I agree that Intrepid should show good pve or get one of the devs to talk about their current stage of development of pve in-depth. Or if they can't do that, they should get an AI dev to talk about the difficulties of designing a good pve AI.
Your analogy doesn't really work, because it still shows that you completely don't care about non-super-hardcore pve. We've seen bosses, we've seen mobs. But you don't consider them pve, because they're too easy, even though they are the most direct representation of what most people consider pve to be.
Steven will tell you that there are plenty of PvE-centric MMORPGs to play.
For Steven, the fun part of dungeons and raids is the Risk v Reward of those being contested by PvP in the open world.
So... Steven expects us to take it for granted that there will be dungeons and raids with interesting PvE combat. What he wants to focus on is the fun PvP that will occur simultaneously.
What he wants to focus on is the fun PvP that will occur simultaneously.
Then he should just come out and say that pve is the backdrop for all the pvp. Cause he promised hardcore pve with all that "only <10% if players can clear this shit" and "bosses will get more difficult the better you do" stuff. We've seen no indication of those things being in the game or even development so far.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
He should say a lot of things... we agree.
But.. he's focused on pitching for his own playstyle.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
not necessarily. you can pvp for the right to enter an instance to kill a boss, and that boss can be as difficult as IS wants to since there wont be any pvp inside the boss room, just a pve challenge.
another thing to point out. since there isnt instant traveling (maybe aside from family summoning) once you are in a boss area and you beat the other guild trying to kill the boss, its possible that you will have no interference trying to kill the boss, since it would take too long for any enemies to get there, and therefore, you can increase the difficulty of the boss. plus, you can leave a pvp group(s) outside fighting any players that try to come in.
I know there are some very passionate players on both the PvE and PvP sides of the PvX spectrum. Let's remember to keep our debates civil and not personal!
As many of you all know, Ashes of Creation is PvX. Steven's vision of the game in this regard has remained the same since its inception! We believe there will be aspects of the game that both sides of the PvX spectrum will enjoy
Personally, I've enjoyed quite a lot of both PvP and PvE in MMORPGs, but haven't played many true PvX ones. This is why I'm excited for Ashes of Creation! Though, I could understand why some people may want to try it out first, if they're all for PvE or PvP!
What he wants to focus on is the fun PvP that will occur simultaneously.
Then he should just come out and say that pve is the backdrop for all the pvp. Cause he promised hardcore pve with all that "only <10% if players can clear this shit" and "bosses will get more difficult the better you do" stuff. We've seen no indication of those things being in the game or even development so far.
We have not seen the Rogue archetype either, but you believe it will exist, right?
Since they admit they have not perfected basic core features, I am sure end game PVE is not their current focus.
I am saying there isn't any top end PvE content, and that my guild is not considering this as a game to play because of that. But I am also saying "but that's ok, we are not the target market - the game is not for everyone".
Then you have the anti-Noaani mob coming in having to disagree with what I am saying just because I am saying it, which basically results in them having to say "well may be the game IS for PvE players, you don't know." and then making up bullshit like I said the game was a scam.
It really is amusing, and they really are pathetic.
LOL. My friend, I dont need to go any further than this post to help explain the 'anti-Noaani mob'.
You make the argument that you and your guild will not play this game because... i will quote here, "I am saying there isn't any top end PvE content, and that my guild is not considering this as a game to play because of that. But I am also saying "but that's ok, we are not the target market - the game is not for everyone". (yes, I double quoted)
Now, I will post it the way i hear it: "There isn't any top end PvE content in this game which is not even in Alpha 2 yet, the core systems, which are required to make the world even fu*king work are not done yet and the incompetent developers at Intrepid have not taken the time to explain to my Very Fu*king Important guild exactly what the encounters will look like in the their so called top end PVP content. We should know the names of the raid bosses, all the mechanics along with expected parser outputs, and have the spots marked on the map for us already. I mean, seriously, does Steven know who we are? Come on, mannnn"
albarat, mag7spy, lets start the anti noaani forum squad. we will also protect people from pve griefers and carebears
But first you'd have to practice not misquoting each other...
seriously, this is an issue. i apologize for my rash of this. i have figured it out. I am somewhat indecisive and (believe it or not) start a lot of posts which I end up not sending.
The started but not sent quotes never disappear, so when i go to quote the next person, i start at the top, clear the junk and end up misquoting.
wont happen again (I hope).
If Dygz can figure out a way to play the game after launch, we can figure out a way for you to not notice when we misquote each other.
What he wants to focus on is the fun PvP that will occur simultaneously.
Then he should just come out and say that pve is the backdrop for all the pvp. Cause he promised hardcore pve with all that "only <10% if players can clear this shit" and "bosses will get more difficult the better you do" stuff. We've seen no indication of those things being in the game or even development so far.
Indeed he should.
It isnt hard to discuss the notion of PvE content that exists for the sake of PvE rather than PvP.
I get that it isnt content that excites Steven, and as such he may not want to talk about it (his lack of excitement will come through).
If this is the case, just get someone else on to talk about it, or do a write up. I mean, they did a write up to put fires after freehold details, so doing one to put out these fires has a precedent.
A simple yes/no to wanting PvE in the game for the sake of PvE would go a long way - but an outline of how they plan on achieving it if the answer is "yes" would go even further.
Realistically, at this point, nothing past that point would even be appreciated by most of the players I know that want answers in this regard. We dont want details, just intentions.
albarat, mag7spy, lets start the anti noaani forum squad. we will also protect people from pve griefers and carebears
But first you'd have to practice not misquoting each other...
seriously, this is an issue. i apologize for my rash of this. i have figured it out. I am somewhat indecisive and (believe it or not) start a lot of posts which I end up not sending.
The started but not sent quotes never disappear, so when i go to quote the next person, i start at the top, clear the junk and end up misquoting.
wont happen again (I hope).
Yeah I know the feeling. The 'Clear Draft' option is not particularly accessible by comparison, since you have to go out of your way to go do it at a spot where you aren't thinking about that, at least that's how it works for me.
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.
Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing,
Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have.
That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players.
PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect.
At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
not necessarily. you can pvp for the right to enter an instance to kill a boss, and that boss can be as difficult as IS wants to since there wont be any pvp inside the boss room, just a pve challenge.
While you may argue that I wasnt clear enough, this kind of thing is exactly what I have been fighting for since 2018.
Ashes needs its PvP, and top end encounters (and thus rewards) still need to go through that PvP filter, or sphere.
I dont want any top end PvE in Ashes where there hasnt been some sort of fight involved in getting equipment rewards on to player characters.
To me, the notion of fighting to gain entry to an encounter and then having PvE free of PvP is not having that PvE and PvP in conjunction, it is having one then the other.
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.
Thanks. They can be much more destructive that you are giving them credit for... we will have an entry in the guild recruitment part of the forum soon.
You make the argument that you and your guild will not play this game because... i will quote here, "I am saying there isn't any top end PvE content, and that my guild is not considering this as a game to play because of that. But I am also saying "but that's ok, we are not the target market - the game is not for everyone". (yes, I double quoted)
I mean, yeah.
Steven has had like 6 years to talk about it, and other than saying they want PvE contwnt so hard that less than 10% of players can kill it, he hasnt said anything.
Some people have tried to say they they show "PvE" in every livestream, and they showed us the cyclops encounter.
This is literally people saying they think trash mobs and a low level boss amount to top end PvE content.
They do not.
Everything we have seen so far is basically beginner content.
But this is fine, the beginner content is the stuff that will naturally be ready to show first, I dont expect them to show anything else.
Thing is,we arent asking to *see* top end PvE, we are asking for them to talk about it.
The fact they havent talked about it in 6 years tells me that at best they dont consider it important enough to talk about.
So, the situation is that for me and my guild, our preferred sphere of content is something Intrepid deem so unimportant they they har literally only said one thing about it in 6 years, despite frequent discussions about it on their forum.
I dont think it is unreasonable for anyone in that situation to make the assumption that the game in question is not aimed at them, but I do think it unreasonable that anyone should challenge that assumption without statements from said developer.
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.
Thanks. They can be much more destructive that you are giving them credit for... we will have an entry in the guild recruitment part of the forum soon.
Well, I mean, I'm one, so I probably wouldn't promote the enemy guild, but I do genuinely wish you luck anyway.
You seem to be doing a good enough job so far, your constant flawless defense is definitely going to make me back off eventually.
We have not seen the Rogue archetype either, but you believe it will exist, right?
Since they admit they have not perfected basic core features, I am sure end game PVE is not their current focus.
Showing off archetypes is a way more tangible thing than pve AI needs to be. Also, talking about AI wouldn't just mean talking about the highest lvl of difficulty. It would imply behavior of all mobs in the game and the range of their actions.
Just as that small hint at what some mobs can do with the spiders raising their legs to show that they've noticed you. That's an "AI discussion" of sorts. So, obviously, there's already some form of AI implemented in the testing client. Why not just talk a bit more about the plans for its future?
Also, making a powerpoint presentation with a few devs would probably be way easier to set up than their usual "let's get several people together, boot up the client and hope and pray that the client will work as well as we want it to for our goal". People seemed to have loved the PP part of the FH showcase, so I'm sure that talking about pve plans would excite a shitton of people.
Every damn time I watch Asmon's reaction to AoC updates his chat just shits on the game. And Asmon's audience is full of pvers of all kinds, from Noaani's lvls to the most casual dudes like Asmon. Steven's a marketing dude. The best marketing move rn would be to showcase pve plans and announce final date for A2 sales. EZ money
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Seems like we will have more than a handful of dev streams before we get to A2, so plenty of time to do a PvE or Dungeons/Raids "powerpoint".
We were supposed to see Rogue in A1, players were eager for it, but it wasn't ready.
This is the third time we've seen Cleric Active Skills demoed. If Rogue were ready, it would have made way more sense to hype us with Rogue rather than show us Cleric again.
I would hope that Nodes will not be delayed yet again. So... we should be seeing Nodes at the end of Aug.
It's not impossible Rogue could be demoed at the end of September.
We shall see.
With regard to exceptional PvE and WoW - I would have agreed with you prior to Dragonflight.
Dragonflight has solved the content issues I've had with WoW for the previous 12 years.
I was expecting Ashes (Nodes) to do that - especially if it had released before 2020. Or before Dragonflight.
Now I don't need to deal with PvP to get my MMORPG itch scratched.
Perhaps I would feel the same about Dragonflight, but prior experiences don't leave me with enough goodwill to bother finding out.
Ashes can't have superior PvE because Steven's vision of PvX is that all of the PvE is firmly integrated as much as possible with PvP. As much as possible, Steven does not want PvP content or PvE content - he would have 100% PvX content if he could.
And that is more PvP and competition than I am interested in.
If by PVE you mean content entirely divorced from any PVP integration then you may be right, I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't" but it's unlikely by that definition. But even PVE in other games has competition for world firsts, best clear times, who gets the best gear, or even things like preventing people from accessing certain mobs. There's very often competition of some kind or another in activities most would call PVE.
Personally, I'm excited for PVX/PVE which involves other people raising up certain NPC/Organization interests and my having the opportunity to join them in or against the cause. That's PVE (or PVX as you'd probably call it) that sounds superior to being chosen one number one million eight hundred thousand and 2nd doing the same thing all the other numbers did before me (not to mention the "same thing" is typically boring and/or lame in the first place).
Genres that are not MMORPGs, specifically, are going to have different design goals.
And will be designed to scratch different itches.
Baldur's Gate 3 is great for scratching the small group multiplayer online RPG itch.
It is not going to be able to scratch the MMORPG itch.
I think we're just different in this regard. I don't have an MMORPG itch, just other itches which could be, but more often are not, satisfied by MMO's. Hoping this one is an exception.
I think "advantage" is not the correct word.
Other players affecting dynamic change on the world has a lot of appeal.
Meaningful PvP Conflict also has some appeal.
For me, a design that has an obsession with competition and Risk v Reward has negative appeal - and overrides any possible interest in the rest of the game.
Because I am a non-competitive, Casual Challenge carebear.
There are better ways to communicate the point but I think it did its job well enough.
Other players affecting the world is the whole appeal to me. Otherwise, I'd rather just play a single-player game or read a book, either of which is pretty well guaranteed to have a superior story compared with an MMO. And while I think you're with me somewhat on the PVE side, it seems like not so much on the PVP side. Though again, I'm not supportive of systems that allow PVP players to ruin the experience of other players. It should be designed in a way that will inevitably cause some frustrations, but for those frustrations to be the price paid for a more meaningful world and ultimately more fun instead of less. If it's causing more frustration than fun, it's bad and I'd agree it takes the ideas of competition and risk V reward too far. Whether or not that will be the case, it's too early for me to speculate or argue about as there's just not enough information yet.
Yep, different playstyles will have diferent perspectives. And different dealbreakers.
That's OK.
My Bartle Score is: Explorer 87; Socializer 73; Achiever 47; Killer 0
I took the Bartle test just to see and got:
67% Explorer
60% Achiever
53% Socialiser
20% Killer
Not sure I'd agree fully but it's interesting. Feel like I'd switch Achiever and Explorer scores and add more to the Achiever from both Explorer and Socialiser. Also, I'm not confident that test accurately measures much of anything. For instance, I got a low killer score, but that's because I don't like "preying" on weak victims as it so often worded its questions, but I enjoy fighting my peers in honorable fights and conquering enemies (of my guild/world/node, whatever it happens to be), so I'm more PVP oriented than this would indicate, I'm just not a jerk (mostly).
If by PVE you mean content entirely divorced from any PVP integration then you may be right, I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't" but it's unlikely by that definition. But even PVE in other games has competition for world firsts, best clear times, who gets the best gear, or even things like preventing people from accessing certain mobs. There's very often competition of some kind or another in activities most would call PVE.
I'd say that all MMORPGs have options for competition - especially indirect competition - that can be easily ignored. Best clear time is not really something designed by the devs. Who gets the best gear is not inherently competitive. Gamers can make stuff that's not designed to be a competition into some form of competition. Sure.
Personally, I'm excited for PVX/PVE which involves other people raising up certain NPC/Organization interests and my having the opportunity to join them in or against the cause. That's PVE (or PVX as you'd probably call it) that sounds superior to being chosen one number one million eight hundred thousand and 2nd doing the same thing all the other numbers did before me (not to mention the "same thing" is typically boring and/or lame in the first place).
Sure. I don't think anyone is saying that all forms of PvX are bad.
I'm non-competitive, so I don't really care whether I've done the same thing all the other numbers did before me. I can find ways to be unique when I wish to be unique - like having my main character reach max Level wearing only starting rags.
The primary issue with having a static world, rather than a dynamic world is that there's no reason to talk to other players. With a dynamic world, we will be asking other players, "Hey! Now that Metro X has been destroyed, where can I go to get Y?"
I think we're just different in this regard. I don't have an MMORPG itch, just other itches which could be, but more often are not, satisfied by MMO's. Hoping this one is an exception.
Right. I think this is fairly common. Lots of gamers who play MMORPGs don't really care about the RPG part.
They just want to play an MMO with OW-PvP.
while I think you're with me somewhat on the PVE side, it seems like not so much on the PVP side. Though again, I'm not supportive of systems that allow PVP players to ruin the experience of other players. It should be designed in a way that will inevitably cause some frustrations, but for those frustrations to be the price paid for a more meaningful world and ultimately more fun instead of less. If it's causing more frustration than fun, it's bad and I'd agree it takes the ideas of competition and risk V reward too far. Whether or not that will be the case, it's too early for me to speculate or argue about as there's just not enough information yet.
I enjoy PvP sometimes. I am a Casual Challenge player, so I am not going to be obsessed with Risk v Reward and an obsession with Risk v Reward is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me. PvP integrated into every aspect of the game is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me.
There does not have to be an obsession with PvP and Risk v Reward in order to have a dynamic world.
But, if you are closer to the opposite end of the Challenge spectrum - even if closer means you are in the middle - it's not surprising that you would need to test the game and/or acquire more info before you can know how it will feel for you.
67% Explorer
60% Achiever
53% Socialiser
20% Killer
Not sure I'd agree fully but it's interesting. Feel like I'd switch Achiever and Explorer scores and add more to the Achiever from both Explorer and Socialiser. Also, I'm not confident that test accurately measures much of anything. For instance, I got a low killer score, but that's because I don't like "preying" on weak victims as it so often worded its questions, but I enjoy fighting my peers in honorable fights and conquering enemies (of my guild/world/node, whatever it happens to be), so I'm more PVP oriented than this would indicate, I'm just not a jerk (mostly).
Yes. I mean... Killer 0 is not completely accurate for me either, but it's a fairly decent snapshot in terms of relative interests.
It's a 20+ year-old quiz, so... the range of questions do not cover many of the activities or interests available in modern day MMORPGs.
I was going to say that your Achiever score is signifcantly more prominent than mine.
And some of the stuff you use as examples of competition are Achievements.
So... not surprising that you would enjoy PvP and competition more than I do.
And, sure, might be super fun for you to have PvP integrated tightly with PvE.
"Player versus environment (PvE, also known as player versus monster (PvM)) is a term used for both single player and online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, other online role-playing video games and survival games to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies[1]—in contrast to PvP (player versus player).[2] In survival games a large part may be fighting the elements, controlling hunger and thirst, learning to adapt to the environment and exploration.
Usually a PvE mode can be played alone, with human companions or with AI companions. The PvE mode may contain a storyline that is narrated as the player progresses through missions. It may also contain missions that may be done in any order."
"Player versus environment (PvE, also known as player versus monster (PvM)) is a term used for both single player and online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, other online role-playing video games and survival games to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies[1]—in contrast to PvP (player versus player).[2] In survival games a large part may be fighting the elements, controlling hunger and thirst, learning to adapt to the environment and exploration.
Usually a PvE mode can be played alone, with human companions or with AI companions. The PvE mode may contain a storyline that is narrated as the player progresses through missions. It may also contain missions that may be done in any order."
Different understandings about what PVE entails are the prime cause of the major disagreements in this thread. Nice attempt to alleviate that root cause but I doubt it will do much good, people's connotations of PVE are so ingrained that a definition is unlikely to sway them.
I admit, even my own connotations, while more closely resembling the definition than many individuals in this thread, don't fully align and I find myself reluctant to alter them based on a wiki definition. It's a shame we can't come to a common understanding about it to prevent many of the pointless or misguided arguments that have occurred here.
Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,
Wasnt an attack, it was an observation.
I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to show it wasnt an attack.
You may note, however, that like a good loyal puppy, he jumped to your defense above. And since he is a puppy, he also took your lead and completely distorted what was being said.
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For Steven, the fun part of dungeons and raids is the Risk v Reward of those being contested by PvP in the open world.
So... Steven expects us to take it for granted that there will be dungeons and raids with interesting PvE combat. What he wants to focus on is the fun PvP that will occur simultaneously.
But.. he's focused on pitching for his own playstyle.
not necessarily. you can pvp for the right to enter an instance to kill a boss, and that boss can be as difficult as IS wants to since there wont be any pvp inside the boss room, just a pve challenge.
another thing to point out. since there isnt instant traveling (maybe aside from family summoning) once you are in a boss area and you beat the other guild trying to kill the boss, its possible that you will have no interference trying to kill the boss, since it would take too long for any enemies to get there, and therefore, you can increase the difficulty of the boss. plus, you can leave a pvp group(s) outside fighting any players that try to come in.
As many of you all know, Ashes of Creation is PvX. Steven's vision of the game in this regard has remained the same since its inception! We believe there will be aspects of the game that both sides of the PvX spectrum will enjoy
Personally, I've enjoyed quite a lot of both PvP and PvE in MMORPGs, but haven't played many true PvX ones. This is why I'm excited for Ashes of Creation! Though, I could understand why some people may want to try it out first, if they're all for PvE or PvP!
We have not seen the Rogue archetype either, but you believe it will exist, right?
Since they admit they have not perfected basic core features, I am sure end game PVE is not their current focus.
LOL. My friend, I dont need to go any further than this post to help explain the 'anti-Noaani mob'.
You make the argument that you and your guild will not play this game because... i will quote here, "I am saying there isn't any top end PvE content, and that my guild is not considering this as a game to play because of that. But I am also saying "but that's ok, we are not the target market - the game is not for everyone". (yes, I double quoted)
Now, I will post it the way i hear it: "There isn't any top end PvE content in this game which is not even in Alpha 2 yet, the core systems, which are required to make the world even fu*king work are not done yet and the incompetent developers at Intrepid have not taken the time to explain to my Very Fu*king Important guild exactly what the encounters will look like in the their so called top end PVP content. We should know the names of the raid bosses, all the mechanics along with expected parser outputs, and have the spots marked on the map for us already. I mean, seriously, does Steven know who we are? Come on, mannnn"
But first you'd have to practice not misquoting each other...
seriously, this is an issue. i apologize for my rash of this. i have figured it out. I am somewhat indecisive and (believe it or not) start a lot of posts which I end up not sending.
The started but not sent quotes never disappear, so when i go to quote the next person, i start at the top, clear the junk and end up misquoting.
wont happen again (I hope).
If Dygz can figure out a way to play the game after launch, we can figure out a way for you to not notice when we misquote each other.
Indeed he should.
It isnt hard to discuss the notion of PvE content that exists for the sake of PvE rather than PvP.
I get that it isnt content that excites Steven, and as such he may not want to talk about it (his lack of excitement will come through).
If this is the case, just get someone else on to talk about it, or do a write up. I mean, they did a write up to put fires after freehold details, so doing one to put out these fires has a precedent.
A simple yes/no to wanting PvE in the game for the sake of PvE would go a long way - but an outline of how they plan on achieving it if the answer is "yes" would go even further.
Realistically, at this point, nothing past that point would even be appreciated by most of the players I know that want answers in this regard. We dont want details, just intentions.
We could get hats or something... no, TATTOOS!
Yeah I know the feeling. The 'Clear Draft' option is not particularly accessible by comparison, since you have to go out of your way to go do it at a spot where you aren't thinking about that, at least that's how it works for me.
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.
Ashes needs its PvP, and top end encounters (and thus rewards) still need to go through that PvP filter, or sphere.
I dont want any top end PvE in Ashes where there hasnt been some sort of fight involved in getting equipment rewards on to player characters.
To me, the notion of fighting to gain entry to an encounter and then having PvE free of PvP is not having that PvE and PvP in conjunction, it is having one then the other.
Mag cant join without Liniker.
You cant have a puppy without his master.
Thanks. They can be much more destructive that you are giving them credit for... we will have an entry in the guild recruitment part of the forum soon.
I mean, yeah.
Steven has had like 6 years to talk about it, and other than saying they want PvE contwnt so hard that less than 10% of players can kill it, he hasnt said anything.
Some people have tried to say they they show "PvE" in every livestream, and they showed us the cyclops encounter.
This is literally people saying they think trash mobs and a low level boss amount to top end PvE content.
They do not.
Everything we have seen so far is basically beginner content.
But this is fine, the beginner content is the stuff that will naturally be ready to show first, I dont expect them to show anything else.
Thing is,we arent asking to *see* top end PvE, we are asking for them to talk about it.
The fact they havent talked about it in 6 years tells me that at best they dont consider it important enough to talk about.
So, the situation is that for me and my guild, our preferred sphere of content is something Intrepid deem so unimportant they they har literally only said one thing about it in 6 years, despite frequent discussions about it on their forum.
I dont think it is unreasonable for anyone in that situation to make the assumption that the game in question is not aimed at them, but I do think it unreasonable that anyone should challenge that assumption without statements from said developer.
Go for shirts, imo.
Well, I mean, I'm one, so I probably wouldn't promote the enemy guild, but I do genuinely wish you luck anyway.
You seem to be doing a good enough job so far, your constant flawless defense is definitely going to make me back off eventually.
Need for admiration: They crave constant praise, admiration, and attention from others and seek validation for their self-worth.
2023 and this guy is talking about masters over people.
Just as that small hint at what some mobs can do with the spiders raising their legs to show that they've noticed you. That's an "AI discussion" of sorts. So, obviously, there's already some form of AI implemented in the testing client. Why not just talk a bit more about the plans for its future?
Also, making a powerpoint presentation with a few devs would probably be way easier to set up than their usual "let's get several people together, boot up the client and hope and pray that the client will work as well as we want it to for our goal". People seemed to have loved the PP part of the FH showcase, so I'm sure that talking about pve plans would excite a shitton of people.
Every damn time I watch Asmon's reaction to AoC updates his chat just shits on the game. And Asmon's audience is full of pvers of all kinds, from Noaani's lvls to the most casual dudes like Asmon. Steven's a marketing dude. The best marketing move rn would be to showcase pve plans and announce final date for A2 sales. EZ money
We were supposed to see Rogue in A1, players were eager for it, but it wasn't ready.
This is the third time we've seen Cleric Active Skills demoed. If Rogue were ready, it would have made way more sense to hype us with Rogue rather than show us Cleric again.
I would hope that Nodes will not be delayed yet again. So... we should be seeing Nodes at the end of Aug.
It's not impossible Rogue could be demoed at the end of September.
We shall see.
Perhaps I would feel the same about Dragonflight, but prior experiences don't leave me with enough goodwill to bother finding out.
If by PVE you mean content entirely divorced from any PVP integration then you may be right, I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't" but it's unlikely by that definition. But even PVE in other games has competition for world firsts, best clear times, who gets the best gear, or even things like preventing people from accessing certain mobs. There's very often competition of some kind or another in activities most would call PVE.
Personally, I'm excited for PVX/PVE which involves other people raising up certain NPC/Organization interests and my having the opportunity to join them in or against the cause. That's PVE (or PVX as you'd probably call it) that sounds superior to being chosen one number one million eight hundred thousand and 2nd doing the same thing all the other numbers did before me (not to mention the "same thing" is typically boring and/or lame in the first place).
I think we're just different in this regard. I don't have an MMORPG itch, just other itches which could be, but more often are not, satisfied by MMO's. Hoping this one is an exception.
There are better ways to communicate the point but I think it did its job well enough.
Other players affecting the world is the whole appeal to me. Otherwise, I'd rather just play a single-player game or read a book, either of which is pretty well guaranteed to have a superior story compared with an MMO. And while I think you're with me somewhat on the PVE side, it seems like not so much on the PVP side. Though again, I'm not supportive of systems that allow PVP players to ruin the experience of other players. It should be designed in a way that will inevitably cause some frustrations, but for those frustrations to be the price paid for a more meaningful world and ultimately more fun instead of less. If it's causing more frustration than fun, it's bad and I'd agree it takes the ideas of competition and risk V reward too far. Whether or not that will be the case, it's too early for me to speculate or argue about as there's just not enough information yet.
I took the Bartle test just to see and got:
67% Explorer
60% Achiever
53% Socialiser
20% Killer
Not sure I'd agree fully but it's interesting. Feel like I'd switch Achiever and Explorer scores and add more to the Achiever from both Explorer and Socialiser. Also, I'm not confident that test accurately measures much of anything. For instance, I got a low killer score, but that's because I don't like "preying" on weak victims as it so often worded its questions, but I enjoy fighting my peers in honorable fights and conquering enemies (of my guild/world/node, whatever it happens to be), so I'm more PVP oriented than this would indicate, I'm just not a jerk (mostly).
@Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,
I think you'd be surprised to know that screenshots of the stupid shit you say here are often posted on the discord and people have a good laugh lol
I guess they're all puppies?
you just trapped inside your bubble thinking you are so cool with your forum dwelling insults and dumb takes, when the reality is, thats just sad
I'd say that all MMORPGs have options for competition - especially indirect competition - that can be easily ignored. Best clear time is not really something designed by the devs. Who gets the best gear is not inherently competitive. Gamers can make stuff that's not designed to be a competition into some form of competition. Sure.
Sure. I don't think anyone is saying that all forms of PvX are bad.
I'm non-competitive, so I don't really care whether I've done the same thing all the other numbers did before me. I can find ways to be unique when I wish to be unique - like having my main character reach max Level wearing only starting rags.
The primary issue with having a static world, rather than a dynamic world is that there's no reason to talk to other players. With a dynamic world, we will be asking other players, "Hey! Now that Metro X has been destroyed, where can I go to get Y?"
Right. I think this is fairly common. Lots of gamers who play MMORPGs don't really care about the RPG part.
They just want to play an MMO with OW-PvP.
That's an appeal for me, too.
I enjoy PvP sometimes. I am a Casual Challenge player, so I am not going to be obsessed with Risk v Reward and an obsession with Risk v Reward is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me. PvP integrated into every aspect of the game is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me.
There does not have to be an obsession with PvP and Risk v Reward in order to have a dynamic world.
But, if you are closer to the opposite end of the Challenge spectrum - even if closer means you are in the middle - it's not surprising that you would need to test the game and/or acquire more info before you can know how it will feel for you.
Yes. I mean... Killer 0 is not completely accurate for me either, but it's a fairly decent snapshot in terms of relative interests.
It's a 20+ year-old quiz, so... the range of questions do not cover many of the activities or interests available in modern day MMORPGs.
I was going to say that your Achiever score is signifcantly more prominent than mine.
And some of the stuff you use as examples of competition are Achievements.
So... not surprising that you would enjoy PvP and competition more than I do.
And, sure, might be super fun for you to have PvP integrated tightly with PvE.
Oh you silly goose, you're doing the irony thing again. Such a jokester.
Usually a PvE mode can be played alone, with human companions or with AI companions. The PvE mode may contain a storyline that is narrated as the player progresses through missions. It may also contain missions that may be done in any order."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment
Different understandings about what PVE entails are the prime cause of the major disagreements in this thread. Nice attempt to alleviate that root cause but I doubt it will do much good, people's connotations of PVE are so ingrained that a definition is unlikely to sway them.
I admit, even my own connotations, while more closely resembling the definition than many individuals in this thread, don't fully align and I find myself reluctant to alter them based on a wiki definition. It's a shame we can't come to a common understanding about it to prevent many of the pointless or misguided arguments that have occurred here.
Guy is making a slave joke and you are here trying to defend him lmao.
Wasnt an attack, it was an observation.
I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to show it wasnt an attack.
You may note, however, that like a good loyal puppy, he jumped to your defense above. And since he is a puppy, he also took your lead and completely distorted what was being said.