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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Again you are thinking people will be max level in 2 days. We are talking about a 300+ hour leveling process and the fact that players who become so corrupt will end up having lower stats than you. Learn about the game dude because you are making yourself look like you dont know anything about the game.
</blockquote>
You don´t need a max level character to gank a Level 1 character. Two days should get everyone interested in ganking enough time for the hunt!
And this "corruption system" can be tricked, one way or the other. Group gank including killing the naked ones. Hitting players to 1 %, let a mob do the rest etc.
Again you are thinking people will be max level in 2 days. We are talking about a 300+ hour leveling process and the fact that players who become so corrupt will end up having lower stats than you. Learn about the game dude because you are making yourself look like you dont know anything about the game.
</blockquote>
You don´t need a max level character to gank a Level 1 character. Two days should get everyone interested in ganking enough time for the hunt!
And this "corruption system" can be tricked, one way or the other. Group gank including killing the naked ones. Hitting players to 1 %, let a mob do the rest etc.
Groups of high level players with an advance of two days will smash every new Level 1 player in a huge AoE gankfest.
So much fun ….. not
</blockquote>
That's part of my reservation about PVP in general. Early in my MMO days when Shadowbane Launched I didn't get out there day one or whatever if they had a headstart. So a group of noobs went out and started grinding XP and we all noticed we weren't getting money like we thought we were.. and we thought we heard or saw a thief or something failing stealth. Dude was like 20 or 30 levels above us and we confronted him and he was like.. nope wasn't me... then we caught him and he's like LOL you dumb noobs. Stuff like that is an immediate turn off gameplay wise. I know there's no thievery type stuff between PC's in this game, but it is a similar aspect to Ganking Noobs to lewt their pocket change.
If this is working to be an mmo like it was in the good old days, lets just say;
it was, it is and it will forever be dangerous to walk alone.
What happens when the guard are killed? Do they give a refund?
Also this is like paying the mob to make sure they don't rob your store.
gosh you really think people will wait at the spawn and kill you right? you srsrly should not even touch a mmorpg if you think like that, go for a single player game and you will be fine ;)
There will still, of course, be the "line skirters" but Intrepid draws the final line. They will likely ban one account if it keeps 20 from quitting.
I think that by the end of Beta things will be balanced and fair enough for all that want to play the game as it is meant to be played.
The EQNext example is:
The dark elves start killing dryads in order to siphon their Life magic and transmute it into Shadow magic...
[/quote]
To answer your question, yes, it has GvG castle assault with attacks on the other guild buildings, and as for the example of the Elves, certain kinds of martial arts get a bonus if you are "evil", causing the need for players to go out and actively seek open PvP (organized PvP doesn't grant any evil points). At times, I have even been asked politely to let me be killed, or being offered apologies after being killed, because the kill was necessary to the killer. Despite that, the penalty to be killed was minimal (some 10 mins debuf), while the penalty for killing was huge (there's a bounty system that's heavily geared against the killer, plus a punishment system that can result in several hours of forced inactivity ingame and month long debufs).
In short, that system worked as expected, with the game NOT becoming a gankbox, while still giving the casual player the impression that the world was dangerous and it was better not to p**s anyone off, and avoiding the most common routes when possible. As said, I probably got killed six, maybe eight times in a year in open PvP (probably I got attacked 12 to 15 times, with the other times managing to escape or fight back), which means less than once per month. So, it looks like the system worked as expected where it was properly implemented, in my experience.
The EQNext example is:
The dark elves start killing dryads in order to siphon their Life magic and transmute it into Shadow magic...
[/quote]
To answer your question, yes, it has GvG castle assault with attacks on the other guild buildings, and as for the example of the Elves, certain kinds of martial arts get a bonus if you are "evil", causing the need for players to go out and actively seek open PvP (organized PvP doesn't grant any evil points). At times, I have even been asked politely to let me be killed, or being offered apologies after being killed, because the kill was necessary to the killer. Despite that, the penalty to be killed was minimal (some 10 mins debuf), while the penalty for killing was huge (there's a bounty system that's heavily geared against the killer, plus a punishment system that can result in several hours of forced inactivity ingame and month long debufs).
In short, that system worked as expected, with the game NOT becoming a gankbox, while still giving the casual player the impression that the world was dangerous and it was better not to p**s anyone off, and avoiding the most common routes when possible. As said, I probably got killed six, maybe eight times in a year in open PvP (probably I got attacked 12 to 15 times, with the other times managing to escape or fight back), which means less than once per month. So, it looks like the system worked as expected where it was properly implemented, in my experience.
If this is working to be an mmo like it was in the good old days, lets just say
[/quote]
Well, to be honest, there never was a AAA MMORPG where you could get killed at the initial spawnpoint.
So what you´re saying doesn´t make any sense ^^
The EQNext example is:
The dark elves start killing dryads in order to siphon their Life magic and transmute it into Shadow magic...
[/quote]
To answer your question, yes, it has GvG castle assault with attacks on the other guild buildings, and as for the example of the Elves, certain kinds of martial arts get a bonus if you are "evil", causing the need for players to go out and actively seek open PvP (organized PvP doesn't grant any evil points). At times, I have even been asked politely to let me be killed, or being offered apologies after being killed, because the kill was necessary to the killer. Despite that, the penalty to be killed was minimal (some 10 mins debuf), while the penalty for killing was huge (there's a bounty system that's heavily geared against the killer, plus a punishment system that can result in several hours of forced inactivity ingame and month long debufs).
In short, that system worked as expected, with the game NOT becoming a gankbox, while still giving the casual player the impression that the world was dangerous and it was better not to p**s anyone off, and avoiding the most common routes when possible. As said, I probably got killed six, maybe eight times in a year in open PvP (probably I got attacked 12 to 15 times, with the other times managing to escape or fight back), which means less than once per month. So, it looks like the system worked as expected where it was properly implemented, in my experience.
"I guess one thing that is odd to me is that so many people think in terms of PKers and bandits. while my concern is that most of us will have legitimate reasons to want to kill others due to the node v node conflict. Not simply enemy v enemy but because the actions we take will negatively affect rival regions (or even our own regions politically)."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It's not that we think primarily in terms of bandits and PKers. Most all, maybe all of the concerns posted here have been about RPKers and bandits(which are hard to differentiate from RPKers). This seems to be what troubles most everyone that has/had concerns, including YOU, yourself! :)
PVP on a higher scale like caravans, sieges, wars are the one type of PVP that can pretty much be totally avoided if you wanted to. Your Guild Officers might have something to say about that, depending on your guild.
I am not really concerned about PKers who are simply out to grief other people.
I am mostly concerned about attacks from avatars who have legitimate reasons to attack other avatars.
The ramifications of Node v Node conflict - what Steven refers to as "meaningful PvP combat".
SCENARIO 1:
The dark elves build a stronghold in the Serpentspine Mountains. They build a processor plant used to transmute Life magic into Shadow magic. Shadow magic powers abilities like Stealth, along with augmenting gear and spells with the Shadow descriptor.
The dark elves begin to farm dryads in Kithicor Forest in order to siphon their Life magic as a resource for their Shadow processors.
As Life magic is drained from the forest, blight begins to spread among the trees. The Druids and Rangers in Kithicor are aware that if Life magic bcomes too depeleted in the forest, the shackles that bind the dreaded Shadow Demons will break, releasing the monstrosities to terrorize the regions, devouring all life they encounter.
Aniki, a Rogue/Cleric, travels to Kithicor Forest to farm some dryads. The Druid, Asher discovers Aniki and asks her to let the dryads be. Aniki laughs and continues killing the nearby dryads. Asher attacks Aniki, but Aniki doesn’t fight back.
Asher kills Aniki and becomes corrupted.
[quote quote=21689]Because Crafters don’t really fight the environment. PvE Adventures like to fight mobs and NPCs and will also enjoy blowing stuff up.
Crafters will be focused on maximixing their Artisan skills while PvErs wil be focused on maximizing their Adventurer skills.
PvErs just don’t want to fight avatars.[/quote]
[quote quote=21690]<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/the-corruption-system-and-improvements-to-it/page/2/#post-21689" rel="nofollow">Dygz wrote:</a></div>
Because Crafters don’t really fight the environment. PvE Adventures like to fight mobs and NPCs and will also enjoy blowing stuff up.
Crafters will be focused on maximixing their Artisan skills while PvErs wil be focused on maximizing their Adventurer skills.
PvErs just don’t want to fight avatars.
</blockquote>
You are making a couple assumptions:
1) Crafters never have to level their characters in the real world
2) These crafters that you are referring to are specifically Processors and Crafters (I think its safe to say that gatherers will have to go out in the real world) and never have to leave a metropolis.
3) It has already been said that some of the best materials in the game are going to come from Dungeons and Raids soooooo I imagine they can’t just metropolis forever until they die.
4) They need someplace to practice said craft. We really don’t know if that is going to be free or close to free. Who knows how many quests are required to get said space.
[/quote]
[quote quote=21736]
1: Avatars exist in a virtual world, not a real world. By “real world” do you mean wilderness, they never have to leave a town or city?
May also be possible that some adventurers never have to leave the city either. But, I’m expecting crafters to visit other locations for training and to find recipes. 100% of them are not going to be staying in the city. Some will be travelling. So, yes. I assume there will be crafters who travel. And i keep hearing that the thing to do is get an Adventurer escort to protect them from PvP combat.
2: Instead of Crafters, I could say Artisans, if you really need to be that precise. I mean Artisans, but “crafters” is more colloquial. So, the Crafters I speak of could be Gatherers, Processors or Crafters. Some will never travel. Some will travel. The ones i’m referring to are the ones who do travel, whether they feel they need to or whether they simply want to.
Also, we don’t know what kinds of tasks the nodes might give them that would motivate Artisans to travel. I assume there will be some. Enough that some Artisans will leave villages, towns, cities and Metropolises and travel elsewhere.
It will not be the case that 100% of the Artisans never travel. I am certain of that.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
3: Some of the best materials will come from dungeons and raids. Some is not all. Some players may choose to never leave the village, town, city, metropolis. Some may move due to high taxes. Some may move for better real estate. Some may move because the village, town, city, metropolis or node has been destroyed. I’m pretty certain that the world will be interesting and volatile enough that some Artisans will be traveling and it will be impossible that all Artisans stay in the safety of their home neighborhoods. Also, with economic and political intrigue and conflict, I’m not sure that home neighborhoods will always be that safe from attacks by other avatars – even with guards.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
4: We can be quite sure that Artisans will need to craft/process at crafting stations – those crafting stations are not just for show. They are most likely continuations of the crafting stations from EQNext/Landmark. I don’t know whether they will need to quest in order to gain access to their own crafting stations. Seems likely since we had to do that in Landmark. Regardless, I expect some Artisans will be leaving their crafting stations to do other things: trade, train, visit friends, etc. I assume some Artisans will travel.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
5: And I assume that sometimes ther will be Artisans traveling alone or in a group of Artisans that does not include an Adventurer.
But, I dunno what your point is.[/quote]
[quote quote=21785]Wow, Dygz are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Perhaps I am obtuse but not deliberately so.
LexLocke made an assertion that I am making assumptions, but I can't tell if he is listing what he thinks my assumptions are or if the list is a counter reply to what my assumptions are supposed to be.
My assumption is that there will be times when Artisans will want to travel. The corruptions system covers when they travel alone or with other Artisans. The other solution is to have PvP Adventurers escort the Artisans.
The playstyle groups we have interested in playing Ashes of Creation are: Artisans, PvE Adventurers, casual PvP Adventurers and hardcore PvP Adventurers.
I don't think LexLocke accurately presented my assumptions - which is why I'm confused - especially if his list is supposed to reflect my assumptions.
It seems to me that LexLocke and I both assume that some Artisans will travel.
Regardless, it would be helpful to clearly state a relevant conclusion: You assume xxxx, but that is not the case, so that means yyyy.
I don’t understand why Dygz continues to make a distinction from crafters and PvE’ers. We can just drop the whole PvP vs PvE thing while in this thread. We are strictly talking about preventing one player from going on a mass murdering spree against the community that may or may not be under leveled, under geared and under experienced.[/quote]
[quote]Dygz wrote:
Because Crafters don’t really fight the environment. PvE Adventures like to fight mobs and NPCs and will also enjoy blowing stuff up.
Crafters will be focused on maximixing their Artisan skills while PvErs wil be focused on maximizing their Adventurer skills.
PvErs just don’t want to fight avatars.[/quote]
[quote]LexLocke wrote:
You are making a couple assumptions:
1) Crafters never have to level their characters in the real world
2) These crafters that you are referring to are specifically Processors and Crafters (I think its safe to say that gatherers will have to go out in the real world) and never have to leave a metropolis.
3) It has already been said that some of the best materials in the game are going to come from Dungeons and Raids soooooo I imagine they can’t just metropolis forever until they die.
4) They need someplace to practice said craft. We really don’t know if that is going to be free or close to free. Who knows how many quests are required to get said space.[/quote]
[quote]Dygz wrote:
1: Avatars exist in a virtual world, not a real world. By “real world” do you mean wilderness, they never have to leave a town or city?
May also be possible that some adventurers never have to leave the city either. But, I’m expecting crafters to visit other locations for training and to find recipes. 100% of them are not going to be staying in the city. Some will be travelling. So, yes. I assume there will be crafters who travel. And i keep hearing that the thing to do is get an Adventurer escort to protect them from PvP combat.
2: Instead of Crafters, I could say Artisans, if you really need to be that precise. I mean Artisans, but “crafters” is more colloquial. So, the Crafters I speak of could be Gatherers, Processors or Crafters. Some will never travel. Some will travel. The ones i’m referring to are the ones who do travel, whether they feel they need to or whether they simply want to.
Also, we don’t know what kinds of tasks the nodes might give them that would motivate Artisans to travel. I assume there will be some. Enough that some Artisans will leave villages, towns, cities and Metropolises and travel elsewhere.
It will not be the case that 100% of the Artisans never travel. I am certain of that.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
3: Some of the best materials will come from dungeons and raids. Some is not all. Some players may choose to never leave the village, town, city, metropolis. Some may move due to high taxes. Some may move for better real estate. Some may move because the village, town, city, metropolis or node has been destroyed. I’m pretty certain that the world will be interesting and volatile enough that some Artisans will be traveling and it will be impossible that all Artisans stay in the safety of their home neighborhoods. Also, with economic and political intrigue and conflict, I’m not sure that home neighborhoods will always be that safe from attacks by other avatars – even with guards.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
4: We can be quite sure that Artisans will need to craft/process at crafting stations – those crafting stations are not just for show. They are most likely continuations of the crafting stations from EQNext/Landmark. I don’t know whether they will need to quest in order to gain access to their own crafting stations. Seems likely since we had to do that in Landmark. Regardless, I expect some Artisans will be leaving their crafting stations to do other things: trade, train, visit friends, etc. I assume some Artisans will travel.
And I am told that the thing for Artisans to do when they travel is have PvPers escort them to protect them from PvP combat.
5: And I assume that sometimes ther will be Artisans traveling alone or in a group of Artisans that does not include an Adventurer.
But, I dunno what your point is.[/quote]
[quote]Bringslite wrote:
Wow, Dygz are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Perhaps I am obtuse but not deliberately so.
LexLocke made an assertion that I am making assumptions, but I can't tell if he is listing what he thinks my assumptions are or if the list is a counter reply to what my assumptions are supposed to be.
My assumption is that there will be times when Artisans will want to travel. The corruptions system covers when they travel alone or with other Artisans. The other solution is to have PvP Adventurers escort the Artisans.
The playstyle groups we have interested in playing Ashes of Creation are: Artisans, PvE Adventurers, casual PvP Adventurers and hardcore PvP Adventurers.
I don't think LexLocke accurately presented my assumptions - which is why I'm confused - especially if his list is supposed to reflect my assumptions.
It seems to me that LexLocke and I both assume that some Artisans will travel.
Regardless, it would be helpful to clearly state a relevant conclusion: You assume xxxx, but that is not the case, so that means yyyy.
You gotta get your posting together, man. There are pages and pages about your pushing for a PVE only server. You did make it look like your main concern was non consensual PVP. That's the kind of PVP that most all PVP hesitant players have also had concerns about.
That is really the only kind of PVP that can't be avoided. You can move out of the way of caravans. You can cross a border and be away from a siege. You can avoid all that kind of structured PVP. Bandits and RPK can't be avoided.
It's really not easy, in fact it is frustrating, to try and have discussion with someone that writes and then changes direction or repeats things back as if You are the one that posted them. You seriously don't see that? Try going back and reading your posts and the replies (that are more constructive) that you received. See if you can find where you are ignoring answers, changing subjects in the middle of discussions, or replying totally out of context.
Might make it easier to recognize why people are getting frustrated.
The best situation would be to find a way to accommodate on the same servers the PvE Adventurers who don't want to be forced into PvP combat and the casual PvP Adventurers who like PvP combat sometimes, but don't want to be forced into PvP combat when they aren't in the mood.
My main concern is non-consenual PvP combat, yes! ... From PvPers - not from PKers.
I'm mostly concerned about the PvP folk who think they are more altruistic than PKers, but still force PvP combat on players who aren't interested in PvP combat with them.
I am not concerned about sieges and caravans.
I have given my example of concern several times now and that just keeps getting ignored.
Y'all just ignore what I'm actually saying and fabricate something else to argue about.
I talk about a server that just disables player avatars killing other player avatars and y'all come back saying i want to remove all form of PvP from the game. I try to correct that and then you complain that i keep bringing it up.
I post the primary scenario I'm concerned about - PvE Adventurers who are pushed into PvP combat because the PvE content the're pursuing negatively affects players in a rival node and you reply with sieges and caravans and bandits.
Have I complained about sieges and caravans and bandits? No.
I have shared my primary concern under SCENARIO 1 several times. Why don't you address that??
It is you who is being deliberately obtuse; not I.
The dark elves build a stronghold in the Serpentspine Mountains. They build a processor plant used to transmute Life magic into Shadow magic. Shadow magic powers abilities like Stealth, along with augmenting gear and spells with the Shadow descriptor.
The dark elves begin to farm dryads in Kithicor Forest in order to siphon their Life magic as a resource for their Shadow processors.
As Life magic is drained from the forest, blight begins to spread among the trees. The Druids and Rangers in Kithicor are aware that if Life magic bcomes too depeleted in the forest, the shackles that bind the dreaded Shadow Demons will break, releasing the monstrosities to terrorize the regions, devouring all life they encounter.
Aniki, a Rogue/Cleric, travels to Kithicor Forest to farm some dryads. The Druid, Asher discovers Aniki and asks her to let the dryads be. Aniki laughs and continues killing the nearby dryads. Asher attacks Aniki, but Aniki doesn’t fight back.
Asher kills Aniki and becomes corrupted.
"My main concern is non-consenual PvP combat, yes! … From PvPers – not from PKers.
I’m mostly concerned about the PvP folk who think they are more altruistic than PKers, but still force PvP combat on players who aren’t interested in PvP combat with them.
I am not concerned about sieges and caravans."
Bringslite wrote
"You did make it look like your main concern was non consensual PVP. That’s the kind of PVP that most all PVP hesitant players have also had concerns about."
And Bringslite adds....
Its a completely different subject then, at this point. Sometimes you have to take one for the team or lobby for a mechanic that makes an enemy of your Node flag as combatant. At that point though, it is hardly you being forced into non consensual PVP.
It just said it's too early to discuss nuances... but that is not a nuance.
That is actually a core concern.
What happens when a PvE-Only Adventurer who is pursuing PvE objectives that negatively affect another region encounters a hardcore PvP adventurer who needs to stop her? That has nothing to do with lone wolf outlaws. That's day-to-to play.
Could be individuals. Could be groups.
as it stands now, the PvE folk can just not fight back and give the legitimate PvP Adventurers corruption.
That does not seem fair.
That does not seem like a way to encourage both playtyles to play on the same server.
I don't understand how guilds resolve that, so if that is your idea of a viable solution, please explain how that is intended to work in more detail.
[quote]Bringslite wrote:
or………
How does Intrepid plan on limiting how much the corruption system can be abused as a weapon instead of just a deterrent?
Probably a bit early for clear answers on the nuances of systems. I would suggest using guild vs guild mechanics and maybe they need a mechanic that a node can use for declaring “lone wolves” as Node outlaws. Same result as the guild vs guild mechanic.[/quote]
Bringslite wrote:
or………
How does Intrepid plan on limiting how much the corruption system can be abused as a weapon instead of just a deterrent?
Probably a bit early for clear answers on the nuances of systems. I would suggest using guild vs guild mechanics and maybe they need a mechanic that a node can use for declaring “lone wolves” as Node outlaws. Same result as the guild vs guild mechanic.
---------------
Actually, it didn't answer anything.
It just said it's too early to discuss nuances... but that is not a nuance.
That is actually a core concern.
What happens when a PvE-Only Adventurer who is pursuing PvE objectives that negatively affect another region encounters a hardcore PvP adventurer who needs to stop her? That has nothing to do with lone wolf outlaws. That's day-to-to play.
Could be individuals. Could be groups.
as it stands now, the PvE folk can just not fight back and give the legitimate PvP Adventurers corruption.
That does not seem fair.
That does not seem like a way to encourage both playtyles to play on the same server.
I don't understand how guilds resolve that, so if that is your idea of a viable solution, please explain how that is intended to work in more detail.
Probably a bit early for CLEAR ANSWERS on the nuances of systems. Not that it is too early to discuss anything...
And what I wrote after that is a perfectly good remedy.
Listen to yesterdays Twitch. Guilds will be able to declare war against each other which will mark the other guild as combatant. I suggest a similar mechanic for players not in guilds so that they can't escape that kind of response when doing "naughty PVE" stuff. Naughty being relative to whomever is looking at it.
Naughty being relative to whomever is looking at it means that other players can flag anyone they want as a combatant.
Naughty being relative to whomever is looking at it means that other players can flag anyone they want as a combatant.
[/quote]
Daring to try a real quote this time!
That is a problem possibly and a reason to discuss things. Choosing to NOT be in a guild so that you can escape any given Node's idea of "Justice" is also a problem.
I am an old hand at this type of discussion. The game I am playing now has developed a pretty complicated system that covers just about all of this stuff, but it has taken a long time and lots of debate to get there. In this game, a person (past a certain level) who is not in a Company(plz read guild) that is part of a "player city" can't advance past a certain level. This is for two reasons: The game design wants that player involved in the larger world after a certain time and the game does not want you to be really effective as a character unless you can be held accountable for your actions.
That makes rowdy players unable to duck responsibility for what they do. They can get their Guild involved in conflict, their guild could kick them, the city could kick that Guild or other cities could siege and take that whole city away if it is too annoying. Underneath all of this is a reputation system that punishes you for random murder. A multi layered approach and absolutely VERY weakly summarized here by me. :)