Usually the idea behind shortening the time span necessary to reach max level seems to be related to repetitive, non-engaging gameplay with no significance beyond teaching you the core mechanics of the game. Furthermore there even is the possibility of making some of the "low level tasks" much easier on a higher level than they are on a lower level. e.g. Flying around in WoW to farm your mining skill up to max level is substantially faster than running around with your mount, making detours to find hopefully one more deposit to get to the next threshold.
From what I can tell Ashes will not have too many of these "high level benefits". Even higher level character require resources found in lower level zones, zones in general aren't fully isolated from one another where you just won't run into players of a certain level in a specific place and most importantly: things in Ashes take more time. Goods take more time to be gathered and transported, Nodes take time to grow, strong communities with social bonds and trust take time to form and it takes more time to learn about the far more complex systems of Ashes. So really there would be no benefit to rush players through the levels when everything else moves at a much slower pace.
In my opinion there wouldn't be an issue to say it should take around 300 hours to reach max level (That would be 4 months of playing 3 hours 6 days a week) especially since even lower level characters contribute significantly to the growth and maintenance of their Nodes, meaning being slower than others is not bad either.
AoC isn't rushing people through levels since they are going for more traditional time. My issue is people will say at 300 hours or even 500 hours it should be longer. And those same people won't be working and that is what they are basing their desire off.
AoC will have power benefits in regards to levels on top of pvp (ie you don't get your full class till lvl 35, augment system changing how your skill work and increasing their power is tied to your level in their ranger show case you can also see this).
My issue will always be people asking to unreasonable leveling times and expecting content around that which reduces content that could be at max level. (That means creating a lot of content players won't ever experience or if they do they will be overleveled) And then you get the people saying there is nothing to do at max level from a pve perspective the same ones that no lifed the game and wanted a longer leveling experience.
I get it and I agree, there are limits to how long this can be stretched.
One limitation is as you said, finding "a resonable time frame" to reach max level. I'll exclude the 2-hours-per-week casuals here, but I think something around 300 hours is within the frame of reasonable assumption, it can be done by playing 3 hours on Saturday and Sunday (or 2 hours on Fr, Sa & Su). That seems okay for a game that aspires to keep players around for years and it means they can have a continuously changing experience, unlocking more and more new, interesting content and options throughout that year. Might just be me, but that sounds like something I'd be willing to pay 15$ a month (or 1,75$ per hour) for. I don't see any need to slow it down further, the core systems of Ashes are more complex than in other games but learning about them is definitely possible within that example of a year, so stretiching it further no longer benefits the the gameloop IMO.
The second limitation I see on what constitutes a reasonable timeframe to reach max level is the development "problems". The issue with quests for lower level players is that they at least in most games are one-way content. You can make 50 different story archs for a level 10 player, but when it for example takes just 25 of those to get to level 20, the rest of the story archs will not be played by anyone. On the other hand, once someone reaches max level, they will stay there (duh ) which increases the likelihood of them eventually doing a quest aimed at max level players. So if the leveling processes is stretched too far, Intrepid has to produce a ton of content a significant portion of their player won't ever see, which can turn into a big waste of resources and talent on part of the studio. Though I have to admit, here the policies around scaling enemies in story arcs and such is something I am not too familiar with, it would be cool to have low level quests not turn "pointless".
Anyways, I think 280-310 hours is an acceptable time frame to reach max level for the above mentioned reasons.
Usually the idea behind shortening the time span necessary to reach max level seems to be related to repetitive, non-engaging gameplay with no significance beyond teaching you the core mechanics of the game. Furthermore there even is the possibility of making some of the "low level tasks" much easier on a higher level than they are on a lower level. e.g. Flying around in WoW to farm your mining skill up to max level is substantially faster than running around with your mount, making detours to find hopefully one more deposit to get to the next threshold.
From what I can tell Ashes will not have too many of these "high level benefits". Even higher level character require resources found in lower level zones, zones in general aren't fully isolated from one another where you just won't run into players of a certain level in a specific place and most importantly: things in Ashes take more time. Goods take more time to be gathered and transported, Nodes take time to grow, strong communities with social bonds and trust take time to form and it takes more time to learn about the far more complex systems of Ashes. So really there would be no benefit to rush players through the levels when everything else moves at a much slower pace.
In my opinion there wouldn't be an issue to say it should take around 300 hours to reach max level (That would be 4 months of playing 3 hours 6 days a week) especially since even lower level characters contribute significantly to the growth and maintenance of their Nodes, meaning being slower than others is not bad either.
AoC isn't rushing people through levels since they are going for more traditional time. My issue is people will say at 300 hours or even 500 hours it should be longer. And those same people won't be working and that is what they are basing their desire off.
AoC will have power benefits in regards to levels on top of pvp (ie you don't get your full class till lvl 35, augment system changing how your skill work and increasing their power is tied to your level in their ranger show case you can also see this).
My issue will always be people asking to unreasonable leveling times and expecting content around that which reduces content that could be at max level. (That means creating a lot of content players won't ever experience or if they do they will be overleveled) And then you get the people saying there is nothing to do at max level from a pve perspective the same ones that no lifed the game and wanted a longer leveling experience.
I get it and I agree, there are limits to how long this can be stretched.
One limitation is as you said, finding "a resonable time frame" to reach max level. I'll exclude the 2-hours-per-week casuals here, but I think something around 300 hours is within the frame of reasonable assumption, it can be done by playing 3 hours on Saturday and Sunday (or 2 hours on Fr, Sa & Su). That seems okay for a game that aspires to keep players around for years and it means they can have a continuously changing experience, unlocking more and more new, interesting content and options throughout that year. Might just be me, but that sounds like something I'd be willing to pay 15$ a month (or 1,75$ per hour) for. I don't see any need to slow it down further, the core systems of Ashes are more complex than in other games but learning about them is definitely possible within that example of a year, so stretiching it further no longer benefits the the gameloop IMO.
The second limitation I see on what constitutes a reasonable timeframe to reach max level is the development "problems". The issue with quests for lower level players is that they at least in most games are one-way content. You can make 50 different story archs for a level 10 player, but when it for example takes just 25 of those to get to level 20, the rest of the story archs will not be played by anyone. On the other hand, once someone reaches max level, they will stay there (duh ) which increases the likelihood of them eventually doing a quest aimed at max level players. So if the leveling processes is stretched too far, Intrepid has to produce a ton of content a significant portion of their player won't ever see, which can turn into a big waste of resources and talent on part of the studio. Though I have to admit, here the policies around scaling enemies in story arcs and such is something I am not too familiar with, it would be cool to have low level quests not turn "pointless".
Anyways, I think 280-310 hours is an acceptable time frame to reach max level for the above mentioned reasons.
I'm glad you are one of the reasonable people on the forums that gets it lol.
I don't care about max level, as it's a mostly-irrelevant concept in the game type I'm hoping for, so it won't bother me if it's slower.
It won't bother me if it's faster, unless it has a lot of incentives.
Overall, I don't care about it unless the game is one of those games where you get your best gear 'at level cap only' instead of 'in the 5-level bracket before max level'.
If we're talking about 'how long it takes to get into the 45-50 range, I'm okay with that being pretty fast, but my definition of 'pretty fast' is what Intrepid said already, so there's that.
I think my experience with MMO leveling is too similar to the L2 type, with the only outliers being things that let you level to max in about 3 days (or less), so I don't feel like I know what the current 'comfortable middle ground' that people actually desire, is.
Slower, I want it to feel like I have to put in work to max my character and feel like more of an accomplishment then something that can be done quickly
Somewhere around two to three months is fine. 45 days is a bit short, but that's also putting in 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, which is a hell of a grind for people who have jobs.
I think their target is fine. If it is months, they do have to make sure it's interesting along the way.
Doubling that would be too much. If hard core grinding, in that case, takes 3 months, then the average player might take 5 or 6. Not sure what population we'd have left after a year with those rates, and it would be hard to attract new players if they see too large of a mountain in front of them.
Somewhere around two to three months is fine. 45 days is a bit short, but that's also putting in 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, which is a hell of a grind for people who have jobs.
I think their target is fine. If it is months, they do have to make sure it's interesting along the way.
Doubling that would be too much. If hard core grinding, in that case, takes 3 months, then the average player might take 5 or 6. Not sure what population we'd have left after a year with those rates, and it would be hard to attract new players if they see too large of a mountain in front of them.
Somewhere around two to three months is fine. 45 days is a bit short, but that's also putting in 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, which is a hell of a grind for people who have jobs.
I think their target is fine. If it is months, they do have to make sure it's interesting along the way.
Doubling that would be too much. If hard core grinding, in that case, takes 3 months, then the average player might take 5 or 6. Not sure what population we'd have left after a year with those rates, and it would be hard to attract new players if they see too large of a mountain in front of them.
Pretty much what I've been saying that on top of gearing at max level on top of whatever amount of enhancing you will do (which could be months - years) depending on how they do it
Somewhere around two to three months is fine. 45 days is a bit short, but that's also putting in 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, which is a hell of a grind for people who have jobs.
I think their target is fine. If it is months, they do have to make sure it's interesting along the way.
Doubling that would be too much. If hard core grinding, in that case, takes 3 months, then the average player might take 5 or 6. Not sure what population we'd have left after a year with those rates, and it would be hard to attract new players if they see too large of a mountain in front of them.
I agree. However, don't forget that new player who starts 6 months after the launch will play on a server with high level nodes, cheaper gear etc., so I'm pretty sure his progress will be much faster
leveling slower for the sake of leveling slower is pointless and it doesnt make the levels more meaningful. making a big distinction between each level makes them more meaningful, but then people are gonna complain that they have no chance against someone 1 or 2 levels higher, and its not fair cuz that person is farming in a party or plays for longer, no skills, etc, etc
beside i doubt you can level in 200 hours or so, lets say 2 weeks playing 15 hours a day, because you wont even be getting good exp for your level until the nodes grow. i'd say it will most likely be better to just level up 3-6 hours a day and do something else with the rest of your time. maybe work on your artisan professions or work on an alt or do some quests or make money, etc.
i suppose leveling will be fast once level 5-6 nodes start appearing, which will take 6-8 weeks or so? then new players who play all day will hit max level in less days than someone who started on day 1. this is fine, since it helps new players (or even players who rerolled because they didnt like their class) to catch up and be able to play together with everyone else.
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MorashtakMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
From the wiki; "Experience (XP) is gained through a variety of vertical and horizontal progression paths, such as PvP, PvE, Exploration, Gathering/Processing/Crafting, Events/Quests, Grinding mobs.[8][2][9][10]"
The rate at which levels are gained will depend on how much of the content has to be engaged with. Should the world be huge and full of quests, it may be that only 50% of offered quests need to be completed to reach max experience level. But as noted above, how will it affect non-combat skills and reputation? Will raiders care? Should/will they if the best gear is made not found? How fast will an aspirational master crafter level to reach the experience level needed to acquire the rarest materials?
Min/Maxers will take advantage of the Alpha and Betas to map the quickest route to max level - This is a given and Intrepid knows it. Anything done to slow them down will negatively affect the casual players.
Level at a rate that is comfortable and try as best possible to avoid FOMO. Enjoy the journey and don't worry about the destination.
maxing out a character should be at least 75% of the character play time with the remaining 25% time in end game and RP, maxing skills/trades( if the games world and play cycles are good you could see people playing longer or more than one character) . so I think it should be in the higher numbers( 500 hrs+ that's around 3 and half hours a day for 70 days ) here instead of low and as long as the questing and story quests keep up with levelling then it wont matter the amount of time.. you will always get the people who min/max time to level and others that play through the content at a whim.
maxing out a character should be at least 75% of the character play time with the remaining 25% time in end game and RP, maxing skills/trades( if the games world and play cycles are good you could see people playing longer or more than one character) . so I think it should be in the higher numbers( 500 hrs+ that's around 3 and half hours a day for 70 days ) here instead of low and as long as the questing and story quests keep up with levelling then it wont matter the amount of time.. you will always get the people who min/max time to level and others that play through the content at a whim.
so if it takes you 3 months to get to max level (75% of your time) then 1 month in end game (25%) what are you going to do after that with that character?
not everyone wants to play alts. end game should take longer than leveling up, unless leveling is the game.
maxing out a character should be at least 75% of the character play time with the remaining 25% time in end game and RP, maxing skills/trades( if the games world and play cycles are good you could see people playing longer or more than one character) . so I think it should be in the higher numbers( 500 hrs+ that's around 3 and half hours a day for 70 days ) here instead of low and as long as the questing and story quests keep up with levelling then it wont matter the amount of time.. you will always get the people who min/max time to level and others that play through the content at a whim.
so if it takes you 3 months to get to max level (75% of your time) then 1 month in end game (25%) what are you going to do after that with that character?
not everyone wants to play alts. end game should take longer than levelling up, unless levelling is the game.
great question, and one the devs are asking in the top pinned comment in this forum. I liked Liniker's Answer the best it may take 4 months to max out but it would take may more hours to become an expert in certain areas and game knowledge, so like I said in my post if they get the play cycles right sieging, guild wars, boss raids, playing on to get BiS items or max out certain node types on your server could be many months into years. but 4 months of 3 plus hours a day is not really casual and seems in a good places for max level. but just my opinion nothing more.
Slowly watching your level tick upwards isn't what makes progession fun imo. I don't want leveling to take an arbitrarily long amount of time just for the sake of it. Leveling should be fun as a side effect of the gameplay being fun, so leveling should take as long as it needs to based on the gameplay aspects of teaching players mechanics, adventuring out into the world, experimenting with different types of content, etc.
Open world, group oriented PvP, is the attraction for me.
I don't have a problem with 45 days, while averaging 4 hrs per day, as the time required to level a character. This seems like a reasonable balance.
Thing is there's a strong need and motivation to play multiple roles in PvP comps. If the level-up time is too great, then it hinders the ability to level up a number of diverse characters to fulfill multiple roles (esp. healer, hahah). Moreover, longer leveling times tend to discourage trying out different classes, experimenting.
In the end, I don't see Ashes being primarily about the leveling experience.
Too long to level up will hurt other aspects of the game, IMAO.
Casually Serious.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
maxing out a character should be at least 75% of the character play time with the remaining 25% time in end game and RP, maxing skills/trades( if the games world and play cycles are good you could see people playing longer or more than one character) . so I think it should be in the higher numbers( 500 hrs+ that's around 3 and half hours a day for 70 days ) here instead of low and as long as the questing and story quests keep up with levelling then it wont matter the amount of time.. you will always get the people who min/max time to level and others that play through the content at a whim.
so if it takes you 3 months to get to max level (75% of your time) then 1 month in end game (25%) what are you going to do after that with that character?
not everyone wants to play alts. end game should take longer than levelling up, unless levelling is the game.
great question, and one the devs are asking in the top pinned comment in this forum. I liked Liniker's Answer the best it may take 4 months to max out but it would take may more hours to become an expert in certain areas and game knowledge, so like I said in my post if they get the play cycles right sieging, guild wars, boss raids, playing on to get BiS items or max out certain node types on your server could be many months into years. but 4 months of 3 plus hours a day is not really casual and seems in a good places for max level. but just my opinion nothing more.
id prefer if the time at end game was more than the time leveling ;3
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
People need to get it out of their head that increasing leveling time means people don't try to get to max level as fast as they can lol....If im in a competitive guild im trying to get to max level fast that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the content along the way as i play for as many hours as possible a day. The only expereince you are making worse is the casuals since this is a pvp game.
Trying to make a argument I'm not forced to use my lvl 40 weapon for days as a HARCORE player is silly. A casual player will most likely be using their gear for days. On top of the many other points I've already made on this stuff.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
People need to get it out of their head that increasing leveling time means people don't try to get to max level as fast as they can lol....If im in a competitive guild im trying to get to max level fast that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the content along the way as i play for as many hours as possible a day. The only expereince you are making worse is the casuals since this is a pvp game.
Trying to make a argument I'm not forced to use my lvl 40 weapon for days as a HARCORE player is silly. A casual player will most likely be using their gear for days. On top of the many other points I've already made on this stuff.
You're using the PvP argument. But I can use an opposite argument also when talking about PvP. In a PvP game, leveling should be a challenge and PvP should slow down leveling progress.
The time to reach max level according to Steven has certainly taken PvP into account, this means that without PvP, it will be even faster.
Everyone might as well start at max level in this case if the whole game is built around max level characters and there are no stakes around leveling.
If the stakes of the game are somewhere else, we can all start level 60 an fight for ressources, bosses etc but not for xp.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
People need to get it out of their head that increasing leveling time means people don't try to get to max level as fast as they can lol....If im in a competitive guild im trying to get to max level fast that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the content along the way as i play for as many hours as possible a day. The only expereince you are making worse is the casuals since this is a pvp game.
Trying to make a argument I'm not forced to use my lvl 40 weapon for days as a HARCORE player is silly. A casual player will most likely be using their gear for days. On top of the many other points I've already made on this stuff.
You're using the PvP argument. But I can use an opposite argument also when talking about PvP. In a PvP game, leveling should be a challenge and PvP should slow down leveling progress.
The time to reach max level according to Steven has certainly taken PvP into account, this means that without PvP, it will be even faster.
Everyone might as well start at max level in this case if the whole game is built around max level characters and there are no stakes around leveling.
If the stakes of the game are somewhere else, we can all start level 60 an fight for ressources, bosses etc but not for xp.
Where is the quote that it said it took pvp into account? Where is the quote they said they knew how all the pvp systems worked, that it was balanced and so was the corruption element already perfectly balanced for pvp?
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
People need to get it out of their head that increasing leveling time means people don't try to get to max level as fast as they can lol....If im in a competitive guild im trying to get to max level fast that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the content along the way as i play for as many hours as possible a day. The only expereince you are making worse is the casuals since this is a pvp game.
Trying to make a argument I'm not forced to use my lvl 40 weapon for days as a HARCORE player is silly. A casual player will most likely be using their gear for days. On top of the many other points I've already made on this stuff.
Pretty sure this game is stated as being a PVX game. and as you say people will always speed level if its there thing, but saying that it making it worse for a casual to level slower is subjective as someone else was saying having longer to use rare level loot, longer to learning skills and character builds are all very positive experiences. if the content is there for the levels then enjoying it as a casual is fine while rushing it to get to end game is maybe spoiling the game for your self as a hardcore player????
And games that give you levels, story, BiS to fast really struggle to keep retention and people interested you will have never really read quest lines to speed level or pick though the lore... I'm some one who couldn't play more than say 20-25 hrs a week and I still think 400-500hrs is a good spot for max level it really feels like you have accomplished something to max out after investing a good amount of time in something.
what time frame would you considered good for the community as a whole?
Comments
I get it and I agree, there are limits to how long this can be stretched.
One limitation is as you said, finding "a resonable time frame" to reach max level. I'll exclude the 2-hours-per-week casuals here, but I think something around 300 hours is within the frame of reasonable assumption, it can be done by playing 3 hours on Saturday and Sunday (or 2 hours on Fr, Sa & Su). That seems okay for a game that aspires to keep players around for years and it means they can have a continuously changing experience, unlocking more and more new, interesting content and options throughout that year. Might just be me, but that sounds like something I'd be willing to pay 15$ a month (or 1,75$ per hour) for. I don't see any need to slow it down further, the core systems of Ashes are more complex than in other games but learning about them is definitely possible within that example of a year, so stretiching it further no longer benefits the the gameloop IMO.
The second limitation I see on what constitutes a reasonable timeframe to reach max level is the development "problems". The issue with quests for lower level players is that they at least in most games are one-way content. You can make 50 different story archs for a level 10 player, but when it for example takes just 25 of those to get to level 20, the rest of the story archs will not be played by anyone. On the other hand, once someone reaches max level, they will stay there (duh
Anyways, I think 280-310 hours is an acceptable time frame to reach max level for the above mentioned reasons.
I'm glad you are one of the reasonable people on the forums that gets it lol.
It won't bother me if it's faster, unless it has a lot of incentives.
Overall, I don't care about it unless the game is one of those games where you get your best gear 'at level cap only' instead of 'in the 5-level bracket before max level'.
If we're talking about 'how long it takes to get into the 45-50 range, I'm okay with that being pretty fast, but my definition of 'pretty fast' is what Intrepid said already, so there's that.
I think my experience with MMO leveling is too similar to the L2 type, with the only outliers being things that let you level to max in about 3 days (or less), so I don't feel like I know what the current 'comfortable middle ground' that people actually desire, is.
Save us, Jake Song!
I think their target is fine. If it is months, they do have to make sure it's interesting along the way.
Doubling that would be too much. If hard core grinding, in that case, takes 3 months, then the average player might take 5 or 6. Not sure what population we'd have left after a year with those rates, and it would be hard to attract new players if they see too large of a mountain in front of them.
Agreed
Pretty much what I've been saying that on top of gearing at max level on top of whatever amount of enhancing you will do (which could be months - years) depending on how they do it
I agree. However, don't forget that new player who starts 6 months after the launch will play on a server with high level nodes, cheaper gear etc., so I'm pretty sure his progress will be much faster
beside i doubt you can level in 200 hours or so, lets say 2 weeks playing 15 hours a day, because you wont even be getting good exp for your level until the nodes grow. i'd say it will most likely be better to just level up 3-6 hours a day and do something else with the rest of your time. maybe work on your artisan professions or work on an alt or do some quests or make money, etc.
i suppose leveling will be fast once level 5-6 nodes start appearing, which will take 6-8 weeks or so? then new players who play all day will hit max level in less days than someone who started on day 1. this is fine, since it helps new players (or even players who rerolled because they didnt like their class) to catch up and be able to play together with everyone else.
The rate at which levels are gained will depend on how much of the content has to be engaged with. Should the world be huge and full of quests, it may be that only 50% of offered quests need to be completed to reach max experience level. But as noted above, how will it affect non-combat skills and reputation? Will raiders care? Should/will they if the best gear is made not found? How fast will an aspirational master crafter level to reach the experience level needed to acquire the rarest materials?
Min/Maxers will take advantage of the Alpha and Betas to map the quickest route to max level - This is a given and Intrepid knows it. Anything done to slow them down will negatively affect the casual players.
Level at a rate that is comfortable and try as best possible to avoid FOMO. Enjoy the journey and don't worry about the destination.
Naa if im playing 18 hours a day, it should still take a year to get max lvl.
so if it takes you 3 months to get to max level (75% of your time) then 1 month in end game (25%) what are you going to do after that with that character?
not everyone wants to play alts. end game should take longer than leveling up, unless leveling is the game.
great question, and one the devs are asking in the top pinned comment in this forum. I liked Liniker's Answer the best it may take 4 months to max out but it would take may more hours to become an expert in certain areas and game knowledge, so like I said in my post if they get the play cycles right sieging, guild wars, boss raids, playing on to get BiS items or max out certain node types on your server could be many months into years. but 4 months of 3 plus hours a day is not really casual and seems in a good places for max level. but just my opinion nothing more.
I don't have a problem with 45 days, while averaging 4 hrs per day, as the time required to level a character. This seems like a reasonable balance.
Thing is there's a strong need and motivation to play multiple roles in PvP comps. If the level-up time is too great, then it hinders the ability to level up a number of diverse characters to fulfill multiple roles (esp. healer, hahah). Moreover, longer leveling times tend to discourage trying out different classes, experimenting.
In the end, I don't see Ashes being primarily about the leveling experience.
Too long to level up will hurt other aspects of the game, IMAO.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
Levelling is way too fast according to me. As I told in a topic a long time ago (here : https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56157/levelling-and-what-goes-with-it/p1 ) , because of the fast levelling, most of items/gear under max level will become obsolete far too quickly.
So let's tell you get a super weapon level 30, it will cost nothing because any crap weapon max level will be better. Even if the level 30 rare weapon is slightly better in some details, it will not be enough to justify large expanse to buy it.
Also fast levelling means most of people will rush max level instead of inesting in team/pvp activities.
i see what you mean but it will depend on the power difference between level 30 and level 50 gear. it will also depend on how hard it will be to get said level 50 gear or even over enchant a level 30 vs lvl 50 gear ;3
id prefer if the time at end game was more than the time leveling ;3
True but as all MMO there will be certainly weapons high level easy to get. Even if they are crap, they will certainly be better than a low level rare weapon.
I know it's supposition, but it's how it works usually.
If it's the case, then slow levelling would give much more additional value to low level rare items. Because you will use it for long time, pvp with it, farming etc...
With this fast leveling, Im afraid we will have to be max level to enjoy the game because everyone will rush max level.
People need to get it out of their head that increasing leveling time means people don't try to get to max level as fast as they can lol....If im in a competitive guild im trying to get to max level fast that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the content along the way as i play for as many hours as possible a day. The only expereince you are making worse is the casuals since this is a pvp game.
Trying to make a argument I'm not forced to use my lvl 40 weapon for days as a HARCORE player is silly. A casual player will most likely be using their gear for days. On top of the many other points I've already made on this stuff.
You're using the PvP argument. But I can use an opposite argument also when talking about PvP. In a PvP game, leveling should be a challenge and PvP should slow down leveling progress.
The time to reach max level according to Steven has certainly taken PvP into account, this means that without PvP, it will be even faster.
Everyone might as well start at max level in this case if the whole game is built around max level characters and there are no stakes around leveling.
If the stakes of the game are somewhere else, we can all start level 60 an fight for ressources, bosses etc but not for xp.
Where is the quote that it said it took pvp into account? Where is the quote they said they knew how all the pvp systems worked, that it was balanced and so was the corruption element already perfectly balanced for pvp?
You are blowing smoke up my ass.
No clue what you are talking about, i feel you are reading into things too closely with whatever you are seeing the devs saying loosely.
You understand very well and you move away from the subject rather than accepting your contradictions.
You aren't making any sense, sounds like a perfect way to shift the discussion if you don't have a point.
Pretty sure this game is stated as being a PVX game. and as you say people will always speed level if its there thing, but saying that it making it worse for a casual to level slower is subjective as someone else was saying having longer to use rare level loot, longer to learning skills and character builds are all very positive experiences. if the content is there for the levels then enjoying it as a casual is fine while rushing it to get to end game is maybe spoiling the game for your self as a hardcore player????
And games that give you levels, story, BiS to fast really struggle to keep retention and people interested you will have never really read quest lines to speed level or pick though the lore... I'm some one who couldn't play more than say 20-25 hrs a week and I still think 400-500hrs is a good spot for max level it really feels like you have accomplished something to max out after investing a good amount of time in something.
what time frame would you considered good for the community as a whole?