[Information] World PvP

ArchivedUser

Belewyn always be the way )) Just look at other Player not only me warried https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/93280/#Comment_93280 This is an example how no one will be flag in hope that no one will be PK other

ArchivedUser

J4y said:

Belewyn always be the way )) Just look at other Player not only me warried https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/93280/#Comment_93280 This is an example how no one will be flag in hope that no one will be PK other

I am not sure I understand the response. I am currently reviewing this thread still for any additional Moderation needs.

ArchivedUser

Belewyn said:

J4y said:

Belewyn always be the way )) Just look at other Player not only me warried https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/93280/#Comment_93280 This is an example how no one will be flag in hope that no one will be PK other

I am not sure I understand the response. I am currently reviewing this thread still for any additional Moderation needs.

I hope my coment is ok for now.

ArchivedUser

I can certainly see you're passionate about it, @Eleanc. 

I don't think the game will be as carebear as people fear, but I do get the idea it will be a situation where one individual, regardless of how good they might be at pvp, is unable to confront all problems alone.

Many of the issues described above will have to be tackled with teamwork.

I expect you will even see 'mercenary guilds'... that is entire guilds who fund themselves by providing the kind of services an individual needs, when dealing with troll/grief behavior. 

Granted, such a mercenary guild will suffer the same penalties in combat as anyone, but i expect the price they charge for their services will make it worth their while ^^

ArchivedUser

I am ok with that if players would deal with PK by themselve by making antiPK party and AntiPK guilds. I dont agree with rules made by the game to prevent PK.

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

I am ok with that if players would deal with PK by themselve by making antiPK party and AntiPK guilds. I dont agree with rules made by the game to prevent PK.

Every game has rules made by the developers for how THEY want THEIR game played.  Ever think of making your own game?   

ArchivedUser

There seems to be a little confusion about how the PvP flagging system works in Ashes. To help dispel any potential misunderstandings I've produced a diagram that describes the basic flagging mechanics.

Note that in order to be flagged as corrupt, you must kill an non-combatant. Simply attacking anyone will not flag you as corrupt. See the OP for more information

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33075/information-world-pvp/p1

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

No loot will be dropped. Beside some materials, that awful. It is enough to kill 1 green person to get permanent corrupt . And lose equipment. Welcome to Carealot, the carebears home land.

If you're after loot and PVP why wouldn't you go bounty hunter and hunt the corrupt? they would have a chance of losing items and you would be fighting someone who would likely have their guard up?

ArchivedUser

Orion87 said:

Eleanc said:

No loot will be dropped. Beside some materials, that awful. It is enough to kill 1 green person to get permanent corrupt . And lose equipment. Welcome to Carealot, the carebears home land.

If you're after loot and PVP why wouldn't you go bounty hunter and hunt the corrupt? they would have a chance of losing items and you would be fighting someone who would likely have their guard up?

Excatly or maybe focus to rob those caravans, which are full loot PvP events. I am actually myself interested of those. Ambushing caravans could be really fun activity actually.

ArchivedUser

Wraeven said:

My, this conversation appears to have gotten a bit heated. 

I really think people may be over-worrying here.

I remember the good old days in WOW when i would have my lvl 10 whutsit trouncing about in Goldshire, and I would just be minding my own business and suddenly i'd be dead because some lvl 70 fellow had decided to sit there and snipe newbies for a half hour, or until such time as we could call in our own lvl 70 to push him out.  

That is the kind of behavior i think we are trying to see discouraged with this pvp plan.

There will still be abundant opportunity for people to annihilate each other.

And there will be a means for people who are, frankly not prepared for pvp, to avoid being senselessly slaughtered every three minutes.   

The devs will work towards a balance.  It will be a balance that will piss some people off, but it will be a balance, nonetheless.. 

Haha, what an ass. I remember Mortal Online, it was an atrocious game. This one Guild would camp the new player area, farming them for hours on end. Killed the game eventually. I think that behaviour is quite silly myself but I hope the game is balanced in a way that even a level 1 may have a chance of taking down a level 10. Just like in ArcheAge. (Minus the Gear score.)

ArchivedUser

I re-direct the subject to the PVP battlegrounds.

While reading this discussion, i found that a big part of it is about the flagging system.
Not much about the other mechanisms composing the PVP within the game.

Particularly the Fortress. Different than Castle but a part of the PVP battlegrounds.
This Fortress are siegable Guild Halls, as described within kickstarter webpage (under FAQ).

So far, we only know that the Guild Halls (doesn't specify fortress or not) doesn’t exert dominance on the lands, not like Castle (live stream 2017.06.16).

I would like to know more about this mechanism, but couldn't find more. I may have miss some...
Now, i ask you if Intreprid Studios gave any information about this Fortress, such as:
- Where are they will be located ? (within nodes, specific area...)
- Which context will make a Fortress siegable, and for how long ? (guild war or other...)
- Whom will be able to participate to this mechanism? (everybody, guild, alliance)

Well, those questions are the main i have in head about Fortress for now.

ArchivedUser

Orion87 said:

Eleanc said:

No loot will be dropped. Beside some materials, that awful. It is enough to kill 1 green person to get permanent corrupt . And lose equipment. Welcome to Carealot, the carebears home land.

If you're after loot and PVP why wouldn't you go bounty hunter and hunt the corrupt? they would have a chance of losing items and you would be fighting someone who would likely have their guard up?

I would like too, but with such system , there will be 50 bounty hunters on 1 PK. I dont want to monitor the map for hours to spot 1 poor pk.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Excatly or maybe focus to rob those caravans, which are full loot PvP events. I am actually myself interested of those. Ambushing caravans could be really fun activity actually.

They are not full loot, only part of the the loot will be droped
based on the loot count. It is carebear.

ArchivedUser

Arakasis said:

Now, i ask you if Intreprid Studios gave any information about this Fortress, such as:
- Where are they will be located ? (within nodes, specific area...)
- Which context will make a Fortress siegable, and for how long ? (guild war or other...)
- Whom will be able to participate to this mechanism? (everybody, guild, alliance)

All we currently know about guild fortresses comes from the Kickstarter Q&A and a tiny bit of extra information from a livestream Q&A.

ArchivedUser

Eleanc said:

Ferryman said:

Excatly or maybe focus to rob those caravans, which are full loot PvP events. I am actually myself interested of those. Ambushing caravans could be really fun activity actually.

They are not full loot, only part of the the loot will be droped
based on the loot count. It is carebear.

Well to you everything seems to be just carebear.

Does anyone have more information about caravan fights looting rules/system?   

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Does anyone have more information about caravan fights looting rules/system?   

Pretty much everything we know is in the op.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33075/information-world-pvp/p1

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

Arakasis said:

Now, i ask you if Intreprid Studios gave any information about this Fortress, such as:
- Where are they will be located ? (within nodes, specific area...)
- Which context will make a Fortress siegable, and for how long ? (guild war or other...)
- Whom will be able to participate to this mechanism? (everybody, guild, alliance)

All we currently know about guild fortresses comes from the Kickstarter Q&A and a tiny bit of extra information from a livestream Q&A.

Thanks for the answer, hoping they will divulge more information regarding this soon!

ArchivedUser

If green player attacks red player he should get flagged purple as well.

Red players being unable to defend against attacks from green players without getting even more corruption is just silly.

So if i kill one green player (for any reason, lets say he is running around me and stealing my mobs just for fun and trolling me) and after I kill him I get red, I am supposed to just let all rest green attackers kill me to not get even more corruption (being red now)?

ArchivedUser

Annatar said:

Gothix said:

So if i kill one green player (for any reason, lets say he is running around me and stealing my mobs just for fun and trolling me) and after I kill him I get red, I am supposed to just let all rest green attackers kill me to not get even more corruption (being red now)?

Yes.  Or you could run away.

And this is why current mechanics make Ashes a "carebear game" and not really open PvP game.

These mechanics really need to be tweaked:

- when green player attacks red, he is also flagged purple
- no stat loss when killing equal levels (only for killing lower levels)

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

And this is why current mechanics make Ashes a "carebear game" and not really open PvP game.

These mechanics really need to be tweaked:

- when green player attacks red, he is also flagged purple
- no stat loss when killing equal levels (only for killing lower levels)

I feel like you are ignoring pvp zones and applying this system to BDO. Pvp zones ignore the flagging mechanic and can be in hunting grounds. It sounds like the best pve zones will probably ignore flagging. yea, you can't easily punish someone for stealing your boars but you can probably give them hell for attacking your dragons.

I don't think we will see another sausans.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Annatar said:

Gothix said:

So if i kill one green player (for any reason, lets say he is running around me and stealing my mobs just for fun and trolling me) and after I kill him I get red, I am supposed to just let all rest green attackers kill me to not get even more corruption (being red now)?

Yes.  Or you could run away.

And this is why current mechanics make Ashes a "carebear game" and not really open PvP game.

These mechanics really need to be tweaked:

- when green player attacks red, he is also flagged purple
- no stat loss when killing equal levels (only for killing lower levels)

Why green player should turn to purple if (s)he kills corrupted player?

I can tell you why not. Corrupted player is basically done a murder in Ashes ruleset. That player is a criminal with bounty of his head. That meens anyone can freely kill that corrupted player without suffering any penalties from that. Flagging green player to purple in this situation meens, that the corrupted criminal can now freely kill people who are after him. He has no right to murder free even he is attacked first because of his murderer status. This system can also be abused by corrupted player and his friends, where they can bait green players to attack, flag to purple and get killed without further penalties. Now when you add the no stat loss to this, we are in situation where ganking becomes easy and common griefing behaviour, where people are running with easily sustainable gear and ganking other players without serious consuequences. This is clearly not devs intend, because these changes would turn the OWPvP to ganking/murdering box. 

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

This system can also be abused

Absolutely anything can be abused if someone wants to abuse it.


To the point and my answer to you:

Anyone should be flagged when attacking anyone, except perhaps bounty hunters who hunt down red players with bounty, because they have licence and contract to do that.

If someone in real life kills someone, and he is now wanted criminal, you as bystander see him somewhere and kill him, you committed a criminal act yourself, regardless if that guy was wanted, and you become criminal yourself. This is because you do not have legitimacy given to you by the law to go after that killer.

This legitimacy in game is given to bounty hunter by accepting contract on target.

So TLDR:

Bounty hunters (WITH contract on target) should be the only ones who's color remains green when attacking red player who they have contract on.

Anyone else should flag purple when attacking red players, if they don't have bounty contract to do so.

ArchivedUser

Dude. Go on discord. Just my recommendation. Best.

ArchivedUser

Dude. Go to discord and stop spamming. Best.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Ferryman said:

This system can also be abused

Absolutely anything can be abused if someone wants to abuse it.


To the point and my answer to you:

Anyone should be flagged when attacking anyone, except perhaps bounty hunters who hunt down red players with bounty, because they have licence and contract to do that.

If someone in real life kills someone, and he is now wanted criminal, you as bystander see him somewhere and kill him, you committed a criminal act yourself, regardless if that guy was wanted, and you become criminal yourself. This is because you do not have legitimacy given to you by the law to go after that killer.

This legitimacy in game is given to bounty hunter by accepting contract on target.

So TLDR:

Bounty hunters (WITH contract on target) should be the only ones who's color remains green when attacking red player who they have contract on.

Anyone else should flag purple when attacking red players, if they don't have bounty contract to do so.

That is not true. Some systems can be abused (not all) and problem with your suggestion is that it encourages to do so.

Now you make a mistake there, when you are referring AoC murder system to our current time. You should go few hundred years backwards and think how things where back then. There was no protection for murderers or punishment for people to hunt them down.

Bounty hunter system just offers extra rewards top of normal loot system if you manage to kill corrupted player with bounty contract. 

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

You should go few hundred years backwards and think how things where back then.

Ashes are not placed in Earth history, so your argument is moot.

Ashes of Creation are set in completely new fantasy world.

Bounty system must have a point, and be integral to game mechanics regarding corruption. This is why you should need bounty contract to have legitimacy to attack a player.

If you do not have bounty contract, you are attacking illegitimately and should be flagged purple upon your attack.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Ferryman said:

You should go few hundred years backwards and think how things where back then.

Ashes are not placed in Earth history, so your argument is moot.

Ashes of Creation are set in completely new fantasy world.

Bounty system must have a point, and be integral to game mechanics regarding corruption. This is why you should need bounty contract to have legitimacy to attack a player.

If you do not have bounty contract, you are attacking illegitimately and should be flagged purple upon your attack.

My argument is moot, because Ashen is not based on earth, but yourself referred bountyhunter system to present time. LOL 

Usually fantasy world is its own world, but it also has lots of elements and rules from real world and especially from mediaval times. Also it should not be hard to see that world of Ashen is closer medieval than present time. Its basically mediaval mixed with high fantasy.

Bounty system will have meaning also in current system where it offers extra rewards from corrupted players head. Those rewards are not get without contracts. So there is point already and that part does not need change.

Now it just obvious, that you are trying to make suggestion only in mind to cater your personal playstyle, ganking non-combatant players. Your suggestion does not bring anything good to the game, it will just turn the ow to gankingbox what devs does not want their product be in any case. Its not good enough argument to say something should be that way if you cant give any reasonable justifications in exchange. 

ArchivedUser

Annatar said:

Gothix said:

Ferryman said:

You should go few hundred years backwards and think how things where back then.

If you do not have bounty contract, you are attacking illegitimately and should be flagged purple upon your attack.

That might be how you want things, but the system doesn't work like that.  

Personally, I can't wait to see Red players running from crowds of Purples and Greens.  It will be a laugh to watch.

Personally, I can't wait to see green players running from crowds of Purples and Greens.  It will be a laugh to watch.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Gothix said:

Ferryman said:

You should go few hundred years backwards and think how things where back then.

Ashes are not placed in Earth history, so your argument is moot.

Ashes of Creation are set in completely new fantasy world.

Bounty system must have a point, and be integral to game mechanics regarding corruption. This is why you should need bounty contract to have legitimacy to attack a player.

If you do not have bounty contract, you are attacking illegitimately and should be flagged purple upon your attack.

My argument is moot, because Ashen is not based on earth, but yourself referred bountyhunter system to present time. LOL 

Usually fantasy world is its own world, but it also has lots of elements and rules from real world and especially from mediaval times. Also it should not be hard to see that world of Ashen is closer medieval than present time. Its basically mediaval mixed with high fantasy.

Bounty system will have meaning also in current system where it offers extra rewards from corrupted players head. Those rewards are not get without contracts. So there is point already and that part does not need change.

Now it just obvious, that you are trying to make suggestion only in mind to cater your personal playstyle, ganking non-combatant players. Your suggestion does not bring anything good to the game, it will just turn the ow to gankingbox what devs does not want their product be in any case. Its not good enough argument to say something should be that way if you cant give any reasonable justifications in exchange. 

Dont make a drama out of open world PvP , if you cant fight with other players you may try offline games like witcher . 

ArchivedUser

Annatar said:

You want the Corruption system nerfed because it is too harsh for people who want to gank non-combatants.

No I want greens to grow a pair and actually play the game as it should be, and not play farmville v2.0.

I want PvP that relies on skill, free of mechanical restraints and artificial boundaries, such as stat degradation BS (I'm sorry but stat degradation is BS).

I want game to rely on real skilled bounty hunter society, and not have bounty hunter system equal to kids that race whoever will reach corrupted (0 stat) target on map and 2 shot him first and have glowing achieve on screen likethey accomplished something.

I want Ashes to be real immersive and dangerous world, and not a carebear laugh land where green players hold hands and pretend they are brave heroes because they farmed 1000 mats to craft their armor.

These things I want.

And no, I will not be either a griefer or lowbie ganker, as you assume.