Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Please don't force us to be victims of PvPers!

1293032343550

Comments

  • Stabby said:
    I understand and appreciate everyones point of view on PvP. But there's nothing I hate more than logging in with a plan and being killed while working on PVE stuff. I don't want to be a victim anymore! ArcheAge and BDO sucked because I can't play MY way. I want EverQuest 3. I want a game when I can do my thing and not be bothered by anyone. I want anonymity. I want to raid 4 hours every night. I want to blow up contested world bosses without looking over my shoulder to see if some guy is taking my health down to 1% so the boss kills me.

    I want to spend a small fortune on a game that doesn't make me some assholes victim.
    I dont think any of us will have to deal with pk like archage or bdo. This will be like lineage2
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Stabby said:
    Karthos said:
    @Stabby

    I don't have time honestly, If it maters that much to you, do the work, don't be lazy. It's in there somewhere. 
    You have not read nor even understand this thread. So please stop posting in it. Nobody wants to get rid of PvP. Not one person has even suggested it.
    Are you the boss of the forums?

    Trying to tell me what to do.. honestly... lol. Someone cranked the butt-hurt meter up to 11 and ripped the knob off. 

    Does a different opinion really threaten you that much? Might be time to take a break buddy. 
  • What if non-consentual pvp penalties were graded based on proximity to nearest cities?
    • Startup towns affording only a limited area protection (radius) and minor consequence (negative xp)
    • The mid sized cities, a larger area of influence and higher consequence.
    • A Metropolis exerting the largest area of protection (largest radius, in radial graduations of significance) and higher level of consequence (negative xp, and possible item drop) but still graded as a distance away from them.
    No system will cater for pve players in a pvx game completely, but would this not be one way to grade xp area dynamically and provide a variety of experience?




  • Well i always leave games that turn into "i am bored, i am better (well have best stats gear) so i gonne kill for my fun".

    Basic i like to play (and pay), do my quests and spend my hours not being bothered with meaningless pvp. Being in a guild vs guild, being in sieges etc i love to do . It has a purpose.

    Ultima Online (the beginning game of it all) had this open world pvp and this bounty hunter system. It got abused of course. Play as a murderer let the bounty get high enough and let a friend kill you , turn in and collect the bounty. Having multiple characters will give you these oppertunities to use the systems.

    So when the fun versus my spending money is at a certain disbalance i leave.

    AoC caravan system i like! Seems a fun system and a usefull pvp design.

    A pure PvP MMO will not have great numbers of players and will not sustain in the longrun. Shadowbane it was i believe. nice concept, first playeble centaur in a MMO also. But it died ...

    So i like PvP in arena's , sieges, guild vs guild and caravan like things. But not in my PvE quest area's and dungeons. i donot mind PvP dungeons also in a game next to PvE dungeons but they shouldnot be neccessary to visit for an achievement or get ahead ingame. So getting this awesome one fo a kind and best "skin" for whatever as a reward for pvp dungeon is ok for me.

    Just my input in the discussion. I will play AoC and see . try out PvP like i did in Guild Wars 1 and 2. The fun parts lol.

    Cheers

    forgive my bad grammar
  • The game will be safer if you play safer.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    I asssure you it won't be. I have experience in a flagging system identical to this one. The only difference i see is that this one "weakens" you while you have corruption. So if anything it will be less of a gank fest. But really, it works great and pk happens less often than you think
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Again, you aren't factoring in Meaningful Conflict.
    PKing will happen quite a lot. The PvPers will just feel like their reasons for PKing are more legitimate. And, while technically there reasons will be more legitimate, the casual PvPers and PvE adveturers won't be any happier about being forced into PvP.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Ironically,  I prefer PvE. But its very slight - so slight, its insignificantly slight.
    The Devs are making every aspect / activity feel Connected & have Importance
    ( because " that " is what the Concept " End-Game " means )
    And it looks Good - its well thought-out

    Each Concern always has a " double-sided-view ", but the Devs aren't inexperienced in creating content - so whatever happens, it'll be fixed.

    Besides, I'd imagine these concerns of PvP will be settled in Alpha & Beta via endless    " Testing Scenarios " 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    OK. But a lot of the devs are Daybreak devs and that didn't necessarily help with EQNext.
    Meanigful Conflict is an EQNext concept that's never actually been tested.
    But, we will see.
  • The title of this thread is amusing to me. Maybe even a bit ironic, as I often feel "forced" into PVEing. I hate crafting with a passion. While I enjoy the strategy and accomplishment in well-designed dungeons, I've found them much more stressful and toxic than a lot of PVP raids/groups. I couldn't care less about trade or fishing. Yet some or all of these will be "forced" on me in every MMO, when all I really want to do is kill things/people.

    And before everyones gets their panties in a twist, I understand that PVE is never forced on one player by another player, and that's the main complaint in regard to open world PVP. But let's be honest. How much time is a random PK here and there going to inconvenience your enjoyment of the game, vs a PVPer who will need to sludge through weeks or months of PVE to get the point where they can even start their main focus?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about having to PVE...because it's part of what makes an MMO an MMO. I'm just pointing out that there are things that will be implemented in these types of games to cater towards as many players as possible, and there's no way to get around this. Nor should there be. Begging devs to take out certain aspects that others enjoy so that you can enjoy the aspects they put in that *you* enjoy more....is kind of a dick move.

    I don't like getting PKed any more than the next person. Sure, a handful of people will abuse it, the same way people abuse PVE mechanics (gold farming?) and screw up the economy in some games. Removing something completely isn't the way to deal with it.

    Just accept that it's part of MMOs, move on, and focus on the things in the game that you do enjoy.
  • If the game has a fair way of fighting it should not be to bad. Twitched based attacks (depends how fast you pc is and lag) are not that fair. From the videos it looks like combat will be like everquest 2 combat. You click on the target then click on the button to cast the spell. I think it should be a fairer fight like that. I might be wrong though. When its unfair it all happened so quick and then you find yourself dead.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Relwoh said:
    If the game has a fair way of fighting it should not be to bad. Twitched based attacks (depends how fast you pc is and lag) are not that fair. From the videos it looks like combat will be like everquest 2 combat. You click on the target then click on the button to cast the spell. I think it should be a fairer fight like that. I might be wrong though. When its unfair it all happened so quick and then you find yourself dead.
    I don't think tab targetting is any more "fair" than action combat, if that's what you mean. The damage output and gear gap is something that needs to be considered though, for sure. They've said combat in Ashes will be a combination of both types, so we'll see how it goes. The only thing I can compare it to is ESO's, which I think is kind of like that.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Cyn said:
    Relwoh said:
    " If the game has a fair way of fighting it should not be to bad. Twitched based attacks (depends how fast you pc is and lag) are not that fair. From the videos it looks like combat will be like everquest 2 combat. You click on the target then click on the button to cast the spell. I think it should be a fairer fight like that. I might be wrong though. When its unfair it all happened so quick and then you find yourself dead. "
    " I don't think tab targetting is any more "fair" than action combat, if that's what you mean. The damage output and gear gap is something that needs to be considered though, for sure. They've said combat in Ashes will be a combination of both types, so we'll see how it goes. The only thing I can compare it to is ESO's, which I think is kind of like that. "
    I'd always thought Action-Combat would be heavily affected on Lag / Connection to the Server. Because Lag-Switchers such big time ~.~
  • Any skill will be affected by lag/connection to server regardless of if it's tab target or action combat.
  • Cyn said:
    Relwoh said:
    If the game has a fair way of fighting it should not be to bad. Twitched based attacks (depends how fast you pc is and lag) are not that fair. From the videos it looks like combat will be like everquest 2 combat. You click on the target then click on the button to cast the spell. I think it should be a fairer fight like that. I might be wrong though. When its unfair it all happened so quick and then you find yourself dead.
    I don't think tab targetting is any more "fair" than action combat, if that's what you mean. The damage output and gear gap is something that needs to be considered though, for sure. They've said combat in Ashes will be a combination of both types, so we'll see how it goes. The only thing I can compare it to is ESO's, which I think is kind of like that.
    Hiya, Cyn! I'm curious as to how old you are, and I do not mean that in a derogatory manner at all. For you, action combat is as fair as tab-targeting; for me, it's less fair, both because of my age and because, also, Fibromyalgia wreaks havoc on me when it flares up.

    The action combat that is so much fun for younger folk is a bit more ... ummmmm ... difficult, I think, for older folk, and we've seen that a large proportion of the membership, at least on these forums, is definitely 35+. 

    As for a combination of both, I really like that ... so long as their tab targeting doesn't go all wonky, lol. I actually enjoyed GW2s combat, when they first launched; turn your character in a direction and then press your buttons. No need to tab target/select target, though you could certainly do so. I also, very much, do hope we have an evade mechanic -- loved that!

    Ciao!
  • @Isende I'm 28. And I'm not really trying to sell action combat, I just don't see how it's less fair; though I understand what you're saying, and maybe that view will change in a few years. I honestly wouldn't have any problem with Ashes using tab targetting, either. But I do hope the hybrid they're going for is successful because nothing will kill an MMO faster than bad combat.
  • The great thing @Cyn is that many of us here possibly including yourself will be involved in Alpha and Beta testing. This is how we can provide feedback to the devs to make sure the combat system is fun and fair for everyone :)
  • Well yeah, that's the idea. Though I'm also hoping the combat will be pretty smooth and not in need of much change by the time that comes around.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    I'm over 50. I much prefer action combat to EQ/WoW/Pathfinder combat.
    But, I don't have Fibromyalgia.

    MMORPG combat still needs to be slow enough that players have time to devise character skill strategies. In RPGs, characters skills need to trump player skills.
    One of the fundamental differences between MMORPG combat v MMOFPS combat.
  • Why this thread still goes on? It's so simple...

    "Don't force us to be..." *STAB STAB STAB STAB*
    "But...." *STAB STAB STAB*
    "I..." *STAB STAB STAB*

    Ashes will have PvP, deal with it!  B)
  • @Dygz, I agree. I'd also add to that other ways to slow combat and make it more strategic: ability cooldowns, attenuation and resource limits, as well as ensuring defensive augments such as mitigation, cc and mc are viable in various archetypes.
  • Ahhh the age old discussion of pve vs pvp.

    I used to be heavily on the PvE side. However it depends on what kind of game the devs want it to be. So I think it might be a good idea to look at the description of PVP :

    "Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."

    from reading this it seems like there will be

    -
    static PvP zones (does this mean there are also safe zones?)
    -
    flagging system (will have to wait for more specifics on that?)
    -
    control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds.(seems like a pretty hefty chunk of PVP is involved in the overall gameplay)

    So in my opinion, you would have to ask yourself if you dislike this or not? There are enough MMO's that are heavily PVE focused, or might suit your personal taste better.

    PS.
    Lets say you got ganked and killed. Why don't you find some like minded players, and hunt the ganker, or travel together to protect yourself? This kind of interaction is what MMO's are about right? This is how stories are made and friendships formed! And in my opinion this kind of interaction, is what make's MMO's great.
  • Stabby said:
    EDIT - June 4th 2017

    Thread summary up to page 25

    The majority of commenters are in favor of keeping the existing (as announced) corruption system and open world PvP servers. There are a handful of people that believe adjustments need to be made to the corruption system or it will be a gank fest and be a large source of potential grief. In the minority are people (myself included) that believe the game should launch with both consensual and non-consensual combat servers (both PvP and PvE servers).

    Up of page 25 there are no Dev comments.

    I hope that saves you a lot of reading.
    I think that people following this game will follow this pattern. I liked this rule set in Linage and it was a fair system. Letting you PvE with low risk of getting attacked. Letting you attack anywhere at a cost if you needed to, to deal with twits. Also rewarding people for engaging and joining in. 

    This system also lets PvEers join this game and do their thing and gives them the option to join PvP when they feel like it. Over a forced FFA PvP that would just drive away the hard core PvEer/Crafters. We need them to make this game work, to give us something to fight for. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Zartas said:
    Lets say you got ganked and killed. Why don't you find some like minded players, and hunt the ganker, or travel together to protect yourself? This kind of interaction is what MMO's are about right? This is how stories are made and friendships formed! And in my opinion this kind of interaction, is what make's MMO's great.
    Because I'm not motivated by revenge.
    Getting other people to engage in PvP combat for you is not a rational solution for not wanting to be involved in PvP combat. it just seems that way to people who love PvP combat because that provides more opportunities for PvP combat for them.

    A whole bunch of ways to make stories without PvP combat (player characters killing other player characters.
    Of course, people who love PvP combat are going to think that PvP combat is what makes MMOs great.
    (Although, I agree that's what makes MMOFPSs great - PvP combat has nothing to do with what makes MMORPGs great for me. Though Meaningful Conflict will be what makes Ashes great, regardless.)
  • Dygz said:
    Zartas said:
    Lets say you got ganked and killed. Why don't you find some like minded players, and hunt the ganker, or travel together to protect yourself? This kind of interaction is what MMO's are about right? This is how stories are made and friendships formed! And in my opinion this kind of interaction, is what make's MMO's great.
    Because I'm not motivated by revenge.
    Getting other people to engage in PvP combat for you is not a rational solution for not wanting to be involved in PvP combat. it just seems that way to people who love PvP combat because that provides more opportunities for PvP combat for them.

    A whole bunch of ways to make stories without PvP combat (player characters killing other player characters.
    Of course, people who love PvP combat are going to think that PvP combat is what makes MMOs great.
    (Although, I agree that's what makes MMOFPSs great - PvP combat has nothing to do with what makes MMORPGs great for me. Though Meaningful Conflict will be waht makes Ashes great, regardless.)


    I can assure you, this system was used in the game Linage. Getting ganked was rare. Sure there will always be the chance you will get attacked but as long as you stay out of contested zones you will be fine. Most guilds in this type of flagging system have people who Paladin PvEers as they are loved and needed. Saying in guild "We have gankers in X zone" Will invoke a action from the community. You need not worry about making a PvP team to be safe. 
  • There won't need to be revenge. As soon as players find out there is a "red" character outside of *insert town name here* they will be out there on their own hunting them down
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    @Dygz we'll have to agree to disagree here. Both are semantics based on personal bias at this point. We have different definitions for what is important.

    So I think the question stays after reading, the current available information on the game, is it your kind of thing? and would you be willing to put up with the current description of pvp? 

    Either it is your cup of tea, or not and you move to look for something else. Or alternatively you can try to change the direction.

    if your decision is the latter one, then I have a personal question : why would you try to change the game to fit your personal preferences? When there are already so many PVE focused mmo's? 

    Edit :
    in addition you don't have to make make hunting squad, you could just find some people to group with, strength in numbers. I'm sure there will be people guarding other people for free or for a fee. And I bet there way more things that would help you with the pvp that can be achieved by simple player interaction.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Zartas said:
    @Dygz we'll have to agree to disagree here. Both are semantics based on personal bias at this point. We have different definitions for what is important.

    So I think the question stays after reading, the current available information on the game, is your kind of thing? and would you be willing to put up with the current description of pvp? 

    Either it is your cup of tea, or not and you move to look for something else. Or alternatively you can try to change the direction.

    if your decision is the latter one, then I have a personal question : why would you try to change the game to fit your personnel preferences? When there are already so many PVE focused mmo's? 
    Which are semantics?
    Meaningful Conflict does not have to be solved by players killing other players.

    But, yes, it should be obvious that people with different playstyles will have different views of what's important.
    Which is why having separate servers for those playstyles is nice.

    The reason to have the discussion is because if we're going to all be stuck on the same servers we should try to figure out how we, as players, are all going to get along without causing people to rage. 

    I think there are hole's in Steven's vision... due to his biases.
    For instance, Steven thinks that corruption is a major deterrent to ganking because he doesn't play alts.
    But, I play alts. If I wanted to gank people, gaining corruption and being hunted by bounty hunters would a fun part of my RP. I'd be having fun checking to see how high my corruption could get before I'm killed - because corruption would not be affecting my main character.
    And that's just one example.

    Lots of people say they don't want designated server types like, PvE and RP, because they don't want to split the playerbase (even though having multiple servers already splits the playerbase), but I think the playerbase willbe split in any case because lots of PvE adventures and casual PvPers simply won't play.
    Which will be fine if Intrepid can meet the numbers they hope to meet.

    Meanwhile, it doesn't hurt to have a discussion about our concerns.

    Also, keep in mind that the devs don't want Ashes to be "PvP-centric".

    RE: edit
    I find it highly unlikely that a group of PvPers are going to be willing to act as my entourage when I tell them that even though I'm a Cleric, I won't be healing them if we get attacked by other player characters because I only participate in fights against mobs and NPCs.

  • I've played PvP on a PvE server all my MMO'ing life and I've never been tempted to join a designated PvP server for various reasons. However, the dynamism that Intrepid talk about when designing their gameplay makes me think they'll look after PvE orientated and PvP orientated players with this game, and therefore I'm quite excited to see what they make of the world. The point here is to deviate from the beaten path and create a world so new that it breathes life into this genre.

    For those that do want designated servers or else, as @Dygz has said, to be fair, since the forum's inception, there are other games out there for you.   

  • As far as saying you want a pure PvE server, that would be one odd server as it would bypass how the core game is designed. I'm not sure why anyone would want to play a watered down copy of the game. 
Sign In or Register to comment.