts with the basic attack combo.
Camouflage Passive
I really like this; I think it gives a lot of flavor and combines well with some of the skills that have more damage while far away.
Lightning Reload
I really like the skill, but I'm again not a huge fan of giving it the lightning element. Keep the lightning element for the mages out there.
Piercing Shot
Great ability; I like how it actually pierces instead of being single target only.
Basic Attacks
I really like how you can expand your basic weapon combo and thus specialize in different weapons. Great idea.
Stats
I rly like how armor pen scales with opponent armor. This way it is actually a tank counter stat and not just something that makes you do true dmg low armor enemys while having almost no effect on a high armor one.
Very nice to see ppl using their brain to the full capacity when creating a game !
Overall im rly happy with what i saw and super hyped for testing stuff out in alpha 2
If it were up to me I would make more golden abilities at least three already have one so need two more. Think peircing should , scatter shot. and head shot would be good candidates to change to golden aura. Only need to pick 2 of aforementioned abilities to have a total of three. So Ranger would have nature based spells. Pheonix based spells and physical dmg spells. Plus Ranger could choose which one to empower or upgrade to adopt style of play.
On the ability rain of death I would put the Ashes of Creation logo right on the ground.
Not every time it would be a special ability proc so when ability is cast it has a chance to proc a better version of spell denoted by Ashes of Creation LoGo. Piercing would become small golden pheonix particle effect.
Nature abilities like snipe would give a small heal that is for mostly for role playing purposes. Like 2 percetn heal over 4 seconds. So when you cast nature ability you get small heal denoting that you are in fact channeling nature energy. Really a lifebloom partical effect on the ground could be included.(small wild flowers blooming )
Another thing rangers should go through some type of process to learn how to channel nature dmg and Pheonix power (quest or could be something simple like a trainer endowing you with that abiltiy, Ranger should be engulfed with nature energy)
Now as far as actual game mechanics I only have one suggesstion for right now. will have to go back and read abilities carefully to finish post. The game mechanics I would implement concerns the ability Piercing shot. I would make make so the more targets you hit or have lined up then the more dmg you do. First target would take normal dmg but final target would take additional dmg. Name of this ability could be changed to Pheonixian Power Strike ot just Pheonix Strike.
If you guys wanted to go over the top with particle effects I would go with a Particle effect that Procs. So lets say Piercing shot. lets say it has a certain proc lets say 7 percent chance to do something well if that happens then you get golden Pheonix particle effect instead of normal. This type if things were sometimes something special happens keeps the class fresh.
As far game play goes looks really good to me and as far as rest of the abilities all look pretty good. But will go back and read carefully to see if i missed anything.
There are three mini games Imbuing ammo. Spirits (buffs), and Marks. Think these should be more like a choice of three from a set of 5 to 7 abilities per mini game.
And ranger should have choice through skill tree to empower one of the three mini game.
thundering shot : it makes no sense for an archer to just use thunder element , it can be more than fine as an augment for mage second class however i suggest to change the basic one into a shockwave/sonic arrow , same effect instead of a thunder its just the archer doing an animation to shoot a strong fast very heavy arrow i guess , explosion happens same way as thunder one for long range , lvld up the short range one knocks back the enemy for some distance and 3rd upgrade can be something else , maybe adds shock or whatever effect to enemies hit like the "chilled,burnt..etc mage ones"
the different types of arrows seem too many and too strong with barely any cooldown , i suggest they make them a low percentage per arrow that stacks up until it triggered its effect and this changes with the type of bow for long bow its bigger % but less arrows.
Scattershot is great i hope the aoe cone thing actually gets smaller and not have like just 1 big and one focused one but an actual cone that u can choose the size of.
the marks and hunts are cool and all , i like how u can cast marks during other skills but it kinda seem like its underwhelming for a ranger unique mechanic , unlike the mage passive combo with the elements and its pure mana skills and weapon attack taking the last element that was used or the simpler but pretty good cleric resource that let u insta cast spells , maybe when there is more type of buffs and hunts that are more in detail it might be different , hopefully they get it as good as other classes
I forgot to mention something about disengage. Player should be able to turn character in the air and be able to land in whichever direction he chooses. Works really well with free camera mode. For Example if jump back then I could manually turn my toon in the air and do a 180 landing facing away from my target ready to run if I want. May seem like that would take a lot of skill but after many hours of play becomes kind of easy. Think doing 180s in the air or 360s in the air moves your mouse to the left or right significantly to the point were mouse hits key board, and have to lift mouse and move to center of mouse pad.
This problem can be increasing sensitivey to the functiont that is related to turning your too most of the time this would be Camera Look sensitivity X axis but not Y axis.
If you have x and y axis sensitivity are combined and not done seperately. Then when
the x axis sensitivity will go up which is what you want for 360s or 180) but when it comes to camera look y axis (up and down. we are only looking up and down by slightly over 90. If you want to look straight up it is only a 90 degree camera rotation.
Basically a 4 to 1 ratio 360s vs looking staight up 90. So if x and y sensitivity for camera look are combined then what happesn you can do 360 without having to move your mouse to the right ot left to much, however it becomes difficult to keep camera steady on the horizon. So if you move the camera up by a little bit then you will be looking straight up cause of 4 to 1 ration.
Did another pass on abilities and do have much to say about them as far as game mechanics.
Really Ranger looks really good for Alpha two. As far as game mechanics only had a few suggestions rest of it just particles effects and lore. I want to remphasize that the effort in creating Ranger really shows so huge win for the team working on this class.
Oh I forgot to mention golden particle effect for lets say mark of the pheonix would be really cool.
-Players were positive about the Ranger update, considering it a big improvement over previous showcases.
Members noted that the skill variety, including AoE and single-target abilities, long and short-range attacks, traps, and mobility options, was well-appreciated.
-Visual effects, especially for the Snipe ability, are praised as impactful and appealing.
- The mobility and jumping mechanics of the Ranger were well-received, which aligns nicely with the fantasy idea of a Ranger as a nimble and agile ranged class.
-Players expressed enthusiasm about the potential for strategic positioning in combat, utilizing the terrain to gain maximum advantage.
-Some players were worried about the potential imbalance or annoyance of Bear Traps in large-scale PvP scenarios and suggest making them destructible and smaller in size.
- Players thought it would be useful to have distinct windup animations for abilities to enhance skill-based gameplay, counterplay and greater immersion.
- Concerns remain about the potential dominance of ranged/mage classes in combat and the need for effective countermeasures from melee classes.
- Players appreciated the ability to make choices in the talent tree, creating a more personalized and unique character. There is a lot of opportunity here to make meaningful trees with cross-over points that really differentiate players and gameplay.
- A player thought the perceived skill ceiling in combat was low, particularly in comparison to games with more action-oriented combat like BDO and ESO.
- Some players would like more complexity in combat, emphasizing the importance of skill, timing, positioning, and class knowledge.
- A suggestion is made to make the combat animations look more realistic and less "fake," particularly regarding the way the character uses the bow. It's unrealistic to shoot a bow from the hip and actually see the arrow travel meaningfully or have any power to do damage. Pulling a long bow is not easy and isn't common to do so quickly/repetitively.
- Players wondered why the Ranger didn't have a quiver.
- It was suggested to adjust the speed of barrage shots with concern expressed about color choices for abilities.
- Some players felt that the DPS "machine gun" skills took away from immersion; proposals for adjustments to reflect a more natural arrow flight trajectory for a more authentic archer experience.
- Some players found the lack of footprints in the snow was off-putting. Also, other games have incorporated body-impact reactions upon being hit with range weapons that also increases immersion.
- Some players found that the visual effects, while appreciated, gave the impression that the base Ranger as a primary archetype was a magical-based class. Perhaps some of these effects would be better utilized for those Rangers with magical secondary archetypes to provide visual differentiation of class primary/secondary combinations.
- Myself and a few others were a bit disappointed that it seems that the Ranger is entirely dependent on the Bow. Our view of a Ranger from fantasy includes a degree of flexibility and skill with a variety of weapons - Yes, a bow for range, but in close quarters Rangers are often skilled with blades (particularly dual wield), staffs, daggers, and even two-handed swords. It would be preferred if the Ranger had the skills that supported broader gameplay.
Allow falconers to use different types of Falcons intrinsic to their area.
Have a falcon either nesting or flying every 500 yards, or 2 of them 1000 yards with other flying creatures also in the air.
Have the falcons route for a nearby tree before flying into the air. Make them take off like other falcons and act like other falcons; or at least allow the player to make them blend in with skill.
This will keep the falconers from getting one-shotted while surveying the area because their falcon just gave away their locations.
I was super excited for this class before I realized.